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How many of the Wyndham Resorts are not managed by Wyndham and what impact does that have on owners?

paxsarah

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If you have seen this in your recent time on the forum, I would be very interested to learn who you think works for Wyndham out of the active posters.

Another sign of insanity is repeating the same question many times after it has been answered. Honestly, do you need that much attention?
Has it though? This is a different question that I asked earlier. Perhaps a sign of insanity (or obstinance, or disingenuousness) is ignoring that by using the word "who" here I was asking for names (i.e. usernames). And that by "recent" and "active posters" I meant in the year 2023. Did you post names of current users you believe are Wyndham employees and I missed it?

You don't have to answer the question, obviously. But saying that you answered a different question is not answering this question.

I'll concede that I may be insane for asking the question when it now seems clear it was never going to be answered.
 

schreff

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For a statement to be libelous, it must be demonstrably false. Calling a Wyndham salesperson a Wyndham salesperson doesn't meet that requirement.

There goes your reason for not stating the name of the person you suspect of being a Wyndham salesperson. Unless, of course, you are wron
Your knowledge of the law or lack thereof is not accurate. Libel is more more complicated than that; perhaps, you should read the definition in Black's Legal Dictionary or take the bar exam. Also, most folks know that many legal actions begin with no basis in fact (law or statute).

The world today is full of nasty people who are just looking to be critical about anything anyone says. It is pitiful. Why not just address the topic as I have fully explained this many times.
 

schreff

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Has it though? This is a different question that I asked earlier. Perhaps a sign of insanity (or obstinance, or disingenuousness) is ignoring that by using the word "who" here I was asking for names (i.e. usernames). And that by "recent" and "active posters" I meant in the year 2023. Did you post names of current users you believe are Wyndham employees and I missed it?

You don't have to answer the question, obviously. But saying that you answered a different question is not answering this question.

I'll concede that I may be insane for asking the question when it now seems clear it was never goin
See below
 
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schreff

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Why are you cross examining me? Again, I have no idea of who but it seems to be obvious to many that there are some who have motives there than contributing facts.

Is it really important to you or is harassing someone who is attempting to present a topic of importance your goal. You and others are doing your best to hijack it with nonsense. There must be a valid reason. Please elaborate.

Do you really believe that there is not one person associated with Wyndham directly or indirectly who has presently and in the past been a member or guest on the TUG discussion group?
 

chapjim

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Your knowledge of the law or lack thereof is not accurate. Libel is more more complicated than that; perhaps, you should read the definition in Black's Legal Dictionary or take the bar exam. Also, most folks know that many legal actions begin with no basis in fact (law or statute).

The world today is full of nasty people who are just looking to be critical about anything anyone says. It is pitiful. Why not just address the topic as I have fully explained this many times.
I've done both, thank you.

I'll stick with my statement that you can't libel someone if you say something about him/her that is true. Show me how that is wrong.

You are the one who brought up the subject of libel, straying from the topic. I just pointed out your error.
 

troy12n

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I think you have said your peace and even normally passive and compassionate people have now taken a position against your obviously false rants. Why don't you just go away and enjoy your newly found platinum membership in peace... or exit ownership completely. None of us care either way, and we don't care for your lies and deceit anymore. And speaking for myself, i'm tired of it.

As they say in the biz... Bye Felecia!
 

Eric B

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Hmmmm, should I use the ignore function or make some popcorn…?
 

Eric B

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Eric B

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As a VIP owner I would expect you to know it to be real butter only please!
Well, based on recent information posted by a longtime reliable tugger in this thread, you will need to buy another 154K to renew your VIP status to get the real butter! ;)

 

WManning

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LO
Well, based on recent information posted by a longtime reliable tugger in this thread, you will need to buy another 154K to renew your VIP status to get the real butter! ;)

LOL sounds like you work for Wyndham. Haha!
 

OutSkiing

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It would be good to see Wyndham create a customer retention department that has special options available to offer to owners who fall under these use cases. They may already have such an area - I just may not be aware of it.
They do have that. When we were negatively impacted by our bi-ennial contracts being valued for VIP benefits at half point value it knocked us from Founders to Platinum. That was after a very recent purchase we had made to get us to founders (and to own Midtown a relatively low maintainence fee property).

