HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[Sugarcubesea]

I believe after welk and Hyatt are integrated it will be on the market again.

I bet that is exactly what will happen...

 

[seatrout]

If an owner tries to get the unit back from CUP during the HRPP period, it's gone and not retrievable. Your account shows it as gone from HRPP and the points are in CUP. It sounds like you are suggesting it goes to a "never, never land" floating category until 6 months?

My understanding is that we have a deeded week, and that deeded week is for us to reserve. So it is in some "hold never never land" It is out of HRC inventory for other to book. We either elect to occupy our home club or not. If we choose it not stay home and get either CUP points or HPP point instead-- then the unit get release to its respective pool.

 

[seatrout]

From what I have been reading, it seems that the HPP system was built and but did not provide a real incentive to join. When I converted Welk weeks to Welk points the incentive was access to the new resorts. Neither Cabo, Northstar, Breckenridge, the "experience collection" et al are available to owners that do not own points; the weeks owners only get weeks at their resort (either fixed or float).
And when I converted Northstar and Breckenridge were not even part of the collection. The resort expansion provided increased value to the points I already owned.

True to some degree. But I think the tide is changing.

Prior to HPP, all Hyatt owner are happy with HRC points and could access the excess developer units. We look forward to Hyatt building new resorts so we can go to. There were absolutely no reason to join HPP. Had they did a minimal fees like Marriott to "enroll" your week to get all the extra perk such as banking, no fees, it might have gone through faster. The cost of entry was too hight and required to pay 13K-20k to buy some useless number of point. Marriott did the same by convincing me to buy additional 1000 DC points so that I could access this imaginary "Trust Pool" of new resort such as Maui. I do see the tide is however changing as most Hyatt owner are not those in this forum. The current available inventory is definitely different and tilt toward the HPP side at the >6 month window.

Looking forward, I have a more positive view of this merger- at least in the near future. It may likely be sold off anyway.
Likely all "sold" inventory will be in their respective pool such as
1. HWC for Welk points/week-
2. HRC for Hyatt HRC
3. HPP for all converted HPP and developer unsold units from both Welk & Hyatt

Club to club exchange agreement to across club such as the one currently exist between HRC and HPP.
Since there is a large amount of developer unsold unit "3 1/2 years built inventory" from Welk, they will be selling it for years and the pitch would be to access this pot early

The difficult questions is how to convert the various different location/season to a common currency. My understanding that the maintenance fees for 3BR at Northstar is around 6K +/year. So those weeks/point value may get convert to 4400 points. But what Aspen/Hyatt people would say to their point conversion.

 

[Kal]

My understanding is that we have a deeded week, and that deeded week is for us to reserve. So it is in some "hold never never land" It is out of HRC inventory for other to book. We either elect to occupy our home club or not. If we choose it not stay home and get either CUP points or HPP point instead-- then the unit get release to its respective pool.

It sounds like we are saying the same thing. The owned unit is in HRPP for 6 months available only to the owner to book. If for example, the HRPP owner books something else with those points at say 2 months, at that point the HRPP status is removed and the unit is made available to the Club via CUP. It is not held in abeyance for the remaining 4 months.

 

[JohnPaul]

I own in a lot of timeshare systems, but not Welk or Hyatt. I have had one exchange in each program and was very happy with them. Hyatt Sunset Harbor about 20 years ago and Welk Village on the Green last year.

By going to a Welk presentation last year we got a 2 night stay at Welk Northstar for the sole cost of another presentation. Our stay is booked for April (obviously not a high season but what worked) in a 2 bedroom unit. An additional night was $99.

I think that it will be interesting to see the spin at the required presentation.

 

[Kal]

WHAT IF....only 2 of the Welk resorts match up to the Hyatt level of quality and the remainder are dogs. What would be the impact to HRC if all those resorts are placed into HRC???

