Increasingly disappointed long term owner

[Bodie]

Sorry in advance if this is a little long. I wanted to provide some background for feedback and discussion.

We own 3 deeded weeks (all platinum, 2 Myrtle Beach, 1 Aruba surf) and 4,000 vacation club points.

The weeks have always worked well, mostly, and continue to. We either use or rent those out on redweek with 100% success rate.

I have found since vacation club has grown that our preferred check-in day with the 13-month window seems sold out instantly when inventory opens. I suspect (can't prove) that bulk diversions to points are somehow causing this. I also find unit preferences (high floor, particular buildings, etc) are much harder to get, being told there is some magic rotation and maybe next year. In the first 10-15 years of weeks ownership, I got the desired check-in day almost every year and we were always satisfied with unit location. In the last 5 or so years, the opposite is always, and I mean always, the case. Early on we traded weeks or lock-offs a couple of times. Since then, we rent weeks were are not using through RedWeek. That works well, though Marriott is also trying to make that more difficult it seems.

Vacation club points are the main disappointment. We purchased points about five years ago to incorporate some excluded resale units and thought the flexible schedule options would be nice (short stays, longer stays, etc). We managed a few trips in the first couple of years (HI-Maui twice, Newport Beach once).

In more recent years, I have been unable to find much interesting or appealing, or much of anything. Newport Beach is always available; we enjoyed it, but we are not really interested in regular visits. Maui was very nice, but we are on the East Coast and won't do that often (for that much travel, we prefer Europe or Asia, where we go, but not with MVC much). We've used it for pulse locations (DC) twice (nice place, but not a great points use).

My regular searches basically show no inventory all the time unless I go deep, deep into the off-season. We are pretty flexible, but not interested in the very off-season inventory for the same reason it is available. I've looked at the specialized trips and cruises, etc. All of these seem to inefficiently convert your maintenance payment into surplus/discount inventory markets. Every single cruise I found (about 5 or 6 tested) was much more attractive when searching discount cruise sites directly. I didn't see any lift above maintenance fees (I think all the cruises were available for less than the points pro-rata maintenance fees), let alone a premium for having joined the program.

I wouldn't even consider turning a week into points now (and never did that). I can't see any reasonable added flexibility to our existing ownership. While good weeks clearly have more utility than than their maintenance fees, I don't see this with points, let along any premium for the up-front membership.

Does anything see this improving? Could I be doing something wrong? Do I need a different search/request approach?
I'm trying to understand whether this is a post-COVID inventory problem or vast overselling and oversubscription of the points system.

For decades, I was a strong advocate for Marriott and encouraged a few people I know to buy (resale platinum weeks thankfully). Now, I just tell anyone who will asks to simply rent what you want through a service like Redweek with their verified reserve-through-redweek option. I met a family in Aruba earlier this year that had the impression points were as easy to use as booking a hotel, even with the constraints of a young child. They were contemplating a loan. I was embarrassed to even be at a Marriott property after hearing how they were trying to mislead these people.

This is increasingly annoying and disappointing for me, but not a hardship. We like to travel a lot and are quite flexible, but at least the points are turning into a dead end. We are still generally happy with the weeks, but the points seem like a scam at this point (I think we paid 35K-40K). I don't mean a weak product; I mean a scam in the full sense.

Is there a realistic way to get valuable usage from these points or is there some aspect of usage that I'm missing?

All feedback or follow-up questions welcome

Thanks in advance,
D

Sorry in advance if this is a little long. I wanted to provide some background for feedback and discussion.

We own 3 deeded weeks (all platinum, 2 Myrtle Beach, 1 Aruba surf) and 4,000 vacation club points.

The weeks have always worked well, mostly, and continue to. We either use or rent those out on redweek with 100% success rate.

I have found since vacation club has grown that our preferred check-in day with the 13-month window seems sold out instantly when inventory opens. I suspect (can't prove) that bulk diversions to points are somehow causing this. I also find unit preferences (high floor, particular buildings, etc) are much harder to get, being told there is some magic rotation and maybe next year. In the first 10-15 years of weeks ownership, I got the desired check-in day almost every year and we were always satisfied with unit location. In the last 5 or so years, the opposite is always, and I mean always, the case. Early on we traded weeks or lock-offs a couple of times. Since then, we rent weeks were are not using through RedWeek. That works well, though Marriott is also trying to make that more difficult it seems.

Vacation club points are the main disappointment. We purchased points about five years ago to incorporate some excluded resale units and thought the flexible schedule options would be nice (short stays, longer stays, etc). We managed a few trips in the first couple of years (HI-Maui twice, Newport Beach once).

In more recent years, I have been unable to find much interesting or appealing, or much of anything. Newport Beach is always available; we enjoyed it, but we are not really interested in regular visits. Maui was very nice, but we are on the East Coast and won't do that often (for that much travel, we prefer Europe or Asia, where we go, but not with MVC much). We've used it for pulse locations (DC) twice (nice place, but not a great points use).

My regular searches basically show no inventory all the time unless I go deep, deep into the off-season. We are pretty flexible, but not interested in the very off-season inventory for the same reason it is available. I've looked at the specialized trips and cruises, etc. All of these seem to inefficiently convert your maintenance payment into surplus/discount inventory markets. Every single cruise I found (about 5 or 6 tested) was much more attractive when searching discount cruise sites directly. I didn't see any lift above maintenance fees (I think all the cruises were available for less than the points pro-rata maintenance fees), let alone a premium for having joined the program.

