Festiva takes over resort

[somerville]

I thought Congress passed a law that required companies to provide notice to consumers that they would be sharing personal information with third parties and that the consumers were supposed to be able to opt out. Is Festiva notifying members in writing of their right to stop Festiva from sharing personal information?

 

[Carolinian]

The list for BRV members (and all other Peppertree Resorts/Equivest owners/members) was provided to us by Wyndham when the acquisition of those assets took place in 2007, as I'm sure the list was passed to Wyndham from whomever managed that resort prior to them.

I agree that if a former or current employee were to 'make off' with any list of owners or members, they should be criminally investigated and charged as that would be in direct violation of Festiva's corporate policy. But that's completely unrelated to how/why Festiva's corporate office has access to personal information for owners at a resort that they manage.

It does not seem unusual to me for a management company to have access to such information so that we can communicate with owners from a customer service perspective. All owner communications (maintenance fee billing, newsletters, reservation confirmations, etc.) come from Festiva's corporate office, and not from the resort. That is one of our responsibilities as the management company, and in order to do that we need the owners' information.

As i said before, you can be removed from all of our marketing lists.

Having access to it while managing a resort is one thing. Using it for other purposes or passing it on as part of a sale is another thing altogether. This whole situation really smells, and needs a thorough investigation to root out the culprits.

 

[Carolinian]

Right, my response to Tombo was specifically talking about BRV because that's where Tombo owns.

Because we have a contract with Outfield, they are a 'related entity,' so we legally can share owner information with them, but only for the purposes of selling the Adventure Club. If they (or anyone else) misuses or abuses that information, then we would seek action. Again, you can request to have your information removed from our internal marketing list.

Further, Southcape is different (and that's where this thread is getting muddled as someone else mentioned) because we do not manage that resort and would not necessarily be the ones who provided the owner list to Outfield. Has any Southcape owner contacted the new management company or the HOA at SC for this information to help clarify?

The state corporate statutes I am familiar do not allow providing membership lists with third parties for commercial purposes. If merely having a contract with a third party allowed someone to get around that, the statute would have no meaning. Someone needs to investigate these goings on.

 

[FestivaRep]

I have always wondered why I get so many calls from timeshare resale telemarketers. Who gave them the info that I own a timeshare? Was it Interval International or Southcape Resort?

If you own a deeded week at any timeshare resort, the recorded deed is public record in the courthouse in the county where the timeshare is located. That's how a lot of resale companies get owner information.

 

[Fig]

Anyone with an unlisted phone number get a call from Outfield?

If you own a deeded week at any timeshare resort, the recorded deed is public record in the courthouse in the county where the timeshare is located. That's how a lot of resale companies get owner information.

To my knowledge, the phone number is not a part of that information. If anybody reading this had an unlisted phone number, is the owner of a time share and was contacted by Outfield Marketing to convert to Festiva's point system, by all means, feel free to share this with the board.

 

[Carolinian]

If you own a deeded week at any timeshare resort, the recorded deed is public record in the courthouse in the county where the timeshare is located. That's how a lot of resale companies get owner information.

For deeds that are not recent, many would be out of date, however. And that is very manpower intensive to search them down that way.

 

[FestivaRep]

For deeds that are not recent, many would be out of date, however. And that is very manpower intensive to search them down that way.

I agree, and that's not how Festiva (or Outfield to my knowledge) gets the owner information, but it was my understanding that Sou13 was referring to being contacted by timeshare resale companies, not Outfield.

 

[FestivaRep]

To my knowledge, the phone number is not a part of that information. If anybody reading this had an unlisted phone number, is the owner of a time share and was contacted by Outfield Marketing to convert to Festiva's point system, by all means, feel free to share this with the board.

I was not implying that this is how Outfield got the owners' information, as Sou13's question was specifically about timeshare resale companies.

 

[tombo]

I was not implying that this is how Outfield got the owners' information, as Sou13's question was specifically about timeshare resale companies.

