HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[Shankilicious]

Two things about this:
1- that is quite cheap for that many points. I paid near $40k for half that in 2015/17 and they've recently been selling 120k every other year points for $19k. So read into that what you will but that makes me think change has already been planned or mentioned to the sales people that does not bode well for Welk. Or the sales team is worried they'll lose their job soon and are selling as much as they can as quickly as they can.
2. It's very common for sales people to be taught that their product is worth a lot and that the company will exercise ROFR at a "good" or "reasonable" price even though it's educated TS owners know the truth.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[RunCat]

Two things about this:
1- that is quite cheap for that many points. I paid near $40k for half that in 2015/17 and they've recently been selling 120k every other year points for $19k.

Agreed. That quantity of points, in early 2020, was about twice that price. So, two things 1) Covid pricing and 2) Hyatt uncertainty pricing. Due to these two things, I would suspect discount pricing until things are finalized. It may be a good time to get inexpensive developer prices. Or to get cheaper resale prices.
Re: bad for Welk: IMO, still too early to say; but the program will definitely not be the same. And, I will make sure that I continue to plan and use my points as I intended. At this point, there is lots of conjecture with little information. Regardless of what happens, at the end of the day, some people will be unhappy. But, as the salesperson stated, the rebranding is likely good for the Welk product and, based on what I am reading here, perceived to be bad for the current Hyatt product.

 

[dioxide45]

[Thank you! Edited for thread clean-up. The questions from @DayTraveler and replies have been moved to this thread: Welk Sale.] <-- SueDonJ

 

[Tenga]

Why would Hyatt want out? They don't own the resorts or the business, they just get free cash for HRC to put it's name on the resorts and sell the product. Much the same way all the other timeshare brands are doing it today. It isn't a monkey on the back of Hyatt Hotels, they have very little risk and all the reward.

Why would Hyatt care to stay in? This merger nothing but a big headache for Hyatt inc. Other then the franchasise fee? Big deal!!! Nothing but a liability for Hyatt inc.

You think the Hyatt Aspen owners lawsuit, this will dwarf the future club owners legal suits being brought in the courts both side of the isle if this merger goes through. Hyatt legal dept is well aware of this.

Finally this year" 2021" Hyatt can rid its self for ever, move on! This is a one and life time event to wash its hand and walk away. It may never see this opportunity again. Hyatt has a corporate image to maintain. How does this merger effect its image/brand? This, in its self is a huge gamble for HYATT. Very risky for HYATT to entrust MVC in the roll out. Its not Marriott name being put in the spot light but Hyatt name and brand. I would love to be the fly on the wall at Hyatt board of directors meeting when it makes its decision. Stay in or Get out? What are the odd's? Smart bet is a vote out. Either way end of June we'll know.


Regards,
Tenga

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I have a question for all of the Hyatt experts. I have a diamond - 2,200 point week at Hyatt Beach House. Lately, I have done internal Hyatt exchange from Beach House to Coconut Plantation and I love this feature and hope it does not go away.

I want to always keep my week that I purchased and not convert to whatever new program Hyatt will come up with for this Welk merger. Does anyone think that Hyatt will force us to go to portfolio points?

 

[Kal]

...I want to always keep my week that I purchased and not convert to whatever new program Hyatt will come up with for this Welk merger. Does anyone think that Hyatt will force us to go to portfolio points?

IMHO, there is little if any chance that Hyatt will force HRC owners to join the HPP. Remember, the entrance fee is $13,000. If any HRC members were interested, they would have already paid the ransom. Even then, for those HRC members who did join, they still preserved their owned week as that transfer decision is made annually. Otherwise HRC owners like you do not want to give up the HRC program. If the entrance price was severely slashed to maybe $1,000, that would definitely encourage the signup. That would occur immediately after we see pigs flying overhead.

If anything, HRC owners will see a one-way demand increase due to Welk. For me, I have no interest in any of the Welk "weeks" resorts. Northstar would be interesting, but it will be priced out of the market and by far not available.

 

[Tenga]

THE MATH NEVER LIES
For all my comrades in HRC/Welk licking you chops thinking this is going to be the best thing since sliced bread! Keep in mind that HRC was formed in 1994 selling weeks. Every single property it built was selling Weeks. HRC then in 2017 started selling "Points" now known as HPP. Think about this and try to wrap your mind around it.

