Introducing WYNDHAM Club Pass

[GregT]

I agree with others that fundamentally, this is making the leftovers in each system available to owners of the other system, in trade for a $99 fee.

As a Worldmark owner (who likes some of the Wyndham properties), this new feature is interesting to me. The Worldmark owner still gets 4 month of unfettered access to the home properties, but as Phyllis has pointed out, has to compete with Wyndham owners 9 months for shorter stays -- but the best properties are going to be fully booked. I think throwaway days can still present an (expensive) solution if the Worldmark owner is willing to tolerate the extra HK token and wasted credits but it's better than nothing if a short stay is required.

The reality though is that the best properties in Worldmark are long gone by the time 9 months rolls around, and therefore they won't be available for that Wyndham trader or the Worldmark short stay.

It's been awhile since I had the Wyndham account, but I would suspect the same situation will exist for the properties that I am interested in (Waikiki Beach Walk, Bluebeard's Beach Club, Shearwater). I would think that those are also mostly gone between months 9-10 when all Club Wyndham owners have 1 month of unfettered access before the properties are opened up to Worldmark exchangers.

It's a very interesting strategy and creative of Wyndham to find a way to cross-pollinate the systems. It competes with Wyndham's own RCI exchange, so somehow they must feel it doesn't cannibalize a traditional RCI trade, and I suppose that it doesn't. It's also an effective marketing tool.

We will see what the final impact is, and I will watch to see if those properties I noted have any type of reasonable availability via exchange.

Best,

Greg

 

[ronparise]

Don't you consider yourself Worldmark owner, Ron? I've not seen you show much of the concern, or it would not have much heated debate in Club Wyndham Pass at all

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38789

http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326896#p326896

Johnvancouver is Worldmark BoD director John Henley. He stated point conversion ratio is WM 1:16.4 WVO in next post.

It is definitely a curious topic...

Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com"

I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)

 

[vacationhopeful]

Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com

I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)

And that is WHY I added Shell Vacation Club to my collection.

 

[benyu2010]

Im a Worldmark owner. I guess I should have said "some" Worldmark owners or "many of the folks on WMowners.com

I see this as a non issue for most folks. Most of us bought into the system we did, because we liked those resorts. If we wanted the other system, we would have bought it instead, or bought both. (I bought both)

Agree..it is largely non issue. Exchange at full credit with less flexibility and add-on fee is NOT permanent solution for regular visits. Buy what you use is the best...

Have you done the cost analysis between guest rental and Club Wyndham Pass based on 1:16.4?

 

[GregT]

Have you done the cost analysis between guest rental and Club Wyndham Pass based on 1:16.4?

The cost analysis will be interesting, but I like holding the reservation in my account because of the cancelation benefits. Per the documents in Ron's dropbox, it appears that an exchange can be canceled within 15 days of check-in at no penalty -- returning both the credits and the exchange fee. I will be surprised if that lasts (I would think the exchange fee would be lost) but still pretty generous.

It would be interesting to compare the cost versus a rental though.

Ron, if I wanted to rent something from you (Waikiki Beach Club) and it was a 231,000 point reservation, what would you charge? (Mods, this is a hypothetical, not an offer to rent)

For a Worldmark owner, it probably costs me 14,100 credits for that trade ($~$900 in MFs) plus a HK token (~$75) and the $99 exchange fee. So I am out $1,075 for the exchange.

Would be interesting to compare the pure costs -- the advantage to Club Wyndham Pass exchange program is the control/cancelation protection over the reservation. The advantage to renting from Ron is that I get the reservation 10 months out when availability is much stronger/more likely.

Best,

Greg

 

[ronparise]

The cost analysis will be interesting, but I like holding the reservation in my account because of the cancelation benefits. Per the documents in Ron's dropbox, it appears that an exchange can be canceled within 15 days of check-in at no penalty -- returning both the credits and the exchange fee. I will be surprised if that lasts (I would think the exchange fee would be lost) but still pretty generous.

It would be interesting to compare the cost versus a rental though.

Ron, if I wanted to rent something from you (Waikiki Beach Club) and it was a 231,000 point reservation, what would you charge? (Mods, this is a hypothetical, not an offer to rent)

For a Worldmark owner, it probably costs me 14,100 credits for that trade ($~$900 in MFs) plus a HK token (~$75) and the $99 exchange fee. So I am out $1,075 for the exchange.

Would be interesting to compare the pure costs -- the advantage to Club Wyndham Pass exchange program is the control/cancelation protection over the reservation. The advantage to renting from Ron is that I get the reservation 10 months out when availability is much stronger/more likely.

Best,

Greg

The way I do this thing is that I make a lot on some rentals, a little on others. I lose money on some and break even on the rest. What I charge for a rental depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on the market (and the state of my bank account.)