? High demand for the two, little demand for the others?
? High demand for original HRC resorts plus the 2 Welk by a much larger member pool?
? Low occupancy for the "other Welk resorts"?
? Financial implications of higher annual maintenance fees on former Welk owners?
WHAT IF

 

[seatrout]

WHAT IF....only 2 of the Welk resorts match up to the Hyatt level of quality and the remainder are dogs. What would be the impact to HRC if all those resorts are placed into HRC???

? High demand for the two, little demand for the others?
? High demand for original HRC resorts plus the 2 Welk by a much larger member pool?
? Low occupancy for the "other Welk resorts"?
? Financial implications of higher annual maintenance fees on former Welk owners?
WHAT IF
[/QUOTE

WHAT IF....only 2 of the Welk resorts match up to the Hyatt level of quality and the remainder are dogs. What would be the impact to HRC if all those resorts are placed into HRC???

? High demand for the two, little demand for the others?
? High demand for original HRC resorts plus the 2 Welk by a much larger member pool?
? Low occupancy for the "other Welk resorts"?
? Financial implications of higher annual maintenance fees on former Welk owners?
WHAT IF

The different quality between different location exist in all timeshare system currently. The correction would be amount of points required to book it and would differ on season. Welk currently are doing it and Marriott adopted this approach when they roll out the Destimation Club.

as to maintenance fees, I do not see how it would changes. Current maintenances fees for Welk is point based and is a function of underlying resort that the point own. It may even be decreased with better purchasing power. HPP trust point maintenance fees is the same as it is a function of the average cost per point. I do not see significant changes other than that the “build up unsold inventory “ would be harder to book for existing Welk Owner

 

[seatrout]

I also do not see a situation that Welk inventory would deposit to HRC but a new pot call HWC as it currently
access from between HWC ,HRC, HPP would be via the club to club exchange agreement

 

[Kal]

...as to maintenance fees, I do not see how it would changes. Current maintenances fees for Welk is point based and is a function of underlying resort that the point own. It may even be decreased with better purchasing power. HPP trust point maintenance fees is the same as it is a function of the average cost per point. I do not see significant changes other than that the “build up unsold inventory “ would be harder to book for existing Welk Owner

The issue is Hyatt. When you look at the maintenance fee budget, there are numerous line items devoted to Hyatt Management (not resort specific management). The local board of directors has no control of those line items. My guess is that cost of that involvement will be considerably higher than the cost of Welk management. That cost structure spans both HPP and HRC. Get ready for a sticker shock.

 

[skimeup]

I have only owned one week at Highlands Inn for three years and haven't stayed there. I've exchanged into other Hyatts and into Interval and I always thought that I would need to call Hyatt to release my points so that I could use them at another Hyatt. Is it the case that I can just book online and it will automatically release my points and complete the booking?

I have spent many hours trying to learn this system - and received much education from Kal's posts. But I never heard this.

I'd also like to point out that availability at any of the Welks or Hyatts right now is very misleading. Most timeshare owners, I think, are over 50 and in the more susceptible group for COVID. So not traveling so much. And at the ski resorts, the problem is booking tickets as they are restricting the number of people on the slopes - so hotel/timeshare availability is the least of the problems.

 

[RunCat]

WHAT IF....only 2 of the Welk resorts match up to the Hyatt level of quality and the remainder are dogs. What would be the impact to HRC if all those resorts are placed into HRC???

? High demand for the two, little demand for the others?
? High demand for original HRC resorts plus the 2 Welk by a much larger member pool?
? Low occupancy for the "other Welk resorts"?
? Financial implications of higher annual maintenance fees on former Welk owners?
WHAT IF

The fact that you are asking the question shows that you know little about the Welk resorts. From what I have seen, none of them have little demand, this year being the exception. And the current "availability" of resorts is somewhat misleading due to the amount of inventory that is owned by the developer that he can put into rental and exchange pools.
Re: maintenance fees. I really have no idea what Hyatt fees are. However, it is no less than what I am paying currently for Vistana.
Re: quality. Welk in general is pretty high quality; it just lack brand appeal. But from an overall resort experience, between the activities and amenities that exist on site, Welk overall seems to be a better value.

