Festiva takes over resort

[ecwinch]

HOA's that allow marketing companies to sell RCI Points conversions get a cut of the take. That is the industry standard, but I could not tell you precisely the going percentage..

I think you are blending the various parties (NEVS, Outfield, Festiva) and the different resorts (Southcape & Blue Ridge).

For Southcape owners using Outfield that process involves deeding your week over FAC. FestivaRep has already commented that owners can join FAC without giving up their deeded week; by going to another FAC sales center and by-passing Outfield. Then it becomes more of a RCI points arrangement, where your fixed week converts to a certain number of points for the duration of your membership. RCI does not take the deed for your week in a points conversion.

So the only smoking gun is NEVS providing sales space and the owners list to Outfield. The owners list is the issue I would focus on, as there does not seem to be any basis for why that information would be shared with Outfield without appropriate consideration.

Since the resort is not involved in the conversion, not sure why the HOA would get a cut of the conversion fee. I think RCI points is a different animal, since it allows short term stays, in essence allowing a fixed week to be broken up into smaller stays. For which the HOA would need to be involved. Does FAC allow that?

It opens a great question though. For FAC conversion at Southcape, is the conversion permanent?

 

[FestivaRep]

Since the resort is not involved in the conversion, not sure why the HOA would get a cut of the conversion fee. I think RCI points is a different animal, since it allows short term stays, in essence allowing a fixed week to be broken up into smaller stays. For which the HOA would need to be involved. Does FAC allow that?

FAC does allow the points to be broken up into smaller stays during the usage year. They can either be used for a 7 night stay, or for two stays of 3 nights and 4 nights.

 

[Fig]

Why HOA can't collect conversion fees

ecwinch wrote:

"Since the resort is not involved in the conversion, not sure why the HOA would get a cut of the conversion fee. "

There is another reason. HOAs are non-profit. Outfield is for-profit. Southcape could have its status as a non-profit yanked by the IRS if it engaged in for profit activities.

It appears you have some very sophistacted players here using the non-profit membership of Southcape and other HOAs like Sandcastle for some substantial financial gains. I will post my thoughts as to how they may be operating on Southcape's board hopefully today.

 

[Fig]

FAC deed ownership

The only weeks at Southcape owned by Festiva are from those owners who have converted to the FAC. Festiva did not purchase any unsold, repossessed or deeded back weeks from Southcape, and Southcape was never part of the Equivest points system. So we only have as many votes as those who convert, and that number changes daily.

My understanding was that these deeds were put in a trust...a trust is not Festiva, so how can Festive "own" these deeds? Festiva is a for profit company not a trust. Please comment.

 

[tombo]

So the only smoking gun is NEVS providing sales space and the owners list to Outfield. The owners list is the issue I would focus on, as there does not seem to be any basis for why that information would be shared with Outfield without appropriate consideration.

I wouldn't say that is the only smoking gun, but it is questionable if not illegal tactics. I have never allowed in writing or verbally for my name, address, phone number, or ownership information to be given to marketing groups by Festiva or my resort. That is a privacy law violation IMO. In spite of not wanting my information disseminated, I have been contacted at home several times by Festiva or their 3rd party marketing company to try and get me to meet them in New Orleans to upgrade and hear about changes that Festiva is making. The only way they could call me and know that I own week(s) at a Festiva resort is if Festive gave or sold them my information.

If there are any lawyers here please tell us how to start a lawsuit against Festriva for disclosing private confidential information without our permission. I owned my weeks before festive ever showed up, so I know I never signed any agreement allowing them to disclose personal private information. The only reason that they have any of my personal information in their possession is because they are owners and the Mgt company at a resort I own, not because I gave it to them. This practice has to be illegal, and we should pursue legal action to make them cease and desist, plus pay punitive damages IMO.

 

[ecwinch]

ecwinch wrote:

" HOAs are non-profit. Outfield is for-profit. Southcape could have its status as a non-profit yanked by the IRS if it engaged in for profit activities.

