Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[Ridewithme38]

 

[Redrosesix]

Sooooo...

I've been watching this thread while I prepare to rent part of my timeshare for the very first time, and I think I finally have the gist of it...

1. get a signed rental agreement even if you think the terms of your rental are clearly spelled out in your ad and the communications with the renter -- check
2. make sure you have a cancellation clause in the agreement, otherwise the renter will expect to get their money back if they back out -- check
3. even if you use paypal, your money is not guaranteed because the renter can file a dispute with you and claim that you were scamming them -- check
4. if the renter is on TUG, stay away from the boards til well after the rental is completed -- check

What have I gotten myself into?

 

[teepeeca]

What about these "concerns"???

1. The reservation is NOT in the renter's name.
2. The dates on the "confirmed reservation" are NOT the dates rented.
3 The resort says that there is NO AVAILABILITY for the "rented" dates.
4. There has been no contact with the "owner" of the week.

Plus, there are other "problems". Right now, the renter CANNOT try to rent the unit/week --- she doesn't "own" that time, the original owner does. Has the resort "confirmed" the renter's name and date of occupancy? I don't think so. Now, for a minute, forget about the injury to the renter---just figure that she was "whole". Right now, she has absolutely NOTHING that says that she has use of any unit at that resort. Therefore, the "owner" hasn't performed, and the renter is entitled to the deposit back. (Simple contract law---performance not accomplished.)

Tony

I "still" like my previous post (#58?) quoted above. NO CONTRACT !!! Dates 'NOT" confirmed. Week NOT available (as far as I can see/confirm). Original $400 deposit given in anticipation (BY OWNER) that the correct dates/unit availability would be put in the renter's name (NOT DONE) "BEFORE" the final payment of the final $400 would be sent.

The original owner DID NOT PERFORM (in a timely manor, or otherwise). Therefore, the renter should get her deposit back. "PLEASE" tell me where I am "incorrect".

Tony

 

[Ridewithme38]

I still think we're making assumptions, until the rentee goes to the resort and can't check in we have no idea if the room is in her name or not...The agreement was $800 for the week of vacation...sending the confirmation to the rentee is something that should have been negotiated seperately...i rented three times off tug and was put as a guest on the week i bought and i NEVER saw a confirmation in my name...heck, i don't even know what a confirmation would look like

I don't think its fair to say that because the renter sent the wrong confirmation that they didn't already have the room/week booked...

If she goes and cant check in...then its failure to perform....since there was no contract, there was nothing that said a confirmation had to be sent to the rentee

 

[DeniseM]

Ride - when you rented, did you call the resort and confirm that your name was on the reservation?

If you called, and it wasn't on the reservation, would you consider that breach of contract? Or would you show up and hope you could check in with no reservation?

Don't you think it's a little late to wait until check-in to find out if you have someplace to stay?

If the owner promised a confirmation, and can't produce one - there is no deal. It would be extremely short-sighted to show up anyway.

For your own rentals - you are taking a big risk renting with no confirmation. If you show up at the resort and you have no reservation and no confirmation they are going to tell you to take a hike...

 

[WinniWoman]

I am just in the process of renting an overseas unit in Great Britain (from an American owner). She put the rental in my name first. (if I backed out, I assume she could have always changed it back into her name).Then, I received a confirmation e-mail from the resort rental dept. - they evidently consider me a "guest". Then, she sent me a contract - the one on TUG modified to fit the situation (for ex. PETS are allowed), and now I have signed it and am sending it back to her for her signature with the $400 = 1/2 deposit check. I called CSA for travel insurance, but to insure that deposit only for 3 people traveling would have been $77.00 - almost a quarter of the total deposit(you cannot add people on later, but you can take people off). So, because this trip is not scheduled until June 2012, we are forgoing travel insurance until we have to actually book flights and the rental car and make the final rental payment. We understand the deposit is non-refundable.
But, I guess if you are booking something last minute you have to bite the bullet and take out the travel insurance right away to cover the deposit first. You can get a policy that allows you to cancel for any reason, but in our case it would have been $99.00 on that $400 deposit.