From 1994 to 2017 that's 23 years this company has been selling weeks exclusively. Its only had 5 years as of todays date to try to come up with enough inventory to make this house of cards game work. Your all smart people you do the math. 23 years of selling weeks. Then rolling out a new program from deeded weeks to points. Well it first needed to set up and form a trust and get these trust's regulated in the state its set up to operate in. Next it had the tromououls task of acquiring and depositing the weeks into the trust to make it legal to sell. This disaster roll out were Hyatt assumed its deeded weeks owner would embrace and jump at the chance of a lifetime to spend another $13 thousand to play Hyatt game. Deeded weeks owners balked! "There always a few willing to part with there money suckers that fell for this pipe dream" new points system but not many, most see and saw the bigger picture "WHY" bother what I have works for me no need to spend $$$ for something I neither want or need!

See the problem for integration for you Welk owners? Your all points that will be squeezed out of inventory that just not available in the HRC system designed for weeks.

MVC can't fake the math in this merger on the Hyatt inventory side, Its just not there for your 55,000+ points members.

Club Rules:

7.1 Exchange and Reservation Rules. Subject to Section 7.3 below, the following provisions shall govern the rights of HRC Owners to exchange reservation rights in the HRC Club for reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club and the rights of HPC Trust Members to exchange reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club for reservation rights in the HRC Club:


HRC Owners are advised that during the HPC Trust Priority Period, HRC Owners and HPC Trust Members have only limited rights to reserve the Vacation Periods in the HPC Trust
Club.

b. Exchange of HPC Trust Reservation Rights for HRC Inventory. The HRC Club and the HPC Trust are separate reservation systems. HVGG presently operates the reservation systems for both the HRC Club and the HPC Trust.

Regards,
Tenga

 

[dmelcher13]

IMHO, there is little if any chance that Hyatt will force HRC owners to join the HPP. Remember, the entrance fee is $13,000. If any HRC members were interested, they would have already paid the ransom. Even then, for those HRC members who did join, they still preserved their owned week as that transfer decision is made annually. Otherwise HRC owners like you do not want to give up the HRC program. If the entrance price was severely slashed to maybe $1,000, that would definitely encourage the signup. That would occur immediately after we see pigs flying overhead.

If anything, HRC owners will see a one-way demand increase due to Welk. For me, I have no interest in any of the Welk "weeks" resorts. Northstar would be interesting, but it will be priced out of the market and by far not available.

I have heard of some owners "trading in" their owned week(s) and moving entirely to HPP. I assume in these cases their deeds were sold to the HPP trust. They'd then use the trade-in value plus cash for the purchase of their HPP points.


Dave

 

[bdh]

I have a question for all of the Hyatt experts. I have a diamond - 2,200 point week at Hyatt Beach House. Lately, I have done internal Hyatt exchange from Beach House to Coconut Plantation and I love this feature and hope it does not go away.

I want to always keep my week that I purchased and not convert to whatever new program Hyatt will come up with for this Welk merger. Does anyone think that Hyatt will force us to go to portfolio points?

I'm thinking that it's pretty close to impossible for Hyatt to make you convert your deeded BH week to HPP points. The use of your deeded BH week is guaranteed in HRRP - however internal exchanges to other Hyatt properties is not guaranteed. But Hyatt might be able to entice you to convert your deeded BH week to HPP points if that was the only way you could exchange into CP or other properties. If you're happy/content to use your deeded BH week, you're in a very good position.

 

[nuwermj]

If the entrance price was severely slashed to maybe $1,000, that would definitely encourage the signup.

Since HRC owners have the ability to exchange into other HRC resorts, what benefits are HPP offering? What would a HRC owner get for the $1,000?

 

[jjking42]

Regardless of what happens the smart owners (Tug Members) will reshuffle their time share portfolio if needed to get the best use of their ownership. That is why most of us own multiple weeks in some cases in multiple systems. I used to own Marriott and HGVC but they don't fit my needs right now. I used to own a bunch of independent resorts with low MF and strong RCI trading power but full weeks don't fit my lifestyle anymore. I used to always need two bedroom units during prime seasons ( school breaks etc) but now I am happy in a one bedroom and can travel anytime of year. Right now the best bang for me is deeded week based points so I can do short stays etc, but if they screw up the internal points trading I will still be happy using the underlying deeded weeks. Except may be SVV that one I would sell if i could not use it as Star options. I would be fine going to Hyatt Pinion Point every year if it came to that and if I got tired of it I could easly sell it since I bought it resale.

 

[bdh]

THE MATH NEVER LIES

See the problem for integration for you Welk owners? Your all points that will be squeezed out of inventory that just not available in the HRC system designed for weeks.

