Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[BocaBum99]

JUST TO BE CLEAR...

There IS NO INDICATION that the landlord EVER put the rental "IN MY NAME". I cannot rent it out myself - it's not my reservation. I received no confirmation that the unit was ever placed in my name. The only thing I received was HER confirmation in HER name.

There was no rental agreement, and she never said anything about a cancellation fee. The rental was "off the market" less than 24 hours and as far as I can tell, is still advertised for rent on TUG and on redweek as available.

Had she stipulated a cancellation fee, I would have sent a $100 "token" amount first, before she transferred anything into my name, then sent the balance, which would have saved me $300.

Not to mention, as of this morning, I've received no reply, which in my estimation is highly unprofessional. I realize Paypal will likely not back me on this - and I also realize it's my "fault" for not completing the rental. I ALSO know that I will never know if this person actually rented their week or not - and it's not mine to rent as it's not even in my name. So there you go.

I would be willing to pay her, say, $100 for any costs, but that's as far as I can see going - to be fair. But it's real likely I'll get nothing.

And e.bram - good luck collecting the balance from me when there is no rental agreement (signed or otherwise) and there was no transfer of the reservation. For all I know, this was some kind of a scam.

You asked our opinion. Almost everyone agrees that you rented the unit and it is yours. The only person trying to scam anyone is you.

 

[foreverloves]

I guess TUGgers trust too much. You both needed a contract, but all standard contracts for rentals always say you lose your deposit, no matter what.

So you didn't get a contract, and now you want to back out of the rental because there was no contract? The owner didn't even make you pay in full, even though the rental is so close. All rental contracts require full payment <60 days out. And if this doesn't go your way, you won't rent again? I think you could at least try to find someone to take the week, but that's just me. No one else seems to agree.

There is not an exchange on RCI or II or anywhere for HHI or MB for all of summer, and this owner could have gotten someone to take it who would follow through.

You own at the resort, too, and you knew you could make a simple phone call to ensure this is a legitimate owner, with a week to rent. You probably did that. Now you want a refund, less than one week before the rental starts. I think you are asking way too much. It's not the owner's fault you broke your foot.

Take which week? The week that isn't even in my name and wasn't transferred into my name as far as I know? I do own at the resort and I did check to see if the week was legit - and actually, it wasn't a confirmed reservation! There's a convoluted reason for this; basically the owner was going to secure a reservation outside of her season and pay the upgrade fee (which I was going to pay for at the resort). So her reservation was actually for ANOTHER week in the same season I own. I couldn't confirm the correct dates until she made the phone calls. How could I pay in full for a week that wasn't even confirmed?

Denise, I'm surprised! I read almost all of your thread where you made your paypal mistake and that was "your fault" too, even though it was an honest error. In my case, it wasn't my "fault" either. And I will never know if the owner actually rented it or not apparently. It seems that this owner, who will not return a phone call or email, could get a last minute renter, make all of her money, AND keep my $400. I realize this may be legit, but it seems awfully nasty to me. And not even writing to me to say "I'm keeping the money?" Sheesh.

I say I won't rent again because if this were my own week, I'd deposit it and at least have some use. Now I've sent money to someone and received nothing in return. I'd rather own than rent - at least I'd have something for my 400 bucks instead of an empty email box, no explanation, and no week at all. This is a very high demand time at HHI; I'm pretty confident the owner will rent it, even last minute. Then she'll have her rental and my deposit too. Doesn't sound fair, but I'll take my lumps.

 

[ace2000]

Jennifer, you've just added fuel to the fire with your previous comments. You're obviously posting on TUG, and trying to justify getting your $400 deposit back in some manner. Sorry, don't think you're going to get that kind of support here. Could be wrong... we'll see.

 

[foreverloves]

You asked our opinion. Almost everyone agrees that you rented the unit and it is yours. The only person trying to scam anyone is you.

Wow - thanks Boca! "Scam"? That's an awfully inflammatory statement to make. I realize I asked; I'm a bit sorry I did. I suppose if the owner rents the unit at the last minute and keeps my deposit (and who knows who else's if this happens more than once!) she's not the scammer. But I am.

Gotcha.


Maybe I should change my email signature to reflect this new-found knowledge I have about myself, which you so graciously enlightened me with.

Thanks for the advice!

Jennifer
CERTIFIED SCAMMER. (?)

 

[vckempson]

If I were the seller, I'd delay putting the week into your name so I could first try to re-rent it. If it's still listed then she's doing what she can to rent it and maybe get some or all of your money back. That's a sign of her trying to mitigate the damages, not scam you.

While it's obvious you'll not send the balance due, it's equally obvious to the rest of us that you shouldn't get any money back unless the owner does rent it out to someone else. The fact that you booked it less than 24 hours before your accident is absolutely irrelevant. Timeshare rentals just don't work like that.