 

[seatrout]

The issue is Hyatt. When you look at the maintenance fee budget, there are numerous line items devoted to Hyatt Management (not resort specific management). The local board of directors has no control of those line items. My guess is that cost of that involvement will be considerably higher than the cost of Welk management. That cost structure spans both HPP and HRC. Get ready for a sticker shock.

I am always upset that my underlying deeded week maintenance fees keep increasing every year in Hyatt and Marriott. But then compared to those Marriott DC trust point and Hyatt trust HPP point they are significantly lower per points. Then I look at the maintenance fees for Hyatt beaver creek or Aspen., I am happy I am able to trade there and not that maintenance fees. So it is all relative.

Currently maintenance fees for Welk look high already. Maybe Welk owners can comment of the maintenance fees required to book a 2 BR at various place. But my guess is that it is higher than what we Are paying and is more consistent with point base system

 

[Pathways]

I have only owned one week at Highlands Inn for three years and haven't stayed there. I've exchanged into other Hyatts and into Interval and I always thought that I would need to call Hyatt to release my points so that I could use them at another Hyatt. Is it the case that I can just book online and it will automatically release my points and complete the booking?

Just go online, find what you want to reserve and start the process. If you have no CUP points to book, or not enough, it will then point to your HRPP week(s) and you simply choose which one to release into CUP points, and it will take however many points you need and put the rest into your CUP account. The system always uses the oldest points, keeping your account the most efficient.

 

[Shankilicious]

I am always upset that my underlying deeded week maintenance fees keep increasing every year in Hyatt and Marriott. But then compared to those Marriott DC trust point and Hyatt trust HPP point they are significantly lower per points. Then I look at the maintenance fees for Hyatt beaver creek or Aspen., I am happy I am able to trade there and not that maintenance fees. So it is all relative.

Currently maintenance fees for Welk look high already. Maybe Welk owners can comment of the maintenance fees required to book a 2 BR at various place. But my guess is that it is higher than what we Are paying and is more consistent with point base system

I listed the MF for 2019 in my post titled Welk in the other exchange systems description of Welk but I'll post it again.
420k points is what you need for ski season 2BR in Tahoe. So around $2300 now. However, that includes RCI Platinum membership, no parking fees, no cancellation fees, no booking fees no matter how many times we book, Guest certs used to be fee but now they're $50, no transfer fees even into the collection/affiliated resorts.

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[Kal]

The fact that you are asking the question shows that you know little about the Welk resorts. From what I have seen, none of them have little demand, this year being the exception. And the current "availability" of resorts is somewhat misleading due to the amount of inventory that is owned by the developer that he can put into rental and exchange pools.
Re: maintenance fees. I really have no idea what Hyatt fees are. However, it is no less than what I am paying currently for Vistana.
Re: quality. Welk in general is pretty high quality; it just lack brand appeal. But from an overall resort experience, between the activities and amenities that exist on site, Welk overall seems to be a better value.

I'm not talking demand within the organization, but rather level of quality. Maybe a way to evaluate the two systems is to compare the resorts side-by-side. IMHO, I would think Branson and Escondido would be a stretch. Northstar would be a great match (still don't know why Hyatt sold interests to Welk).

 

[seatrout]

I listed the MF for 2019 in my post titled Welk in the other exchange systems description of Welk but I'll post it again.
420k points is what you need for ski season 2BR in Tahoe. So around $2300 now. However, that includes RCI Platinum membership, no parking fees, no cancellation fees, no booking fees no matter how many times we book, Guest certs used to be fee but now they're $50, no transfer fees even into the collection/affiliated resorts.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Thank you. It is interesting that it is not linear. Currently Hyatt HPP and Marriott trust point maintenance fees are simply per points. I saw a resale posting for Northstar week 51 3BR Currently listed on RedWeek The maintenance fees of that was around $6500. Unless I read it wrong, how does Welk subsidize that maintenances fees compared to your point cost for booking?.

