HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[seatrout]

Again, away from the thread subject, but..

I was told even if I 'Hyattize to points' my weeks in the ownership, the tier for free stuff changes each year depending on whether I actually turn my week into points. Is that correct?

Yes. but if you don't occupied the home club. I do noe see a benefit of converting to HRC as to HPP.

 

[bradj]

Hey Bradi, I'm willing to bet you a nice steak dinner that you and 99.97 percent of HRC owners are not aware that they have been without active club leadership for over 18 months now! Yup no president, John Burlingame, gone! No secretary, gone! No treasure, gone! HRC management system has been eroded away to just 3 region's divisional manager's. East, West and Hawaii, these 3 regional managers take there orders from Marriott Vacation Club CEO Stephen P Weisz.
BTW I 100 percent agree with you that MVC has had 4 years to enhance our Hyatt vacation experience and could not do it! So its gearing up to unload for a profit of course, after all its responsible to its shareholders not club members!
Regards,
Tenga

I won't take your "nice steak dinner" bet. It would be a sure loss and I'd be out a steak dinner. You're right, this whole merger is a set up for a likely future sale. We just don't know when. Resort owners are not even a small factor in this scenario.

 

[bradj]

Hi Kal, Stephen Weisz a 35 year Marriott company man knows that if he keeps both programs "HRC/Welk" as stand alone, no buyer would be willing to pick up that trud, making it almost impossible to sell. IMO he has no choice but to integrate at the expense to both the HRC and Welk owners to keep MVC corporate shareholders and him out of the hot seat. If I was in his shoes, I'd do the same, Weisz has no choice but to bring Welk into HRC. It will be painful no doubt, and the final product will be a loss for all the owners involved. But the new owner of the now combined products/who ever that maybe, can pick up here and move forward! No one wants to buy a broken down club!
Regards,
Tenga

Finally, after all of these posts Tenga has this 100% right. Great vision. THANKS! And you did it all in one compact paragraph!

 

[Pathways]

Yes. but if you don't occupied the home club. I do noe see a benefit of converting to HRC as to HPP.

Sorry, not following, maybe an edit needed? I don't convert anything. All my weeks are HRC. You cannot 'convert to HRC'

 

[bradj]

Just to be precise, because there are a lot of acronyms used here, there is no HVC. I think you mean HRC or Hyatt. HVC could also be confused for Hilton. In reality, these are businesses that can be bought and sold. The management rights to resorts can be bought and sold. Your resort is a condo and has an underlying HOA. The resort is owned by the owners. Though the developer may still own inventory in the condo and may even own common, retail or food and beverage space. That unsold inventory can be sold to another developer.

I do agree, that Marriott Vacations Worldwide isn't buying Welk to improve the product for Hyatt owners. Though some may get benefits from it if they have new resorts to book. They want to make the company more valuable. Potentially for a spinoff, but no one knows if that is their plan. Hyatt is a pretty small network of resorts, adding Welk still doesn't bring it to the scale of Marriott Vacation Club, Wyndham or Hilton Grand Vacations. Though it could make it viable for a spinoff down the road.

My original contract was with Hyatt Vacation Club which at the time was HVC

 

[Pathways]

You're right, this whole merger is a set up for a likely future sale.

I get that they need to be merged. I don't get the sale part. Hyatt back office is all already gone. Welk back office and all that overhead will surely be gone within weeks of the closing. Agreements with Hyatt Hotels over the branding will be reached. Others have noted that Welk has three years of points to sell. The sales force at Welk with learn 'high pressure' and brag about joining Hyatt to their marks.

At that point, it's a cash cow. Why would they give up all that pure profit?

 

[seatrout]

Sorry, not following, maybe an edit needed? I don't convert anything. All my weeks are HRC. You cannot 'convert to HRC'

You owned deeded week. It is not in HRC until you elect CUP

 

[seatrout]

I get that they need to be merged. I don't get the sale part. Hyatt back office is all already gone. Welk back office and all that overhead will surely be gone within weeks of the closing. Agreements with Hyatt Hotels over the branding will be reached. Others have noted that Welk has three years of points to sell. The sales force at Welk with learn 'high pressure' and brag about joining Hyatt to their marks.