So I dont have a cast in concrete formula for my rentals. But here are my costs.

my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99.
So to your example 231 x 5 = 1155 +99 = $1254

but I have ways to save a little. as a platinum owner when we get within 60 days of check in I can get a 50% discount. I dont get it on everything I do, but I get it enough to lower my overall costs somewhat

Most folks I know that rent their Wyndham points will tell you that there is no profit for most reservations unless you are a Platinum owner.

So if you came to me and said "I can get this for $1075...can you beat it?" Id probably say yes. and Id consider using my Platinum benefits to lower my cost to something closer to $600

 

[benyu2010]

In another word, Club Wyndham Pass offers strong competition to owners direct rentals? Specifically between 9 months and 60 days. It probably beats everyone with lower cost, liberal cancellation policy and flexibility of short stay, plus benefited of official brand name. At least, that's my thought as a WM owner...

GregT's Worldmark cost is based on higher end of credit rental, it would be much lower if based on lower end of the range or MF excluding club fee.

BTW, WM credit would be worth much more than CWA based on 1:16.4 rate, in addition to its flexibilities.

 

[lcml11]

The way I do this thing is that I make a lot on some rentals, a little on others. I lose money on some and break even on the rest. What I charge for a rental depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on the market (and the state of my bank account.

So I dont have a cast in concrete formula for my rentals. But here are my costs.

my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99.
So to your example 231 x 5 = 1155 +99 = $1254

but I have ways to save a little. as a platinum owner when we get within 60 days of check in I can get a 50% discount. I dont get it on everything I do, but I get it enough to lower my overall costs somewhat

Most folks I know that rent their Wyndham points will tell you that there is no profit for most reservations unless you are a Platinum owner.

So if you came to me and said "I can get this for $1075...can you beat it?" Id probably say yes. and Id consider using my Platinum benefits to lower my cost to something closer to $600

All this proves is that for the next year or so, if you are a Worldmark Owner, renting the Wyndham Club Plus/Access resorts from a Platinum owner is a viable option over purchase into a different club until things settle out.

By the way, do not forget to ask the Platinum Owner about the free upgrade if the reservation is under 60 days.

Catch Ron on a bad day and maybe you could get the reservation for $600.05 cents. After all, you do need to leave something for profit.

 

[GregT]

But here are my costs.

my mf is right at $5/1000 points and a guest confirmation is $99.
So to your example 231 x 5 = 1155 +99 = $1254

Ron, that's very interesting and thank you for posting. The actual costs aren't that different between systems and perhaps that is how the 16.4 conversion ratio was derived. Benyu is correct in that I may be using WM mf costs that are higher than others because I only have a 10K package.

I will be curious to see how availability between the two systems is impacted and if there is any desirable properties with availability. The more I think about it, the more impressed I am with Wyndham's creativity here -- and don't view this as a competitor to RCI, but instead a way to monetize available inventory between the two systems.

I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user. I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.

Best,

Greg

 

[ronparise]

I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user. I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.

Best,

Greg

And thats the way its always been

The guy that knows how to use what he owns always does better than the guy that doesnt. . Club Pass may widen the satisfaction gap between the smart knowledgeable owners and the ones that dont take the time to learn the system but Wyndham is not responsible for their owners that remain uneducated.

 

[vacationhopeful]

It is also was way to EARN (GET) $99 as the exchange fee from the "FULL FRIEGHT" buyers. And by clearly stating "NO RENTALS" and no resale points, starts to put some meat into the Resale Owners are 2nd class.

Personally, it is no big deal for me ... I own where I go.

 

[markb53]

It is also was way to EARN (GET) $99 as the exchange fee from the "FULL FRIEGHT" buyers. And by clearly stating "NO RENTALS" and no resale points, starts to put some meat into the Resale Owners are 2nd class.

Personally, it is no big deal for me ... I own where I go.

I have both developer purchased and resale points in my account. It will be interesting to see how the Club Wyndham Pass deals with that. Will I be only able to use my developer purchased points to make a reservation?

 

[ronparise]

I have both developer purchased and resale points in my account. It will be interesting to see how the Club Wyndham Pass deals with that. Will I be only able to use my developer purchased points to make a reservation?

The disclosure document

Likewise, I own a very few developer purchased points in my Wyndham account; enough to make the account I think the disclosure document I posted spells things out clearly

WorldMark, The Club Credits: Class A and Class B Credits and roll-over Class A and B Credits, as defined in the TEN Program Summary, are eligible for all WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Class C Credits are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits. Class D Credits are eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits Credits if they are held by a Member who also holds eligible Class A or Class B Credits. Class E Credits are not eligible for either WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits or WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Please see the TEN Disclosure Summary for a full description of all Credit classifications.
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points: Points associated with a vacation ownership interest purchased directly from Wyndham or its affiliates, acquired from an Immediate Relative, or acquired from an authorized selling agent or reseller are eligible for both WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Points acquired from a third party not considered an Immediate Relative or not authorized by Wyndham are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits.

