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Increasingly disappointed long term owner

ljmiii

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There may be several Westin/Sheraton locations that Marriott doesn't have that added value that way to some owners...
For us there were three that we always wanted to visit - The Westin St John, the Cabo San Lucas resorts, and Harborside Atlantis.

We loved the WSJ so much we bought there, we're looking forward to Cabo next year, and our kids have (thankfully) outgrown their desire to go to Atlantis.
 

vikingsholm

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For us there were three that we always wanted to visit - The Westin St John, the Cabo San Lucas resorts, and Harborside Atlantis.

We loved the WSJ so much we bought there, we're looking forward to Cabo next year, and our kids have (thankfully) outgrown their desire to go to Atlantis.
Glad it worked for you, and others too I'm sure.

Those are places I'd have little interest in going to though.
 

Dean

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For us there were three that we always wanted to visit - The Westin St John, the Cabo San Lucas resorts, and Harborside Atlantis.

We loved the WSJ so much we bought there, we're looking forward to Cabo next year, and our kids have (thankfully) outgrown their desire to go to Atlantis.
For us personally Vistana and Westin add no locations that are desirable. We aren't going to do a water taxi, have no interest in Atlantis unless going to a conference where my company would be paying and likely won't return to MX but if we do it's an easy exchange to a boatload of great options. Thus from our point of view the only thing we get out of it is volume. Not that additional options in great locations like Maui aren't helpful, it's just that the additional competition and additional options are a wash at best.
 

dioxide45

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and likely won't return to MX but if we do it's an easy exchange to a boatload of great options.
The problem with Cancun is it really lacks good non AI options. Even in the Riviera Maya the options are very limited now that Vidanta has jacked up the resort fees. There aren't a boatload of options in the Yucatan. Cabo has many other options. The good thing though, Vistana resorts in Mexico are farily easy exchanges as long as you are okay with a 1BR or a studio.
 

Dean

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The problem with Cancun is it really lacks good non AI options. Even in the Riviera Maya the options are very limited now that Vidanta has jacked up the resort fees. There aren't a boatload of options in the Yucatan. Cabo has many other options. The good thing though, Vistana resorts in Mexico are farily easy exchanges as long as you are okay with a 1BR or a studio.
We really have no desire to go back to MX but if we did it would be Cabo. We've been to Cancun, Cabo and Nuevo Vallarta, and feel we're done but our favorite of all of those was Cabo staying in San Jose del Cabo
 

dioxide45

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We really have no desire to go back to MX but if we did it would be Cabo. We've been to Cancun, Cabo and Nuevo Vallarta, and feel we're done but our favorite of all of those was Cabo staying in San Jose del Cabo
I would also add that Vistana resorts in both Scottsdale/Phoenix and Palm Desert are superior to the Marriott properties. Certainly this is subjective. I think the added Vistana resorts in Maui are also a big lift. For us it is more than just additional dots on the map but rather better resorts in some of the same locations. I always like more choices.
 

Dean

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I would also add that Vistana resorts in both Scottsdale/Phoenix and Palm Desert are superior to the Marriott properties. Certainly this is subjective. I think the added Vistana resorts in Maui are also a big lift. For us it is more than just additional dots on the map but rather better resorts in some of the same locations. I always like more choices.
That's why I stated that they add volume without location but it does come with the cost of additional competition for the options I do want. For me personally it's a wash AT BEST and likely more problems than benefits.
 

rickandcindy23

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We had a choice between buying Westin and Marriott resale on Maui. We chose Westin. Stayed at both, preferred Westin. The studios have a really usable kitchen, and the washer/dryer in every unit make for a comfortable stay. The studio units are tight, but we put some of our luggage in the car to make room.
 

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I would also add that Vistana resorts in both Scottsdale/Phoenix and Palm Desert are superior to the Marriott properties. Certainly this is subjective. I think the added Vistana resorts in Maui are also a big lift. For us it is more than just additional dots on the map but rather better resorts in some of the same locations. I always like more choices.
Still all US and MX centric, there's a big world out there with great resorts and excellent quality, shame Sheraton and Westin brings nothing but competition for club points booking for those who have been booking those resorts.
 

dioxide45

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Still all US and MX centric, there's a big world out there with great resorts and excellent quality, shame Sheraton and Westin brings nothing but competition for club points booking for those who have been booking those resorts.
It doesn't bring any copetition from us. We won't be using Club Points from our Vistana ownerships to book Marriott resorts. That said, I do kindof agree but if you talk to sales reps at Vistana properties, the story is much different. All about how it is going to be so much harder for us to use our StarOptions because all the Marriott people wanting to stay at Kierland and other fantastic Westin properties!
 