I do not think that is it, since non-profits can engage in for for-profit activities (like the little league running a concession stand). They can even have to pay taxes on the profit if it is from unrelated business activity. The HOA would have to have significant unrelated business activity to endanger it's non-profit status.

"Even though nonprofit organizations are not created to pursue a profit, sometimes they have them. Profit is not denied to the nonprofit as long as the organization is pursuing the mission for which it was founded.
However, some profit is taxable and some profit is not. Many nonprofits engage in "related" business activities to help sustain their primary mission. Any profit from such an activity is tax-exempt."

 

[FestivaRep]

My understanding was that these deeds were put in a trust...a trust is not Festiva, so how can Festive "own" these deeds? Festiva is a for profit company not a trust. Please comment.

The weeks are owned by the Festiva Adventure Club Trust, not by Festiva Resorts, LLC.

 

[ecwinch]

I get confused by all the players in the game and the fact that this discussion is running across two threads.

I suggest we limit this thread to general questions about Festiva and the Festiva Adventure Club, and move discussion about Southcape in particular to that thread. I think the issues are inter-related, but seperate.

Even the title of this thread is off - it really is NEVS that has taken over Southcape, not Festiva.

And FestivaRep clearly cannot provide definitive answers about who makes up the Southcape board, how Outfield has the owner list, why they have a sales office on site, etc.

 

[ecwinch]

FAC does allow the points to be broken up into smaller stays during the usage year. They can either be used for a 7 night stay, or for two stays of 3 nights and 4 nights.

This opens up a great question. If the owners own a fixed or floating week, they have to use that week in it's entirety. Every resort is different, but at the ones I own, I cannot break my usage into shorter stays - even with my floating weeks.

How does FAC obtain this benefit, that is not available to all the other owners at the resort?

Is usage of that nature in the by-laws of the underlying resort?

If not, and if it is part of a seperate agreement with the HOA, is consideration given for the greater expense (housekeeping) incurred when a FAC member uses only part of a week (ie. 1 or more unit cleanings per week).

 

[Sou13]

It's supposed to be about Southcape and Outfield Marketing

I get confused by all the players in the game and the fact that this discussion is running across two threads.

I suggest we limit this thread to general questions about Festiva and the Festiva Adventure Club, and move discussion about Southcape in particular to that thread. I think the issues are inter-related, but seperate.

Even the title of this thread is off - it really is NEVS that has taken over Southcape, not Festiva.

And FestivaRep clearly cannot provide definitive answers about who makes up the Southcape board, how Outfield has the owner list, why they have a sales office on site, etc.

The original subject title got somehow changed, possibly by a moderator, and the discussion got moved. It's supposed to be about Southcape!

 

[FestivaRep]

And FestivaRep clearly cannot provide definitive answers about who makes up the Southcape board, how Outfield has the owner list, why they have a sales office on site, etc.

That is correct!

 

[ecwinch]

The original subject title got somehow changed, possibly by a moderator, and the discussion got moved. It's supposed to be about Southcape!

But there is a thread about Southcape in another forum. Why have two threads on the same issue?

 

[ecwinch]

That is correct!

At least I got one thing right today.

Here is one that hopefully you can answer. If I join FAC at Southcape through Outfield, am I transferring my week to the Festiva Adventure Club Trust?

Is the transfer permanent i.e. does the underlying deed transfer also?

 

[FestivaRep]

How does FAC obtain this benefit, that is not available to all the other owners at the resort?

Is usage of that nature in the by-laws of the underlying resort?

If not, and if it is part of a seperate agreement with the HOA, is consideration given for the greater expense (housekeeping) incurred when a FAC member uses only part of a week (ie. 1 or more unit cleanings per week).

