Introducing HGV Max — Our New Membership Program (Official announcement from HGVC)

[dayooper]

He didn't provide more details and I didn't have good questions to ask. Others going to a sales meetings soon should quiz them and report back. The key thing that I heard was that deeded owners would be able to use the system as is, which included him, but, at some point when the system is rolled out, it would be points only for new owners. He said deeds are too expensive and challenging to manage.

I guess I should also include that I trust absolutely nothing of what salesman say.

 

[HuskerATL]

Sure, but just because he was from Marriott doesn’t mean they are going points. I’m not saying they aren’t going points, but if they are, it’s sure a long way in the distance.

It is a she, the new Chief Innovation Officer actually I just looked it up and her title is Senior Vice President of Strategy and Innovation, Caterina Rovati and she was at Marriott International before HGVC, but you are right. He did sound pretty confident about it though. Like it wasn't an if.

 

[HuskerATL]

I guess I should also include that I trust absolutely nothing of what salesman say.

That is fair. I listen with an open mind and question things that sound outlandish or peak my interest. Like the Legacy Search Request being 10 months out for booking. I asked him many different ways about it and he kept saying that it would be 10 months out so we will see.

 

[dioxide45]

I am sure some people jump around to different companies in the industry now and then. Just because someone went from MVC to HGV doesn't necessarily mean HGV would be moving to a pure point system. I haven't been able to find any indication in the Orange County records of a HGV trust being setup, but it is possible they are setting it up elsewhere or I am not searching the correct keywords. We haven't seen any indications from top executives at HGV of a pure points trust based system. I know some investors have asked about it on investor calls and it seems to get shot down each time.

 

[dayooper]

It is a she, the new Chief Innovation Officer actually I just looked it up and her title is Senior Vice President of Strategy and Innovation, Caterina Rovati and she was at Marriott International before HGVC, but you are right. He did sound pretty confident about it though. Like it wasn't an if.

Sounding confident when making a statement is an important tactic when closing deals. It’s what they are trained to do. I buy my vehicles from a family member and trust him completely. I still notice the salesman things he says to make me feel better about my purchase. He knows it’s a done deal but it’s just how they are trained. Being in the business for 19 years, your salesman has to be good. Most timeshare sales people don’t last very long.

I think they are absolutely looking into it. There is too many units lost from last year in Ocean Enclave (330-110) to think otherwise. I have just seen that what salesman say can as fact are based on what whispers they hear from someone up the chain a little higher. How many new resort rumors have been spread by salesman and turned out to be either completely false or true but didn’t pan out. Getting you to buy now puts you in Max with the insinuation that you will be grandfathered in to the new points system with all of the new resorts is the hook.

My mistake on the new person at corporate. I should have known better to assume.

 

[HuskerATL]

I am sure some people jump around to different companies in the industry now and then. Just because someone went from MVC to HGV doesn't necessarily mean HGV would be moving to a pure point system. I haven't been able to find any indication in the Orange County records of a HGV trust being setup, but it is possible they are setting it up elsewhere or I am not searching the correct keywords. We haven't seen any indications from top executives at HGV of a pure points trust based system. I know some investors have asked about it on investor calls and it seems to get shot down each time.

Very true about people moving around but just passing on what he said because it was the first that I had heard that.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@dioxide45 Aren't DRI clubpoints and Embarc pure point systems? Perhaps trusts are already set up and they will leverage one of these.

 

[dayooper]

@dioxide45 Aren't DRI clubpoints and Embarc pure point systems? Perhaps trusts are already set up and they will leverage one of these.

I though about that as well, but that’s why I wanted someone who knew trusts better. Would they have to change the language in the trusts to change how they are used?

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 Aren't DRI clubpoints and Embarc pure point systems? Perhaps trusts are already set up and they will leverage one of these.

They are pure points trust and quite possible. But then it makes things messy. Resale DRI Collection owners can now access inventory in those trusts. If they put new resorts in those trusts, those same resale DRI collection owners can access. They can't segregate in the trust like they can an Exchange Company membership. I don't think they really would want that to happen. If they were to create something like this out of HGV Max, I would look to see a new trust created.

 

[dayooper]

Thanks @dioxide45

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@dioxide45 what do they do with deeded MVC that enroll? They are not in a trust yet they work with the DP trust inventory. Perhaps HGV will work similarly to this scenario?

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

According to the sales rep that I talked to last week, they are moving to a complete point system, like Marriott, but the deeded folks would still get to use the system as is. Also, that the new Chief Innovation Officer, which is a new position, came from Marriott.

The question in the Marriott system is priority, and it always has been. Both the Trust and the deeded weeks get the same access at the same time. So who wins the ties? Or let me phrase it this way. In the old weeks system, deeded weeks got first crack at inventory, and the leftovers got sold as rental. Example - 100 intervals, 75 owned by weeks, and 25 unsold. 75 owners got to choose from 100 weeks, rental got the rest. Under the Marriott points system, 25 weeks (the unsold ones) went into the trust, and 75 people got to choose from only 75 intervals. In this scenario, it is less likely that you would get the week you want at your deeded timeshare (which is what you are paying for). There is NO priority to get a particular week over the trust. Both are booking at the same time. (That is what I am saying when I say that there is no home week for deeded weeks at Marriott.