After a months long period of scheduled conversations with this special customer service team, they offered us a sale that took us back to Founders for quite a bit less than the corporate developer points rate. They knew we had gotten a rotten deal so they bent over backwards to help. We might have lucked out because Midtown seems to be trust-like so they could easily assemble a new Midtown contract by drawing any number of points from that pool that we needed to build a bigger Midtown contract.

Bob
 

paxsarah

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Do you really believe that there is not one person associated with Wyndham directly or indirectly who has presently and in the past been a member or guest on the TUG discussion group?
As I said...
I would be surprised if we haven’t had lurkers/surveillance from Wyndham over the years.
...but also...
I personally don't get a sense that any of our active posters have a current or former employment relationship to Wyndham (other than the former salesperson who disclosed his status in his first post).
...which is why I was wondering which of our current active posters you thought had an employment relationship with Wyndham. It really is just curiosity.
 

schreff

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As I said...

...but also...

...which is why I was wondering which of our current active posters you thought had an employment relationship with Wyndham. It really is just curiosity.
To the best of my knowledge, I have never mentioned the conflict of having a direct employment relationship with Wyndham although this would not surprise me. I have mentioned conflicts of interest either direct or indirect which encompasses many things including having a contract with Wyndham.
Sorry I don't have a crystal ball and have consistently said that the Wyndham person who was unmasked on the TUG forum years ago only had an alias which I do not recall. I have no idea what else would satisfy your curiosity but I do know this has gone off topic for a long time. I also know that anyone who cannot see that there are Wyndies posting here with no other objective than support Wyndham for reasons we will never know are disillusioned. This is fact and I have nothing more to offer on this off topic subject.
 

schreff

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They do have that. When we were negatively impacted by our bi-ennial contracts being valued for VIP benefits at half point value it knocked us from Founders to Platinum. That was after a very recent purchase we had made to get us to founders (and to own Midtown a relatively low maintainence fee property).

After a months long period of scheduled conversations with this special customer service team, they offered us a sale that took us back to Founders for quite a bit less than the corporate developer points rate. They knew we had gotten a rotten deal so they bent over backwards to help. We might have lucked out because Midtown seems to be trust-like so they could easily assemble a new Midtown contract by drawing any number of points from that pool that we needed to build a bigger Midtown contract.

Bob
We ran into the same situation and have many other problems with Wyndham which we never had in the past. At our age it is not smart to buy more points to get back to Founders so we are stuck at Platinum. It appears that many other Legacy owners we will have or had the same situation arise so it doesn't look good.
Good luck and glad you made it back to Founders.
 

Eric B

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To the best of my knowledge, I have never mentioned the conflict of having a direct employment relationship with Wyndham although this would not surprise me. I have mentioned conflicts of interest either direct or indirect which encompasses many things including having a contract with Wyndham.
Sorry I don't have a crystal ball and have consistently said that the Wyndham person who was unmasked on the TUG forum years ago only had an alias which I do not recall. I have no idea what else would satisfy your curiosity but I do know this has gone off topic for a long time. I also know that anyone who cannot see that there are Wyndies posting here with no other objective than support Wyndham for reasons we will never know are disillusioned. This is fact and I have nothing more to offer on this off topic subject.
My guess is that over 95% of the posters in the Club Wyndham Plus forum have contracts with Wyndham — I have 9 myself. Those contracts obligate me to make monthly payments to them and follow the program guidelines, while obligating Wyndham to provide me services to reserve lodging, etc.
There are a quite a few people further along the spectrum of Wyndham fanhood on either side of me, including some that I would call rabid supporters. There are many on the other end of the spectrum, too. Their having different perspectives than I do does not strike me as creating a conflict of interest. But it is all in how you interpret things. I find that I can learn from both the megarenters and the fans—YMMV.
 