I wouldn't even consider turning a week into points now (and never did that). I can't see any reasonable added flexibility to our existing ownership. While good weeks clearly have more utility than than their maintenance fees, I don't see this with points, let along any premium for the up-front membership.

Does anything see this improving? Could I be doing something wrong? Do I need a different search/request approach?

I'm trying to understand whether this is a post-COVID inventory problem or vast overselling and oversubscription of the points system.

For decades, I was a strong advocate for Marriott and encouraged a few people I know to buy (resale platinum weeks thankfully). Now, I just tell anyone who will asks to simply rent what you want through a service like Redweek with their verified reserve-through-redweek option. I met a family in Aruba earlier this year that had the impression points were as easy to use as booking a hotel, even with the constraints of a young child. They were contemplating a loan. I was embarrassed to even be at a Marriott property after hearing how they were trying to mislead these people.

This is increasingly annoying and disappointing for me, but not a hardship. We like to travel a lot and are quite flexible, but at least the points are turning into a dead end. We are still generally happy with the weeks, but the points seem like a scam at this point (I think we paid 35K-40K). I don't mean a weak product; I mean a scam in the full sense.

Is there a realistic way to get valuable usage from these points or is there some aspect of usage that I'm missing?

All feedback or follow-up questions welcome

Thanks in advance,
Dan

Seems like there aren't enough high quality properties in interesting places and too many people vying for those that are listed. How many VCs do we need in South Carolina or Florida? MVC model doesn't seem to reflect a more modern definition of "family" which has changed. Baby Boomers - we aren't dead, yet - have very different ideas of vacations than Millennial or GenX. The company is stale and moribund. I bought 20 years ago but would not do so, today.

 

[ecassidy6]

With whom at Marriott Vacation Club should these concerns be addressed?

 

[Wanderlustgrl]

It’s definitely not what it once was! We used to go back to Orlando every year when our kids were young. 12-15 years in a row and then they grew up and got tired of it! Our deed weeks still work well! We book concurrent weeks 13 months out and have traded with II several times. We get the best value since we don’t pay exchange fees or lock off fees.

We have had good luck with our points but we are flexible. Using the points discount last minute was a big plus that helps justify the ever increasing maintenance fee. While I agree with telling people you come across to just rent, and we have rented our a time or 2 I think it’s a double edge sword. Cause then we can’t get in cause it encourages more owners to book and rent.

I’ll never give up the weeks as I think that’s our best value

 

[WBP]

I believe the "weeks resorts," the ones that are governed by their own HOA's, should demand, through their HOA Boards, an accounting of the owner-controlled "weeks" inventory, by their manager, MVC. It would be very intereting to see what MVC is really up to.

One thing that we don't know, is what % of "weeks" MVC owns at "weeks resorts." I believe that accounting should be disclosed to the HOA Board, and HOA members, by MVC. It could be that MVC's "Revenue Management (e.g. Revenue YIELD Management) is doing their dirty work with weeks under MVC's control, which they are entitled to do.

Further, remember that for the naive owner who converts their weeks to Marriott Bonvoy points, MVC then earns control of their week, and is free to do with that week, what they want.

 

[jpd88]

Sorry in advance if this is a little long. I wanted to provide some background for feedback and discussion.

We own 3 deeded weeks (all platinum, 2 Myrtle Beach, 1 Aruba surf) and 4,000 vacation club points.

The weeks have always worked well, mostly, and continue to. We either use or rent those out on redweek with 100% success rate.

I have found since vacation club has grown that our preferred check-in day with the 13-month window seems sold out instantly when inventory opens. I suspect (can't prove) that bulk diversions to points are somehow causing this. I also find unit preferences (high floor, particular buildings, etc) are much harder to get, being told there is some magic rotation and maybe next year. In the first 10-15 years of weeks ownership, I got the desired check-in day almost every year and we were always satisfied with unit location. In the last 5 or so years, the opposite is always, and I mean always, the case. Early on we traded weeks or lock-offs a couple of times. Since then, we rent weeks were are not using through RedWeek. That works well, though Marriott is also trying to make that more difficult it seems.

Vacation club points are the main disappointment. We purchased points about five years ago to incorporate some excluded resale units and thought the flexible schedule options would be nice (short stays, longer stays, etc). We managed a few trips in the first couple of years (HI-Maui twice, Newport Beach once).

In more recent years, I have been unable to find much interesting or appealing, or much of anything. Newport Beach is always available; we enjoyed it, but we are not really interested in regular visits. Maui was very nice, but we are on the East Coast and won't do that often (for that much travel, we prefer Europe or Asia, where we go, but not with MVC much). We've used it for pulse locations (DC) twice (nice place, but not a great points use).

My regular searches basically show no inventory all the time unless I go deep, deep into the off-season. We are pretty flexible, but not interested in the very off-season inventory for the same reason it is available. I've looked at the specialized trips and cruises, etc. All of these seem to inefficiently convert your maintenance payment into surplus/discount inventory markets. Every single cruise I found (about 5 or 6 tested) was much more attractive when searching discount cruise sites directly. I didn't see any lift above maintenance fees (I think all the cruises were available for less than the points pro-rata maintenance fees), let alone a premium for having joined the program.

I wouldn't even consider turning a week into points now (and never did that). I can't see any reasonable added flexibility to our existing ownership. While good weeks clearly have more utility than than their maintenance fees, I don't see this with points, let along any premium for the up-front membership.