 

[ace2000]

I "still" like my previous post (#58?) quoted above. NO CONTRACT !!! Dates 'NOT" confirmed. Week NOT available (as far as I can see/confirm). Original $400 deposit given in anticipation (BY OWNER) that the correct dates/unit availability would be put in the renter's name (NOT DONE) "BEFORE" the final payment of the final $400 would be sent.

The original owner DID NOT PERFORM (in a timely manor, or otherwise). Therefore, the renter should get her deposit back. "PLEASE" tell me where I am "incorrect".

Tony

The part you're missing (along with several others) is that the renter had to pay extra to get that week to put into the OP's name. Nobody is disputing the fact that it's better to have confirmation or a contract. But, why would the renter pay the extra $100 or $200 to get the reservation and the confirmation without a commitment from the OP first (via a deposit)?

If you read the OP's remarks closely, she paid the deposit on Thursday night (after verbally committing to and making the arrangements), and then emailed and called the renter the next day (within less than 24 hours) to inform the renter that she injured her leg. Is that giving the renter a fair amount of time to even get the confirmation? And after getting the word from the OP the next day after paying the deposit, are you still wanting the renter to produce a confirmation?

Then everyone wants to jump all over the renter for not communicating... what does everyone want the renter to communicate? The OP backed out of the deal the very next day. The OP was probably asking for at least a partial refund from the very first phone call after she claimed to have injured her leg. The OP made a deposit and backed out all within 24 hours...

The OP talked on the phone at least a couple of times with the renter (and even had the renter's phone number), plus we know that the renter is a TUG member and also a Redweek member. Still, so many here want to jump to conclusions that this is a scam. And then we even want to inform the OP (along with all the other readers of this thread) how she can get her money back in full from Paypal by filing a dispute. This is funny, because in the beginning all the OP wanted was just half of the deposit. We've just instructed all potential rentees a method of getting a full refund of their deposit money regardless of the reason, up to the travel date. All you have to do is tell Paypal that it looks like a scam. Paypal will almost always give the buyer the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps we should make this thread a sticky and make sure everyone is fully aware of how to get their deposits back that are paid thru Paypal. The thread has already had over 3000 views... so the word is out!

Other than all of those details, you really did a great job in your analysis...

 

[ace2000]

I am just in the process of renting an overseas unit in Great Britain (from an American owner). She put the rental in my name first. (if I backed out, I assume she could have always changed it back into her name).Then, I received a confirmation e-mail from the resort rental dept. - they evidently consider me a "guest". Then, she sent me a contract - the one on TUG modified to fit the situation (for ex. PETS are allowed), and now I have signed it and am sending it back to her for her signature with the $400 = 1/2 deposit check. I called CSA for travel insurance, but to insure that deposit only for 3 people traveling would have been $77.00 - almost a quarter of the total deposit(you cannot add people on later, but you can take people off). So, because this trip is not scheduled until June 2012, we are forgoing travel insurance until we have to actually book flights and the rental car and make the final rental payment. We understand the deposit is non-refundable.
But, I guess if you are booking something last minute you have to bite the bullet and take out the travel insurance right away to cover the deposit first. You can get a policy that allows you to cancel for any reason, but in our case it would have been $99.00 on that $400 deposit.

All you have to do is make your payment via Paypal and you won't have to worry about getting your deposit back if something was to go wrong or you happen to change your travel plans. Paypal will generally side with the buyer and refund your money. Be sure and come to TUG afterwards and tell your side of the story and then you'll get plenty of emotional support and some will tell you it's a scam anyhow, and you'll feel much better about it all ...

 

[WinniWoman]

All you have to do is make your payment via Paypal and you won't have to worry about getting your deposit back if something was to go wrong or you happen to change your travel plans. Paypal will generally side with the buyer and refund your money. Be sure and come to TUG afterwards and tell your side of the story and then you'll get plenty of emotional support and some will tell you it's a scam anyhow, and you'll feel much better about it all ...

Too late. I paid the deposit by check; I didn't want to bother with the pay pal fee. I did the same for a rental coming up in Yellowstone in Sept. I feel perfectly fine with it. I think you have to have a certain level of trust when you book a private rental. Be prudent; use common sense and hope for the best. Most of the time things work out. But there's always a possibility they might not and that's life. (Is that really treu that Paypal will side with the buyer all the time? That doesn't seem right!)