At that point, it's a cash cow. Why would they give up all that pure profit?

The existing club to club exchange agreement between HPP and HRC maybe a model for integration with the newly HWC inventory

the point conversion will be the challenge and interesting thing to see go between HWC and the existing Hyatt products

 

[Pathways]

You owned deeded week. It is not in HRC until you elect CUP

Sure it is. All weeks are HRC. It's called HRPP at the beginning of your year. You cannot own a week in the system that is not part of the HRC

 

[Tenga]

I get that they need to be merged. I don't get the sale part. Hyatt back office is all already gone. Welk back office and all that overhead will surely be gone within weeks of the closing. Agreements with Hyatt Hotels over the branding will be reached. Others have noted that Welk has three years of points to sell. The sales force at Welk with learn 'high pressure' and brag about joining Hyatt to their marks.

At that point, it's a cash cow. Why would they give up all that pure profit?

Hi Pathways, simple here is the answer to your question. HPP not a profit maker, never was. It was a quick rolled out project to compete with the competition in the industry. Unfortunately it never worked with in the club. Its inherit design was doomed to fail. It was by HRC shortsideness with them thinking that the weeks owner/holder would buy into the program as it was touted as the cats meow, you can have you cake and eat it too! By bringing in 55K + new members into the HPP equation= disaster to a already bad program!

MVC can "NOT" integrate HRC into its system, Its own large Marriott membership can't access into HRC properties why keep it? If I'm a MVC owner and my membership does not allow me use into HRC then what is the point of keeping it under the Marriott umbrella? Marriott never wanted HRC, it was a package deal! Marriott only wanted Interval International, it was all or nothing. Now MVC has what it wanted all along II, No reason to keep HRC. Best way to sell HRC is to enlarge/expand so its more attractive to the new owner. Simple as that.
Regards,
Tenga

 

[seatrout]

Sure it is. All weeks are HRC. It's called HRPP at the beginning of your year. You cannot own a week in the system that is not part of the HRC

Clarification. It is not in HRC bucket for people to book till you go to CUP

 

[dioxide45]

So what does HPP stand for? I see a new term here HRPP which has me confused. What is HRPP? I see in 10-k filing from ILG that they created a program called Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program in 2017. I think this is what everyone is calling HPP? No?

 

[Tenga]

So what does HPP stand for? Wait, wait, I have it! "Holy Problem People" !
!

Tenga

 

[Pathways]

Confusing eh? HRPP and CUP and a few others are specific Hyatt club terms describing your points.

When Hyatt was planning to roll out the points program, the term PPP or 'pure points program' was used by Tugger's. When it officially rolled out it was named Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program, so most now use HPP

 

[dioxide45]

So back to integration questions. We know the following

Hyatt has weeks owners - They have access to a points booking club.
Welk has weeks owners (25%) - Is there a points booking club for these owners, or can they only book their week or exchange through II
Hyatt has pure point owners - What if you owned a week when you bought points? Did they convert your deeded week to the points system?
Welk has pure point owners too - What if you own Welk points and Welk weeks?

 

[dioxide45]

Confusing eh? HRPP and CUP and a few others are specific Hyatt club terms describing your points.

When Hyatt was planning to roll out the points program, the term PPP or 'pure points program' was used by Tugger's. When it officially rolled out it was named Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program, so most now use HPP

Okay, then to say Hyatt weeks owners are HRPP at the beginning of their year isn't a correct statement. If HRPP were to somehow stand for Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program.

 

[Pathways]

Okay, then to say Hyatt weeks owners are HRPP at the beginning of their year isn't a correct statement. If HRPP were to somehow stand for Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program.

HRPP stands for 'Home Resort Preference Period'
CUP stands for 'Club Use Period"

There are others.. Tough to learn if you only own one week. Two or more it becomes easy

Kinda like the starwood/vistana/westin etc. I own only one week. I just can't seem to remember all the terms

 

[Kal]

You owned deeded week. It is not in HRC until you elect CUP

It might me a fine point, but you don't have to "elect CUP". The only real option is to "confirm HRPP". That means you will occupy the unit-week you own. If you don't confirm the HRPP unit by 6 months, the points will go into cup automatically. If you use any of the new points, even on day 1, the balance of points will go into CUP.