Does anything see this improving? Could I be doing something wrong? Do I need a different search/request approach?

I'm trying to understand whether this is a post-COVID inventory problem or vast overselling and oversubscription of the points system.

For decades, I was a strong advocate for Marriott and encouraged a few people I know to buy (resale platinum weeks thankfully). Now, I just tell anyone who will asks to simply rent what you want through a service like Redweek with their verified reserve-through-redweek option. I met a family in Aruba earlier this year that had the impression points were as easy to use as booking a hotel, even with the constraints of a young child. They were contemplating a loan. I was embarrassed to even be at a Marriott property after hearing how they were trying to mislead these people.

This is increasingly annoying and disappointing for me, but not a hardship. We like to travel a lot and are quite flexible, but at least the points are turning into a dead end. We are still generally happy with the weeks, but the points seem like a scam at this point (I think we paid 35K-40K). I don't mean a weak product; I mean a scam in the full sense.

Is there a realistic way to get valuable usage from these points or is there some aspect of usage that I'm missing?

All feedback or follow-up questions welcome

Thanks in advance,
Dan

I very rarely post or reply, but your lengthy post hit home. I've been a Marriott devotee since my military days in the 80s. Marriott treated service members exceptionally well. We bought Maui Ocean Club in the late 90s and until about 2010 were always happy with visiting almost every year. Not so anymore. Every disappointing characteristic that you make in your post rings true as we've experienced them all. I don't have a clue why Marriott changed, but I suspect the reason is management change and dollar emphasis.

 

[bazzap]

I believe the "weeks resorts," the ones that are governed by their own HOA's, should demand, through their HOA Boards, an accounting of the owner-controlled "weeks" inventory, by their manager, MVC. It would be very intereting to see what MVC is really up to.

One thing that we don't know, is what % of "weeks" MVC owns at "weeks resorts." I believe that accounting should be disclosed to the HOA Board, and HOA members, by MVC. It could be that MVC's "Revenue Management (e.g. Revenue YIELD Management) is doing their dirty work with weeks under MVC's control, which they are entitled to do.

Further, remember that for the naive owner who converts their weeks to Marriott Bonvoy points, MVC then earns control of their week, and is free to do with that week, what they want.

This information is shared for some International resorts, e.g. Phuket (albeit revocations and delinquencies for weeks are all conveyed into the Asia Pacific Points programme) and Majorca where this information has been provided.

 

[Lansdowne]

I suspect the fraction of MVC owners who trade via II is 1% or less (maybe more use it for getaways). I'm relatively knowledgeable and haven't used II for about 10 years - it worked for me then, but I didn't like the way it works. And MVC hasn't been pushing it since they launched the DC system in 2010.

There are still some "good deals" in MVC whether via II, weeks or points. That's not the issue. The issue is that those deals as just not as good as they were 15, 10 or 5 years ago when you factor in the MFs. As an example - NCV MFs around 2010 were around $850 and the Redweek rental cost was about $2500 (about 200% more). MFs today are $1900+ and the rental cost is about $3500 (only 85% more). So while MFs have increased by 125%, rental costs have only gone up by 40% over that same period, in part because so many owners are all trying to rent out their weeks to offset the MFs. How long until the MFs are as high as the rental cost?

And do people want to hang on to their ownership until those "good deals" are truly exhausted, the ownership is truly worthless, and they need one of those exit companies that advertise on SiriusXM all day to get rid of what they own?

I don't think ownership is truly worthless but has lost value in places where you can rent for the equivalent of your MFs. If you are in one of those situations then maybe getting rid of your timeshare makes sense. Keep in mind that you will probably not be renting a place where you might have similar conveniences and amenities and where there are hidden fees attached. Then again there are places - like Maui where you cannot come close to renting a similar property for what you pay in MFs.

 

[Lansdowne]

Sorry in advance if this is a little long. I wanted to provide some background for feedback and discussion.

We own 3 deeded weeks (all platinum, 2 Myrtle Beach, 1 Aruba surf) and 4,000 vacation club points.

The weeks have always worked well, mostly, and continue to. We either use or rent those out on redweek with 100% success rate.

I have found since vacation club has grown that our preferred check-in day with the 13-month window seems sold out instantly when inventory opens. I suspect (can't prove) that bulk diversions to points are somehow causing this. I also find unit preferences (high floor, particular buildings, etc) are much harder to get, being told there is some magic rotation and maybe next year. In the first 10-15 years of weeks ownership, I got the desired check-in day almost every year and we were always satisfied with unit location. In the last 5 or so years, the opposite is always, and I mean always, the case. Early on we traded weeks or lock-offs a couple of times. Since then, we rent weeks were are not using through RedWeek. That works well, though Marriott is also trying to make that more difficult it seems.

Vacation club points are the main disappointment. We purchased points about five years ago to incorporate some excluded resale units and thought the flexible schedule options would be nice (short stays, longer stays, etc). We managed a few trips in the first couple of years (HI-Maui twice, Newport Beach once).

In more recent years, I have been unable to find much interesting or appealing, or much of anything. Newport Beach is always available; we enjoyed it, but we are not really interested in regular visits. Maui was very nice, but we are on the East Coast and won't do that often (for that much travel, we prefer Europe or Asia, where we go, but not with MVC much). We've used it for pulse locations (DC) twice (nice place, but not a great points use).