 

[brucecz]

An owner shold be willing to provide some proof that they have a right to the rental that is advertised and state that in their ad for better rental sucess. That helps me.

If it is a fixed week a deed and/or a copy of that years paid MF's will do.

If a flex type reservation a copy of the reservation with the reservation and account number blanked out.

Some resorts will and some resorts will not devulge if a person has a reservation because of privacy rules of that resort or resort chain.

Some resorts do not get a list of the persons checking in until 3 days before check in. The Lindo Mar is one resort like that.

We have had no problems with paypal. IMHO it inspires trust with renters.

Bruce

 

[jl2010]

I realize this is 2011 and our society pretty much has gone the way of the Ancient Romans, but do the right thing and pay the owner the remainder unless he/she can fill the rental or agrees to let you slide. It's called responsibility and respect and what was once considered the morally right thing to do. Talk to the owner and see what kind of agreement you can come to. This shouldn't even be a question.

JUST TO BE CLEAR...

There IS NO INDICATION that the landlord EVER put the rental "IN MY NAME". I cannot rent it out myself - it's not my reservation. I received no confirmation that the unit was ever placed in my name. The only thing I received was HER confirmation in HER name.

There was no rental agreement, and she never said anything about a cancellation fee. The rental was "off the market" less than 24 hours and as far as I can tell, is still advertised for rent on TUG and on redweek as available.

Had she stipulated a cancellation fee, I would have sent a $100 "token" amount first, before she transferred anything into my name, then sent the balance, which would have saved me $300.

Not to mention, as of this morning, I've received no reply, which in my estimation is highly unprofessional. I realize Paypal will likely not back me on this - and I also realize it's my "fault" for not completing the rental. I ALSO know that I will never know if this person actually rented their week or not - and it's not mine to rent as it's not even in my name. So there you go.

I would be willing to pay her, say, $100 for any costs, but that's as far as I can see going - to be fair. But it's real likely I'll get nothing.

And e.bram - good luck collecting the balance from me when there is no rental agreement (signed or otherwise) and there was no transfer of the reservation. For all I know, this was some kind of a scam.

 

[DeniseM]

I realize this is 2011 and our society pretty much has gone the way of the Ancient Romans, but do the right thing and pay the owner the remainder unless he/she can fill the rental or agrees to let you slide. It's called responsibility and respect and what was once considered the morally right thing to do. Talk to the owner and see what kind of agreement you can come to. This shouldn't even be a question.

The owner cannot rent the week - because it was never reserved - you might want to go back and read the rest of the thread. There is no reservation to rent.

 

[ampaholic]

Well I've been on "vacation" for a week so I have just come across this thread.

I only have one take away from this - This makes renting from RCI seem easy.

 

[markel]

The owner cannot rent the week - because it was never reserved - you might want to go back and read the rest of the thread. There is no reservation to rent.

I don't think this has officially been confirmed.

 

[Redrosesix]

I "still" like my previous post (#58?) quoted above. NO CONTRACT !!! Dates 'NOT" confirmed. Week NOT available (as far as I can see/confirm). Original $400 deposit given in anticipation (BY OWNER) that the correct dates/unit availability would be put in the renter's name (NOT DONE) "BEFORE" the final payment of the final $400 would be sent.

The original owner DID NOT PERFORM (in a timely manor, or otherwise). Therefore, the renter should get her deposit back. "PLEASE" tell me where I am "incorrect".

Tony

Legally there was a contract - although no rental agreement - that would hold up in most courts of law ie. renter agreed to pay for use of owner's suite for a set amount. We never saw the original listing or copies of any communications between them, or even the posted rules regarding rentals from the resort. And basically we're discussing events which took place over the time span of a few days, not weeks or months, where the owner was on a previously planned (obviously) trip to Asia (although the renter admits the owner still communicated to her from there).

The owner cannot rent the week - because it was never reserved - you might want to go back and read the rest of the thread. There is no reservation to rent.

I've read the whole thread, and I'm not so sure about this. We're only hearing one person's point of view.

And if I was the owner and I was reading here, I wouldn't jump in either. :annoyed:

 

[JudyS]

I said, "...I want to add to the chorus of voices saying that when you rent from a private owner, the general rule is no refunds."

