Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[BocaBum99]

Isn't it obvious that the OP just wanted to find support from this board to back out of the agreement? If it were me, I would rule in favor of the owner.

 

[chickenfoot]

Actually I just looked up on RedWeek and there doesn't appear to be any kind of deposit or cancellation guidelines....basically RedWeek appears to stay out of it entirely.

I know most don't care for escrow accounts but I used Redweek's service last year when I rented a TS in Cabo. It was was well worth the extra $125, which the owner and I split.

I was sent a legal contract that dealth with all the issues giving the OP angst. Contracts are good because each party has a clear understanding of the obligations. The contract even addressed damage to the unit.

Once I signed the contract, it required a 50% non-refundable deposit. The contract required the owner to send a confirmed reservation in my name within 24 hours - she did.

Since the money went to escrow, I never felt apprehensive about sending money via paypal to a stranger or unverified account.

BTW rentals less than 30 days out required full payment, non-refundable.

 

[yumdrey]

I know most don't care for escrow accounts but I used Redweek's service last year when I rented a TS in Cabo. It was was well worth the extra $125, which the owner and I split.

I was sent a legal contract that dealth with all the issues giving the OP angst. Contracts are good because each party has a clear understanding of the obligations. The contract even addressed damage to the unit.

Once I signed the contract, it required a 50% non-refundable deposit. The contract required the owner to send a confirmed reservation in my name within 24 hours - she did.

Since the money went to escrow, I never felt apprehensive about sending money via paypal to a stranger or unverified account.

BTW rentals less than 30 days out required full payment, non-refundable.

Thank you very much you stated "non-refundable" deposit.

 

[yumdrey]

for furthur info, I just called my business lawyer for more back-up.
I didn't want to go this far, but, OP wanted a full refund (or refund of $300), and even though I could swallow that loss (let sit it empty), I thought I could do something good for future renters.
$2,000 doesn't make difference in your life, but maybe can make a big difference for something!
I am paying that fees, while all the future renters can enjoy

 

[DeniseM]

yumdrey - I am confused -

I thought the deposit was $400?

Didn't you rent this week to someone else?

What are you referring to that costs $2,000?

Thank you!

 

[yumdrey]

yumdrey - I am confused -

I thought the deposit was $400?

Didn't you rent this week to someone else?

What are you referring to that costs $2,000?

Thank you!

Hi Denise,
I could rent this week for $800 to a new rentee.
I offered OP for refund of the balance of difference ($178) which respect paypal fee. I offered her to provide any e-mail or fax of new agreement as a proof. OP doesn't agree any of this at all (as of yet).
She is still asking me a refund of $300.
I mentioned about $2000 in this thread, because I am paying an attorney fee of $2000 to solve this situation. even if it is exceed my plan, I am still thinking that someone (maybe a TS renter) could get a benefit from this case.

 

[vckempson]

To the OP. Accept the $178 and be thankful you didn't have to pony up another $400.

The gall of you to try and weezle your way out of a contract. And don't give us any crap about not having a contract. You had an agreement, it just wasn't in writing yet. Worse yet, you used this forum to help you try and do it. This deal was on the up and up from day one but you chose to latch onto the slimmest of chances that this was a scam just to garner support here. Shameful, just so shameful. Live up to your commitments for crying out loud.

I don't know about any other Tuggers, but I get sick and tired of people having a sense of entitlement... that they should be due things at the expense of others around them.

 

[ace2000]

To the OP. Accept the $178 and be thankful you didn't have to pony up another $400.

The gall of you to try and weezle your way out of a contract. And don't give us any crap about not having a contract. You had an agreement, it just wasn't in writing yet. Worse yet, you used this forum to help you try and do it.

Worse yet, this forum responded and gave the OP all the help she needed in getting her a full deposit back, plus a guilt-free conscience. It was kind of sad really... especially when a lot of that help came from TUG renters. You could probably search my posts on this thread and see at least 5 different times that I said we haven't heard the whole story yet. Still, many wanted to jump to their own conclusions... especially the scam theories and the supposed red flags that were raised.

I would be amazed if Paypal doesn't refund the OP the full deposit amount of $400.

Thank you yumdrey for clearing up the story, and based on the fact that you did offer $178 to the OP, I have a lot of respect for you for doing the right thing.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ace and Boca were right all along. Yumdrey is a longtime TUG member, not a con artist, and the OP SAID SHE HAD A CONFIRMATION. Then she said it was for the wrong dates, on a later post.

My intial reaction was correct. The red flags others kept pointing out were not what they seemed. I learned a lesson: never jump to conclusions. And a TUG member who is highly respected here on TUG is losing money to an attorney over the principle of this bad rental.

 

[theo]

"Choosing" is not quite the same as "losing"...

...a TUG member who is highly respected here on TUG is losing money to an attorney...