FAC owns the unit and week so if the club wants to allow someone (ie our members) to use the unit for 4 nights and someone else to use it for 3 nights, it can. In theory a fixed week owner could allow someone to use their unit for 4 nights and someone to use their unit for 3 nights if they wanted. (for example if you wanted to let your parents use it 3 nights and your in-laws use it 4 nights)

In the case of FAC we always have the room cleaned after the first guest checks-out and before the next guest checks-in. The HOA bills the additional cleaning cost to FAC.

 

[FestivaRep]

Here is one that hopefully you can answer. If I join FAC at Southcape through Outfield, am I transferring my week to the Festiva Adventure Club Trust?

Is the transfer permanent i.e. does the underlying deed transfer also?

Yes, the deeded week transfers to the Adventure Club Trust whether you do so through Outfield or directly through Festiva.

 

[FestivaRep]

I have never allowed in writing or verbally for my name, address, phone number, or ownership information to be given to marketing groups by Festiva or my resort. That is a privacy law violation IMO. In spite of not wanting my information disseminated, I have been contacted at home several times by Festiva or their 3rd party marketing company to try and get me to meet them in New Orleans to upgrade and hear about changes that Festiva is making. The only way they could call me and know that I own week(s) at a Festiva resort is if Festive gave or sold them my information.

If there are any lawyers here please tell us how to start a lawsuit against Festriva for disclosing private confidential information without our permission. I owned my weeks before festive ever showed up, so I know I never signed any agreement allowing them to disclose personal private information. The only reason that they have any of my personal information in their possession is because they are owners and the Mgt company at a resort I own, not because I gave it to them. This practice has to be illegal, and we should pursue legal action to make them cease and desist, plus pay punitive damages IMO.

Tombo,
I will address this even though it is off topic from Southcape. Festiva Resorts and Festiva Management Group do have legal access to your personal information because of your 'existing business relationship' with your resort (BRV) that became a part of Festiva. Festiva has legitimate access to your information and we can legally share the information between related entities.

We never share or rent any owners' or members' personal information with any non-related or contracted companies.

Also, you can request to be removed from our internal marketing call list, which means that you will not receive calls from our marketing department or any affiliated company that does marketing for us (i.e. Outfield).

If you wish to be removed from that list, please send an e-mail to myemail@festivaresorts.com with your name, home resort and mailing address (so we can locate your account) and simply write 'request to be removed from internal marketing call list.'

 

[Carolinian]

ecwinch wrote:

"Since the resort is not involved in the conversion, not sure why the HOA would get a cut of the conversion fee. "

There is another reason. HOAs are non-profit. Outfield is for-profit. Southcape could have its status as a non-profit yanked by the IRS if it engaged in for profit activities.

It appears you have some very sophistacted players here using the non-profit membership of Southcape and other HOAs like Sandcastle for some substantial financial gains. I will post my thoughts as to how they may be operating on Southcape's board hopefully today.

As long as the receipts are not paid out to members, then a Non Profit can very well accept compensation for use of its assets. The test has more to do with what it paid out and to whom than what is taken in. If members share in ''profits'' then there is a problem. If the receipts from a portion of such sales are retained in the general account and used for proper non-profit purposes, then there is no problem.

A comparable situation would be a prime week that the HOA receives as a deed back and then turns around and sells for a decent price. This may on the surface be a profit, but as long as those proceeds are used for non-profit purposes, then it will not impact tax status.

 

[Carolinian]

Tombo,

Rather than accepting this answer, I would contact the state agency that regulates timeshare in the state where the resort is located. In most states that is the Real Estate Commission and lay out what is going on here.

Management would not inherently have a right to that list and state law may well restrict what they can do with it.

One resort on the OBX had an employee make off with a membership list and the Dare County Sheriffs Department jumped right on that investigation of violation of criminal law. I don't know all of the circumstances or the laws of the state involved in your case, so I would start on the civil side, and the timeshare regulators would be the starting point. The more members you can get to make complaints, the more likely you are to build a fire under them. Some such agencies are very proactive for timeshare consumers, and others less so.