Ken555

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It doesn't bring any copetition from us. We won't be using Club Points from our Vistana ownerships to book Marriott resorts.

Exactly. I only visit Marriott timeshare via II exchanges using my SDO weeks, which have no Abound or Club points, or renting via II getaways.

Many of us Vistana owners dislike what Marriott has done to our resorts, including the reduction of service and the confusing customer service (just see the recent threads on how to change guest namesā€¦ it's simply absurd).
 

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It doesn't bring any copetition from us. We won't be using Club Points from our Vistana ownerships to book Marriott resorts. That said, I do kindof agree but if you talk to sales reps at Vistana properties, the story is much different. All about how it is going to be so much harder for us to use our StarOptions because all the Marriott people wanting to stay at Kierland and other fantastic Westin properties!
Ha yes each perspective is right.šŸ˜œ
Adding 200k users to the MVC destations Club, Many of whom have high points per week has the opportunity to increase pressure on the already constrained non-US availability, while adding no additional locations outside of US and MX.
Its Trust Points owners I feel for.
Westin properties are only fantastic if you want to go where they are, which is very limited.
 

ljmiii

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For us personally Vistana and Westin add no locations that are desirable. We aren't going to do a water taxi...
I don't wish to impune your choices (nor the choices of those who purchase the WSJ water taxi) but there is no reason to take the WSJ water taxi to St John. The car barge is a great option for those who want a comparatively inexpensive 4x4 on St John and the subsidized ferries from Red Hook and Charlotte Amalie to Cruz Bay are a steal. Where else can you get an hour+ long sightseeing cruise with beautiful coastline and water views for $3.50-$13?!?
 
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ljmiii

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The studio units are tight, but we put some of our luggage in the car to make room.
That's...Brilliant! I usually book 1BRs because my love and I have different sleep schedules...but it had never occurred to me to stash our luggage in our car.
 

ljmiii

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Anywhere in Asia
I haven't had the pleasure outside of Japan. And while I've loved our visits, 'inexpensive' has never entered the lexicon for pretty much any activity. Aside from the ramen shops...where 'comparatively inexpensive' for the quality of ingredients and attention to detail was definitely part of the experience.
 

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I haven't had the pleasure outside of Japan. And while I've loved our visits, 'inexpensive' has never entered the lexicon for pretty much any activity. Aside from the ramen shops...where 'comparatively inexpensive' for the quality of ingredients and attention to detail was definitely part of the experience.
Indeed Japan is notorious for being expensive, unlike many other Asian countries, and we have excellent MVC properties to explore there. šŸ„³
 

Dean

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I don't wish to impune your choices (nor the choices of those who purchase the WSJ water taxi) but there is no reason to take the WSJ water taxi to St John. The car barge is a great option for those who want a comparatively inexpensive 4x4 on St John and the subsidized ferries from Red Hook and Charlotte Amalie to Cruz Bay are a steal. Where else can you get an hour+ long sightseeing cruise with beautiful coastline and water views for $3.50-$13?!?
No worries, it's motion sickness that is the issue thus I don't think we'd be comfortable taking the chance. We might do OK, esp if we take meclizine, but we'd hate to have such an issue so we'll pass. It does sound like an amazing area and resort though and it's the only destination for Westin that I see that adds benefit. As has been mentioned, some of the resorts add volume for nice resorts and for some, nicer resorts than the MVC options. I've stayed at Westins on Maui and several Vistana options. We tend to be kitchen oriented as well which does detract slightly for some of them.

I strongly suspect the flow of demand will be more toward MVC than the reverse when you look across Vistana/Sheraton/Westin, but who knows. And I don't see it as a big enough deal to matter as I know the system and will be an early bird for anything I want/need.
 

