HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[Shankilicious]

Exactly. A little history on Welk. Both the one beds in Palm Desert and the original Welk Villas were sold as fixed weeks. When Villas on the Greens were built those were primarily float weeks, with some flexibility. But the only allowed exchanges were through RCI/II; there were no internal exchanges to other Welk property. (I think Branson sold as float as well). It was not until the discussion about new development in Escondido (Mountain Villas) and Cabo that points were pushed. For the fixed/float week owner, the only way that they could gain access was to purchase or convert to points. Considering the lack of new inventory within the Hyatt system, there is no good reason to convert to only points since every owner had that access already. By bringing Welk aboard and by creating a program where those resorts can only be accessed via a new points program, that might create an incentive to convert to points alone. It was the creation of new and "exclusive" inventory that forced people to move to points.

Branson, Cabo, Tahoe, and now Breck were always points.
But yes, I think they will have to come up with a whole new system to combine the two and they won't "force" any legacy owners to make a change for a long time.

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[jjking42]

Bottom line: Hyatt sold way to many deeded weeks over the years to ever fit in Marriott's pot. In 1994 Hyatt was not thinking about any "Marriott." They were solely interested in what would make their product sell. And those deeded weeks sold well. If you think HRC deed holders are easily going to give up their weeks, you're going to have to " pry them from their dead cold fingers."

I remember when Marriott was only in weeks and the only exchange options was via II. Marriott has been down this road before and they know how to roll out a points program and enroll owners. You need to offer the weeks owners value. In Marriott's case that was less than full week stays, low enrollment costs, access to new resorts, and options to visit other Marriott properties without paying II exchange fees. HRC members already have all those benifts except for the new resorts. I can t see a lot of HRC members enrolling to gain access to Welk. I could see a lot of HRC owners enrolling to gain access to Marriot or Vistana if the points value conversions were fair. But not many are going to give up thier deed to completly convert to HPP or another points only trust program.

I would have enrolled my deeded Marriott week back in the day week except for the Marriott skim. I don't remember the real numbers but as an example Marriott would give me 90 points for my week but would charge a points owner 100 points to book the week they just got from me for 90 points. I was a Wyndham and HGVC points owner at the time and neither of those system had a skim. HGVC and Wyndham was a one to one points system. The amount of points you got for giving up your week was equal to the points that somebody needed to pay to book your week. I viewed the Marriott skim as morally bankrupt and dishonest. If they wanted to make more money on points transactions I would have been ok with higher cash fees but not the skim. I also think they made it overly complicated with all the different point values they assigned the deeded weeks in their system. Their were some clear winners and losers in the points valuation.

In the end Marriott bought back my week for my resale cost and they probably dumped the inventory in the points program along wth evrything they were getting via ROFR.

 

[SueDonJ]

Bottom line: Hyatt sold way to many deeded weeks over the years to ever fit in Marriott's pot. In 1994 Hyatt was not thinking about any "Marriott." They were solely interested in what would make their product sell. And those deeded weeks sold well. If you think HRC deed holders are easily going to give up their weeks, you're going to have to " pry them from their dead cold fingers."

Granted, it's already been acknowledged that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has, since the ILG acquisition that brought Hyatt timeshares under the MVW umbrella, been apparently stymied by unique issues between Hyatt the hotel company and Hyatt timeshares. But it might be helpful to have an understanding of what MVC Weeks owners went through when MVW brought its Points system online. I know, this does nothing to help you figure out what's going to happen with Hyatt/Welk, but I'm putting it here to clear up any misconceptions about MVW's systems.

During all the years of speculation when we knew that there would eventually be a Points system but had no idea of its construct, thousands of existing Marriott Weeks owners said exactly the same things that I bolded above - ie that they'd sold far too many Weeks to ever try to integrate Weeks and Points, that Weeks owners would never give up their Weeks for Points, that Weeks owners wouldn't pay for anything more, etc. As it turned out what they came up with and introduced in 2010 was/is advantageous to many who owned Weeks prior to the DC Points inception, certainly to more than were expected. Basically (and separate from the option of purchasing Marriott Points,) eligible Weeks owners are allowed to enroll their Weeks in the Destination Club Points system for an enrollment fee and a minimal annual Club Dues fee, which allows those owners to use their Weeks in all the same ways they've always been able to use them, PLUS the option of annually electing to exchange their enrolled Week(s) for a stipulated allotment of DC Exchange Points that can be used in the DC Exchange Company and various other options. Enrollment IS NOT a permanent exchange of previously-sold Weeks for the new points product. There are, of course, machinations that require some understanding (which can be found in this TUG thread if you want to dive deep: FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program) but honestly, the enrollment option is working for longtime Weeks owners AND Marriott.