With current HGVC, there is a primary window for the deeded week owners to book their deeded weeks, exclusive from all other HGVC members. Will that still be true in a pure points system? If not, you get back into the Marriott situation, with you trying to grab inventory 2 seconds after the booking window opens, no matter how much you are paying in MFs., in competition with the trust, who gets what they want faster than any deeded owner.

 

[SmithOp]

With the current system, once you hit 9 months points and deeds are the same with HGV. These 6 month windows they are documenting for Max are irrelevant for my use, 80% of my reservations have been at 9 months. I rarely look for leftovers inside 6 months. So this new program may only affect the people that plan short term stays.

FWIW Max has no value for me as a resale owner, or a long term planner.

All this talk about trust points and deeds is premature. The product we have is mixed deeds and points at 9 months, a deeded owner can still book their home week if it's available and a member can book with club points. People with lower MFpp get better deals now, that shouldn't change. My understanding of trust points is they all pay the same blended per point fees - another reason Max does not appeal to me. Maybe some of the DRI point owners pay less since DRI has collections of properties, but overall I think they pay more per point that HGV owners. I won't be buying any resale DRI points or deeds.

Here is what I have heard for properties that will be rebranded asap, it will be interesting to see when / if they show available to book by us deplorable resale owners.

The Ridge at Sedona
Powhatan
Maui and Kauai properties
Cabo Azul.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk

 

[NiteMaire]

He said deeds are too expensive and challenging to manage.

My gut tells me it has more to do with being able to charge more for the buy-in as well as MF. Just look at MVC and DRI. Deeded weeks have lower MFs than pure points. This is one of the main reasons, I don't own any points. Sure I lose flexibility, but we've been able to get to all the locations we desire to vacation. The other main reason is that I can get 2 vacations with a LO unit where the points would net me one.

@dioxide45 Aren't DRI clubpoints and Embarc pure point systems? Perhaps trusts are already set up and they will leverage one of these.

They are pure points trust and quite possible. But then it makes things messy. Resale DRI Collection owners can now access inventory in those trusts. If they put new resorts in those trusts, those same resale DRI collection owners can access. They can't segregate in the trust like they can an Exchange Company membership. I don't think they really would want that to happen. If they were to create something like this out of HGV Max, I would look to see a new trust created.

This is one of the factors leading me to believe DeX has the edge for being the exchange system used for Max. I may be wrong, but that's my take.
ETA: DeX is an exchange system capable of providing access to inventory in different collections. While at a different level, providing access to inventory from different Clubs seems to be something DeX should be able to handle. After all, it doesn't matter which Club you're coming from, just that you gain access to the common inventory. Even if it's not branded DeX, I think DeX will be the core/backend.

Here is what I have heard for properties that will be rebranded asap, it will be interesting to see when / if they show available to book by us deplorable resale owners.

The Ridge at Sedona
Powhatan
Maui and Kauai properties
Cabo Azul.

Sedona Summit is slated to be rebranded later this month. The estimated date slipped a few times, but it's looking favorable that this timeframe will stick. It's already on the Hilton site as Coming Soon with the ability to book April 27 and beyond. However, that's the hotel side. I presume there's some more backend systems integration to do to allow for exchanges/reservations on the timeshare side.

 

[HuskerATL]

With the current system, once you hit 9 months points and deeds are the same with HGV. These 6 month windows they are documenting for Max are irrelevant for my use, 80% of my reservations have been at 9 months. I rarely look for leftovers inside 6 months. So this new program may only affect the people that plan short term stays.

FWIW Max has no value for me as a resale owner, or a long term planner.

All this talk about trust points and deeds is premature. The product we have is mixed deeds and points at 9 months, a deeded owner can still book their home week if it's available and a member can book with club points. People with lower MFpp get better deals now, that shouldn't change. My understanding of trust points is they all pay the same blended per point fees - another reason Max does not appeal to me. Maybe some of the DRI point owners pay less since DRI has collections of properties, but overall I think they pay more per point that HGV owners. I won't be buying any resale DRI points or deeds.

Here is what I have heard for properties that will be rebranded asap, it will be interesting to see when / if they show available to book by us deplorable resale owners.

The Ridge at Sedona
Powhatan
Maui and Kauai properties
Cabo Azul.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk

There is a SanDestin coming online also. That is appealing to us ATL folks. The screen that the rep showed me said June 2022.

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 what do they do with deeded MVC that enroll? They are not in a trust yet they work with the DP trust inventory. Perhaps HGV will work similarly to this scenario?

Enrolled Marriott weeks work through the MVC Exchange Company to be able to trade for trust inventory. Much like II, a weeks owner deposits their week and gets back points. They can then use those points to exchange for other inventory in the MVC Exchange Company. The MVC Exchange Company can be comprised of inventory from the trust and other enrolled owners that deposited their weeks into MVC Exchange.

