Introducing WYNDHAM Club Pass

[CO skier]

My main idea is to figure out the 55 resorts...

It's not "55 resorts," it's "more than 55 resorts."

Wyndham could open up 57 resorts in each system, or they could open 60 resorts in WorldMark and 100 resorts in Club Wyndham, or they could open up both systems in their entirety.

In the Club Wyndham system, Wyndham has the most control over the Club Wyndham Access inventory, so I agree with the idea that WorldMark owners will gain access to all the CWA resorts, and Wyndham owners will gain access to the WorldMark resorts that are not already shared resorts. Wyndham Club Pass is a Club-to-Club exchange. Wyndham hotels will have no part in this new program.

No one has speculated on the points/credits required for these exchanges. The current, limited exchanges between the systems come at a significant points/credits premium versus what owners in the respective systems can reserve the various resorts. The $99 exchange fee is just the beginning for Wyndham's profits. The points/credits premium is where more significant profits will be.

 

[CO skier]

Except, perhaps, for worry over losing features I already have?

As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event. My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI. I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.

It sounds like the new Pass might (just might) replace my affiliated booking process with a more expensive, possibly less flexible, exchange process. Oh well, timeshare giveth and timeshare taketh away, I suppose.

You could now just rent your Wyndham Pagosa reservation from an owner, and possibly pay less than what you were paying through Monday Madness.

 

[ronparise]

I keep getting caught up on the line...

"Essentially, it will give CLUB WYNDHAM owners seamless access to more than 55 Wyndham resorts, expanding your ability to travel to unique destinations across the country."

What are the 55 Wyndham Resorts? If they are not Club Wyndham or Worldmark (they got a similiar notice)?

I did a search on the Wyndham Resorts and got a hit on Wyndham hotels... they have a series of resorts that neither Club Wyndham or Worldmark can get access to directly with their points...

I agree this is probably a big non event as I don't think it will change what we have already but it would be great for their sales arm to be able to include some of the resorts in the Wyndham hotel chain...

My main idea is to figure out the 55 resorts...

If Club Wyndham and Worldmark owners (who presently can interchange) are both being promised 55 new resorts to exchange into, and Shell isn't included... where do the 55 resorts come from if not from the Wyndham hotel group?

Pete

I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa




"WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."


The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners

What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.

 

[PeterS]

I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa




"WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."


The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners

What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.

Thanks for posting the info from the Worldmark site.

This is more clear than the Wyndham notice.
Also I thought there was a much higher overlap in the two systems in the present inter-exchange. If there is truly 55 or more resorts in each system that are presently not shared, then this explains it.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[lcml11]

I think thats just a mistake. The wording on the Worldmark site makes it clear (to me anyway) that Worldmark owners will have access to Club Wyndham properties and vice versa




"WYNDHAM Club Pass, which is anticipated to launch next summer, is Wyndham Vacation Ownership's very own internal exchange program between WorldMark by Wyndham and CLUB WYNDHAM® resorts. Essentially, it gives WorldMark members the freedom to move outside of your home Club, expanding your access to unique destinations across the country."


The 55 Worldmark resorts were calculated in a post above. Worldmark has seventy some resorts in their system, and fifteen or so are already shared resorts having some Worldmark and some Wyndham units. The difference is we think fifty five that are uniquely Worldmark. . So 55 new vacation destinations for Club Wyndham owners

What 55 new resorts are going to be open to Worldmark owners? thats more difficult to figure, because there are more than 70 Club Wyndham resorts. But the numbers work out if you just consider the Club Wyndham Access resorts that are not shared with Worldmark. ... Thats my guess anyway.

After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points. I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.

 

[scootr5]

After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points. I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.

Unless of course they want to use those points for ARP. It should have little to no effect on availability.

 

[ronparise]

After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points. I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.

What do you see that I don't to cause that reaction, and why do you think your points will be any safer than not?

 

[alwysonvac]

I apologize if this was already stated....I'm still catching up on this news

Maybe I'm missing something but this doesn't seem fair...

Why is this active at the 9 month mark? That's the first time WorldMark owners can book less than a full week during red season. It's my understanding that Wyndam owners are able to reserve 3 and 4 night stays before the 9 month mark.