Owner here has apparently chosen to pay an attorney $2,000 (a larcenous amount, in my opinion) to resolve a personal dispute which could have been resolved for far less without any lawyer involvement...:annoyed:

 

[rickandcindy23]

Owner here has apparently chosen to pay an attorney $2,000 (a larcenous amount, in my opinion) to resolve a personal dispute which could have been resolved for far less without any lawyer involvement...:annoyed:

Good thing it wasn't your last-minute rental. It's easy to criticize someone else, when it's really all about empathy. We just recently rented a last-minute week in Myrtle Beach to a TUG member, and fortunately for me, it all went very well, and she never tried to get a refund. Sometimes it is not just about money, it's about being right.

 

[Happytravels]

Thanks for the reminder

we have a rental in less then two weeks..........all monies have been recieved months ago but STILL KNOW RENTAL AGREETMENT SIGNED...I just re-emailed the rental agreement again....thanks TUGGERS you ROCK!!!!!



PS update..........within minutes I got a signed rental agreement!!!!!!!!!!!!! yyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaa all is good..thanks you guys...

 

[theo]

Howzzat again now???

Good thing it wasn't your last-minute rental. It's easy to criticize someone else, when it's really all about empathy.

No criticism was stated, implied or intended. My observation, to repeat, is that there didn't have to be lawyers involved in the first place, and that paying $2k to involve one was a choice, not a necessity.

 

[rickandcindy23]

No criticism was stated, implied or intended. My observation, to repeat, is that there didn't ever to be lawyers involved in the first place, and that paying $2k to involve one was a choice --- not a necessity...

No offense taken. I see what you mean now.

I feel badly myself for following the, "there was no contract, therefore no rental," mantra. I think Jennifer is making this an issue on TUG that deserved to be kept between her and the longtime TUG member. I wondered if it was someone we knew, or if it was just a TUG lurker. Now we know, and the information has me back-pedaling a bit.

 

[Redrosesix]

Isn't it obvious that the OP just wanted to find support from this board to back out of the agreement? If it were me, I would rule in favor of the owner.

Totally. And I agree - the owner shouldn't be out any money because the OP didn't have trip insurance.

Worse yet, this forum responded and gave the OP all the help she needed in getting her a full deposit back, plus a guilt-free conscience. It was kind of sad really... especially when a lot of that help came from TUG renters. You could probably search my posts on this thread and see at least 5 different times that I said we haven't heard the whole story yet. Still, many wanted to jump to their own conclusions... especially the scam theories and the supposed red flags that were raised.

I would be amazed if Paypal doesn't refund the OP the full deposit amount of $400.

Thank you yumdrey for clearing up the story, and based on the fact that you did offer $178 to the OP, I have a lot of respect for you for doing the right thing.

This was pretty scary - especially since we knew the owner was a Tugger and was out of the country. The squeaky wheel does always get the most grease.

But I'm happy you posted here Yumdry -- I'm not so sure I'd have had the nerve to do it after all that had been said here. And so sorry to hear about your father. I hope this mess gets sorted out easily for you now that the OP knows she won't get much sympathy here.

 

[Ridewithme38]

But I'm happy you posted here Yumdry -- I'm not so sure I'd have had the nerve to do it after all that had been said here. And so sorry to hear about your father. I hope this mess gets sorted out easily for you now that the OP knows she won't get much sympathy here.

I wonder if the OP will repost and clarify what she meant when she said the confirmation she got wasn't for the right date...she didn't seem like the type that would our right lie...there still seems to be some confusion

 

[markel]

I wonder if the OP will repost and clarify what she meant when she said the confirmation she got wasn't for the right date...she didn't seem like the type that would our right lie...there still seems to be some confusion

I'd be surprised if the OP posts again. It is clear to me that she is after one thing and one thing only, her deposit. Remember, she said that she was willing to give up $100, but I'd guess that her Paypal dispute is for the whole deposit of $400. I agree with the majority here who hve posted, the renter (OP) doesn't deserve a dime back. Very shameful of her. Should be interesting to see if we ever hear from Jennifer again concerning this matter.

Mark

 

[yumdrey]

Owner here has apparently chosen to pay an attorney $2,000 (a larcenous amount, in my opinion) to resolve a personal dispute which could have been resolved for far less without any lawyer involvement...:annoyed:

Theo,
I didn't pay lawyer fee yet, I forwarded all e-mail and paypal communication to my business lawyer. I meant I am ready to pay expensive lawyer fee if needed.
Unless paypal is doing anything wrong, I can save that fee

 

[theo]

Different version now...

Theo,
I didn't pay lawyer fee yet, I forwarded all e-mail and paypal communication to my business lawyer. I meant I am ready to pay expensive lawyer fee if needed.
Unless paypal is doing anything wrong, I can save that fee

Previously, your exact words (quoted verbatim from post #156 above) were:

"... I am paying an attorney fee of $2,000 to solve this situation."

Seemed clear. I assumed (apparently mistakenly) that you meant what you said and said what you meant...

 

[ampaholic]

Previously, your exact words (quoted verbatim from post #156 above) were:

"... I am paying an attorney fee of $2,000 to solve this situation."

Seemed clear. I assumed (apparently mistakenly) that you meant what you said and said what you meant...

Theo:

From reading Yumdrey's posts I am of the opinion that English is not this persons first language.