Tombo,
I will address this even though it is off topic from Southcape. Festiva Resorts and Festiva Management Group do have legal access to your personal information because of your 'existing business relationship' with your resort (BRV) that became a part of Festiva. Festiva has legitimate access to your information and we can legally share the information between related entities.

We never share or rent any owners' or members' personal information with any non-related or contracted companies.

Also, you can request to be removed from our internal marketing call list, which means that you will not receive calls from our marketing department or any affiliated company that does marketing for us (i.e. Outfield).

If you wish to be removed from that list, please send an e-mail to myemail@festivaresorts.com with your name, home resort and mailing address (so we can locate your account) and simply write 'request to be removed from internal marketing call list.'

 

[ecwinch]

I agree with Carolinan.

The weak link in FestivaRep response is the right of the HOA (or their agents) to share the members list with Festiva, who in turn may have shared it with Outfield.

 

[FestivaRep]

...Management would not inherently have a right to that list and state law may well restrict what they can do with it.

One resort on the OBX had an employee make off with a membership list and the Dare County Sheriffs Department jumped right on that investigation of violation of criminal law...

The list for BRV members (and all other Peppertree Resorts/Equivest owners/members) was provided to us by Wyndham when the acquisition of those assets took place in 2007, as I'm sure the list was passed to Wyndham from whomever managed that resort prior to them.

I agree that if a former or current employee were to 'make off' with any list of owners or members, they should be criminally investigated and charged as that would be in direct violation of Festiva's corporate policy. But that's completely unrelated to how/why Festiva's corporate office has access to personal information for owners at a resort that they manage.

It does not seem unusual to me for a management company to have access to such information so that we can communicate with owners from a customer service perspective. All owner communications (maintenance fee billing, newsletters, reservation confirmations, etc.) come from Festiva's corporate office, and not from the resort. That is one of our responsibilities as the management company, and in order to do that we need the owners' information.

As i said before, you can be removed from all of our marketing lists.

 

[ecwinch]

But that's completely unrelated to how/why Festiva's corporate office has access to personal information for owners at a resort that they manage.

It does not seem unusual to me for a management company to have access to such information so that we can communicate with owners from a customer service perspective. All owner communications (maintenance fee billing, newsletters, reservation confirmations, etc.) come from Festiva's corporate office, and not from the resort. That is one of our responsibilities as the management company, and in order to do that we need the owners' information.

I do not think we are questioning why the management company has that access. The question is why the management company is providing it to third-parties for the purpose of soliciting members for matters not related to the resort.

And your response is only applicable to BRV, since you are not managing Southcape.

 

[FestivaRep]

I do not think we are questioning why the management company has that access. The question is why the management company is providing it to third-parties for the purpose of soliciting members for matters not related to the resort.

And your response is only applicable to BRV, since you are not managing Southcape.

Right, my response to Tombo was specifically talking about BRV because that's where Tombo owns.

Because we have a contract with Outfield, they are a 'related entity,' so we legally can share owner information with them, but only for the purposes of selling the Adventure Club. If they (or anyone else) misuses or abuses that information, then we would seek action. Again, you can request to have your information removed from our internal marketing list.

Further, Southcape is different (and that's where this thread is getting muddled as someone else mentioned) because we do not manage that resort and would not necessarily be the ones who provided the owner list to Outfield. Has any Southcape owner contacted the new management company or the HOA at SC for this information to help clarify?

 

[Sou13]

"Point System Discussions" Forum

But there is a thread about Southcape in another forum. Why have two threads on the same issue?

Because this is a different forum. The "Southcape Resort" discussion is in the "U.S. Eastern" forum and this is a "Point System Discussion"!

 

[Sou13]

I hope so!

Right, my response to Tombo was specifically talking about BRV because that's where Tombo owns.

Because we have a contract with Outfield, they are a 'related entity,' so we legally can share owner information with them, but only for the purposes of selling the Adventure Club. If they (or anyone else) misuses or abuses that information, then we would seek action. Again, you can request to have your information removed from our internal marketing list.