My regular searches basically show no inventory all the time unless I go deep, deep into the off-season. We are pretty flexible, but not interested in the very off-season inventory for the same reason it is available. I've looked at the specialized trips and cruises, etc. All of these seem to inefficiently convert your maintenance payment into surplus/discount inventory markets. Every single cruise I found (about 5 or 6 tested) was much more attractive when searching discount cruise sites directly. I didn't see any lift above maintenance fees (I think all the cruises were available for less than the points pro-rata maintenance fees), let alone a premium for having joined the program.

I wouldn't even consider turning a week into points now (and never did that). I can't see any reasonable added flexibility to our existing ownership. While good weeks clearly have more utility than than their maintenance fees, I don't see this with points, let along any premium for the up-front membership.

Does anything see this improving? Could I be doing something wrong? Do I need a different search/request approach?

I'm trying to understand whether this is a post-COVID inventory problem or vast overselling and oversubscription of the points system.

For decades, I was a strong advocate for Marriott and encouraged a few people I know to buy (resale platinum weeks thankfully). Now, I just tell anyone who will asks to simply rent what you want through a service like Redweek with their verified reserve-through-redweek option. I met a family in Aruba earlier this year that had the impression points were as easy to use as booking a hotel, even with the constraints of a young child. They were contemplating a loan. I was embarrassed to even be at a Marriott property after hearing how they were trying to mislead these people.

This is increasingly annoying and disappointing for me, but not a hardship. We like to travel a lot and are quite flexible, but at least the points are turning into a dead end. We are still generally happy with the weeks, but the points seem like a scam at this point (I think we paid 35K-40K). I don't mean a weak product; I mean a scam in the full sense.

Is there a realistic way to get valuable usage from these points or is there some aspect of usage that I'm missing?

All feedback or follow-up questions welcome

Thanks in advance,
Dan

Getting value from your ownership is almost a full time job. I am fortunate my wife is very analytical and is very good at getting value from our ownership. We owned both Vistana and Marriott properties. We owned Marriott first then purchased Vistana properties because we didn't care for Marriott's customer service and support system - that was about 20 years ago. With Marriott's acquisition of Vistana - not a merger as most folks believe - things changed. In my opinion Marriott was overwhelmed in the transition and with the timing of Covid they wound up playing catchup both in personnel changes and in technology needs. The recent impact of inflation, labor costs and changes in insurance rates and taxes have hit hard. Reserve requirements have also hit hard in areas near the Ocean. We own points and deeded properties in both systems. Frankly if we could convert 2 of our Marriott properties to just points without buying more points we would do so in a heart beat. We convert them to points every year anyway but we worry that those MFs may go up more that those for strictly points.

For a longtime anyone could buy a timeshare based on how much they were willing to spend for a given location. Or you could buy in a point system based on how much vacation time you expected to use. Same applies today but I think you have to be more financially fluid to deal with the increases in MFs that are sure to come. You actually can acquire points more cheaply in the secondary market and convert them at a fee giving you some flexibility. Buying properties on the secondary market for the most part has more restrictions. Back in the day we made the decision that we wanted a place where we could escape to and looked at a second home. We quickly realized it was expensive to buy a second home in acquisition costs and in maintenance costs. we saw timeshares as a valid alternative.

I believe that the timeshare industry is going thru a major change. It has become very complicated and competitive to book properties. a simple thing like being able to work remotely, I am sure have made a big impact. In the olden days w you would travel on a Tuesday and be alone at the airport - not any more. You are now competing with someone who can go to Hawaii for 2-3 weeks and work remotely and then take a week of vacation in Tahoe during Ski season.

Thank you for your post you have raised many issue for thought.

 

[craigc]

Going back to the OP’s comments about the difficulty in getting the reservations they want, for whatever reason, we have yet to experience that same disappointment. We have owned MVC Points and resale weeks since 2014 and have yet to be unable to get what we want. Granted, we have never wanted, or needed, to book summer vacation, Christmas, or spring break. Our usage has been Hawaii in the Jan-Mar time frame (using both weeks and Points) and a few other Points destinations in the spring or fall (Palm Desert, Newport Coast, Ocean Pointe, Marco Island, and prior to buying a whole condo there, Hilton Head).

I was expecting difficulty and frustration trying to book Aruba for winter 2025 since there is no Trust ownership there, but as it turned out, searching right at 12 month release, I easily grabbed the second week of March at Aruba Ocean Club, which was our first choice week.

I can’t completely explain why our experience has been so much more positive than others report, but we’ve yet to be frustrated trying to use MVC.

I agree. While we have owned for 20+ yrs, the past 7 years have been where we have traveled the most. Our points have taken us to Frenchmans 2x, Marbella, Son Antem, Los Suenos 3x, Ritz Vail, Marco, Aruba Surf, Breckenridge/Vail (lost count how many times), Desert Springs 4x, Kauai 2x, Big Island 3x , Maui 2x, South Beach 4x, Westin Los Cabos, Westin Lagunamar to name a few. Is it perfect, nope but we still get what we want. Sure sometimes we have to check multiple times but that is not the norm.

And I know people will disagree with me but, we prefer pts over weeks all day long. If I want to go to Breck for 3 nights of skiing, no prob. Frenchmans for 10 days, no prob, Desert springs for 4 nights at Indian Well Tennis, no problem. We almost NEVER go for 7 days so the flexibility of point makes this work for us. We just drove up to Vail for a couple of nights last weekend to get out of the heat of Denver......2 nights last minute with 30% discount was all we needed.

