Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[Maple_Leaf]

Smell test

The OP mentioned in a previous post here that the resort did confirm that the renter did have the ability to secure the week. The resort did confirm that she was an owner, and the OP had a confirmed reservation emailed to her (yes, it was a for a different week). Why does everyone want to presume this is a Scam?

This whole thing is killing me, because it seems that everyone is so quick to want to jump to their own conclusions about this being a scam.

The OP is strangely silent about clearing the air, and we're only getting one side of the story here. This matter has probably been resolved by now, one way or the other.

Disclosure: I am NOT the renter, and I don't know the renter. And I've rented a timeshare week about 3 times in the last 5 years.

Please refer to Denise's list of red flags. This deal has more red flags than the Kremlin. Doesn't prove it's a scam, just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[Maple_Leaf]

It's possible...

When you do an upgrade reservation like that..how long before you receve the email confirmation? Is it possible the rentor had already done the upgrade but hadn't received the confirmation email yet and that is why she was showing the previous one?

It is possible that the rentor had put the reservation in the rentee's name before going on vacation, but being out of country, was unable to email that to the rentee, before receiving the cancelation request from them

I've never upgraded weeks, so I don't know how long it takes to get evidence of the upgrade. It is possible the landlord had already done the upgrade but hadn't received the confirmation yet and that is why the landlord was showing the original assigned week on the reservation.

 

[esk444]

Maybe I'm wrong here but I thought you got both the "trade power" restoration AND a credit on your account for a future exchange if you take out the RCI insurance??

The answer is no to the credit on your account because anyone that cancels an exchange gets that credit. It has nothing to do with the RCI insurance. Well at least the last time I read RCI's exchange cancellation policy, which was a couple of years ago. The RCI insurance only affects the trading power of your credit.

 

[vckempson]

The answer is no to the credit on your account because anyone that cancels an exchange gets that credit. It has nothing to do with the RCI insurance. Well at least the last time I read RCI's exchange cancellation policy, which was a couple of years ago. The RCI insurance only affects the trading power of your credit.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I seem to recollect that the refund for the exchange fee is pro-rated depending on how late you cancel. With the insurance, you'll get the full amount back, without pro-rating, regardless of how close you are to the reservation date when you cancel.

Correction: I just went online to start a cancellation and see what the costs are. The cancellation fee is equal to the exchange fee. You get nothing back on it unless you have insurance. It's the TPU's that get pro-rated for the week that's returned to your account.

 

[esk444]

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I seem to recollect that the refund for the exchange fee is pro-rated depending on how late you cancel. With the insurance, you'll get the full amount back, without pro-rating, regardless of how close you are to the reservation date when you cancel.

Correction: I just went online to start a cancellation and see what the costs are. The cancellation fee is equal to the exchange fee. You get nothing back on it unless you have insurance. It's the TPU's that get pro-rated for the week that's returned to your account.

I maybe am confusing what is meant by "credit" if it is the exchange fee or the return of a week.

I have no idea whether the insurance cover the return of the exchange fee (its not like anyone is going to take a $50+ insurance policy for the risk of losing a $170 exchange fee or whatever it is).

I just wanted to debunk the notion that you need to buy the RCI insurance to get your week back. That's not true, anyone can get cancel and get their week back. If you cancel before check-in per the rules a couple of years ago, you got back a credit (but at a lower trade power). The real value of the RCI insurance is to protect your trade power.

That means something if you are depositing something great, not so much with an off or shoulder season week or something like a South African trader. Or if you simply want to go to Orlando or someplace like that.

 

[foreverloves]

I'm sorry, but I stayed far away from this thread after the way some accusations were thrown, but I will try to update.

I don't know where everyone got off track, but first and foremost, I never signed a rental agreement with her. I never was told of any "terms" of hers. She did not even spell out a payment arrangement - I did. For the record, I would never pay upfront in full, non-refundable, for a rental I could not at least confirm in some way. That is insanity to me. This owner provided me with a confirmation in HER name for a different week than offered. IT IS POSSIBLE to upgrade season with this resort, for a fee. But you have to call and secure the week (somehow, I could not, but she could?) How do I know this landlord would actually change the name of the reservation into my name after receiving full payment?

I wrote to the owner, per the advice of a Tugger, and did not hear anything over night (She has normally responded overnight). The following day, I opened a Paypal dispute, if for no other reason than I could not get a response from the owner. A few hours later, I DID receive an answer. This time the owner claimed to have been away for the weekend overseas. I don't know how or when she would have put the reservation into my name being so out of touch. I did ask about a confirmation and I did ask about completing the rental, and she was not interested. She would not and still has not provided any confirmation. I hope and pray she has re-rented; she has said nothing to that point. I have no idea.