The other thing I'll say is, keep an open mind.

 

[seatrout]

Granted, it's already been acknowledged that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has, since the ILG acquisition that brought Hyatt timeshares under the MVW umbrella, been apparently stymied by unique issues between Hyatt the hotel company and Hyatt timeshares. But it might be helpful to have an understanding of what MVC Weeks owners went through when MVW brought its Points system online. I know, this does nothing to help you figure out what's going to happen with Hyatt/Welk, but I'm putting it here to clear up any misconceptions about MVW's systems.

During all the years of speculation when we knew that there would eventually be a Points system but had no idea of its construct, thousands of existing Marriott Weeks owners said exactly the same things that I bolded above - ie that they'd sold far too many Weeks to ever try to integrate Weeks and Points, that Weeks owners would never give up their Weeks for Points, that Weeks owners wouldn't pay for anything more, etc. As it turned out what they came up with and introduced in 2010 was/is advantageous to many who owned Weeks prior to the DC Points inception, certainly to more than were expected. Basically (and separate from the option of purchasing Marriott Points,) eligible Weeks owners are allowed to enroll their Weeks in the Destination Club Points system for an enrollment fee and a minimal annual Club Dues fee, which allows those owners to use their Weeks in all the same ways they've always been able to use them, PLUS the option of annually electing to exchange their enrolled Week(s) for a stipulated allotment of DC Exchange Points that can be used in the DC Exchange Company and various other options. Enrollment IS NOT a permanent exchange of previously-sold Weeks for the new points product. There are, of course, machinations that require some understanding (which can be found in this TUG thread if you want to dive deep: FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program) but honestly, the enrollment option is working for longtime Weeks owners AND Marriott.

The other thing I'll say is, keep an open mind.

As a long time Marriott Owner, I have enjoyed my Marriott much more with the roll out of the DC. It is much more flexible and easier to do the internal exchange than prior weeks system exchange to II. That being said, I ended up buying more developer points to gain access to the "trust pool" of developer inventory.

On the Hyatt side, wether member here agree it or not, there is value in getting HPP trust points. Is it worth what I paid for?? only time will tell. There seems to be greater "trust pool" compared to "legacy HRC" inventory in typically difficult internal trade such as the ski resorts and Carmel on a simple search. Maybe Hyatt has been buying these up through COVID foreclosure/ROFR. The typical Key West inventory except Sunset are plentiful in both inventory pool. But the more difficult inventory is more plentiful in the HPP Trust pool. I initially brought my Hyatt weeks purely for points-- and have never stayed at my deeded week, I welcome the addition of any new resorts to Hyatt. It would only increase the inventory to choose from. So this merger and having larger trust pool to pick from is a positive.

Loosing the Hyatt name would devalue Hyatt timeshare that have synergy with neighboring Hyatt hotels. This merger would also bring Welk/Hyatt/Marriott/Westin into a common pool in internal trading via II deposits.

 

[heathpack]

Granted, it's already been acknowledged that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has, since the ILG acquisition that brought Hyatt timeshares under the MVW umbrella, been apparently stymied by unique issues between Hyatt the hotel company and Hyatt timeshares. But it might be helpful to have an understanding of what MVC Weeks owners went through when MVW brought its Points system online. I know, this does nothing to help you figure out what's going to happen with Hyatt/Welk, but I'm putting it here to clear up any misconceptions about MVW's systems.