I do wish I had found this group earlier as my cost to buy in would have been cheaper but I have put that behind me. Looking forward to 6+ week at MVC locations in '25.

 

[TonyAvitia]

Sorry in advance if this is a little long. I wanted to provide some background for feedback and discussion.

We own 3 deeded weeks (all platinum, 2 Myrtle Beach, 1 Aruba surf) and 4,000 vacation club points.

The weeks have always worked well, mostly, and continue to. We either use or rent those out on redweek with 100% success rate.

I have found since vacation club has grown that our preferred check-in day with the 13-month window seems sold out instantly when inventory opens. I suspect (can't prove) that bulk diversions to points are somehow causing this. I also find unit preferences (high floor, particular buildings, etc) are much harder to get, being told there is some magic rotation and maybe next year. In the first 10-15 years of weeks ownership, I got the desired check-in day almost every year and we were always satisfied with unit location. In the last 5 or so years, the opposite is always, and I mean always, the case. Early on we traded weeks or lock-offs a couple of times. Since then, we rent weeks were are not using through RedWeek. That works well, though Marriott is also trying to make that more difficult it seems.

Vacation club points are the main disappointment. We purchased points about five years ago to incorporate some excluded resale units and thought the flexible schedule options would be nice (short stays, longer stays, etc). We managed a few trips in the first couple of years (HI-Maui twice, Newport Beach once).

In more recent years, I have been unable to find much interesting or appealing, or much of anything. Newport Beach is always available; we enjoyed it, but we are not really interested in regular visits. Maui was very nice, but we are on the East Coast and won't do that often (for that much travel, we prefer Europe or Asia, where we go, but not with MVC much). We've used it for pulse locations (DC) twice (nice place, but not a great points use).

My regular searches basically show no inventory all the time unless I go deep, deep into the off-season. We are pretty flexible, but not interested in the very off-season inventory for the same reason it is available. I've looked at the specialized trips and cruises, etc. All of these seem to inefficiently convert your maintenance payment into surplus/discount inventory markets. Every single cruise I found (about 5 or 6 tested) was much more attractive when searching discount cruise sites directly. I didn't see any lift above maintenance fees (I think all the cruises were available for less than the points pro-rata maintenance fees), let alone a premium for having joined the program.

I wouldn't even consider turning a week into points now (and never did that). I can't see any reasonable added flexibility to our existing ownership. While good weeks clearly have more utility than than their maintenance fees, I don't see this with points, let along any premium for the up-front membership.

Does anything see this improving? Could I be doing something wrong? Do I need a different search/request approach?

I'm trying to understand whether this is a post-COVID inventory problem or vast overselling and oversubscription of the points system.

For decades, I was a strong advocate for Marriott and encouraged a few people I know to buy (resale platinum weeks thankfully). Now, I just tell anyone who will asks to simply rent what you want through a service like Redweek with their verified reserve-through-redweek option. I met a family in Aruba earlier this year that had the impression points were as easy to use as booking a hotel, even with the constraints of a young child. They were contemplating a loan. I was embarrassed to even be at a Marriott property after hearing how they were trying to mislead these people.

This is increasingly annoying and disappointing for me, but not a hardship. We like to travel a lot and are quite flexible, but at least the points are turning into a dead end. We are still generally happy with the weeks, but the points seem like a scam at this point (I think we paid 35K-40K). I don't mean a weak product; I mean a scam in the full sense.

Is there a realistic way to get valuable usage from these points or is there some aspect of usage that I'm missing?

All feedback or follow-up questions welcome

Thanks in advance,
Dan

Hey Dan,

I completely agree with you. Marriott has become complete corporate nonsense and is giving a horrible value. On top of trying to put all the owners out of business trying to rent out their timeshares as well as us brokers. They haven’t done that completely but They are doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible and will be taking even further measures quickly and often in my opinion of having been in the industry for 25 years.

The only good way to use points is to book them at the Ritz Carlton properties, which are fantastic however, make sure you book as far out as possible. One thing you can do to actually use the points even at the good places when they’re sold out is you definitely have to get on the waiting list. Most people don’t get on the waiting list and something like 10 to 20% of all reservations cancel and they go to whoever’s on the waiting list first. You can usually do the waiting list on chat or by calling in that will give you your highest success rate of getting these sold out reservations.

You are smart the best way to use. It is by locking off your units and trading through Interval, back to the same resorts or the higher points resorts. So your best bet is to keep trading the old way through interval book your highest demand weeks through the travel demand index and deposit them immediately with Interval, to give you the highest trading power. Then just trade back into the resort you like even if it’s the same one. The only good value for points is to stay at the Ritz Carlton properties. Other than that, there’s no value in timeshares. I just sold all my timeshares my three Marriott weeks presidential program.

I sold two of them to Marriott and the third ones on the market. But I don’t even like the timeshares anymore. You can stay at Airbnb’s, which are much nicer and roomier and I can book whatever I want whenever I want for less than the cost of my maintenance fees for one week.

Plus, they’ve been cheaping out on the beds. The mattresses are horrible nowadays, they don’t clean the rooms anyways not even mid week, they’re starting to charge for towels and every other type of amenity. You can’t just go to your room and check in. You have to go to the front desk and all that nonsense.