 

[CO skier]

... here come the "Universal Points" at Bonnett Creek (or wherever it was) posts, again.

 

[benyu2010]

I think this new system is punitive to the inattentive WM owner, which is unfortunate for that user. I think it is beneficial to the alert timeshare owner who is constantly evaluating their vacation alternatives.

Best,

Greg

Unfortunately, same theory applies to every concern of one's life...Actually, I believe Wyndham would push this program hard and educate every owner to monetize the program which is win-win...In the end, it's not rocket science, you open the chart with live inventory and click and book, just have to plan as early as possible...

 

[ronparise]

... here come the "Universal Points" at Bonnett Creek (or wherever it was) posts, again.

I wondered where he got that...thanks

 

[lcml11]

The disclosure document

Likewise, I own a very few developer purchased points in my Wyndham account; enough to make the account I think the disclosure document I posted spells things out clearly

WorldMark, The Club Credits: Class A and Class B Credits and roll-over Class A and B Credits, as defined in the TEN Program Summary, are eligible for all WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Class C Credits are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits. Class D Credits are eligible for WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits Credits if they are held by a Member who also holds eligible Class A or Class B Credits. Class E Credits are not eligible for either WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits or WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Please see the TEN Disclosure Summary for a full description of all Credit classifications.
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points: Points associated with a vacation ownership interest purchased directly from Wyndham or its affiliates, acquired from an Immediate Relative, or acquired from an authorized selling agent or reseller are eligible for both WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits and WYNDHAM Club Pass Exchange Benefits. Points acquired from a third party not considered an Immediate Relative or not authorized by Wyndham are only eligible to receive WYNDHAM Club Pass Universal Benefits.

Interesting, what happened to the inherited by will?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Interesting, what happened to the inherited by will?

Another VIP benefit that went away?

Doesn't matter to me ... I got my status with the good old green back.

 

[lcml11]

Another VIP benefit that went away?

Apparently so, and a major one at that. I checked the current Members Directory, on paper at least, the current on-line version still includes by will.

 

[ronparise]

Apparently so, and a major one at that. I checked the current Members Directory, on paper at least, the current on-line version still includes by will.

You are comparing apples to oranges


Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit. The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program

VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy

The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass, only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important

So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass

 

[Bigrob]

You are comparing apples to oranges


Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit. The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program

VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy

The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass, only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important

So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass

One of the members of the 100K Wyndham owner's list you bought, Ron? :hysterical:

 

[lcml11]

You are comparing apples to oranges


Club Wyndham pass is not a VIP benefit. The requirements to become VIP have nothing to do with this new program

VIP points passed to a new owner by operation of a will are still VIP points. I should be able to confirm that in a few weeks...Im getting an account from a dead guy

The criteria posted in this thread are the criteria for Club WYndham Pass.
VIP status is not required to use Club Wyndham Pass, only that the points have been purchased from Wyndham is important

So I suppose if you own points that qualify for Club Wyndham Pass, that benefit might die with you...Its certainly not a big loss of benefit for you. at least Id consider my loss of life a bigger deal than the loss of Club Wyndham Pass

I hope you are right, it is going to be just differences in the program or just a oversite for the Club Wyndham Pass program.

Use of the VIP Benifit discounts in the VIP Pass program is still a open question. Last I heard from Wyndham was yes they are usable but that was subject to change.

Not that sales would be right, but maybe some who is going to a presentation that is pitching Club Wyndham Pass can ask the question and post the response.

 

[ronparise]

One of the members of the 100K Wyndham owner's list you bought, Ron? :hysterical:

No. I havent figured out how, or even if Im going to use it

 

[DeeDibble]

Wyndham Fast Pass

I looked at the Worldmark page earlier and found a fewI would like to go to. If I want to pay an exchange fee to go to one of the Worldmark Resorts I would really like to know how many points it will cost me. Has anyone heard?

 

[Bigrob]

I looked at the Worldmark page earlier and found a fewI would like to go to. If I want to pay an exchange fee to go to one of the Worldmark Resorts I would really like to know how many points it will cost me. Has anyone heard?

I'd wager you'd find it would be more than it would be to rent from a Worldmark owner by the time you calculate the cost of the maintenance fees from the Wyndham points you'd use, plus the exchange fee. As has been said, it's not clear whether VIP discounts would apply (I would guess not since it's not Wyndham inventory). Some have suggested a ratio of 1:16.4 (a 10,000 Worldmark reservation would cost 164,000 Wyndham points) but I don't know if that's the final word. Ron included some documents that show it in the other direction, it's not too far an extrapolation to think the conversion would be similar going the other way.

If there are Worldmark locations that interest you, you might want to check out a Worldmark ownership. There seem to be a lot of happy Worldmark owners and the MF's are among the lowest of the points systems.