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HitchHiker71

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Your knowledge of the law or lack thereof is not accurate. Libel is more more complicated than that; perhaps, you should read the definition in Black's Legal Dictionary or take the bar exam. Also, most folks know that many legal actions begin with no basis in fact (law or statute).

The world today is full of nasty people who are just looking to be critical about anything anyone says. It is pitiful. Why not just address the topic as I have fully explained this many times.

You probably don't realize that @chapjim is an attorney. Perhaps you should quit while you're behind here - that is my non-legal advice of course. :cool:
 

HitchHiker71

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They do have that. When we were negatively impacted by our bi-ennial contracts being valued for VIP benefits at half point value it knocked us from Founders to Platinum. That was after a very recent purchase we had made to get us to founders (and to own Midtown a relatively low maintainence fee property).

After a months long period of scheduled conversations with this special customer service team, they offered us a sale that took us back to Founders for quite a bit less than the corporate developer points rate. They knew we had gotten a rotten deal so they bent over backwards to help. We might have lucked out because Midtown seems to be trust-like so they could easily assemble a new Midtown contract by drawing any number of points from that pool that we needed to build a bigger Midtown contract.

Bob

That's good to know and good to hear - especially for the OP here - do you happen to recall the name of that special customer retention team?
 

HitchHiker71

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My guess is that over 95% of the posters in the Club Wyndham Plus forum have contracts with Wyndham — I have 9 myself. Those contracts obligate me to make monthly payments to them and follow the program guidelines, while obligating Wyndham to provide me services to reserve lodging, etc.
There are a quite a few people further along the spectrum of Wyndham fanhood on either side of me, including some that I would call rabid supporters. There are many on the other end of the spectrum, too. They’re having different perspectives than I do does not strike me as creating a conflict of interest. But it is all in how you interpret things. I find that I can learn from both the megarenters and the fans—YMMV.

I agree - I have learned a ton from both tribes here on TUG. We are stronger when we all work together and when we practice humility and seek first to understand before trying to be understood. A little empathy goes a long way...
 

paxsarah

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I have mentioned conflicts of interest either direct or indirect which encompasses many things including having a contract with Wyndham
This seems a little silly as a criteria for a conflict of interest in a forum designed for Wyndham owners. Yep, none of us can be trusted because we're all owners. And yet our opinions span the entire spectrum of Wyndham love to Wyndham disgust. So maybe we can eliminate that criteria.
there are Wyndies posting here with no other objective than support Wyndham for reasons we will never know
So by Wyndies do you mean anything other than ownership with Wyndham? I mean, outside of a direct employment relationship (past or present) there could be paid contractors (past or present), or owners of Travel + Leisure stock, and spouses or family members of all of the above. We probably do have some shareholders here. (I hold some funds in a total US stock market index fund, so technically I guess I'm one - along with essentially every other viable public company.) What else? Some owners are still making some money through rentals, I'm sure - in the current environment, how much beyond "offsetting maintenance fees" I really have no idea. (Rentals never really bothered me so how much people make from them is also not really within my realm of concern.) But many of the previous renters are pretty mad at Wyndham right now, or pretty quiet about it and playing their cards close to their vest - so I'm not sure they would have come across to you as "Wyndies."

Regardless if someone comes across as a rah rah "Wyndie," I still don't believe there's anyone who posts here for "no other objective than support Wyndham." Owners are here to learn and share with other owners. Even the ones who seem to have significant disdain for many of the rest here stick around, I would guess, because we share and analyze breaking Club Wyndham news before anyone else. (I would posit that even if Facebook sometimes gets the news first, TUG breaks it down and understands it better.)

So who might come across as the most Wyndham-positive? Right now, I'd say anyone who believes (correctly or not) that large amounts of renting had been hurting "regular owners" and now believe Wyndham has helped them by making it harder for renters to rent. Also, anyone who didn't invest a lot upfront and therefore isn't as attached to the rules that they bought in under - this could include resale owners, as well as some longtime owners who bought in cheap or under loopholes that no longer exist (and haven't closed on them, like the biennial loophole), or with favorable grandfathered VIP levels. And owners who bought in even at retail in recent years with eyes wide open, knowing the current rules and the provisions that allow Wyndham to change them, and deciding in advance that they're okay taking that risk. Of course, each of these scenarios has other owners on the other side that are probably less happy. And plenty of owners in the middle somewhere.