So you are saying what you said before, that Outfield gets it's information from Festiva?


I have received a lot of junk mail from 3rd party resale companies and I assume they got my address from public records on recent purchases, but only Festiva has called my home to solicit a sale from me even though I am on the "national do not call list". I can assure you that my home phone and cell phone are not listed on the deed or in the public records. In fact most of my deeds are in my business address (including BRV) which is not listed in my name, so it is impossible to get my home phone number from that address.

From this moment on I would like to ask everyone to document when you are called and from what number (if they don't block it using caller ID). Even if caller ID is blocked, the numbers can be subpoena'd if you have the date and time of the call. Let's get some definitve facts and dates and see if the state attorney general feels like they have the right to call us from Festiva records without out permission. I think they might have crossed a very serious legal line with this marketing technique, and if they did break the law it is time they cease and desist and like in Missouri pay penalties and restitution. I for one shouldn't have ever been called, and when I get called again I will have the time and date written down and ready to give to any legal entity that will listen. I hope everyone else does the same so we can have some real proof to pursue what we feel is wrongdoing by Festiva in their marketing practices and what is in our opinion the unlawful dissemination of our personal information to Festiva's sales force and to their 3rd party sales forces.

 

[Fig]

So you are saying what you said before, that Outfield gets it's information from Festiva?


In sorting through the players here, the source of the information for Southcape and Sandcastle both on the Cape and both being heavily marketed to by Outfield to convert to Festiva may lie with Cliff Hagberg, a "trustee" at Southcape and a key player in at New England Vacation Services and a very related sounding company...New England Vacation Management (NEVM), where he is CEO.

Cliff has access to VERY detailed records such as:

"...complete record of each of New England Vacation Management’s owner information, with detailed contact and financial information. Another one of Hagberg’s demands was that the new software be easy to use, even by entry-level personnel and part-time summer help..." (Hmm...those two thoughts are a little disconcerting.)

Here's the article http://askmando.com/authors/brosious_matt/resort_management_software.html

Cliff Hagberg, has identified himself in communications along with Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks as a "trustee" of Southcape.

Thomas C. Franks is identified as the CEO of Outfield Marketing in this industry release...read down about 4 paragraphs http://www.resorttrades.com/articles.php?showMag=Resort&act=view&id=233

A Steve Lamantia was asked to leave someone's home in Brandford, MO detailed in this Trip advisor post after trying to sell Festiva points to an owner in a home meeting that sound a lot like the ones taking place with Southcape and Sandcastle owners.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...tiva_Outfield_Marketing-Branson_Missouri.html

This visit occured within months of news reports Festiva being fined hundreds of thousands by The Attorney General of MO for its marketing tactics in Branford.
http://www.kspr.com/news/local/21573409.html

So, Cliff has a database including very detailed information on HOA owners, Tom is the CEO of Outfield and Steve appears to be a door-to-door salesperson at Outfield who may have moved up the ranks...Cliff, Tom and Steve are referred to in communications as Trustees at Southcape.

Southcape owners are being heavily marketed to by Outfield through repeated phone calls to set up in home visits to give up their deeds and join Festiva Adventure Club. You connect the dots....

 

[FestivaRep]

only Festiva has called my home to solicit a sale from me even though I am on the "national do not call list". I can assure you that my home phone and cell phone are not listed on the deed or in the public records. In fact most of my deeds are in my business address (including BRV) which is not listed in my name, so it is impossible to get my phone number from that address.

I posted instructions earlier for how you can be removed from Festiva's internal marketing call list. Please let me know if you need those to be posted again.

 

[tombo]

I posted instructions earlier for how you can be removed from Festiva's internal marketing call list. Please let me know if you need those to be posted again.

My question to you is not how I need to be removed from the marketing list. My question is how does Festiva feel that they have the legal right to give my personal information without my permission to any sales force so they can call me to solicit sales?