If this is so it might explain some of the communication related issues in this thread.

 

[LisaH]

Theo:

From reading Yumdrey's posts I am of the opinion that English is not this persons first language.

If this is so it might explain some of the communication related issues in this thread.

Agreed......

 

[foreverloves]

Well! Here's the follow up to the situation.

I have been negotiating for several days with the seller, who has provided some...let's just call them "interesting" facts here.

As a matter of course, I contacted my father in law and brother in law, who are both Pennsylvania attorneys. This was only AFTER the seller threatened with a lawyer and gave me the address of said attorney. I get free legal advice from those people, but I don't throw out there that I "have attorneys" in my family. I'm not like that.

The primary situation here is that the seller is not entitled to retain monies when there is no agreement (either email, written, or verbal) for liquidated damages. I realize many of you charge up front, in full, and provide no refunds for rentals, and as long as your renters agree to this up front, best of luck to you.

However, when a buyer does NOT agree, it is not 'assumed' or 'standard practice' or anything like that. You may think so, but it's not. Until there is an agreement between the parties, it is simply not enforceable.

After much discussion, I asked for proof that the Seller suffered a loss. How do I know s/he is not just claiming she rented for less and ultimately rented for the same amount - or more? A rental agreement does not provide that information. A rental agreement provides information about terms and length of stay. Cancelled checks, money orders, or verified paypal information that show the amount paid to the seller, do.

When I asked for this information, the seller told me she would not provide this. Again: The seller is NOT ENTITLED to retain anything for the 'loss' they may have suffered unless there is an AGREEMENT that allows this. But I was willing to at least evaluate the information and see if we could reach a fair solution based upon the facts, not just what the seller was telling me.

The unit was re-rented and the seller was apparently made whole. But the seller continues to keep our cash, without anything in writing stating why. I like what Denise told me at one point; she said (not exactly quoting, but...) "I'd say, 'Well, if you can't complete the rental, then I am keeping this money...are you still wanting to cancel?' " At least then I WOULD HAVE KNOWN!! Frankly, if I knew I was going to eat the entire thing, I would have called my inlaws or sister and seen if they had wanted the unit. And answering "Oh it's always that way" or "You should have known" are not acceptable defenses. Sorry. That's why you sign agreements - so that everyone knows everything they need to.

I have absolutely NO idea where the $178 figure came from - I really don't. I can't substantiate it. Taking a partial settlement with no understanding as to why just doesn't cut it for me. That's what they make small claims court for. I live in PA and she lives in Maryland from what I understand - it's not a far drive.

Mods can prove where people's IP comes from. I'm at home, btw. Not just some scam to back out, as some have suggested; I have a doctor's report that I was willing to provide to prove the situation, she didn't want it. I offered my phone number several times, she didn't want it until AFTER she started talking about attorneys. Then she offered me a phone number and I'm sorry, but once someone starts talking attorneys, it's not wise to speak by phone. I didn't think we were "there yet", but she brought it there. Okay, fine.

Bottom line is that I have wasted numerous hours of my life on this nonsense, and what I have from the seller is: 1. No confirmation that this reservation was EVER in my name; 2. A promise on July 18th via email that s/he would refund me and (her words) "let paypal do their job" - which was misleading 3. Several compromises that I have offered that have been refused and finally 4. Refusal to provide documents that support her claim of a loss.

Courts look for agreements (either verbal, written, or even in email). Courts look for statements like "non refundable" or any information that supports a seller's contention that an item's deposit or payment would not be refunded. I'm sure many of you at least mention this in emails or have your renters sign agreements which state this. She did not. Then she re-rented and keeps our cash anyway; never gave us a chance to find a renter for her, never transferred the item into our name.

I'm not engaging in an argument, but I wanted to update.

 

[VivianLynne]

I have a very clear picture of this thread NOW.

Thanks for your lastest and most revealing update. Good-bye.

 

[hellolani]

None of the facts stated by either party match up

From what I can tell the actual dollar value currently in contention is $122. From the original $400 deposit paid by OP, she wants $300 refunded and yumdrey offered her $178. Though I understand that the source of the conflict are the principles of decency and integrity on both sides, it seems a fairly paltry sum to lose sleep over, let alone calling in attorneys.

Also, I saw above that yumdrey offered to show her new rental agreement to Jennifer detailing how she rented for a lower amount, and asserts that she did change the week to Jennifer's name.

Jennifer equally denies that either of the above are true.

When you don't even have a confirmed set of facts to deal with, all that's left is the credibility of each poster.

 

[ace2000]

The primary situation here is that the seller is not entitled to retain monies when there is no agreement (either email, written, or verbal) for liquidated damages. I realize many of you charge up front, in full, and provide no refunds for rentals, and as long as your renters agree to this up front, best of luck to you.

Seems like you did have some kind of verbal agreement before you sent your money.

Not sure what you're worried about. You'll probably get your money refunded via Paypal (even though I strongly disagree that you should). Then it will be up to the owner to pursue it through the courts if she follows through with her threat. This thread could go on for awhile, but it sure is interesting.