So I guess that's the answer - all of these owners' ulterior motive is having a contract with Wyndham. Guilty as charged.
 

schreff

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I've done both, thank you.

I'll stick with my statement that you can't libel someone if you say something about him/her that is true. Show me how that is wrong.

You are the one who brought up the subject of libel, straying from the topic. I just pointed out your error.
Then you should understand that a nexus is part of libel thus you oversimplified the definition. Also, libel does need to be demonstrably false or the person could have acted recklessly with malice whether true or false; however, the 2022 Supreme Court ruling fogs things up a bit but was applicable to public figures. Defamation can't be proven unless the defaming statement is proven false etc. You must also understand that besides truth the person has to be identified, publication must occur, a damaging of reputation, injury must occur and actual malice.

Good debate, thanks.

,
 

schreff

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This seems a little silly as a criteria for a conflict of interest in a forum designed for Wyndham owners. Yep, none of us can be trusted because we're all owners. And yet our opinions span the entire spectrum of Wyndham love to Wyndham disgust. So maybe we can eliminate that criteria.

So by Wyndies do you mean anything other than ownership with Wyndham? I mean, outside of a direct employment relationship (past or present) there could be paid contractors (past or present), or owners of Travel + Leisure stock, and spouses or family members of all of the above. We probably do have some shareholders here. (I hold some funds in a total US stock market index fund, so technically I guess I'm one - along with essentially every other viable public company.) What else? Some owners are still making some money through rentals, I'm sure - in the current environment, how much beyond "offsetting maintenance fees" I really have no idea. (Rentals never really bothered me so how much people make from them is also not really within my realm of concern.) But many of the previous renters are pretty mad at Wyndham right now, or pretty quiet about it and playing their cards close to their vest - so I'm not sure they would have come across to you as "Wyndies."

Regardless if someone comes across as a rah rah "Wyndie," I still don't believe there's anyone who posts here for "no other objective than support Wyndham." Owners are here to learn and share with other owners. Even the ones who seem to have significant disdain for many of the rest here stick around, I would guess, because we share and analyze breaking Club Wyndham news before anyone else. (I would posit that even if Facebook sometimes gets the news first, TUG breaks it down and understands it better.)

So who might come across as the most Wyndham-positive? Right now, I'd say anyone who believes (correctly or not) that large amounts of renting had been hurting "regular owners" and now believe Wyndham has helped them by making it harder for renters to rent. Also, anyone who didn't invest a lot upfront and therefore isn't as attached to the rules that they bought in under - this could include resale owners, as well as some longtime owners who bought in cheap or under loopholes that no longer exist (and haven't closed on them, like the biennial loophole), or with favorable grandfathered VIP levels. And owners who bought in even at retail in recent years with eyes wide open, knowing the current rules and the provisions that allow Wyndham to change them, and deciding in advance that they're okay taking that risk. Of course, each of these scenarios has other owners on the other side that are probably less happy. And plenty of owners in the middle somewhere.

So I guess that's the answer - all of these owners' ulterior motive is having a contract with Wyndham. Guilty as charged.
I still stick to my opinion but respect yours too. And no, I don't think everyone who is a rah rah Wyndie has a conflict and I believe the my definition of conflict isn't as broad as you may be interpreting it. I believe conflicts occur if you have anything to gain significantly by proactively defending or promoting Wyndham for that specific purpose. I have owned Wyndham stock and made a great deal of money, I have attended the stockholder's meetings in the past and awhile back I have sold all my Wyndham stock except for tidbits in some mutual funds I own but still am very anti-Wyndham today. This I disclosed previously.
 

paxsarah

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my definition of conflict isn't as broad as you may be interpreting it
conflicts of interest either direct or indirect which encompasses many things including having a contract with Wyndham
I can only go by what you said. Having a contract with Wyndham is pretty broad. I think my curiosity has been sated.
 
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