 

[Carolinian]

Sounds like someone needs to pay a visit to the state agency that regulates timeshare developers, sales, and HOA's, usually the state Real Estae Commission. Something definitely smells here.

So you are saying what you said before, that Outfield gets it's information from Festiva?


In sorting through the players here, the source of the information for Southcape and Sandcastle both on the Cape and both being heavily marketed to by Outfield to convert to Festiva may lie with Cliff Hagberg, a "trustee" at Southcape and a key player in at New England Vacation Services and a very related sounding company...New England Vacation Management (NEVM), where he is CEO.

Cliff has access to VERY detailed records such as:

"...complete record of each of New England Vacation Management’s owner information, with detailed contact and financial information. Another one of Hagberg’s demands was that the new software be easy to use, even by entry-level personnel and part-time summer help..." (Hmm...those two thoughts are a little disconcerting.)

Here's the article http://askmando.com/authors/brosious_matt/resort_management_software.html

Cliff Hagberg, has identified himself in communications along with Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks as a "trustee" of Southcape.

Thomas C. Franks is identified as the CEO of Outfield Marketing in this industry release...read down about 4 paragraphs http://www.resorttrades.com/articles.php?showMag=Resort&act=view&id=233

A Steve Lamantia was asked to leave someone's home in Brandford, MO detailed in this Trip advisor post after trying to sell Festiva points to an owner in a home meeting that sound a lot like the ones taking place with Southcape and Sandcastle owners.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...tiva_Outfield_Marketing-Branson_Missouri.html

This visit occured within months of news reports Festiva being fined hundreds of thousands by The Attorney General of MO for its marketing tactics in Branford.
http://www.kspr.com/news/local/21573409.html

So, Cliff has a database including very detailed information on HOA owners, Tom is the CEO of Outfield and Steve appears to be a door-to-door salesperson at Outfield who may have moved up the ranks...Cliff, Tom and Steve are referred to in communications as Trustees at Southcape.

Southcape owners are being heavily marketed to by Outfield through repeated phone calls to set up in home visits to give up their deeds and join Festiva Adventure Club. You connect the dots....

 

[FestivaRep]

My question to you is not how I need to be removed from the marketing list. My question is how does Festiva feel that they have the legal right to give my personal information without my permission to any sales force so they can call me to solicit sales?

Because of your existing relationship with BRV, which is now a part of Festiva.

The information below from a Privacy Law Blog may help.

The FCC, under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, (“TCPA”) has jurisdiction over all entities engaged in telemarketing, whether interstate or intrastate. In 2003, both the FTC and the FCC enacted rules to implement the national do not call registry. Under both sets of rules, businesses could continue to make live calls to any EBR (existing business relationship) consumer even if the consumer has enrolled in the national Do Not Call registry, unless the consumer has made a “company-specific” Do Not Call request to the calling entity.

 

[FestivaRep]

out of office for a week

I will be out of the office next week to attend the ARDA conference in Orlando. I will try to keep up with reading the board in my 'downtime' if there is any, but if my lack of participation is noticed next week, it's not because I've stopped posting/reading, just because I'm out of town.

Thanks for those of you who have offered your support, and for allowing me to participate on this board. See you again after April 6.

 

[tombo]

Because of your existing relationship with BRV, which is now a part of Festiva.

The information below from a Privacy Law Blog may help.

The FCC, under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, (“TCPA”) has jurisdiction over all entities engaged in telemarketing, whether interstate or intrastate. In 2003, both the FTC and the FCC enacted rules to implement the national do not call registry. Under both sets of rules, businesses could continue to make live calls to any EBR (existing business relationship) consumer even if the consumer has enrolled in the national Do Not Call registry, unless the consumer has made a “company-specific” Do Not Call request to the calling entity.