MVC can't fake the math in this merger on the Hyatt inventory side, Its just not there for your 55,000+ points members.

I'm not following the math you're teaching. Once Welk Trust weeks are placed into the Hyatt Trust, there will be one big PILE of Trust points - and since Hyatt can't sell more points than are in the Trust, there will be availability. It just might not be at the desired location that everyone wants.

IE: Lots of people like to go to Key West where there's 3 Hyatt properties. However, the majority of people prefer Sunset Harbor over Beach House and Windward Pointe - but with only 40 units at SH and 170 units at BH and WP, not everyone is going to get into SH. What compounds the issue is that SH is 95% deeded week owners - so until a SH deeded week owner relinquishes their HRPP week, all the HPP points owners are chasing 5% of the SH units. The good news for HPP points owners, there's a fair amount of Hyatt Trust inventory at BH and boat loads of Trust inventory at WP.

Note: I know there are some BH and WP owners that prefer BH and WP over SH - however the majority of Hyatt owners prefer SH.

 

[dioxide45]

THE MATH NEVER LIES
For all my comrades in HRC/Welk licking you chops thinking this is going to be the best thing since sliced bread! Keep in mind that HRC was formed in 1994 selling weeks. Every single property it built was selling Weeks. HRC then in 2017 started selling "Points" now known as HPP. Think about this and try to wrap your mind around it.

From 1994 to 2017 that's 23 years this company has been selling weeks exclusively. Its only had 5 years as of todays date to try to come up with enough inventory to make this house of cards game work. Your all smart people you do the math. 23 years of selling weeks. Then rolling out a new program from deeded weeks to points. Well it first needed to set up and form a trust and get these trust's regulated in the state its set up to operate in. Next it had the tromououls task of acquiring and depositing the weeks into the trust to make it legal to sell. This disaster roll out were Hyatt assumed its deeded weeks owner would embrace and jump at the chance of a lifetime to spend another $13 thousand to play Hyatt game. Deeded weeks owners balked! "There always a few willing to part with there money suckers that fell for this pipe dream" new points system but not many, most see and saw the bigger picture "WHY" bother what I have works for me no need to spend $$$ for something I neither want or need!

See the problem for integration for you Welk owners? Your all points that will be squeezed out of inventory that just not available in the HRC system designed for weeks.

MVC can't fake the math in this merger on the Hyatt inventory side, Its just not there for your 55,000+ points members.

Club Rules:

7.1 Exchange and Reservation Rules. Subject to Section 7.3 below, the following provisions shall govern the rights of HRC Owners to exchange reservation rights in the HRC Club for reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club and the rights of HPC Trust Members to exchange reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club for reservation rights in the HRC Club:


HRC Owners are advised that during the HPC Trust Priority Period, HRC Owners and HPC Trust Members have only limited rights to reserve the Vacation Periods in the HPC Trust
Club.

b. Exchange of HPC Trust Reservation Rights for HRC Inventory. The HRC Club and the HPC Trust are separate reservation systems. HVGG presently operates the reservation systems for both the HRC Club and the HPC Trust.

Regards,
Tenga

That could very well be possible. If it does go down that way, I am sure Marriott Vacations Worldwide would be okay with the move as it would give them a lot more freedom to do with those Welk and Hyatt properties as they wish. They could rebrande them as Marriott, Sheraton or Westin Vacation Clubs and work them into their integrated program that they say they have been working on to merge Vistana with Marriott Vacation Club.

 

[nuwermj]

That could very well be possible. If it does go down that way, I am sure Marriott Vacations Worldwide would be okay with the move as it would give them a lot more freedom to do with those Welk and Hyatt properties as they wish. They could rebrande them as Marriott, Sheraton or Westin Vacation Clubs and work them into their integrated program that they say they have been working on to merge Vistana with Marriott Vacation Club.

Do you have any idea why Marriott Vacations doesn't take the initiative now and cancel their contract with Hyatt Hotels? That, then, would allow MVC to do with Welk and Hyatt as they wish.

 

[nuwermj]

THE MATH NEVER LIES

Perhaps this is why the Marriott execs in their investor presentation de-emphasized incremental sales and emphasized new customers. Those execs were very clear: they want to sell Welk to the Hyatt hotel costumers.

 

[bdh]

Since HRC owners have the ability to exchange into other HRC resorts, what benefits are HPP offering? What would a HRC owner get for the $1,000?

Hyatt touts the flexibility of the HPP system and "promotes" better access to Hyatt properties - the HRC owners that have bought into HPP have done so for those reasons. HPP is more flexible than HRC, however based on HRC/HPP owner comments to date, HPP has not provided better access to hard to get Hyatt properties.