For me I have never "elected CUP" in decades of ownership. My ONLY concern was to reserve my HRPP week, or make sure I had enough CUP points to make whatever reservations I desired.

 

[nuwermj]

The vast, vast majority of Hyatt owners would not see giving up their week in Carmel for a week in Escondido as anything close to a "fair" trade.

I agree with most of your comment and appreciate your thoughts. I would add, however, that Escondido would not trade week for week. I crunched some numbers and I think the exchange rate for point will about 210-220 Welk points for one Hyatt point. At that rate, a 2BR at the Villas in Escondido will be a Hyatt "copper" unit, 1,100 Hyatt points. Even in the prime summer months when the resort is always full.

 

[Kal]

...Hyatt has pure point owners - What if you owned a week when you bought points? Did they convert your deeded week to the points system?...

If you buy into the HPP, you just hand them $13,000 and they give you ~670 HPP points. Other than a much of mumo-jumbo, "verbal promises" and some hotel points, that's all you get. Those 670 HPP points are almost worthless in trying to book something. If you own a 2000 point HRC week, you can transfer that week into HPP and you then have 2670 HPP points and operate at the "Beginner's Tier 1" level.

Bear in mind, you would be throwing $13,000 (which you cannot recover by resale) into a timeshare program. In the US, the timeshare systems in general are globally retreating. Resale prices are dropping dramatically. Many owners are beginning to think about the "end-game". The last guy out is holding an empty bag.

 

[nuwermj]

So back to integration questions. We know the following

Hyatt has weeks owners - They have access to a points booking club.
Welk has weeks owners (25%) - Is there a points booking club for these owners, or can they only book their week or exchange through II

Welk weeks owners (only two locations, San Diego and Palm Springs. No week owners elsewhere). There is no points booking club. II or RCI or other exchange company can be used.

Hyatt has pure point owners - What if you owned a week when you bought points? Did they convert your deeded week to the points system?
Welk has pure point owners too - What if you own Welk points and Welk weeks?

I own both Welk points and a deeded week. I traded three deeded weeks for points, keep the the other deeded weeks. My former deeds were then deposited into the trust fund, and I got the equivalent amount of points.

 

[seatrout]

It might me a fine point, but you don't have to "elect CUP". The only real option is to "confirm HRPP". That means you will occupy the unit-week you own. If you don't confirm the HRPP unit by 6 months, the points will go into cup automatically. If you use any of the new points, even on day 1, the balance of points will go into CUP.

For me I have never "elected CUP" in decades of ownership. My ONLY concern was to reserve my HRPP week, or make sure I had enough CUP points to make whatever reservations I desired.

Until you reserve HRPP or went to CUP by default at 6 month. That inventory is not available for other HRC owner to book
In the decade that I have owned, I have never been to my deeded weeks

 

[RunCat]

From what I have been reading, it seems that the HPP system was built and but did not provide a real incentive to join. When I converted Welk weeks to Welk points the incentive was access to the new resorts. Neither Cabo, Northstar, Breckenridge, the "experience collection" et al are available to owners that do not own points; the weeks owners only get weeks at their resort (either fixed or float).
And when I converted Northstar and Breckenridge were not even part of the collection. The resort expansion provided increased value to the points I already owned.

 

[Kal]

Until you reserve HRPP or went to CUP by default at 6 month. That inventory is not available for other HRC owner to book
In the decade that I have owned, I have never been to my deeded weeks

If an owner tries to get the unit back from CUP during the HRPP period, it's gone and not retrievable. Your account shows it as gone from HRPP and the points are in CUP. It sounds like you are suggesting it goes to a "never, never land" floating category until 6 months?

 

[Pathways]

the HPP system was built and but did not provide a real incentive to join

Actually, it was a perfect match. A crap incentive for a crap product!