I don't consider the relationship that we have a business relationship. I own at a resort, you manage it. I have purchased nothing from BRV or Festiva. It might get you by legally, but it might not. I am sure that you don't want to test the legality of giving a sales force my name address, phone number, and what I own in court, or to the AG. JMHO, but if someone files a complaint I will join them because you don't now, and never have had my permission to give any salesman, anywhere, any of my personal information.

 

[FestivaRep]

I don't consider the relationship that we have a business relationship. I own at a resort, you manage it. I have purchased nothing from BRV or Festiva. It might get you by legally, but it might not. I am sure that you don't want to test the legality of giving a sales force my name address, phone number, and what I own in court, or to the AG. JMHO, but if someone files a complaint I will join them because you don't now, and never have had my permission to give any salesman, anywhere, any of my personal information.

We are obviously not getting anywhere with this issue on this forum. If you with to take it further, please feel free to contact our owner services department and CC our legal department, as I have been working closely with Legal in responding to this subject and I'm sure they know what they're talking about as they work with an outside attorney who specializes in privacy law. I will not address it any further here as I don't want this thread to turn into a shouting match.

 

[tombo]

I will be out of the office next week to attend the ARDA conference in Orlando. I will try to keep up with reading the board in my 'downtime' if there is any, but if my lack of participation is noticed next week, it's not because I've stopped posting/reading, just because I'm out of town.

Thanks for those of you who have offered your support, and for allowing me to participate on this board. See you again after April 6.

As crazy as this is going to sound, I sincerely hope that you have a fun week in Orlando. I am mad at Festiva and some of the things they have done and are doing at my resort (raising MF's, renovating, and I am sure upcoming assessments to renovate). I am mad at the CEO who said that if we didn't like what Festiva was doing that we could deed our weeks back. I am mad that I am getting unsolicited sales calls using my personal information, but I am not mad at you personally. You answer questions with the company line, which of course is all you can do since you are a corporate employee (although we would love for you to post here if you ever leave Festiva's employment). You are friendly in an environment which is hostile through no fault of your own. I would be mad about things Festiva does that you can't change (which I hope we can change) whether you posted here or not. Your job pays you to smooth ruffled feathers and I think you do it as well as any could. You might not agree with some of the things Festiva does either, but because of job responsibilities and possibly company loyalty you have to defend their actions whether you agree with them or not.

To make a long story short I will never be able to make you publically criticize Festiva and agree with us when we say that they are treating owners bad as long as you are employed by them. No matter what you say I will probably never like the fact that Festiva took over my resort because of the way they make money by assessing, increasing MF's, charging ridiculous mgt fees, and by trying to sell owners something they already own (the right to vacation at the resort) while charging them to take away their vote and lifetime deeded ownership for the benefit of Festiva and to the detriment of the owners IMO.

So have a great vacation and I want you to know that I really don't dislike you in any way, I dislike Festiva's actions at my resort and others. When you return and begin to again post company rhetoric that I feel is false or misleading, I will once again spring into action and expose what I feel was a spin on the truth. When I learn of Festiva actions I feel are detrimental to owners, I will post it here loud and clear. I will admit to being wrong if shown to be wrong (I am mistaken occasionally). I know that company spokespeople don't have that option and can never admit they are wrong because it could open them up to legal repercussions. As for now have a great trip, and unless you are an officer of Festiva, I know that you are just doing the job they pay you to do. It is not now and never has been anything personal. So relax, enjoy your trip, and don't worry because I will be here when you get back

 

[Sou13]

Back to the subject of this discussion?

I will be out of the office next week to attend the ARDA conference in Orlando. I will try to keep up with reading the board in my 'downtime' if there is any, but if my lack of participation is noticed next week, it's not because I've stopped posting/reading, just because I'm out of town.

Thanks for those of you who have offered your support, and for allowing me to participate on this board. See you again after April 6.

So now that FestivaRep is off to Orlando, can we get back to the original subject of this discussion?