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haven't had the pleasure outside of Japan. And while I've loved our visits, 'inexpensive' has never entered the lexicon
When was the last time you were there? Since 1995:
US CPI prices have doubled (slightly more than, I think)
Japan CPI prices are flat
# of J-yen in a US$ is up 50%.
The math is pretty easy to see how prices have moved for people spending US$s.
fred.stlouisfed.org can explain all
 

dioxide45

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Ha yes each perspective is right.šŸ˜œ
Adding 200k users to the MVC destations Club, Many of whom have high points per week has the opportunity to increase pressure on the already constrained non-US availability, while adding no additional locations outside of US and MX.
Its Trust Points owners I feel for.
Westin properties are only fantastic if you want to go where they are, which is very limited.
But aren't those owners brining their own inventory along with them in order to play in the system? In order for a Vistana owner to reserve something in Abound, they have to pony up what they own. So in the end the inventory balances out. MVC has added Costa Rica and Bali locations outside the US with an additional location coming to Thailand. They do need more Caribbean locations IMO.
 

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But aren't those owners brining their own inventory along with them in order to play in the system? In order for a Vistana owner to reserve something in Abound, they have to pony up what they own. So in the end the inventory balances out. MVC has added Costa Rica and Bali locations outside the US with an additional location coming to Thailand. They do need more Caribbean locations IMO.
Indeed they do, as I said, it brings more US/MX inventory to Trust points owners, and some of the Sheraton and Westin owners can deposit one week and get a boat load of club points that can enable them to book more than one week at a non-US location, even in mid to high season.
It only balances if the demand matches the supply, the Trust inventory has always been a problem for that, and has only been made worse by the addition of so many more potential users. Providing balance for the additional non-US demand relies on enrolled owners of non-US properties being more motivated to elect as the result of the change, I just can't see the value proposition for them to do that. It would be interesting to know if Auz, Bali and Thailand owners based in APAC are motivated to go to the added Hawaii resorts. I can't see much drive for those based in Europe.
Value for those using Trust points have not improved, they can no longer use them in II to go to Sheraton and Westin resorts they have greater competition for using them outside the US in Abound, and they get the maint fee hits of more low season US inventory fed into the Trust.
 

Dean

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But aren't those owners brining their own inventory along with them in order to play in the system? In order for a Vistana owner to reserve something in Abound, they have to pony up what they own. So in the end the inventory balances out. MVC has added Costa Rica and Bali locations outside the US with an additional location coming to Thailand. They do need more Caribbean locations IMO.
Almost every single points user has some type of planned usage and that planned usage will not be balanced across all resorts or weeks. The variation in points cost will account for this somewhat but not completely. Therefore adding significant inventory has the potential of adding to this problem. In a pure points system this is actually more controllable to a large degree (but not completely) but in this hybrid model I suspect it's a much larger problem as it's likely the lower demand times that will end up in the mix (I'm not taking points on my HH Plat weeks). For example, you're more likely to get added MB or Orlando inventory than HI inventory added. This issue existed before the merger but it's likely to be even worse in the expanded model. By nature a points system evens out inventory in the end as those with points will either have to use them somewhere or lose them. This also has the possibility of affecting inventory on the weeks side because of the control method that MVC uses to determine what weeks within a season at a given resort are book using points at 13 months out.

I'm not complaining, just stating the way I see this. Added inventory for areas I like to visit can be a good thing but there are also potential negatives. There may be nuanced negatives for those owners as well that I am unaware of as well, I suspect there are for owners at some of the higher demand resorts.
 

Dean

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Let me add an analogy using DVC. Every time a new resort comes online, it has the potential to add options and demand. Ultimately how much a new resort affects the balance is determined by the number of points involved and the relative demand of the resort compared to the AVERAGE across the system. That's why Saratoga Springs gets talked about so much in this vein. It's a larger resort with a lot of points and comparatively low demand consistently, the lowest in the system overall. That's also why it shows up in II so much as well. The difference for DVC compared to Abound is that there is the home resort protection with DVC but no such animal with MVC Abound. It's a free for ALL at 13 & 12 months with MVC for the available units. If MVC used a different method for unit determination within a season, such as the actual week owned or an equal % across all weeks, it'd be more complicated on MVC's end but it would spread out the availability and demand somewhat within a given season.
 

pedro47

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Does anyone remember how nicely the original furniture were in Grand Ocean, Grand Vista, the Manor Club, OceanWatch, Surf watch, just to name a few resorts compared to the present furniture after updating?
 
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