 

[Shankilicious]

Thank you. It is interesting that it is not linear. Currently Hyatt HPP and Marriott trust point maintenance fees are simply per points. I saw a resale posting for Northstar week 51 3BR Currently listed on RedWeek The maintenance fees of that was around $6500. Unless I read it wrong, how does Welk subsidize that maintenances fees compared to your point cost for booking?.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean but the MF are set up as a $700ish base fee for all points accounts. Then $0.0033/point on top of that.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[seatrout]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean but the MF are set up as a $700ish base fee for all points accounts. Then $0.0033/point on top of that.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[seatrout]

From your post, 240,000 points has around $1500 MF. But 1M points MF is only $4100 and not $6000.

Regardless, since the maintenance of the underlying week 51 3BR Northstar is $6500, how many points does it cost to book that week. ---- I saw your point chart for Welk and it seem that point cost for that week is 5400 for 3BR. Since MF for that quantity of points is significantly lower than the MF of the underlying week, the owner of that week would likely try his/her best to rent in open market and would only deposit if they are not successful at last minute.

 

[nuwermj]

Regardless, since the maintenance of the underlying week 51 3BR Northstar is $6500, how many points does it cost to book that week. ---- I saw your point chart for Welk and it seem that point cost for that week is 5400 for 3BR. Since MF for that quantity of points is significantly lower than the MF of the underlying week, the owner of that week would likely try his/her best to rent in open market and would only deposit if they are not successful at last minute.

Welk has never sold deeded weeks at Northstart. I think building A has some fractional units that are 18 day intervals. That might be what you saw in the secondary market.

 

[bizaro86]

Thank you. It is interesting that it is not linear. Currently Hyatt HPP and Marriott trust point maintenance fees are simply per points. I saw a resale posting for Northstar week 51 3BR Currently listed on RedWeek The maintenance fees of that was around $6500. Unless I read it wrong, how does Welk subsidize that maintenances fees compared to your point cost for booking?.

I don't think Welk ever sold fixed weeks. And that redweek listing is a Hyatt fixed week (actually multiple). You get the fixed week 51 plus some other Hyatt points. The same ad is on myresortnetwork.com where you can see the details without a membership.

 

[travelhacker]

From your post, 240,000 points has around $1500 MF. But 1M points MF is only $4100 and not $6000.

Regardless, since the maintenance of week 51 3BR Northstar is $6500, how many points does it cost to book that week>

It looks like owners at Northstar get 2 weeks of usage with that $6500 plus a midweek stay (1/20th share).

It looks like they get their fixed week (2950 points), a platinum week and 3300 points of floating time.

To turn it to Welk points that would be 480,000 for the christmas week + 480,000 for a summer week, and we'll say 240,000 for the half -week stay.

It looks like the maintenance fees would be $4,660 ($700 + 1,200,000 x .0033).

One thing to point out is that the cost for a 3 bedroom is a good value at the Welk Northstar (a 3 bedroom is comprised of a studio 120K and a 2 bedroom 420K) -- so you are saving 60K by getting the 3 bedroom.

Remember though that the Hyatt cost is closer to the cost that the points trust is paying in maintenance fees for the equivalent weeks (remember the Hyatt and Welk split shared costs). I would think the biggest difference would be in club dues (in this case 157 * 2.5 = $392.50 for Hyatt) vs Welk (it sounds like the Welk equivalent would be $700).

The cost to maintain Northstar gets offset by lower maintenance fee weeks within the Welk trust. If you only book Northstar, you would definitely maximize your value.