So far I've been the only TUG member to publicly post here what Outfield Marketing's offer of the day was to me for converting my deeded week at Southcape Resort to a 40-year "trust" in the Festiva Adventure Club.

Upon revisiting the points chart found at http://www.festivaadventureclub.com (password FAC19043) I discovered that I had been mistaken about the points value assigned to a "green" week at Southcape Resort. It's 2100, which meant that I was being offered 1400 more points than my week supposedly was worth.

I say "supposedly" because the "float" weeks at Southcape Resort include all the weeks from mid-September until the end of May, and no "float" week owners actually own the week registered on the deed. In fact, if you don't reserve a week during that period, you won't have one unless nobody else reserved the week you supposedly "own"!

Furthermore, Southcape I owners can't reserve weeks in Condo II and vice versa. Southcape I owners can join Interval International while Southcape II owners can join RCI. Anyone who owns a week in Southcape II may even have a different system of reserving float weeks. That's something I've never investigated.

When I got through to Customer Service I was told that at that time the FAC didn't have an inventory of what weeks were available at Southcape or what kind of units they were. I surmised that my days of getting a loft unit with washer/dryer and fireplace were over, and that my days of knowing more than 45 days in advance whether I would be able to enjoy a 4 day/3 day split week would also be over.

Overall I saw no benefit to converting to FAC but couldn't help but wonder how converting to FAC points would be to the benefit of Southcape Resort.

 

[tombo]

Upon revisiting the points chart found at http://www.festivaadventureclub.com (password FAC19043) I discovered that I had been mistaken about the points value assigned to a "green" week at Southcape Resort. It's 2100, which meant that I was being offered 1400 more points than my week supposedly was worth.

I say "supposedly" because the "float" weeks at Southcape Resort include all the weeks from mid-September until the end of May, and no "float" week owners actually own the week registered on the deed. In fact, if you don't reserve a week during that period, you won't have one unless nobody else reserved the week you supposedly "own"!

This is a huge problem with points not based on a deeded week. They can be oversold and the values assigned to weeks can vary depending on the whim of the company or sales force. Since they aren't tied to a particular deed they are like monopoly money.

For example, if you won't buy FAC and give up your deed for 1000 points. The salesman then offers you 3000 points for a little more money and you buy. Now you give Festiva your February week worth in their chart 1000 points (an example, not from the points chart) and you now have enough points to book 4th of July. Every time they do that they are overselling the summer weeks that they don't have access to (try to get Festiva to tell you how many summer weeks and units/weeks are in their points pool. They won't give you exact numbers because they control very few IMO). Most summer week owners will never let their weeks go for points because they already own a summer week.The FEW people who actually owned a summer week and got tricked into buying points will of course be expecting to reserve a summer week with their points every year, as will the February people who paid more money to buy enough points to reserve a summer week. Festiva created new summer points owners, they just didn't increase the number of weeks and units available to actually vacation in. People can't vacation in points, they vacation in rooms.

Points salesmen will take 2 february weeks with value of 1000 each and sell you 2000 points. If you can book a summer week for 2000 points you have now placed 2 February weeks into the points pool that few people will want while making yourself a summer week owner on paper. In reality you have just reduced by one the number of points owners who will actually get to reserve a summer week. Once again the points people have given summer week access to another "member" without bothering to actually build or acquire an additional summer week. As they say around here, "That dog won't hunt".

It is a house of cards that is bound to fail at some point in the future. I have never been to any points sales presentation where I wasn't offered the option to buy as many points as I wanted. It has always made me wonder why they seem to have unlimited points for sale. In my opinion they have unlimited points for sale because they can manufacture points like the gov't prints money.

If you go to a sales presentation for fixed weeks, they will tell you what they have available for sale. They will actually sell out of summer weeks and won't have any more to sell at some point. Points resorts will always sell you enough points to book you a summer week and assure you that with your smart purchase of X number of points, it won't ever be a problem to vacation there every summer. When they sell enough points to enough people, it will be a really big problem.