So there isn't much of a reason for an HRC owner to buy HPP - so with the buy in to HPP being $13K, sales have not been as robust as Hyatt/Marriott would like. Once Hyatt/Marriott has properties that are HPP exclusive, there would be more motivation for HRC owners to buy HPP.

 

[dioxide45]

Realize, HPP was dreamt up under ILG. Had Marriott had their hand in it from the beginning, perhaps the rollout would have been like the Marriott DC program was, with an enrollment option. THe problem was that Hyatt already had a points program, there is really no reason for anyone to even enroll, unless enrollment allows for banking and borrowing. Not sure if HRC allows that right now. They could easily allow it if they wanted to, but the system is pretty small and there isn't a lot of slack in the system that is a requirement for banking and borrowing.

 

[seatrout]

There is good synergy between many of the Hyatt Timeshare and Hyatt hotel. At least in San Antonio, Wild Oak Ranch get to use the wave pool at Hyatt Hill country. We also go over the hotel side and eat and spend money. Hyatt would likely hate to have a Marriott sign on the Timeshare unit next to the hotel side. So I do not see real need for Hyatt to get out, if it get free advertizing and potential business.

Realize, HPP was dreamt up under ILG. Had Marriott had their hand in it from the beginning, perhaps the rollout would have been like the Marriott DC program was, with an enrollment option. THe problem was that Hyatt already had a points program, there is really no reason for anyone to even enroll, unless enrollment allows for banking and borrowing. Not sure if HRC allows that right now. They could easily allow it if they wanted to, but the system is pretty small and there isn't a lot of slack in the system that is a requirement for banking and borrowing.

When Marriott rollout the DC program, they gave Marriott TS owners two options. Enroll to convert the weeks to point program. Scare tactic to buy additional Trust point so that you can have access to the Trust pool of "new resorts" and get higher level for flexibility of banking/borrowing.

Since Hyatt already have point system, the game was to buy into the HPP trust pool. Problem was the trust pool did not have any real inventory of "new resorts"

 

[bradj]

THE MATH NEVER LIES
For all my comrades in HRC/Welk licking you chops thinking this is going to be the best thing since sliced bread! Keep in mind that HRC was formed in 1994 selling weeks. Every single property it built was selling Weeks. HRC then in 2017 started selling "Points" now known as HPP. Think about this and try to wrap your mind around it.

From 1994 to 2017 that's 23 years this company has been selling weeks exclusively. Its only had 5 years as of todays date to try to come up with enough inventory to make this house of cards game work. Your all smart people you do the math. 23 years of selling weeks. Then rolling out a new program from deeded weeks to points. Well it first needed to set up and form a trust and get these trust's regulated in the state its set up to operate in. Next it had the tromououls task of acquiring and depositing the weeks into the trust to make it legal to sell. This disaster roll out were Hyatt assumed its deeded weeks owner would embrace and jump at the chance of a lifetime to spend another $13 thousand to play Hyatt game. Deeded weeks owners balked! "There always a few willing to part with there money suckers that fell for this pipe dream" new points system but not many, most see and saw the bigger picture "WHY" bother what I have works for me no need to spend $$$ for something I neither want or need!

See the problem for integration for you Welk owners? Your all points that will be squeezed out of inventory that just not available in the HRC system designed for weeks.

MVC can't fake the math in this merger on the Hyatt inventory side, Its just not there for your 55,000+ points members.

Club Rules:

7.1 Exchange and Reservation Rules. Subject to Section 7.3 below, the following provisions shall govern the rights of HRC Owners to exchange reservation rights in the HRC Club for reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club and the rights of HPC Trust Members to exchange reservation rights in the HPC Trust Club for reservation rights in the HRC Club:


HRC Owners are advised that during the HPC Trust Priority Period, HRC Owners and HPC Trust Members have only limited rights to reserve the Vacation Periods in the HPC Trust
Club.

b. Exchange of HPC Trust Reservation Rights for HRC Inventory. The HRC Club and the HPC Trust are separate reservation systems. HVGG presently operates the reservation systems for both the HRC Club and the HPC Trust.

Regards,
Tenga

On Hyatt's website, the HRC Rules and Regulations that I could find ended with page #29 with 6.9. Can you tell me where I can access a #7 section? Also the Legal Terms and Conditions page appears to now be a one page disclaimer page with no way to open the actual document. Both docs used to be readily available online. Need some help here.