Shouldn't WorldMark owners have 1st priority to book WorldMark resorts for less than a full week in red season before the flood gates are opened up to Wyndham owners

 

[lcml11]

What do you see that I don't to cause that reaction, and why do you think your points will be any safer than not?

..

For my particular case, I primarily use points at Old Town Alexandria, National Harbor, Atlantic City, and Shawnee Village. My stays are typically Friday and Saturday nights. Availabilty for weekends that I might use took a nose dive this year and the unit upgrade to more bedrooms also took a dive. I believe this was do to the flooding of points into the system that resulted in the year usage changes. If this change is between Wyndham Club plus and Worldmark or both clubs and the hotel group, or between other Wyndham resorts that are not part of the two primary clubs identified and the two that are being discussed, then the net loser will be the VIP members with short term discounts as their primary usage.

Since things have changed for me, it is not really important that I use Wyndham next year. Maybe I am just a little over concerned that I had to pay full rate for the first time in many years for what used to be an easy resort to get in off season.

I could be very wrong about this and Worldmark may be the big loser.

PS do not go to Windows 8 unless you need to.

 

[ronparise]

..

For my particular case, I primarily use points at Old Town Alexandria, National Harbor, Atlantic City, and Shawnee Village. My stays are typically Friday and Saturday nights. Availabilty for weekends that I might use took a nose dive this year and the unit upgrade to more bedrooms also took a dive. I believe this was do to the flooding of points into the system that resulted in the year usage changes. If this change is between Wyndham Club plus and Worldmark or both clubs and the hotel group, or between other Wyndham resorts that are not part of the two primary clubs identified and the two that are being discussed, then the net loser will be the VIP members with short term discounts as their primary usage.

Since things have changed for me, it is not really important that I use Wyndham next year. Maybe I am just a little over concerned that I had to pay full rate for the first time in many years for what used to be an easy resort to get in off season.

I could be very wrong about this and Worldmark may be the big loser.

PS do not go to Windows 8 unless you need to.

If I understand the problem you see, its that availability will dry up because of the increased demand placed on the system by Worldmark owners, before you can get your 50% discount and upgrades.

It seems to me putting your points into the points credit pool wont solve the problem. It just gives you an opportunity to sit it out for a year or so until the novelty fades and things get back to normal

Read the post above.. A Worldmark owner is afraid availability in their system will dry up before they can make red season short stay reservations, because of the demand placed on the system by Wyndham owners.

I think you are both afraid for nothing. In your case the only availability at 60 days now is stuff most other Wyndham owners dont want anyway. The good stuff is sucked up early as it is. My feeling is that if Wyndham owners dont want it Worldmark owners wont either.. And when you consider most Worldmark owners live on the West coast. I just dont see much demand from them. None of the resorts you mentioned are within driving distance from the homes of most of the Worldmark owners.

And I dont think the Worldmark people have anything to fear either. Worst case they might have to get up early right at 9 months to make their short stay reservations and compete with the Wyndham folks. But the fact is that the good stuff will already be reserved as week long stays. before 9 months

I think we have to remember the conventional advice that If you cant plan ahead for your vacations, Timeshares may not be right for you. The more things change the more that advice stays the same.


And by the way...If I was writing this 6 months ago, Id agree with you re Windows 8. My old xp machine blew up and I bought a new lap...Its taking some getting used to but I hardly miss xp anymore....I felt the same way when I went from Windows 98 to XP too.

 

[CO skier]

After considering what was discussed in this thread and what little I could find from Wyndham releases and multiple conversations with Wyndham Corporate in relation to possable impact on availability for next year,, I went with credit pooling the vast majority of my Wyndham Vacation Resort points. I think it would be prudent for others to do the same.

Shouldn't WorldMark owners have 1st priority to book WorldMark resorts for less than a full week in red season before the flood gates are opened up to Wyndham owners

It seems there is an unreasonable fear of "outside" owners "flooding" the other's system. Think about it. WorldMark is a West Coast system; Wyndham is primarily an East Coast system. There are significant costs for a family just to travel between systems. Then there is the $99 exchange fee. Then there is the premium credits/points cost associated with the exchange. Where and when will this "flood" of exchanges be occurring?