And Theo disagreed and said,

With all due respect (and I'm not seeking to argue, take sides, or add any fuel to the fire) I do not subscribe to this "general rule" position.

Deposit, payment, cancellation, refund (and time frames for all the foregoing) terms should be very clearly specified within an executed, formal rental agreement. In the absence of same, I don't believe there is any "general rule", but instead just a wide and varied assortment of personal opinions and individual practices...

I agree that it is much, much better to have a written agreement spelling out the cancellation policy. My point was just that most TUG members who rent don't seem to offer refunds. I was surprised that the original poster didn't know that, since she has been on TUG for a while.

I don't actually think there are a wide variety of individuals practices among TUG members concerning refunds for rentals or deposits--I think the dominant practice is no refunds, except maybe in cases where the owner manages to re-rent the timeshare. However, I could be wrong about this. That's why I asked if any TUG members offer refunds on rentals. So far, no one has spoken up and said that they do.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't think this has officially been confirmed.

Exactly - the OP asked to see a confirmation, and the owner couldn't produce one, yet many here want her to pay for a reservation that has never been officially confirmed.

 

[ace2000]

Exactly - the OP asked to see a confirmation, and the owner couldn't produce one, yet many here want her to pay for a reservation that has never been officially confirmed.

I would expect the OP to make a good-faith deposit first, before I went to the trouble of paying extra out of my pocket to secure the week. I think most would do the exact same thing if they were the owner.

And that's exactly what happened in this case. However, a good-faith deposit means nothing if you pay through Paypal.

Edit: What does a deposit mean anymore? This is what troubles me the most about this thread.

Also, I've rented at least five units through TUG and/or Craigslist and none had any written agreement. Not saying it should or shouldn't be done that way, but not everyone follows 'your' rules.

 

[ace2000]

The owner cannot rent the week - because it was never reserved - you might want to go back and read the rest of the thread. There is no reservation to rent.

Denise,

There are two possible confirmations, the confirmation that the owner actually could secure the week, and the confirmation that the owner has placed the rental in the rentee's name. Which one are you talking about?

Also, if you read the very first paragraph of post #1, you'll see that the OP states that owner produced confirmation. Later in the thread the OP states something a little different. So, I think it's best to not make any conclusions here without getting both sides of this story.

 

[ace2000]

All right. Here's the story. And let me say, we have never rented privately before.

My husband & I were searching for a rental at our resort in Hilton Head for an earlier week than our scheduled week due to a potential conflict that might have prevented us from going to HHI during our booked week. We found an owner, who advertised here on TUG and also on Redweek, who was offering a week with a check in date of 7/24 - which worked almost perfectly for us. We exchanged several emails and telephone numbers. My husband moved his vacation days, etc. Per Redweek's rental guidelines, we agreed to send her 50% of the agreed-upon price ($400). She sent us a copy of her confirmed reservation and we agreed that we would send the balance when she transferred the reservation into our name.

Here is post #1...

 

[DeniseM]

Also, I've rented at least five units through TUG and/or Craigslist and none had any written agreement. Not saying it should or shouldn't be done that way, but not everyone follows 'your' rules.

I didn't actually say that everyone should use a written agreement - in fact I don't use one. However - I do recommend that every one who rents their timeshare should have clearly stated rental terms, that are sent, discussed, and agreed upon before any money changes hands. I state my rental terms in my Ads, then I email them to the renter, and then I list them on my Paypal invoice.

Recently someone emailed me after their trip, and said, "You told me that the tax was included in the rental." I was able to immediately forward to her the original email with the rental terms that I had previously sent her, and the confirmation, that clearly stated that the County of Maui would charge them tax upon check-out. At that point, she had to agree that I had provided that Info., and she just didn't read it - which unfortunately is not unusual.

Last week I sent a doctor emails 5 days in a row reminding him to make his final payment for a rental this month. No response - so I called him. On the phone he told me that he intended to pay the RESORT the final payment, and that in fact, he hadn't read any of my emails, after he got the confirmation, nor did he actually read the rental terms. He thought I worked for the resort, and just assumed that he could make the final payment at the resort! But again, I had the original email to forward him with the rental terms, and he paid immediately.