 

[Carolinian]

I don't consider the relationship that we have a business relationship. I own at a resort, you manage it. I have purchased nothing from BRV or Festiva. It might get you by legally, but it might not. I am sure that you don't want to test the legality of giving a sales force my name address, phone number, and what I own in court, or to the AG. JMHO, but if someone files a complaint I will join them because you don't now, and never have had my permission to give any salesman, anywhere, any of my personal information.

As mere managers of a resort, they do not have any ownership rights in the list of members. That belongs to the HOA, not management. To me this is a clear abuse of their role as managers. If the HOA did authorize them to use the list, there may also be problems there, especially if Festiva operatives were on the board and participated in that decision. A board member has a fiduciary duty to both the resort and its members. Festiva converting owners to points members is not in the interest of either, especially on the terms offered and with deceptive high pressure sales. If the board is involved in their having the list, there may be legal relief against the board.

 

[Carolinian]

You have hit upon the very thing that caused points to lose all credibility on the OBX when Peppertree/Equivest started selling points when they had almost sold out Outer Banks Beach Club II.

They toured people at the Beach Club, and in the process told them how many points it would take for a summer week. When they got around to the sale, they said ''Oh, by the way, the points will be deeded at another resort, but that doesn't matter because points are points''. Of course, most summer weeks were already owned by weeks-based owners and never availible to points members, so there was never anything close to availibility for the demand they created for the few summer points weeks. This made a lot of those buyers angry, and rightfully so. Many of those people went elsewhere to buy a ''real week'' such as other resorts or the OBX's timeshare specialty realtor. And many connected with those resorts and OBRR, the realtor, heard a lot of harsh words about the Peppertree bandits.

Points is really a big shell game where developers keep reselling the same inventory again and again.

This is a huge problem with points not based on a deeded week. They can be oversold and the values assigned to weeks can vary depending on the whim of the company or sales force. Since they aren't tied to a particular deed they are like monopoly money.

For example, if you won't buy FAC and give up your deed for 1000 points. The salesman then offers you 3000 points for a little more money and you buy. Now you give Festiva your February week worth in their chart 1000 points (an example, not from the points chart) and you now have enough points to book 4th of July. Every time they do that they are overselling the summer weeks that they don't have access to (try to get Festiva to tell you how many summer weeks and units/weeks are in their points pool. They won't give you exact numbers because they control very few IMO). Most summer week owners will never let their weeks go for points because they already own a summer week.The FEW people who actually owned a summer week and got tricked into buying points will of course be expecting to reserve a summer week with their points every year, as will the February people who paid more money to buy enough points to reserve a summer week. Festiva created new summer points owners, they just didn't increase the number of weeks and units available to actually vacation in. People can't vacation in points, they vacation in rooms.

Points salesmen will take 2 february weeks with value of 1000 each and sell you 2000 points. If you can book a summer week for 2000 points you have now placed 2 February weeks into the points pool that few people will want while making yourself a summer week owner on paper. In reality you have just reduced by one the number of points owners who will actually get to reserve a summer week. Once again the points people have given summer week access to another "member" without bothering to actually build or acquire an additional summer week. As they say around here, "That dog won't hunt".

It is a house of cards that is bound to fail at some point in the future. I have never been to any points sales presentation where I wasn't offered the option to buy as many points as I wanted. It has always made me wonder why they seem to have unlimited points for sale. In my opinion they have unlimited points for sale because they can manufacture points like the gov't prints money.

If you go to a sales presentation for fixed weeks, they will tell you what they have available for sale. They will actually sell out of summer weeks and won't have any more to sell at some point. Points resorts will always sell you enough points to book you a summer week and assure you that with your smart purchase of X number of points, it won't ever be a problem to vacation there every summer. When they sell enough points to enough people, it will be a really big problem.