I am sure that HGVC 9 month reservations are similar. At 9 months you can make a reservation at another resort and other people can book the week you own. Similar will likely happen at six months with HGV Max.

 

[dayooper]

There is a SanDestin coming online also. That is appealing to us ATL folks. The screen that the rep showed me said June 2022.

SanDestin is an Embarc resort and even corporate doesn’t know what to do with them. In the FAQ, they said they were unsure on how to deal with Embarc resorts. I’m just guessing, but my thought is that it’s not coming online anytime soon unless the entire Embarc system comes online. The only other DRI property close to there is Gulf Shores and I have heard nothing on that place.

Your salesman was very good. Too good. There’s a reason he’s been in the business for 19 years.

 

[brp]

The Ridge at Sedona
Powhatan
Maui and Kauai properties
Cabo Azul.

Is the implication here that these will be rebranded into the HGV family so that HGV-only folks (even us resale peons) should be able to book these without a separate DRI contract?

Cheers

 

[dayooper]

Is the implication here that these will be rebranded into the HGV family so that HGV-only folks (even us resale peons) should be able to book these without a separate DRI contract?

Cheers

No, I read it as these will be the first DRI properties available to HGV Max members.

 

[HuskerATL]

SanDestin is an Embarc resort and even corporate doesn’t know what to do with them. In the FAQ, they said they were unsure on how to deal with Embarc resorts. I’m just guessing, but my thought is that it’s not coming online anytime soon unless the entire Embarc system comes online. The only other DRI property close to there is Gulf Shores and I have heard nothing on that place.

Your salesman was very good. Too good. There’s a reason he’s been in the business for 19 years.

The internal website he showed us had pictures of all the current properties and then others with diagonal banners across them saying June 2022. He clicked on a couple of them and one was in Cabo but not Cabo Azul. I forget the name but it was nice. Then there was also the SanDestin. That caught our attention but we will see what comes available this summer.

 

[dayooper]

The internal website he showed us had pictures of all the current properties and then others with diagonal banners across them saying June 2022. He clicked on a couple of them and one was in Cabo but not Cabo Azul. I forget the name but it was nice. Then there was also the SanDestin. That caught our attention but we will see what comes available this summer.

I hope it does come online for HGV Max members along with the Embarc resorts in Mexico and California. I’m just going by what was said in the FAQ that was sent out this week.

 

[GT75]

I hope it does come online for HGV Max members along with the Embarc resorts in Mexico and California.

No, I want those to come directly into HGVC.

 

[johnnyrocket237]

Nope. Not without another retail purchase. . .

This is correct... I recently attended a "membership update."
First, I was told that open season was going away for "resale owners." (Which I still think is BS... because unlike HH point conversion, Rule book, even after2022 max update, does not say that benefit is subject to change. maybe we won't have access to Diamond open season, and they are using confusion to pressure people.)

They said that normally I will need to "legitimatize" my timeshare by upgrading it, and then pay the $7,000 HGVMax fee... but only today I can simply upgrade. She said I would receive a $120,000 buy-back credit for my one-bedroom ocean premier Grand Islander, but would need to upgrade to something $50,000 more expensive. Essentially, swap out to a new deed for an extra $50k to become a "legitimate" owner to get access to HGVMax.
She also said Hilton never negotiates even one cent on price, so $120,000 property will never sell for$119,999.99, and so forth. For a while, she dangled a $15,000 upgrade to a two-bedroom, which is still crazy, because essentially I'd be paying an extra $15,000 for just 2,000 extra club points (old system; 3200 new system), but would have access to Max... but she called whoever and they declined because it's a minimum $50,000 upgrade. Think she only lowered it because I was ready to walk out, so she kept me there for extra 3 hours and then went back to a $50,000 upgrade, which is beyond ridiculous.

I really don't like how they treat us like "second-class citizens." Other than not having eee elite status, that's the only difference, other than now we cannot enter HGVMax. I think they're trying to use this to pressure us into "upgrading" at crazy prices.

Here's a question: Why can't we just buy into a Diamond property on the resale market and access that inventory that way? If someone is owner of DGI + HGVC, will those somehow be combined eventually into one account? Or will you basically have to always pay separate club dues?

 

[1Kflyerguy]

During the original press conference announcing the merger, the HGV leadership said this merger would allow them to roll out a trust much faster than creating their own trust, shaving a a few years off the process. I was sort expecting the HGVMAX product to be a trust, but so far there is no real indication they are going that route.

I think main goal with a trust is the ability to smaller incremental sales. with deeded weeks you can't sell less than a week. With a pure trust you sell people a points in small chucks..

 

[NiteMaire]

No, I want those to come directly into HGVC.

HGV will have to figure out how to integrate; for some reason, DRI couldn't do it. I don't know if it was technical, legal, or some other reason.
FWIW, I see an extremely limited number of Embarc units in DeX, and all of them are studios. If I recall correctly, they were all within the next few months.