Perhaps a very few WorldMark owners may want to exchange into Bonnett Creek in October, and some Wyndham owners want to exchange into West Yellowstone in October. Neither resort is particularly busy at this time. Using Las Vegas or Branson as additional examples, it will be considerably cheaper for any owners to stay within their system for these destinations than exchanging through Wyndham Club Pass. This will be the story throughout either system for this program.

With the facts that 1) the popular reservations in either system are booked up long before 9 months, 2) travel costs between the two systems add to the exchange, 3) costs for the internal exchange both in the $99 fee and credits/points, 4) exchanges are limited to developer only credits/points, so resale buyer cannot participate, it should be obvious that the participation rate from developer owners will be minimal -- not a "flood," not even a trickle, probably only a tinkle.

Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points. Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[CO skier]

As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event. My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI. I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.

Wouldn't it be interesting for WorldMark owners if Wyndham has so many developer credits that they need to cover, that all the new and current Wydham resorts appear at some point on Monday Madness?

There is nothing in the news release that indicates it can't happen.

Why is there always so much automatic negativity when it comes to Wyndham and WorldMark?

 

[benyu2010]

Why is there always so much automatic negativity when it comes to Wyndham and WorldMark?

Don't know...

I agreed with Ron's opinions on this whole upcoming inter-club exchange program for non-prime inventory. It's mostly a non-event and marginal benefits for developer-purchased credits/points ONLY. It is no different than RCI, II or other exchange programs owners currently utilizing. The best part is it is a free add-on perk for developer benefits without significant impact to the availability of the system. Remember, it is an exchange program, so it gotta be demand neutral. The overall pool of eligible owner is only a portion of overall ownership and possibility of utilizing such program is even much smaller.

The only big questions remain to be seen is its impact of availability for Wyndham VIP owners. This exchange program completely overlaps TEN, currently available to Worldmark owner. So, it won't be surprised to see change of availability of TEN and itself.

If you elect to exchange, there will be a minimal transaction fee of $99 per reservation.

In the Worldmark letter, it states MINIMAL is $99 per reservation...It will probably generate some nice fee-for-service revenue from developer purchased owners, with little impact to either program at all. Remember, only developer purchased pt/credit may participate, so most of us HERE shall neither see any benefit, nor any impact at all...Back to the quoted question, don't know...

 

[pacodemountainside]

WWW was "involved" with some 197 resorts at 12/31/2012

WVO .................. 79

WorldMart ............ 98

Shell.....................20

Total....................197


6 are shared with WorldMart.

New York, Chicago and Margaretville are coming on line in 2013 making big 200.

Desert Blue is scheduled for 2014.


Avon???


After that it pretty much looks like WAAMing

This appears to me like smoke and mirrors to increase Wyndham profits and discourage resales, not enhance one's ownership!

It is also interesting to note total WVO ownership remained about 523K from 2011 to 2012 indicating foreclosures, deed backs, etc ., about equaled additional sales.


Not a good sign when no net gain in customers/owners. Have to "milk" the olde ones.

WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP

Wyndham Vacation Ownership markets and sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its Club Wyndham brand. Club Wyndham markets and sells VOIs that entitle an owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year.

As of December 31, 2012, over 523,000 owners held interests in Club Wyndham resort properties which are located primarily in the U.S. and ****consisted of 79 resorts (six of which are shared with WorldMark by Wyndham) that represented approximately 13,500 units. ***********


WORLDMARK BY WYNDHAM


Wyndham Vacation Ownership also markets and sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific brands. WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific sell VOIs that entitle an owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year.

After Wyndham Vacation Ownership develops or acquires resorts, it conveys the resorts to WorldMark, The Club or WorldMark South Pacific Club, which we refer to collectively as the Clubs. In exchange for the conveyances, the WorldMark by Wyndham or Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific brands receive the exclusive rights to sell the vacation credits associated with the conveyed resorts and to receive the proceeds from the sales of the vacation credits. VOIs sold by WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific represent credits in the Clubs which entitles the owner of the credits to reserve units at the resorts that are owned and operated by the Clubs. Although vacation credits do not constitute deeded interests in real estate, vacation credits are regulated in most jurisdictions by the same agency that regulates VOIs evidenced by deeded interests in real estate. As of December 31, 2012, approximately 286,000 owners held vacation credits in the Clubs.