 

[tombo]

As mere managers of a resort, they do not have any ownership rights in the list of members. That belongs to the HOA, not management. To me this is a clear abuse of their role as managers. If the HOA did authorize them to use the list, there may also be problems there, especially if Festiva operatives were on the board and participated in that decision. A board member has a fiduciary duty to both the resort and its members. Festiva converting owners to points members is not in the interest of either, especially on the terms offered and with deceptive high pressure sales. If the board is involved in their having the list, there may be legal relief against the board.

I feel that you are right, but I am not a lawyer. To use the business relationship argument seems far fetched unless you actually bought your week or points from Festiva. If anyone on TUG or anywhere else mounts a group to challenge them on giving our personal information without our authorization, count me in. My gut feeling is we should win easily. Everyone please document when the salesmen call and what they say (I see that you own a week number....etc) in case we ever get the AG or a class action attorney to address this.

Looking for a leader who owns at a Festiva resort, which they didn't purchase from Festiva, and who has been solicited without permission by Festiva. Any takers?

 

[timeos2]

Any system can only deliver what is deposited

They toured people at the Beach Club, and in the process told them how many points it would take for a summer week. When they got around to the sale, they said ''Oh, by the way, the points will be deeded at another resort, but that doesn't matter because points are points''. Of course, most summer weeks were already owned by weeks-based owners and never availible to points members, so there was never anything close to availibility for the demand they created for the few summer points weeks. This made a lot of those buyers angry, and rightfully so. Many of those people went elsewhere to buy a ''real week'' such as other resorts or the OBX's timeshare specialty realtor. And many connected with those resorts and OBRR, the realtor, heard a lot of harsh words about the Peppertree bandits.

Points is really a big shell game where developers keep reselling the same inventory again and again.

A poorly designed points system with limited resorts could be a big problem if the promises exceed the ability to deliver. But a well designed system with plenty of inventory can be far superior to an average week for week exchange. In high demand, seasonal areas its tough to beat a fixed ownership IF you want to only use/trade that time and are willing to pay a premium for it. If you simply want access to many resorts in various use times that include high demand, highly seasonal periods then a well operated, inventory rich points system will beat week for week trades every time. Neither can deliver what isn't in inventory but the set up of points brings in far more inventory than the less predictable week deposits can. Neither system is perfect but the points based ones tend to be far more open and predictable than the weeks based with all the secret manipulation of what is effectively points (trade value) behind the curtains. Give me a nice fixed summer week if I can get it where I want in seasonal areas, a points system with 100's of internal resorts for general use and a great float use in a year round area and I've got all the best. Hardly ever need to involve week trades in that portfolio.

 

[tombo]

A poorly designed points system with limited resorts could be a big problem if the promises exceed the ability to deliver. But a well designed system with plenty of inventory can be far superior to an average week for week exchange. In high demand, seasonal areas its tough to beat a fixed ownership

Many Festiva resorts are beach locations (I think 16 out of 27 are beach locations) where summer weeks and spring break weeks are the only weeks of any value. Festiva acquires new resorts by buying the unsold inventory and repossessed inventory at these resorts. We all know what inventory remains unsold or repossessed, the non summer,non Christmas/New Years, non spring break weeks. Now they start acquiring other weeks by getting owners to convert to points. Most people who have a fixed prime week will not convert, but through scare tactics, salesmanship, etc a few will. They can claim to have prime summer weeks in their inventory even if they only have 2 weeks, and they can claim to have a resort in their points program if they only have a very small per cent of the total resort inventory available for points members to access.

It isn't just a limited number of resorts that cause points owners problems, it is limited access at the resorts they list as part of the club that is the problem. Swapping a week you own in the RCI points program is a great way to access large availability because access to RCI points resorts and weeks is huge. Swapping your fixed or floating week with RCI does the same thing. To buy into a points program with limited resorts, and even worse limited inventory at most of the resorts they are associated with in the hopes of getting good internal trades is not even close to a good deal.

Points are not just points