With vacation homes you just show up and you have the key to the door electronically, you can take your pets and they are way more comfortable all for less than the cost of the maintenance of a typical week at Marriott

Plus most short-term host certain learning to turn their Airbnb into hotel style so it’s so much better business model. I am selling all my timeshares Wyndham, Worldmark , Marriott and putting the money into Bitcoin and Just staying at Airbnb’s from now on.

Intend to 20 years the timeshare industry will be replaced by people doing smarter things like 10, 15, 20 year leases with no maintenance cost on the block chain digital assets that you can trade and stay at hotels. Or eventually, they’ll get smart enough and create homes that they will manage that you can buy into that actually create cash flow like a real asset. But right now they’re being too greedy because what they do is they take your points you turn in for cruises and all those other things and they rent them out on marriott.com. That’s why you can never get in anywhere if you want to know the truth.

The Timeshare companies made over $3 billion last year, renting out peoples points on their hotel sites. You can test it for yourself go to marriott.com anytime put in the Resort you’re trying to go to. That’s not available and see if they have it for rent on there. Nine times out of 10 they will. They are making a fortune and they’re being so greedy it’s going to ruin the entire program.

 

[elked12]

She

Going back to the OP’s comments about the difficulty in getting the reservations they want, for whatever reason, we have yet to experience that same disappointment. We have owned MVC Points and resale weeks since 2014 and have yet to be unable to get what we want. Granted, we have never wanted, or needed, to book summer vacation, Christmas, or spring break. Our usage has been Hawaii in the Jan-Mar time frame (using both weeks and Points) and a few other Points destinations in the spring or fall (Palm Desert, Newport Coast, Ocean Pointe, Marco Island, and prior to buying a whole condo there, Hilton Head).

I was expecting difficulty and frustration trying to book Aruba for winter 2025 since there is no Trust ownership there, but as it turned out, searching right at 12 month release, I easily grabbed the second week of March at Aruba Ocean Club, which was our first choice week.

I can’t completely explain why our experience has been so much more positive than others report, but we’ve yet to be frustrated trying to use

Going back to the OP’s comments about the difficulty in getting the reservations they want, for whatever reason, we have yet to experience that same disappointment. We have owned MVC Points and resale weeks since 2014 and have yet to be unable to get what we want. Granted, we have never wanted, or needed, to book summer vacation, Christmas, or spring break. Our usage has been Hawaii in the Jan-Mar time frame (using both weeks and Points) and a few other Points destinations in the spring or fall (Palm Desert, Newport Coast, Ocean Pointe, Marco Island, and prior to buying a whole condo there, Hilton Head).

I was expecting difficulty and frustration trying to book Aruba for winter 2025 since there is no Trust ownership there, but as it turned out, searching right at 12 month release, I easily grabbed the second week of March at Aruba Ocean Club, which was our first choice week.

I can’t completely explain why our experience has been so much more positive than others report, but we’ve yet to be frustrated trying to use MVC.

hello, when is the exact 12 month release date? That is what’s confusing to me. Thank you.

 

[h2tugh]

I agree entirely with your assessment.

In my opinion, the MVC of today is unrecognizable. I trace this back to the spin-off (of MVC) from Marriott International. I believe the Marriott International “core values” are long gone at MVC. Further, I have no confidence in MVC’s Leadership Team; I believe they are unscrupulous, and do not have MVC Owner’s interests on their radar screen.

Owner Services is a disaster, the MVC website is a disaster, and Marriott’s Product Supply Management/Inventory Management is scandalous. I am unimpressed with MVC’s villa refurbishments.

On the Marriott Lodging side of the Marriott business, I believe that Marriott Bonvoy is amongst the worst brand loyalty programs in the world.

This is not the Marriott that we knew 50 years ago, and not the MVC that we knew 40 years ago. One would have expected these enterprises to get better with time, but, they’ve gotten worse.

We will sell our multiple MVC weeks, sometime soon, when the timing is right, and our patience is exhausted with MVC. Certainly, our confidence in MVC is long gone. We vigorously discourage our friends from considering a MVC purchase.

Totally agree! Have enjoyed the experience for 27 years with 3.5 weeks and 2k DPs along the way. Maybe it’s the COVID surge of unused points and the enormous MF increases. Our MFs approached $9k this year and the alarm bells sounded loud and clear - time to head for an exit! Thank goodness for the MVC EXIT PROGRAM. Will rent what we want when we want it.

 

[elked12]

Not sure if my original question to Jim’s response went through so posting it again:

hello, when is the exact 12 month release date? That is what’s confusing to me. Thank you

 

[Fasttr]

Not sure if my original question to Jim’s response went through so posting it again:

hello, when is the exact 12 month release date? That is what’s confusing to me. Thank you

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[jp10558]

I believe that the timeshare industry is going thru a major change. It has become very complicated and competitive to book properties. a simple thing like being able to work remotely, I am sure have made a big impact. In the olden days w you would travel on a Tuesday and be alone at the airport - not any more. You are now competing with someone who can go to Hawaii for 2-3 weeks and work remotely and then take a week of vacation in Tahoe during Ski season.

I think this really really depends on locations and time. I do a lot of WFH at timeshares for the last 2 years. I've also been more than happy to stay and RCI Extra Vacations at cheap prices, and in off seasons / shoulder season. I can't talk specifically to Marriott, but I've really noticed some "weird" stuff - places staff saying they're booked up, but we see no other cars in the parking lots, and don't run into anyone. Many places with easy availability. A few places that were quite busy, but I still paid cash sub $650 for the week in a 2BR. One last minute owner rental in Surfside Beach for $550 for 5 days.