Recently, I saw an online rental contract that someone sent me, and I'm going to find out more about it. I liked it, because I signed it online - there was no mailing or faxing, so it was much more convenient than shuffling around a hard copy.

As far as debating the original subject of this thread any further, it was an interesting situation, but without knowing what the owner's intentions and actions were, we will never really know what happened. However, it was thought provoking and I learned a lot from it.

 

[oneohana]

Jennifer,

I hope you either got your money back or got the reservation in your name.
It appears that the renter was able to communicate before she got the money, but suddenly couldn't once she received the money.

I have rented many weeks out, and make it a priority to make good on the agreements made. Even if I'm away from my computer and/or phone.

It is surprising how many late inquiries one can get in a highly desirable location. Even one that requires airfare.

If this is not a scam, then it is a renter that is not too experienced in rentals IMO.
Or just a bad renter.

 

[yumdrey]

I am a renter!!

Thanks everyone who posted on this forum.
As a renter, I want to correct several things first :
1) I provided a correct (and the right dated) reservation confirmation to jennifer (so called.. OP) - however, she mentioned (here) that she couldn't secure the reservation. I provided a right reservation letter & informed her that no resort would reveal any reservation info to a third party without owner's permission. I can provide my original confirmation letter from Royal Dunes resort which I sent to OP, if you would enterain it, just send me an e-mail (I can e-mail back to you with a confirmation letter). It was a right date, for a right period for OP's request!

2) She paid deposit of $400 and wanted to back out of the deal because she broke her leg. she asked me a full refund for this accident from the date of 1.

3) At first, I was considering a full refund of her deposit because I was feeling so sad about her accident. I am a mother of three kids.
I was at my father's funeral, I was in Korea from July 7th though 24th. Like other tuggers mentioned, I didn't do roaming, it had two reasons - my father passed so suddenly and I didn't have time to do that.

4) If OP requested any furthuer info about this week and paid final payment, I could rent this week to OP. However, OP didn't have any interests on rental. She was keep asking me refund for full amount, she even didn't ask me to finalize this rental. She was not interested in this week at all.

Unlike she mentioned on this forum, I have NEVER RECEIVED any interesting e-mail from OP about renting this week at all. All she asked was a refund, refund and refund.

Once, I posted my week on TUG last minute rental and got quite many PMs and e-mails. Which were turned out to be brokers which I didn't want to rent.

It is very simple.
OP suggested a rental term (through e-mail). It was a last minute rental (within 2 weeks from check-in date), I agreed, sent her origianl confirmation letter which I got from Royal Dunes and got deposit of $400 from OP (after she got my confirmation letter).
I was about to send her "rental agreement", and all of a sudden, she wanted to back out, because she broke her leg.
Of couse, she had no interests in this week, she didn't ask to finalize renting this week at all.
I had no reason to change my reservation to a person who shows no interests.
If she (OP) paid the rental fee "in full " after she was checking my original confirmation letter, I could change the reservation into her name.
But she had no interest in rental of this week. Didn't recieve any e-mail which asked me to finalize the rental.

I got an e-mail from a new tugger who was interested in this week.
I rented this week to a new rentee. I offered a refund to OP for a difference which I got from a TUG member, it is $178. I offered an OP that I could provide a rental agreement between me and a new renter.

So who can blame whom??

I blamed OP that she posted so much lies and stories here (on TUG), and she asked me to "communicate on paypal communication only".

Maybe I will lose a whole deposit of $400 from OP, but I thought a fair renter would deserve something.

 

[DeniseM]

Hi Yumdrey and thank you for posting your side of the story.

Having clear cut rental terms that you agree to before you accept any money can solve a lot of problems before they happen. I'd be happy to send you the rental terms that I use, if you'd like.

I'm sorry about the loss of your father - it must have been a very stressful time for you.

 

[teepeeca]

INTERESTING !!!! "Both" sides of the story are now coming out. I hope that the seller/rentee of the week would show a "good faith" gesture, and refund the original renter the difference of the original agreed upon rental price and what was actually received.

The seller/rentee SHOULD NOT be out any $$$, due to taking a lesser amount for the unit.

I'm sorry that "things happen", and it might cost some dollars, BUT, I hope everybody "moves on", and there are no "hard feelings" on either side.

Tony