The status of any refund is not settled yet. The owner has not responded to the paypal dispute, but did make one reference to a refund at some point.

Trip insurance is not practical when you do not yet have a confirmed trip to insure.

I suppose I compare timeshare rentals to when I was a leasing manager in a highrise buildling. We used to have potential tenants come to us and fill out applications and put apartments on 'hold'. They signed documents that stated they would lose their deposit if they cancelled or if they did not qualify to rent. I had people who were unqualified to rent and some that simply changed their mind. One guy came and told us he lost his job a few days before he was supposed to sign a lease. Those people lost their deposits (per their contracts) and nothing else. We did not hold them responsible for a year's rent (the rental term) or anything else they did not specifically agree to. This is my basis for comparison - so it is clear.

Someone mentioned that rental agreements solve this problem, and that is correct. As I have stated (over and over and over again) I would have done whatever I had agreed to do if I had signed an agreement - an agreement that she was supposed to send me and never did. If the agreement had said I was forfeiting all monies or that I was supposed to 'hang' for the entire rental, I would have been unhappy but I would have done that.

I appreciate the advice of those fellow Tuggers who have offered comments and solutions based on the facts presented. Those have helped. I will attempt to update at some point if there is a resolution.

 

[JudyS]

When you rent a timeshare from a private owner, you generally get a huge discount (at least 35%, sometimes 50%, sometimes even more) off the price of renting the same week from the resort. In many cases these days, the final rental cost is less than the owner's cost (in annual fees, PayPal fees, advertising, etc.)

In exchange for this big discount, one of the main things you give up is the ability to cancel the week and get your money back. Is there ANYONE here who regularly rents out their timeshares and who offers renters their deposit back if they cancel? I've never heard of a timeshare owner giving renters their deposit back if they cancel.

If I rent a timeshare that is less than 30 days before check-in, I want payment upfront, no refunds. More than 30 days out, I take a deposit and that, again, is not refundable.

I haven't been following this closely enough to comment on the "scam" allegations, but I want to add to the chorus of voices saying that when you rent from a private owner, the general rule is no refunds.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Jennifier,
As an early poster, I too argued "that what was paid was lost. Sorry about your foot injury and lost vacation opportunity".

As you disclosed more information, esp that you, had prior to renting, (1)had tried to upgrade your week, (2) the "owner" had provide a reservation for a different week than you needed and (3)this caused you to wonder how that could be.

I know when I call one of my resorts for an upgrade, if the answer is NOT available ==> it had better mean NOT available to everyone. I think the only thing I would have done different from you, I would have ASK WHO at your resort got her the upgrade. Afterall, you had to pay onsite for that upgrade, right? Then I would have called that person to verify the upgrade was in progress.

I think filing a dispute with Paypal is how you will get your monies back. I suspect there was not upgrade done or available to your seller when you paid. The rentor was hoping for a last minute cancellation, at the best.

Hope the foot is feeling better.

 

[theo]

I disagree...

...I want to add to the chorus of voices saying that when you rent from a private owner, the general rule is no refunds.

With all due respect (and I'm not seeking to argue, take sides, or add any fuel to the fire) I do not subscribe to this "general rule" position.

Deposit, payment, cancellation, refund (and time frames for all the foregoing) terms should be very clearly specified within an executed, formal rental agreement. In the absence of same, I don't believe there is any "general rule", but instead just a wide and varied assortment of personal opinions and individual practices...

 

[ace2000]

The only "confirmation" I received was HER week in HER name. It was, to my knowledge, never transferred to my name. The week on the reservation wasn't the week I was getting. This did not concern me because my resort allows people to 'move up' in season for a fee. I was going to pay that fee. The ONLY concern I had was that I called my resort too (why wouldn't I have??) to move my week up and I was told there was no availability. When I asked this woman about how SHE could move up in season but I could not, she said she had previously secured the week, even though the reservation didn't reflect that.

To the OP, it appears this thread has given you the answers you were looking for - and that is how to back out of a transaction that you made a committment to. Again, from your quote above (from an earlier previous post), it appears that you were able to validate that the owner actually did have the ability to secure the week.

Later in the thread, after a few mentioned a possible scam scenario, you took that and ran with it and filed a dispute with Paypal, even though you probably knew that wasn't true. Now, in your last post, you don't mention a scam possibility, but you did file a claim. What was the basis of your claim?