I think MVC is going through some difficulties, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the entire industry. I think independents are having issues also, but like in some threads on that, it's not every one. It seems obvious to me that MVC (and others) aren't managing to build up to average demand in some locations. It's also unclear if they want to / can though.

But for the WFH traveler I don't know that they're looking for prime seasons for a couple of reasons.(at least for me)

1) For a lot of the week, you're working. You can't easily do all the different things in a prime season, and the things you can do, you probably don't want huge crowds so you can fit them in with more limited time.

2) You don't want massive noise and such during the work week, so slower times are better.

3) Because you can go on more trips, getting lower season prices or cash deals is very appealing to allow more trips.

I honestly think a lot of WFH travelers could be a real help for filling less desirable weeks via exchange or cash rates or lower points costs cause they can easily go in shoulder or low season, and often there's something to do and enjoy even though it's not prime season. I guess that competes with some retirees - but those weeks often seem pretty lightly filled so IDK if it's making it that much harder.

 

[elked12]

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Is that for points reservations too?

 

[dioxide45]

Is that for points reservations too?

Yes

 

[jp10558]

With vacation homes you just show up and you have the key to the door electronically, you can take your pets and they are way more comfortable all for less than the cost of the maintenance of a typical week at Marriott

Plus most short-term host certain learning to turn their Airbnb into hotel style so it’s so much better business model. I am selling all my timeshares Wyndham, Worldmark , Marriott and putting the money into Bitcoin and Just staying at Airbnb’s from now on.

I know Marriott is overly expensive, but I semi constantly see this argument that Airbnb is cheaper, and I just have never been able to actually confirm what I'd consider like for like in area, bedrooms and bathrooms and time for it to be cheaper than my MFs and especially not cheaper than my RCI Extra Vacations or II Getaways. I know someone who rents vacation homes (not sure if it's Airbnb) and the last one was 8 br for $11,000 for the week. This is great if you can get 8 people in the rooms and split it, but even then it puts it well above my MFs cost for 2BR. And forget about Extra Vacations in RCI. I am all for going on trips with more people, but 8 rooms is a lot to fill.

They have a different set of amenities in the large vacation homes also, which to me makes them only a substitute if you are wanting 6-8 BR, and don't want the resort stuff at all.

Comparing 2BR condos it's the same story in terms of cost - they're almost never better than my MFs, and way off the Extra Vacations prices in many many cases. They compete more with midrange hotel rooms on a per bedroom basis, but again they have kitchens, but not maid service whenever you want (or daily).

Intend to 20 years the timeshare industry will be replaced by people doing smarter things like 10, 15, 20 year leases with no maintenance cost on the block chain digital assets that you can trade and stay at hotels.

I still have yet to see anything on a blockchain that wasn't basically a scam. I have no idea why this would be something that companies would be interested in when they already have point based trading using traditional technologies (all the rewards exchanges) for fractions of the cost in computer power and therefore energy, and that "clear" instantly.

Or eventually, they’ll get smart enough and create homes that they will manage that you can buy into that actually create cash flow like a real asset.

I'm pretty sure that at best it's recreating larger fractional ownership, but really that's just a timeshare with a different coat of paint.

But right now they’re being too greedy because what they do is they take your points you turn in for cruises and all those other things and they rent them out on marriott.com. That’s why you can never get in anywhere if you want to know the truth.

This is probably true but it seems to me that what we're all complaining about here is not that the points aren't valid to use, it's that it decreasing the amount of wastage so there's more competition then there used to be. In essence we're saying that less savvy owners should continue to get 0 value out of MFs so we have more availability rather than letting them presumably get some value out of a cruise or whatever they can use. Where there's a problem would be if the companies were overbooking points via renting, or speculatively booking just as the inventory opens up for booking to take the best week to try and rent later. If it's just a pool of points and they check availability when the end renter is trying to book on marriott.com I don't really see the issue.

The Timeshare companies made over $3 billion last year, renting out peoples points on their hotel sites. You can test it for yourself go to marriott.com anytime put in the Resort you’re trying to go to. That’s not available and see if they have it for rent on there. Nine times out of 10 they will. They are making a fortune and they’re being so greedy it’s going to ruin the entire program.

Yea, if true that does sound like a scam. Like I said, it seems like it should be equally available in either method.

 

[thechief118]

First time post here, sorry for not yet being up to speed on all the abbreviations y'all use. We own Vistana Flex options, and decided for 2024 to convert them to Marriott club points thinking we'd have more options with Marriott locations. Not knowing summer schedules due to teenagers activities, we waited too long to book things in advance, and finding the well dry, we banked them to 2025 then started looking at options. We were able to get into a HHI property (Heritage Club) when the 12 month window opened for an August stay. Still having points to use, we looked for spring break, and found Legends Edge in Panama City. Neither are right on the beach, and we're not super excited about a 9-hour drive to the panhandle, but at least both are week stays. Our excitement over potential conversion of flex options to club points has been quickly doused into frustration over not being able to land what we want, when we want it, even when trying to book 9am day of window opening. Those 2 stays only leave 50 club points on the table, so at least we have been able to get value out of it. But even just messing around and looking 12 months ahead for week stays ANYWHERE in the system has not left us inspired about what's available.

We do look forward to learning more from y'all, glad to have found TUG!