 

[Kal]

Since HRC owners have the ability to exchange into other HRC resorts, what benefits are HPP offering? What would a HRC owner get for the $1,000?

Hmmm, that's a great question. Aside from getting a ticket to the HPP Clown Show, there may be some advantage in stretching out the points calendar and booking shorter stays. The down side is an HRC owner would have to give up their unit. Give up multiple units to get into a useable HPP Tier. The worst element is having reduced booking opportunities due to the crummy HPP Trust inventory. Also, that $1,000 is gone forever as there is no HPP resale.

 

[RunCat]

Hyatt touts the flexibility of the HPP system and "promotes" better access to Hyatt properties - the HRC owners that have bought into HPP have done so for those reasons. HPP is more flexible than HRC, however based on HRC/HPP owner comments to date, HPP has not provided better access to hard to get Hyatt properties.

So there isn't much of a reason for an HRC owner to buy HPP - so with the buy in to HPP being $13K, sales have not been as robust as Hyatt/Marriott would like. Once Hyatt/Marriott has properties that are HPP exclusive, there would be more motivation for HRC owners to buy HPP.

Exactly. A little history on Welk. Both the one beds in Palm Desert and the original Welk Villas were sold as fixed weeks. When Villas on the Greens were built those were primarily float weeks, with some flexibility. But the only allowed exchanges were through RCI/II; there were no internal exchanges to other Welk property. (I think Branson sold as float as well). It was not until the discussion about new development in Escondido (Mountain Villas) and Cabo that points were pushed. For the fixed/float week owner, the only way that they could gain access was to purchase or convert to points. Considering the lack of new inventory within the Hyatt system, there is no good reason to convert to only points since every owner had that access already. By bringing Welk aboard and by creating a program where those resorts can only be accessed via a new points program, that might create an incentive to convert to points alone. It was the creation of new and "exclusive" inventory that forced people to move to points.

 

[bradj]

Why would Hyatt care to stay in? This merger nothing but a big headache for Hyatt inc. Other then the franchasise fee? Big deal!!! Nothing but a liability for Hyatt inc.

You think the Hyatt Aspen owners lawsuit, this will dwarf the future club owners legal suits being brought in the courts both side of the isle if this merger goes through. Hyatt legal dept is well aware of this.

Finally this year" 2021" Hyatt can rid its self for ever, move on! This is a one and life time event to wash its hand and walk away. It may never see this opportunity again. Hyatt has a corporate image to maintain. How does this merger effect its image/brand? This, in its self is a huge gamble for HYATT. Very risky for HYATT to entrust MVC in the roll out. Its not Marriott name being put in the spot light but Hyatt name and brand. I would love to be the fly on the wall at Hyatt board of directors meeting when it makes its decision. Stay in or Get out? What are the odd's? Smart bet is a vote out. Either way end of June we'll know.


Regards,
Tenga

Bottom line: Hyatt sold way to many deeded weeks over the years to ever fit in Marriott's pot. In 1994 Hyatt was not thinking about any "Marriott." They were solely interested in what would make their product sell. And those deeded weeks sold well. If you think HRC deed holders are easily going to give up their weeks, you're going to have to " pry them from their dead cold fingers."

 

[Kal]

I have heard of some owners "trading in" their owned week(s) and moving entirely to HPP. I assume in these cases their deeds were sold to the HPP trust. They'd then use the trade-in value plus cash for the purchase of their HPP points.

If so the HRC owner would be tendering an asset which has resale value for a handful of points that have no resale value. Of course that would be one way to save real $$$ from their wallet.

 

[dioxide45]

There is good synergy between many of the Hyatt Timeshare and Hyatt hotel. At least in San Antonio, Wild Oak Ranch get to use the wave pool at Hyatt Hill country. We also go over the hotel side and eat and spend money. Hyatt would likely hate to have a Marriott sign on the Timeshare unit next to the hotel side. So I do not see real need for Hyatt to get out, if it get free advertizing and potential business.

That is a good point about co-located properties and why it doesn't seem like it would be so easy for Hyatt Hotels to "wash its hand and walk away" as @Tenga seems to like to imply.

 

[Kal]

Bottom line: Hyatt sold way to many deeded weeks over the years to ever fit in Marriott's pot. In 1994 Hyatt was not thinking about any "Marriott." They were solely interested in what would make their product sell. And those deeded weeks sold well. If you think HRC deed holders are easily going to give up their weeks, you're going to have to " pry them from their dead cold fingers."

BOY, YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! Except, what did P.T. Barnum say: "There's a sucker born every minute."