*********WorldMark by Wyndham had 98 resorts (six of which are shared with Club Wyndham Resorts) ********representing 7,600 units as of December 31, 2012 which are located primarily in the Western U.S., Canada, Mexico and the South Pacific. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific accounted for 24 resorts and approximately 1,000 units of WorldMark by Wyndham's resort total.

Owners of vacation credits can make reservations through the Clubs, or may elect to join and exchange their VOIs through Wyndham's vacation exchange business, RCI, or other third-party international exchange companies.

The resorts in which WorldMark by Wyndham markets and sells vacation credits are primarily drive-to resorts. The majority of WorldMark by Wyndham resorts are affiliated with Wyndham Worldwide's vacation exchange subsidiary, RCI. Of WorldMark by Wyndham's 98 resorts, 71% have been awarded designations of an RCI Gold Crown Resort winner or an RCI Silver Crown Resort winner.

SHELL VACATIONS CLUB

Wyndham Vacation Ownership has expanded its fee-for-service property management business with its acquisition of Shell Vacations Club during 2012. Wyndham Vacation Ownership has assumed the property management operations at ******20 Shell Vacations Club resorts***** representing 2,300 units as of December 31, 2012, which are primarily located in Hawaii, California, Arizona, Texas, Nevada, Oregon, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Canada.

Additionally, Shell Vacations Club sells VOIs and provides consumer financing to owners through its Shell Vacations Club brand. Shell Vacations Club sells VOIs that entitle and owner to resort accommodations that are not restricted to a particular week of the year. After Wyndham Vacation Ownership finishes development of a Shell resort, it conveys the resort to Shell Vacations Club. In exchange for the conveyances, the Shell Vacations Club brand receives the exclusive rights to sell the vacation points associated with the conveyed resort and to receive the proceeds from the sale of the vacation points. VOIs sold by Shell Vacations Club entitle the owner of the points the rights in various timeshare resorts developed by Shell Vacations through an internal exchange reservation system or, alternatively, exchange its points through external exchange programs or for other products and services offered by Shell Vacations Club. As of December 31, 2012, approximately 105,000 owners held vacation points in the Shell Vacations Club.

 

[timeos2]

Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points. Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Because Wyndham knows there is no real value to retail and they are doing all they can to simply confuse and depress the resale market so the uninformed think that somehow it makes sense to overpay for retail. In reality Wyndham retail is one of the worst values in timeshare while Wyndham resale Points are still one of the best values in timeshare ownership.

Don't be fooled. (and yes, avoid Windows 8)

 

[ronparise]

Because Wyndham knows there is no real value to retail and they are doing all they can to simply confuse and depress the resale market so the uninformed think that somehow it makes sense to overpay for retail. In reality Wyndham retail is one of the worst values in timeshare while Wyndham resale Points are still one of the best values in timeshare ownership.

Don't be fooled. (and yes, avoid Windows 8)

John

not that it makes any difference to you, since you dont own Wyndham any more and you have no plans to buy in. But for what its worth I dont see what Wyndham has done to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, nor can I think of anything that they can do to increase the value. short of becoming a buyer themselves.

I see their relationship with the secondary market as one of "benign neglect" They are not doing anything to increase the value and they are not doing anything to decrease the value. The secondary market is what it is without regard for what Wyndham does on the retail side. If anything, the higher they raise their prices, the better the resale stuff ought to look to a prospective buyer

I would compare it to the used car market. It doesnt matter what Ford is charging for a new SUV or what extras they are including with a purchase or what the financing terms are to me. My nearly 20 year old Ford Explorer is still worth nearly nothing on the secondary market. It doesnt matter that it provides excellent trouble free transportation for me.