Then you keep mentioning that you had nothing in writing... well, you did verbally commit to the transaction, and you did send her payment which does validate your original agreement.

I don't think I've missed anything here, but if I have, please let us know.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am glad you got back to TUG. I've had my feelings hurt here more than once over the years, and at times I swore I would never come back.

Since she still hasn't provided a confirmation for those dates, in your name, and she is being stubborn about going forward with the rental, I do hope you get a full refund of your money.

Sadly, this woman is not a good communicator, didn't provide a rental agreement, and is generally not cooperating with the refund.

Your original post led me to believe you saw the confirmation, and I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

I hope your foot heals quickly and you will get a refund from this woman, who apparently is clueless about how important a timeshare contract is.

But I must admit to renting to a fellow TUGger recently without one, and all went well. Yes, I know better. She paid in full, and she is currently enjoying her week at the Sheraton Broadway Plantation, which she rented via the Rentals Offered board here on TUG.

 

[ace2000]

Since she still hasn't provided a confirmation for those dates, in your name, and she is being stubborn about going forward with the rental, I do hope you get a full refund of your money.

Why does everyone believe that the renter should provide a confirmation when less than 24 hours after the OP's payment, the OP notified the renter that she no longer wanted the unit?

Am I missing something?

 

[BocaBum99]

Why does everyone believe that the renter should provide a confirmation when less than 24 hours after the OP's payment, the OP notified the renter that she no longer wanted the unit?

Am I missing something?

No, you have it completely right. The OP came here to seek validation for disputing the charge with Paypal. She knows she made an agreement to rent the unit and even paid a deposit. The whole rest of this thread is a diversion around this fundamental fact. She should not be entitled to the money back, but she will probably get it. No worries. Karma never forgets.

 

[DeniseM]

Why does everyone believe that the renter should provide a confirmation when less than 24 hours after the OP's payment, the OP notified the renter that she no longer wanted the unit?

Am I missing something?

I think that she should produce the confirmation as proof that it existed. I don't think it ever did. If there was never a reservation made for the agreed upon dates - there was no deal. YMMV

 

[ace2000]

I contacted her Thursday night and then Friday morning, this happened. I didn't even have a confirmed reservation in my own name.

Denise,

I think you may be missing this information from the OP... In your opinion, did the renter even have a fair amount of time to put the reservation in the OP's name? The OP agreed to rent the unit, and then made a deposit, and then the very next morning she had the accident and notified the renter that she didn't want the unit...

Oh well, let's not let the facts get in the way of a guilt-free conscience...

 

[rickandcindy23]

Why does everyone believe that the renter should provide a confirmation when less than 24 hours after the OP's payment, the OP notified the renter that she no longer wanted the unit?

Am I missing something?

I don't know, Ace. I just know the original post made it seem as though she saw the confirmation, and then she said she didn't. But it's true she had no contract, so no terms to abide or not to abide.

 

[DeniseM]

Denise,

I think you may be missing this information from the OP... In your opinion, did the renter even have a fair amount of time to put the reservation in the OP's name? The OP agreed to rent the unit, and then made a deposit, and then the very next morning she had the accident and notified the renter that she didn't want the unit...

Oh well, let's not let the facts get in the way of a guilt-free conscience...

I'm not saying that the owner had time to put the reservation in the renter's name - I'm saying there was never a reservation for the dates they agreed upon.

1. The owner showed Jennifer a confirmation for DIFFERENT dates - why would she do that if she had a confirmation for the agreed upon dates?

2. When questioned about it (just last week) the owner said she could change the dates - note that the check-in date is this Sunday.

3. To confirm this, Jennifer (who is an owner at the same resort) called to check availability, and reservations told here that there was NO availability for those dates.

I don't think there was ever a reservation for the correct dates - nor could one be made - therefore - there was no deal. YMMV

 

[ace2000]

I'm not saying that the owner had time to put the reservation in the renter's name - I'm saying there was never a reservation for the dates they agreed upon.

1. The owner showed Jennifer a confirmation for DIFFERENT dates - why would she do that if she had a confirmation for the agreed upon dates?

Because the renter stated to the OP that she had to pay extra to reserve that week. The renter asked for and received a deposit before making that change. The OP stated that the resort did confirm to the OP that the renter did have the ability to get that week.

2. When questioned about it just last week, the owner said she could change the dates - note that the check-in date is this Sunday.

Agreed.

3. To confirm this, Jennifer (who is an owner at the same resort) called to check availability, and reservations told here that there was NO availability for those dates.

My answer to #1 applies here also.