 

[Hindsite]

First time post here, sorry for not yet being up to speed on all the abbreviations y'all use. We own Vistana Flex options, and decided for 2024 to convert them to Marriott club points thinking we'd have more options with Marriott locations. Not knowing summer schedules due to teenagers activities, we waited too long to book things in advance, and finding the well dry, we banked them to 2025 then started looking at options. We were able to get into a HHI property (Heritage Club) when the 12 month window opened for an August stay. Still having points to use, we looked for spring break, and found Legends Edge in Panama City. Neither are right on the beach, and we're not super excited about a 9-hour drive to the panhandle, but at least both are week stays. Our excitement over potential conversion of flex options to club points has been quickly doused into frustration over not being able to land what we want, when we want it, even when trying to book 9am day of window opening. Those 2 stays only leave 50 club points on the table, so at least we have been able to get value out of it. But even just messing around and looking 12 months ahead for week stays ANYWHERE in the system has not left us inspired about what's available.

We do look forward to learning more from y'all, glad to have found TUG!

Did you try wait listing for what you wanted, that works well for getting bookings at shorter notice. Also, if you search by different, sometimes smaller, sometimes longer numbers of days, you can piece together the dates that you want.

 

[MikeM132]

I suspect the fraction of MVC owners who trade via II is 1% or less (maybe more use it for getaways). I'm relatively knowledgeable and haven't used II for about 10 years - it worked for me then, but I didn't like the way it works. And MVC hasn't been pushing it since they launched the DC system in 2010.

I've used II a few times over the past few years and got exactly what I wanted. I worried about a Lake Tahoe thing about 3 years ago coming out of Covid, as I had a specific time I needed. I did all that extra stuff on II you can pay for, which I suspect was just wasted money. If I were a little more patient, I think I would have got my exchange without it. I gave away two Hawaii weeks to our daughter and am down to just our original Grande Vista week, which has proved to be enough vacation for us (at least in timeshares) every year. I only cashed weeks in for points a couple times, and that was when we had too many weeks vacation on the books to use. Points were certainly handy but NOT a great value most of the time. We blew our final points on the books with Orlando "experience" stuff where you get park tickets for your points. Using them on a hotel or a cruise is very inefficient for the cost of the points vs the cost to just book that hotel or cruise with cash.

 

[MikeM132]

Did you not read my post? Try making a points reservation at Heritage Club for March right at 13th month. I tried every week when it opened up right at 6am Pacific time and came up empty. I am not doing anything wrong. If there is no inventory in the points inventory pool for a resort, then there is no ability to book it. I am a very experienced MVC owner, both weeks and points owner and use II extensively as well.

We used to exchange for Heritage every year. Tried points one year....nothing at all. Tried II and got a week. Here's what I believe on Heritage---it's tiny (38 villas?) and virtually all weeks owners. Sold out totally. Unless some owner cashes in for points or something, I don't see how a points owner is ever going to see this resort. This situation exists, to some extent, at other "sold out" Marriott resorts where weeks owners dominate. Hence the high pressure to trade in your week for points. My advice ...NEVER DO THIS. Your week will always be a week. They can't devalue it. You have all the cards as a week owner. Don't turn them in.

 

[dougp26364]

We used to exchange for Heritage every year. Tried points one year....nothing at all. Tried II and got a week. Here's what I believe on Heritage---it's tiny (38 villas?) and virtually all weeks owners. Sold out totally. Unless some owner cashes in for points or something, I don't see how a points owner is ever going to see this resort. This situation exists, to some extent, at other "sold out" Marriott resorts where weeks owners dominate. Hence the high pressure to trade in your week for points. My advice ...NEVER DO THIS. Your week will always be a week. They can't devalue it. You have all the cards as a week owner. Don't turn them in.

The older resorts on HHI were assigned such low point totals it made very little sense for any of the weeks owners to join Abound, let alone convert one of their weeks to Abound points. Those weeks are more valuable to use, rent or exchange through II.

As time has gone on I’ve seen more availability using points for the older HHI resorts. I suspect that inventory has come from owners or estates turning those deeds back in to MVC. The resort is old enough I could see an elderly ownership base that has reached a point they either don’t travel anymore or have passed away and the family didn’t want the deed.

 

[ljmiii]

First time post here, sorry for not yet being up to speed on all the abbreviations y'all use. We own Vistana Flex options, and decided for 2024 to convert them to Marriott club points thinking we'd have more options with Marriott locations. Not knowing summer schedules due to teenagers activities, we waited too long to book things in advance...

As a Vistana owner you have an option MVC owners don't have which is to call and ask the Customer Service Representative about MVC availability at 12 (or 13) months, ask them to hold that reservation if the one you want is available, and only then convert your flex options to Abound points.

Obviously that may not work if you are trying to stretch your points into a later year, but when your schedule is uncertain I do encourage you to do as we do and make a speculative reservation (ideally early in the summer) that can then be moved if necessary.

We do look forward to learning more from y'all, glad to have found TUG!

Welcome! I found TUG over a decade ago and the members have taught me rather a lot about how best to use our timeshare ownership.

 

[Bodie]

Very disappointed in MVC in the last few years. I understand servicing the shareholders and investors is the holy grail but at least look like you care about the owners. New additions are underwhelming, maintenance fees are out of control, purchase price out of whack for what one gets, too many owners chasing the few desirable properties. I could go on. I will say Customer Service does its best to accommodate and that is appreciated. Further, we have had some wonderful experiences with our ownership (2004). Would I buy again? Probably not.