I think what gives a timeshare value on the secondary market are the rents at comparable rental properties. If my mf is less than whats being charged for comparable rentals, then my timeshare has value. How much value depends on the spread. And Wyndham controls only one side of that equation

By the way, If Wyndham is doing everything to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, how do you explain the recent uptick in prices. Did Wyndham cause that to happen? I dont think so, and I dont think they do anything to bring priced down either.

Now if Wyndham would get proactive and start buying back and reselling their points they could set the price...but they arent doing that..... yet...

 

[timeos2]

John

not that it makes any difference to you, since you dont own Wyndham any more and you have no plans to buy in. But for what its worth I dont see what Wyndham has done to depress the value of their product on the secondary market, nor can I think of anything that they can do to increase the value. short of becoming a buyer themselves.

I see their relationship with the secondary market as one of "benign neglect" They are not doing anything to increase the value and they are not doing anything to decrease the value. The secondary market is what it is without regard for what Wyndham does on the retail side. If anything, the higher they raise their prices, the better the resale stuff ought to look to a prospective buyer

The damage they did, and I'm still amazed they were able to do it, was the years of pounding into buyers heads that somehow resale points weren't "as good" as retail ones. The plan fact that they had to be exactly the same and the only differences could be things sales funded and operated separate from the actual intrinsic points themselves, and which therefore could be dropped at any time and/or prohibited from transferring upon resale, also meant that the "value" you paid tens of thousands of dollars to obtain at retail was lost as soon as you had to sell. Your retail points were going to be worth the exact same <.01 point as any other resale point wold be. But you (the retail buyer not you Ron) paid $.10-.15 per point retail. The value of the subsidized perks is not likely to ever approach the cost paid.

They torpedoed the resale value even as they sold overpriced retail points - quite a feat! Of course they could at any time help the resale value by instituting buy backs at even greatly reduced value like $.03 per point - that would be a godsend to most owners - and they won't even do that. They purposely denigrate resale to hold value down and that is reason enough to never by a point at retail from that group.

What they did do is create one of the great values in all of timeshare if you stick strictly with resale points. The actual system they created is a very good one, they have some unique and extremely desirable locations and the annual fees while not the lowest are not bad among the "names" - it is only retail sales and overall customer service where they fall woefully short. You can more or less avoid those areas as an owner and have a great vacation system in the Wyndham Points system.

They have also flooded the market with so much inventory that combined with the retail perks (or even better grandfathered resale perks) high point owners such as you can actually afford to offer extremely good deals on rentals and still make money over the annual fees. Users can decide to own resale or just rent and either way get great value from Wyndham and enjoy some great resorts / locations on the cheap. It remains one of the great overall values in all of timeshare if you own resale or rent your use. We enjoyed our 20+ years as owners and are enjoying the new rental bonanza even more as ex-owners!

For all owners sake I actually hope that Wyndham wises up and decides to become active in resales. An increase in floor price supported by Wyndham could be a really great thing long term. I just got tired of waiting for them to act. I still think they will jump in at some point.

 

[Bigrob]

For all owners sake I actually hope that Wyndham wises up and decides to become active in resales. An increase in floor price supported by Wyndham could be a really great thing long term. I just got tired of waiting for them to act. I still think they will jump in at some point.

And if they DO... those who acted in advance will be sitting pretty. I suppose one could argue that their current offer of 20 cents on the dollar for all retail points they sell now that have "Pathways" attached could in future years make for a tighter resale market, if the floor of value is 20 percent. I guess it remains to be seen if Pathways ends up being more like useless or even damaging ROFR versus providing a true floor for current retail buyers.

I don't think you'll see anything more aggressive than what they've already done... offering OTPs and some converted fixed weeks via corporate direct. But I do think there is an opportunity to capture value through buyback programs and reselling (at a premium to resale)... I just think they view it as too cannibalistic. But who knows...

 

[rleigh]

Except, perhaps, for worry over losing features I already have?

As a WM owner, I've been enjoying reservations at Wyndham Pagosa for an annual event. My travel dates require a Thursday check-in with Monday departure -- easily booked through WM but not so easily booked through RCI. I've been fortunate these past two years to snag the reservation using WM Monday Madness, paying cash rates not spending WM credits.