I don't think there was ever a reservation for the correct dates - nor could one be made - therefore - there was no deal. YMMV

Agreed.

LOL - at least we have 50% agreement. I'm done with this one... have a nice day folks!

 

[DeniseM]

The OP stated that the resort did confirm to the OP that the renter did have the ability to get that week.

Where did you see that? - it was the owner who stated that she could get the week, even though there was no availability.

The resort told Jennifer it was not available.

I don't really think that this was a scam, but I do think this is a case of an owner who didn't really know how to manage the rental, and may have had some extra problems because they are out of the country. But either way - IMNSHO, if there is no reservation, and there is no availability to make a reservation - then there is no deal.

 

[kaio]

There seems to be a lot of miscommunication and lack of communication in regards to this rental. Under that context, I would expect most reputable Rentors to return a deposit based on Miscommunication, but this does seem a little more complex.

If Rentor failed to provide proof of the correct rental [dates, unit, etc], then the Rentee should ethically get a refund of the deposit at that point in time if the Rentor still failed to provide proof of the correct rental after the miscommunication which results in the Rentee backing out. [we know the real reason for backing out, but there is a lot for both parties to consider].

I think the rentee should have focused on the miscommunication and targeted that as the primary reason for cancelling and requesting a refund of the deposit and not brought up the personal reasons. Since the Rentee [regardless of whether the correct rental was available to her] backed out due to personal issues, the rentor should not have to refund the deposit and does not need to spend further time proving that the reservation could of actually existed as it possibly could have. Although Jennifer called the resort and found there was no availability for that week; who is to say the rentor acutally had another ownership with a reservation for that week and the miscommunication lies in the words "changing the dates" to "providing the correct reservation confirmation", but who's to know as at that point in time the rentor would not be obligated to spend time dealing with the rentee that is not proceeding. Also, sometimes resorts do hold a week for an owner for a few days, making it unavailable to others... not sure if this would be applicable if you already had a reservation in place though and were inquiring about changing the week.

My opinion is when there is a lot of miscommunication; the refund should be issued. But if the miscommunication does not have any relavence on the decision to back out of the rental... then I suppose it is up to the rentor to decide what is ethical to do... This sounds like a horrible situation to be in for the Rentee.... ! So Sorry you are experiencing this... But even if the correct reservation was provided to you, would you really forgo the deposit? [sorry, did not have time to read the entire thread] My personal opinion is that since the Rentee can no longer use the rental due to personal reasons, and because there was a lot of miscommunication, that is their fallback for a refund... but that should have been brought up immediately to the rentor to resolve/refund... with no mention of not following thru due to personal reasons.

edit: I jumped into this thread without reading everything, so I could be way off key... just my quick .02 cents.... this is a crazy scenerio to be in for either party

 

[ace2000]

The ONLY concern I had was that I called my resort too (why wouldn't I have??) to move my week up and I was told there was no availability. When I asked this woman about how SHE could move up in season but I could not, she said she had previously secured the week...

Denise, this is where the OP established that the resort confirmed to her on the phone that the renter could get that week. This is buried in a bunch of details in post #27 of this thread.

Edit: I think Boca summarized everything very clearly in his last post. The rest of the details really don't matter anymore. So, I don't really want to quibble about it. The other thing to mention is that the OP responded to a Redweek ad, but the ad was also on TUG. The renter and the OP are both TUG members. I'm sure there are two sides to this story.

 

[DeniseM]

IC - I interpreted "the woman" as being the owner.

However, if the owner had the confirmation for the right dates - why did she send the renter a confirmation for different dates? It just doesn't make any sense...

If the owner had presented Jennifer with a confirmation for the correct dates, then in my opinion, Jennifer was obligated to forfeit her deposit. But I don't think the confirmation ever existed - nor could it be reserved.

As someone who is on both ends of rentals at times, I think it's an interesting topic, and I think it has been a good lesson about how not to handle a rental.

 

[Ridewithme38]

As someone who is on both ends of rentals at times, I think it's an interesting topic, and I think it has been a good lesson about how not to handle a rental.

I agree with this

 

[ace2000]

Where did you see that? - it was the owner who stated that she could get the week, even though there was no availability.

After going back and re-reading the post with your slant, I'm willing to admit that you might be right on this interpretation. I didn't see that perspective earlier.

 

[DeniseM]

After going back and re-reading the post with your slant, I'm willing to admit that you might be right on this interpretation. I didn't see that perspective earlier.

I could be wrong, too - that's just my interpretation - the way this whole thing was handled makes it very confusing.