 

[foreverloves]

Jennifer, you've just added fuel to the fire with your previous comments. You're obviously posting on TUG, and trying to justify getting your $400 deposit back in some manner. Sorry, don't think you're going to get that kind of support here. Could be wrong... we'll see.

Not sure I understand what that means, I answered comments, but like I said, I'm taking my lumps. The original owner never answered me, so she gets to keep my cash. I see everyone's logic and wasn't trying to be inflammatory. My only real point was that there was no rental agreement, and no explanation about the loss of a deposit, especially when the cancellation happened almost immediately. But that is apparently the name of the game, so I get that. I wish it had gone differently and I don't think it's fair for the owner to (potentially) rent out the week even at the last minute, and keep the deposit too. When I worked as a leasing manager for an apartment building I wasn't even allowed to do that.

I would think, I've been a TUG member for over a year and I own as well, that I would not be called a "scammer" or anything else. That wasn't my intention; why would I "scam" someone at a resort that I own and love?? I guess I think, if it were ME, I would refund some of the money. Apparently I think differently than others (majority). That's okay. Moreoever, I've never rented before, so I think that makes a different - either renting as a renter (timeshare) or renting as a landlord. My perspective might be different if I had rented out one of my weeks and this happened. Although I DO think I would at least answer the renter by email to explain. Again, that is just me.

Thank you, again, for all of the advice! I think the situation is pretty well resolved.

 

[rickandcindy23]

For all I know, this was some kind of a scam.

Really? You paid this person, they showed you a reservation in their name, and you own at the same resort, yet you call this a scam? There was apparently trust this was legitimate, or why would you pay?

You just want to get out of this rental. I don't know why this owner didn't make you pay in full, then you would be out all of the money. Read any timeshare rental agreement.

I told you it won't be difficult to find another renter for the week for this co-owner at your home resort. Why don't you try? Call the resort and see if they have demand for this week as a rental? It's not too late to save face here.

 

[Cargojon]

Really? You paid this person, they showed you a reservation in their name, and you own at the same resort, yet you call this a scam? There was apparently trust this was legitimate, or why would you pay?

You just want to get out of this rental. I don't know why this owner didn't make you pay in full, then you would be out all of the money. Read any timeshare rental agreement.

I told you it won't be difficult to find another renter for the week for this co-owner at your home resort. Why don't you try? Call the resort and see if they have demand for this week as a rental? It's not too late to save face here.

I'm sure she would, if there had been one.

 

[chriskre]

I think this thread shows why it's so well worth belonging to an exchange company and having the ability to buy trip insurance.
Life happens.

OP, I hope you're feeling better soon but would chalk this one up to experience. I doubt you'll get paypal to side with you. Next year use RCI.

 

[timeos2]

Add my support for the 100% (as I read it) prevailing TUG opinion that you should not get back any money UNLESS the owner somehow manages to get it rented for more than what you still owe.

When you've been injured and have in your mind that you should get a break from a previous deal you made it can be hard to see that what you're asking isn't fair to the other owner. Either try to go & make the best of it or plan to eat at least the $400 you already paid. Expecting it to be returned just isn't right.

Hope that the owner - who appears to be completely on the up & up - is able to rent it for more than the $400 balance. In that case they would owe you any overage. On the other hand if to get get it rented at the last minute they need to lower the cost to that $400 balance then you should expect no money returned. It simply isn't their fault you got hurt and, as others said, all sales are final.

 

[DeniseM]

I think this thread shows why it's so well worth belonging to an exchange company and having the ability to buy trip insurance.

You don't have to belong to an exchange company to buy travel insurance - you can buy it independently.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm sure she would, if there had been one.

Doesn't matter. There was a verbal agreement between the two of them. Right is right, and she is wrong, and that's all there is to it.

I am saying that if she had a written agreement, those all have the < 60 days payment in full included, and she would be out more money. She should be glad she didn't have one, as it seems she is out $400 and won't pay more. The owner isn't likely coming back at her for the rest, even though the owner is fully entitled to a full payment of $800.

 

[DeniseM]

I think this points out the importance of having clear rental terms. I am assuming that the seller did not email you her rental terms?

Did she send you an invoice for the payment, or did you just send her a payment?

Has she accepted the payment? (Look in your Paypal Acct. - does is say "complete.")

Did you talk to her on the phone or do anything to verify that this is legitimate rental? Your statement that she is "out of the country" and hasn't responded is a bit concerning.

Did she confirm that she received your deposit in any way?

When were you supposed to receive the confirmation?

Even if you hadn't had your accident, I would be concerned about this rental - there are some red flags, and you don't have clear rental terms.

 

[Cargojon]

Doesn't matter. There was a verbal agreement between the two of them. Right is right, and she is wrong, and that's all there is to it.

I am saying that if she had a written agreement, those all have the < 60 days payment in full included, and she would be out more money. She should be glad she didn't have one, as it seems she is out $400 and won't pay more. The owner isn't likely coming back at her for the rest, even though the owner is fully entitled to a full payment of $800.