During all the years of speculation when we knew that there would eventually be a Points system but had no idea of its construct, thousands of existing Marriott Weeks owners said exactly the same things that I bolded above - ie that they'd sold far too many Weeks to ever try to integrate Weeks and Points, that Weeks owners would never give up their Weeks for Points, that Weeks owners wouldn't pay for anything more, etc. As it turned out what they came up with and introduced in 2010 was/is advantageous to many who owned Weeks prior to the DC Points inception, certainly to more than were expected. Basically (and separate from the option of purchasing Marriott Points,) eligible Weeks owners are allowed to enroll their Weeks in the Destination Club Points system for an enrollment fee and a minimal annual Club Dues fee, which allows those owners to use their Weeks in all the same ways they've always been able to use them, PLUS the option of annually electing to exchange their enrolled Week(s) for a stipulated allotment of DC Exchange Points that can be used in the DC Exchange Company and various other options. Enrollment IS NOT a permanent exchange of previously-sold Weeks for the new points product. There are, of course, machinations that require some understanding (which can be found in this TUG thread if you want to dive deep: FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program) but honestly, the enrollment option is working for longtime Weeks owners AND Marriott.

The other thing I'll say is, keep an open mind.

I think a number of HRC owners posting in this thread have made the point that if HPP had been rolled out like MVC DP, we would have paid a reasonable enrollment fee, joined HPP and they all parties involved would have the best of both worlds. HPP would have a big pool of HRC folks to sell additional points to, all Hyatt owners (HRC and HPP) would have a common pool of points inventory to access.

MVC used a combo carrot and stick approach when rolling out DP- scare existing owners into buying points because of the fear of losing out on future reservations AND offer them a kinda sweet deal to join the new DC program. HPP on the other hand went for the all stick approach- trying to sell HRC owners HPP not by offering value, but by trying to scare us into believing future reservations will be hard to secure.

I own Marriott and DC points and my take is: expensive system but there's value to be had. It makes sense.
I own Hyatt weeks but no HPP and my take is: HPP expensive system that there's zero chance I'll buy into at the price they want. I'd either use my week, rent it or sell my ownership before I'd buy at the terms I've been offered.

My mind was open when HPP rolled out. And its open now- if HPP decides to offer me value to be a part of their system, I could join. But just continually trying to part me from significant amounts of $ under threat of making my existing ownership "worthless"- nope, not gonna play along with that.

 

[jjking42]

Interesting note about the gifts for taking the Welk presentation yesterday. Typically we never do an owner update or timeshare presentation, but I wanted to see what they had to say about Hyatt Welk deal and I had time to burn since I did not have lift tickets for Sunday. We were offered a $50 gift card and a return voucher for 4 day 3 night stay anywhere in the Welk system except Northstar or 3 days 2 nights at North Star. We used the gift card in the village to buy some ski gloves for my wife yesterday and I just got off the phone with Welk about booking my return stay. You have to wait at least three months from your last tour date to book a return stay at Cabo and 6 months for a return stay at any other resort beside the one you just toured. If you want to go back to the same resort (North Star) the return trip has to be at least 12 months from your last tour. No problem we picked a weekend in February 2022 at North Star. The reservation was for a two bedroom unit and cost $ 99.00 they offered an extra night for $ 135.00 more. Sounded good to me so we paid $ 224.00 for 3 nights in two bedroom at North Star in February 2022. Check in Thursday with a scheduled owner update on Sunday morning. If we want to change dates its free as long as we give the guy a call 21 days in advance and subject to availability.

I will post a resort review in the resort section but I will say that from check in, owner update, and rebooking the return trip were all handled professionally and with very low pressure. You may or may not like the locations or resorts but my expiernce with Welk staff so far has been very good. This was my first experience with anything Welk.

 

[bradj]

As a long time Marriott Owner, I have enjoyed my Marriott much more with the roll out of the DC. It is much more flexible and easier to do the internal exchange than prior weeks system exchange to II. That being said, I ended up buying more developer points to gain access to the "trust pool" of developer inventory.

On the Hyatt side, wether member here agree it or not, there is value in getting HPP trust points. Is it worth what I paid for?? only time will tell. There seems to be greater "trust pool" compared to "legacy HRC" inventory in typically difficult internal trade such as the ski resorts and Carmel on a simple search. Maybe Hyatt has been buying these up through COVID foreclosure/ROFR. The typical Key West inventory except Sunset are plentiful in both inventory pool. But the more difficult inventory is more plentiful in the HPP Trust pool. I initially brought my Hyatt weeks purely for points-- and have never stayed at my deeded week, I welcome the addition of any new resorts to Hyatt. It would only increase the inventory to choose from. So this merger and having larger trust pool to pick from is a positive.