It sounds like the new Pass might (just might) replace my affiliated booking process with a more expensive, possibly less flexible, exchange process. Oh well, timeshare giveth and timeshare taketh away, I suppose.

Are you talking about the Wydham resorts WM owners currently can access just as they would WM? Yes, that was my concern too.

But someone over at WMO said these were part of the TEN agreement and as long as you bought before 11/05/2006 or retail after that date, those are grandfathered in.

I would hate to have to pay an extra 99, might as well go through RCI or II. I know the specific TEN agreemnt resorts come and go but it's so nice having that option. I used the Arkansas one a few years ago and it's not available now, but it was so nice and helpful having that option!

It doesn't sound like very many WM owners have this same concern, but it's a pretty big deal to me! But as you said, they give, they take.

 

[rhonda]

Wouldn't it be interesting for WorldMark owners if Wyndham has so many developer credits that they need to cover, that all the new and current Wydham resorts appear at some point on Monday Madness?

There is nothing in the news release that indicates it can't happen.

Two particular aspects of the FAQs on the WM side give me reason to think that inventory offered through the new relationship won't appear as Monday Madness:

6. Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program? Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by using their developer purchased credits/points.

12. May I rent inventory that I booked through WYNDHAM Club Pass?
No. Inventory booked via WYNDHAM Club Pass cannot be rented.

Are you talking about the Wydham resorts WM owners currently can access just as they would WM? Yes, that was my concern too.

Yes, exactly.

 

[CO skier]

Two particular aspects of the FAQs on the WM side give me reason to think that inventory offered through the new relationship won't appear as Monday Madness:

6. Will there be guidelines when exchanging between an individual’s home Club and resorts in the WYNDHAM Club Pass program?

Yes. Owners who would like to make an exchange outside of their home Club may do so by using their developer purchased credits/points.

Isn't "using their developer purchased credits/points" the way the Affiliates work in WorldMark now; i.e., only TravelShare and WM+A credits (but not resale credits) can be used to reserve at Affiliates locations?

It is not clear why you think using developer credits would necessarily eliminate Pagosa Springs from any future Monday Madness. What is different in the new program versus the way things work today?

12. May I rent inventory that I booked through WYNDHAM Club Pass?

No. Inventory booked via WYNDHAM Club Pass cannot be rented.

Just as with II and RCI exchanges, exchanges in the Wyndham Club Pass cannot be rented to others. It is not clear why you think this would eliminate Pagosa Springs from any future Monday Madness.

WorldMark may continue the Affiliated Rental program at $0.15/credit with 18 resorts, or they may discontinue it, or it may be expanded to include the current 18 resorts plus the new Wyndham resorts in the program. Whatever occurs, it will have nothing to do with guideline #12.

 

[alwysonvac]

It seems there is an unreasonable fear of "outside" owners "flooding" the other's system. Think about it. WorldMark is a West Coast system; Wyndham is primarily an East Coast system. There are significant costs for a family just to travel between systems. Then there is the $99 exchange fee. Then there is the premium credits/points cost associated with the exchange. Where and when will this "flood" of exchanges be occurring?

I shouldn’t have used the word “flood”.
I simply believe owners should have priority access before non-owners.

Think about this… If WorldMark and Wyndham owners were only interested in traveling exclusively in the East or West there would be no need for these systems to offer other options such as RCI, Cruise Exchanges, and other travel options.

Yes, I agree that some families probably bought because they wanted something they can drive to (vs fly to). However I won’t assume all families are vacationing this way. I'm a WorldMark owner who lives on the East Coast and own a timeshare in California and Hawaii and I visit both. And the $99 exchange is still lower than RCI exchange fee that folks are paying today. Yes, there will be a premium credits/point cost associated with the exchange but we don’t see that stopping WM folks from booking the higher point WorldMark resorts like Anaheim.

Perhaps a very few WorldMark owners may want to exchange into Bonnett Creek in October, and some Wyndham owners want to exchange into West Yellowstone in October. Neither resort is particularly busy at this time. Using Las Vegas or Branson as additional examples, it will be considerably cheaper for any owners to stay within their system for these destinations than exchanging through Wyndham Club Pass. This will be the story throughout either system for this program.