Further, Southcape is different (and that's where this thread is getting muddled as someone else mentioned) because we do not manage that resort and would not necessarily be the ones who provided the owner list to Outfield. Has any Southcape owner contacted the new management company or the HOA at SC for this information to help clarify?

To answer your question, I most certainly hope so!

Since so much of this discussion has come about as a result of what we Southcape Resort owners have shared in the U.S. Eastern Discussions forum, I hope that your answers have shed further light on our predicament.

If you go to the link in my signature you will be able to read for yourself the letter we received from Cliff Hagberg as an explanation for the increase in the maintenance fee. Nowhere in the letter does Managing Partner Hagberg explain that we will be contacted by Outfield Marketing for the sole and only purpose of enticing (?) us to convert our deeded weeks to the Festiva Adventure Club!

I have always wondered why I get so many calls from timeshare resale telemarketers. Who gave them the info that I own a timeshare? Was it Interval International or Southcape Resort?

Thank you for advising us on how to get our names removed from telemarketers' lists. And thank you for responding to our concerns.

Why is everyone so unwilling to share the offers made by Outfield Marketing?

 

[tombo]

It does not seem unusual to me for a management company to have access to such information so that we can communicate with owners from a customer service perspective. All owner communications (maintenance fee billing, newsletters, reservation confirmations, etc.) come from Festiva's corporate office, and not from the resort. That is one of our responsibilities as the management company, and in order to do that we need the owners' information.

As i said before, you can be removed from all of our marketing lists.

The management company having access to my personal information for use relating to my ownership is understandable. All of the resorts I own have my personal information, but not one of the other resorts has ever called my home trying to get me to come to a sales presentation! Please tell me how doing your mgt responsibilities could somehow relate to making calls trying to get me to join FAC! If Festiva buys a life insurance company are you allowed to give them my personal information to call and sell me life insurance? If Festiva acquire a credit card company can you give them my personal information so that they can pre-approve me for a credit card? If Festiva owns or hires any business are you allowed to give my personal information to them without my consent? I can't imagine that would be true.

First of all, I am on the national do not call list. Having access to my ownership information should not usurpe my legal right to not be called by salesman. Secondly, no one from Festiva Mgt has ever contacted me by phone regarding MF's, billing, reservation's, confirmations, etc by. If I was contacted regarding anything related to ownership issues, it would be understandable. However the only phone calls I have EVER received from anyone related to Festiva are trying to get me to come to a sales presentation. That is unacceptable and I really feel if a lawyer will take this class action suit that it would be shown in court to be ilegal. The privacy laws do not state that you have to contact a company to stop them from using your personal information, the laws say that the company must have written or verbal authorization to give anyone your personal information.

I think a lawyer could have a field day trying to make you prove that you have rights to sell or give my personal information to a sales department because I am an owner at a resort you manage, and the sales organization you are giving my information to and Festiva are related entities. Using your rationale, the Doctor who treats your obesity could give your medical information to the marketing dept of a Hospital he is employed by to call and try to sell you a membership in their Gym or to solicit you for gastric bypass surgery. If you buy a Ford automobile they can give your home address, phone number, social security number and other information to an extended warranty company they are associated with to call and try to sell you a warranty. The bank who closes your home loan can give your personal information to the P and C insurance company the bank has their building insured with so that company can call you to try and get you to insure your home with them. All of these are illegal as best I know, and it should really be a slam dunk to prove that Outfield got the owner's information from Festiva when Festiva doesn't even manage that resort. Of course your claim is that you didn't give them that information, but if it wasn't from Festiva, how could they get it?

The Rep gave a very long explanation justifying their dissemination of owner's personal information to a Festive or Festiva hired sales force which IMO is illegal. I hope an attorny can enlighten us because as the old saying goes, "Me thinks that thou does protest too much".