Loosing the Hyatt name would devalue Hyatt timeshare that have synergy with neighboring Hyatt hotels. This merger would also bring Welk/Hyatt/Marriott/Westin into a common pool in internal trading via II deposits.

I too was strictly a points buyer. Bought 3 weeks at separate times. Key West Beach House. Paid retail for my first one (week 9) in 2000. Learned my lesson well. Bought my last one in 2015 (week 20) on e-bay for ten ($10) dollars. Also Beach House. Passed ROFR @10 bucks. Go figure. Never been to my home resort. Couldn't even tell you how to get there. Traded in to Sunset Harbor up to 3 times a year (about 40 times). All high demand weeks. Why would I want to get tangled up in anyone's convoluted points program that even Hyatt's sales staff doesn't understand? Think there is value in HPP points? Buy some and try to sell them. Deeded weeks have at least one thing going for them. A DEED!

 

[seatrout]

At the end of the day, all our timeshare looses value but we gain priceless memories with family. I bought my first Marriott Ski week retail but everything else resale except developer points to play the game. I also bought Beach House week 9 via resale in the 2000 when it was worth real money.

Buying HPP points is not about buying value that can be sold in the future. Nor is it due to the threat of HRC becoming worthless. It is about making my existing HRC inventory more easier to use and flexible. I had been saying no HPP for years. This year with all the COVID restrictions, the Marriott portfolio was easy to manage due to banking, booking and--- canceling was an ease with Marriott. I had to cancel/rebook/cancel/rebook my Hyatt Aspen week several time with Hyatt. (Aspen keep changing their rule with COVID). Hate the Hyatt fees of each. When I learn that I can now bank my Hyatt point and get rid some of the fees, it made HPP more attractive. The rules with Hyatt is still much more complicated than Marriott.

 

[Sapper]

On Hyatt's website, the HRC Rules and Regulations that I could find ended with page #29 with 6.9. Can you tell me where I can access a #7 section? Also the Legal Terms and Conditions page appears to now be a one page disclaimer page with no way to open the actual document. Both docs used to be readily available online. Need some help here.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[bradj]

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Actually, I'm looking for the Hyatt Residence Club (HRC) terms and conditions that were available in the past on it's website. The highlighted link is a Public Offering Ststement for Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio (HPC) I've got a new customer service direct line. I'll give them a try. Thanks for your help.

 

[normab]

OMG. I’m late to this picnic. But here’s my perspective. We’ve stayed at 2 Hyatts, 2 Sheratons, and one Welk resort. And many ( 20+ years) of other exchanges in Hawaii and the Caribbean that we really enjoyed even if not Marriott quality. By far the best was the Welk resort we stayed at. I think this is a great acquisition based on 22 years of time sharing with exchanges.

 

[Tenga]

NOTHING MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID ABOUT HPP FALLACY "I'll just get on the inventory wait list". CLUB RULES STATE:

(5) HVGG may limit the size and duration of a particular Request List or Wait List in order to minimize Club Member expectations and maximize satisfaction levels.

How many are/were aware of this? Anyone see 55 thousand new Welk members beating out pre - merger HPP members???? If I was a current HPP member, I'd be fighting like @ell to maintain a separate HPP wait list that Welk would have no access too. HRC is a smaller member club merging with a larger Welk club. Who's gonna get the squeeze???

Tenga

 

[dmelcher13]

I think these might be the HRC docs you are looking for.

Dave

 

[bdh]

If I was a current HPP member, I'd be fighting like @ell to maintain a separate HPP wait list that Welk would have no access too. HRC is a smaller member club merging with a larger Welk club. Who's gonna get the squeeze???

Tenga

It's the Golden Rule: the guy with the gold makes the rules - and the Trust has all the gold. HPP owners don't have a platform or standing to say anything about anything - neither do the Welk points owners. The only thing points buyers have is a piece of paper that isn't even good for toilet paper.

 

[Sapper]

Actually, I'm looking for the Hyatt Residence Club (HRC) terms and conditions that were available in the past on it's website. The highlighted link is a Public Offering Ststement for Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio (HPC) I've got a new customer service direct line. I'll give them a try. Thanks for your help.

Ah, sorry, I was tired when I added that and mis read.