My comment was specifically concerning red season. I agree with you that for overlapping destinations most folks will probably book within their system unless there are unique or better resort features/amenties with the other system.

With the facts that 1) the popular reservations in either system are booked up long before 9 months, 2) travel costs between the two systems add to the exchange, 3) costs for the internal exchange both in the $99 fee and credits/points, 4) exchanges are limited to developer only credits/points, so resale buyer cannot participate, it should be obvious that the participation rate from developer owners will be minimal -- not a "flood," not even a trickle, probably only a tinkle.

Wyndham Club Pass is just a marketing ploy for the sales departments in either system to sell developer credits/points. Despite all the fanfare, the advantage for (developer only) owners in either system is minimal to non-existent. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Yes, place like West Yellowstone will be booked up long before but not all popular reservations fall into this category. Anaheim is an example where I won’t mind adding a couple of nights at the end or beginning of my week stay somewhere else in CA. I just don’t want more competition.

And some folks actually like trying something new/different. Every resale started off as a developer purchase. Is there some type of statistics indcating over 75% of the current owners at Wyndham and WorldMark are resale owners which would suggest a "tinkle"?

 

[ronparise]

I just don’t want more competition.......

Every resale started off as a developer purchase. Is there some type of statistics indcating over 75% of the current owners at Wyndham and WorldMark are resale owners which would suggest a "tinkle"?

I think what you are missing is that there cannot be any Wyndham owners competing with you for a Worldmark reservation, unless there is a Worldmark owner competing with me for a Wyndham reservation...its an exchange program, remember? There may be a different group of people that you have to compete with, but there will be the same number of people competing.

What difference does it make if Joe Worldmark wants the same reservation as you do, or Jane Wyndham.? .either way you have competition

Regarding the ratio of resale to retail owners, I agree that every resale point was originally purchased directly from Wyndham, but its also important to understand every retail point will ultimately be sold to a resale buyer. I dont know the numbers, but Id be willing to bet that there are more sales made on ebay every day than in the Wyndham sales rooms. 25/75 seems about right to me...but its just a guess

 

[cotraveller]

At this point it is all speculation. Until the details of the program are announced everything is just a guess at how it will work. From my view onthe WorldMark side some questions that will be of interest are:

• Will this new program replace the current Exchange Network (TEN) which allows cross booking between the two systems?
• Will WorldMark owners who purchased before November, 2006 be grandfathered in as they are now, or will it be available only to owners who purchased from the developer no matter when they purchased?
• Will partial week bookings be allowed as they are now or will it be full weeks only?
• Will Bonus Time be available under the new program as it is now under the current Exchange Network?
• Will Wyndham resorts appear on the WorldMark Monday Madness Specials?
• Where will the initial inventory come from before any exchanges are made?
• More I'm sure but that's enough for now

We will know by next June when the program goes live. Until then we can only guess.

 

[sparty]

At this point it is all speculation. Until the details of the program are announced everything is just a guess at how it will work. From my view onthe WorldMark side some questions that will be of interest are:

• Will this new program replace the current Exchange Network (TEN) which allows cross booking between the two systems?
• Will WorldMark owners who purchased before November, 2006 be grandfathered in as they are now, or will it be available only to owners who purchased from the developer no matter when they purchased?
• Will partial week bookings be allowed as they are now or will it be full weeks only?
• Will Bonus Time be available under the new program as it is now under the current Exchange Network?
• Will Wyndham resorts appear on the WorldMark Monday Madness Specials?
• Where will the initial inventory come from before any exchanges are made?
• More I'm sure but that's enough for now

We will know by next June when the program goes live. Until then we can only guess.

To me it seems it's going full circle. Marriott copied the TRUST concept from Wyndham/Worldmark and now Wyndham/Worldmark is copying Marriott's legacy DC exhange program.

Based on this I would expect a grandfather clause similar to Marriott's June 2010 clause. Wyndham/Worldmark can make a lot of money off grandfather enrollment fees just like Marriott.

If Marriott and Wyndham get too much closer maybe they will merge