 

[travelhacker]

I don't know as much as you folks here on TUG I admire your knowledge base. I am a Welk owner and I feel like I got gypped. I was hoping to share our situation and please ask for feedback because I am not sure I am seeing the big picture: my in-laws joined Welk in the 80’s. We grew up in and around Welk and inherited their 300k points three years ago because they both passed away. Then 2 years ago we spent only 2k to buy a 180k point account not realizing the distinction between the two types of ownership. The big one being the two owner base fees. The other one being the idea that those points had different status and were looked at differently. So just a year ago we paid 7K to add 60k points and blend everything to be 540 Priority Level Platinum owner. We haven’t even had the chance to experience the perks that came along with it nor have we had the chance to recoup by saving the base owner fee each year. These were the reasons we paid those fees. Does that make sense? That’s the part that is hard for me to judge.

You may want to post a separate thread. @Shankilicious @nuwermj @RunCat are knowledgeable about welk.

If you like the resort in Escondido, it sounds like you could get a couple of weeks each year there with your points. If you are a skier, the Northstar Lodge looks fantastic and would be a good value. If you wanted to splurge, the 2 bedroom penthouse in Cabo San Lucas (540K points per week) seems like it would be a great option.

 

[Shankilicious]

I don't know as much as you folks here on TUG I admire your knowledge base. I am a Welk owner and I feel like I got gypped. I was hoping to share our situation and please ask for feedback because I am not sure I am seeing the big picture: my in-laws joined Welk in the 80’s. We grew up in and around Welk and inherited their 300k points three years ago because they both passed away. Then 2 years ago we spent only 2k to buy a 180k point account not realizing the distinction between the two types of ownership. The big one being the two owner base fees. The other one being the idea that those points had different status and were looked at differently. So just a year ago we paid 7K to add 60k points and blend everything to be 540 Priority Level Platinum owner. We haven’t even had the chance to experience the perks that came along with it nor have we had the chance to recoup by saving the base owner fee each year. These were the reasons we paid those fees. Does that make sense? That’s the part that is hard for me to judge.

The good thing is that it will be a couple years before the Hyatt/Welk merger gets a program that joins the two.
So learn the system as it is as best as you can and there's a good chance that owners of Welk and Hyatt before the merger, "legacy owners" will have the option for a long time to remain in their own systems. It may be 7-10 years before Hyatt/Marriott starts to unofficially force legacy owners to join the new points program that Hyatt/Welk will come up with in the next year or so.

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[seatrout]

It looks like owners at Northstar get 2 weeks of usage with that $6500 plus a midweek stay (1/20th share).

It looks like they get their fixed week (2950 points), a platinum week and 3300 points of floating time.

To turn it to Welk points that would be 480,000 for the christmas week + 480,000 for a summer week, and we'll say 240,000 for the half -week stay.

It looks like the maintenance fees would be $4,660 ($700 + 1,200,000 x .0033).

One thing to point out is that the cost for a 3 bedroom is a good value at the Welk Northstar (a 3 bedroom is comprised of a studio 120K and a 2 bedroom 420K) -- so you are saving 60K by getting the 3 bedroom.

Remember though that the Hyatt cost is closer to the cost that the points trust is paying in maintenance fees for the equivalent weeks (remember the Hyatt and Welk split shared costs). I would think the biggest difference would be in club dues (in this case 157 * 2.5 = $392.50 for Hyatt) vs Welk (it sounds like the Welk equivalent would be $700).

The cost to maintain Northstar gets offset by lower maintenance fee weeks within the Welk trust. If you only book Northstar, you would definitely maximize your value.

That make more sense.

Looking at the Welk point chart, 240,000 point is a 2BR deposit to RIC/II which is equivalent to 1300 Hyatt Points. Typically diamond ski week would cost 2200 point to book if it is available. Welk 2BR ski is 450,000 convert to 2437 Hyatt points which sound entirely reasonable for 2BR ski week in Northstar. Typical diamond 2200 Hyatt point would be around 406,150 Welk points.

The real points values/discount in Hyatt is the 4,5,6 night stay that avoid Saturday night. As I pointed out earlier, 2200 to book KeyWest 7 night Xmas but only 1320 for 6 night with check in Sunday