 

[heathpack]

NOTHING MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID ABOUT HPP FALLACY "I'll just get on the inventory wait list". CLUB RULES STATE:

(5) HVGG may limit the size and duration of a particular Request List or Wait List in order to minimize Club Member expectations and maximize satisfaction levels.

How many are/were aware of this? Anyone see 55 thousand new Welk members beating out pre - merger HPP members???? If I was a current HPP member, I'd be fighting like @ell to maintain a separate HPP wait list that Welk would have no access too. HRC is a smaller member club merging with a larger Welk club. Who's gonna get the squeeze???

Tenga

Im getting confused. What entity is HVGG?

 

[dioxide45]

Im getting confused. What entity is HVGG?

From the disclosure guide;

HVGG shall mean HV Global Group, Inc., a Delaware corporation. HVGG is an exchange company registered pursuant to applicable law for the purpose of offering exchange and reservation services and related vacation and travel benefits to Club Members at Club Resorts.

Basically it is the exchange company that facilitates the HRC club that is used for exchange services.

 

[heathpack]

From the disclosure guide;

HVGG shall mean HV Global Group, Inc., a Delaware corporation. HVGG is an exchange company registered pursuant to applicable law for the purpose of offering exchange and reservation services and related vacation and travel benefits to Club Members at Club Resorts.

Basically it is the exchange company that facilitates the HRC club that is used for exchange services.

Thanks, theres not enough hours in the day to read it all.

 

[ivywag]

Thanks, theres not enough hours in the day to read it all.

That’s what they’re counting on.

 

[Tenga]

Can any Welk owners confim this?

I have seen since the announcement by Marriott to merge Welk into HRC. Welk is offering or it may be coming from MVC offering all Welk owners to take back membership with no $$ money to the owner in a buy back? With the stipulation that all current MF's paid on contract. Another question? Has Welk offered this buy back in the past?

Thank you,
Tenga

 

[Kal]

Can any Welk owners confim this?

I have seen since the announcement by Marriott to merge Welk into HRC. Welk is offering or it may be coming from MVC offering all Welk owners to take back membership with no $$ money to the owner in a buy back? With the stipulation that all current MF's paid on contract. Another question? Has Welk offered this buy back in the past?

Thank you,
Tenga

That tells me they want "free units" to dump into HPP without having to deal with deeded owners. Hyatt has to somehow increase the HPP Trust inventory that isn't subject to annual decision making by HRC/HPP owners. It also might offer some bait to HRC owners to buy into the HPP scam.

 

[Shankilicious]

I made a call to Welk today. They told me there is NO buyback program but there is a possible give back program where owners who have retail ownership paid off and current year VOAs paid are eligible for Welk to CONSIDER taking back their ownership. If accepted, the owner will have to pay $795 to give their ownership back to Welk.

I've heard of buyback programs in the past but, like the current one from Responsible Exit company, I beleive they're just third party companies that Welk has agreed to work with.

I've got a call and email into Responsible Exit and they advised one of their realtors will get back with me shortly.

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[dioxide45]

According to the Q4 earnings call, they are expecting the Welk resorts to be mainly rebranded to HRC by the end of 2021 with completion by first quarter 2022. The current RCI affiliation expires in 2022 after which they will reaffiliate it with II.

 

[MillieG]

In the other timeshares forum. I made a huge post explaining as much about Welk as possible.
Welk is 99% points. Very few deeded/fixed weeks exist and they've been offering a premium to fixed week owners to convert them to points. MFs are similar so I'm curious/anxious/annoyed at this acquisition.....

Hi - I'd be interested in reading your other post - what other forum is it in please? Or could you provide a link?
Thanks!

 

[Mongoose]

I made a call to Welk today. They told me there is NO buyback program but there is a possible give back program where owners who have retail ownership paid off and current year VOAs paid are eligible for Welk to CONSIDER taking back their ownership. If accepted, the owner will have to pay $795 to give their ownership back to Welk.

I've heard of buyback programs in the past but, like the current one from Responsible Exit company, I beleive they're just third party companies that Welk has agreed to work with.

I've got a call and email into Responsible Exit and they advised one of their realtors will get back with me shortly.

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Pay $795 to give back your unit so they can resell it for $40K. That takes some nerve.