You don't know much about the practice of law, do you? Ask any competent attorney and your bolded statement would be shot down quickly.

 

[kmordjana]

renting

I rent out all of my timeshares and I always let my renter know it is a $500 non-refundable deposit, I then put the reservation in their name and request the rest of the money due for the rental 30-45 days out.

I always send them a reminder via email at 60 days out, and if they do not come up with the rest of the funds I post it for rent and hope I can rent it out. Sometimes I cannot because its now last minute and then the renter always tries to talk my price down, so in reality its a no win situation for both parties sometimes.

I hope everything works out for you

 

[rickandcindy23]

You don't know much about the practice of law, do you? Ask any competent attorney and your bolded statement would be shot down quickly.

I can empathize with the owners of the week. My opinion is that she is wrong, and that is MY opinion. She is trying to get out of an agreement, made via emails, and emails are considered in lawsuits.

But the owner of the week is entitled to full payment.

 

[Cargojon]

I can empathize with the owners of the week. My opinion is that she is wrong, and that is MY opinion. She is trying to get out of an agreement, made via emails, and emails are considered in lawsuits.

But the owner of the week is entitled to full payment.

You're entitled to your opinion.

An agreement made via e-mails is a long shot away from a legal contract.

 

[Cargojon]

PS - this whole thread has convinced me never to rent out any of my timeshares, that's for sure....or to consider renting them out, either.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Per Redweek's rental guidelines, we agreed to send her 50% of the agreed-upon price ($400). She sent us a copy of her confirmed reservation and we agreed that we would send the balance when she transferred the reservation into our name. I paid the $400 via paypal using my Paypal credit card.

Maybe, but the underlying issue of substance is still cancellation policy, an issue which is not cited as having even been mentioned within the listing and which was apparently never addressed by separate formal rental agreement...

What else does Redweek's rental guidelines say about that 50% deposit? I figure if you sited those as the plan you were following...the cancelation policy language might have been in that info also

IMO, the deposit is her's...i wouldn't expect that money back...and with the short notice...you may have caused this women not to be able to rent at all...i know it wasn't intentional...but instead of the $800 she wanted for the week...she's going to get $400...thats a big loss, for something that wasn't her fault

 

[vckempson]

You're entitled to your opinion.

An agreement made via e-mails is a long shot away from a legal contract.

Agreements do NOT have to be in writing to be enforceable. For what it's worth, e-mails do have the means to represent an enforceable contract, if it's clear as to what they are agreeing on. Any business contracts 101 course will cover this.

 

[e.bram]

They had rental contract, and if not entirely explicit, common sense dictates the terms.

 

[foreverloves]

I think this points out the importance of having clear rental terms. I am assuming that the seller did not email you her rental terms?

Did she send you an invoice for the payment, or did you just send her a payment?

Has she accepted the payment? (Look in your Paypal Acct. - does is say "complete.")

Did you talk to her on the phone or do anything to verify that this is legitimate rental? Your statement that she is "out of the country" and hasn't responded is a bit concerning.

Did she confirm that she received your deposit in any way?

When were you supposed to receive the confirmation?

Even if you hadn't had your accident, I would be concerned about this rental - there are some red flags, and you don't have clear rental terms.

Okay, I'll try...

She never spelled out her rental terms. I offered to sign a rental agreement and she said she would send one - she did not. She never said "Whatever you send me I'm keeping - no cancellations". Never. If she had, this wouldn't be an argument.

For the record, if I had signed an agreement, I would pay whatever necessary and chalk it up. It's an agreement. I get that.

Never confirmed any receipt of money. The transaction shows as "completed" in my paypal, so she has her money.

The only "confirmation" I received was HER week in HER name. It was, to my knowledge, never transferred to my name. The week on the reservation wasn't the week I was getting. This did not concern me because my resort allows people to 'move up' in season for a fee. I was going to pay that fee. The ONLY concern I had was that I called my resort too (why wouldn't I have??) to move my week up and I was told there was no availability. When I asked this woman about how SHE could move up in season but I could not, she said she had previously secured the week, even though the reservation didn't reflect that.

I called her on the phone twice. She acknowledged (via email) that she received those calls but that she was in Asia and didn't pay for roaming. I gave her my home phone number several times and she has not called. She has not emailed since Friday, not even to say "tough luck, I'm keeping the money". Nothing.

She sent no invoice. She asked me to send the money and I did. I was fully prepared to complete the rental. I was not trying to scam anyone. I have respect for those who own and rent timeshares. Her paypal account, I discovered later, was unverified, which doesn't make me happy. (Mine is verified and confirmed).

I was not willing to pay for the entire rental upfront until I was certain that the reservation was in my name for the correct dates, even at that late of a date, I was not comfortable. I don't know this person - never spoke on the phone - no way. If that's the way rentals run, I won't do that. I don't see how that's smart.

IF I HAD SIGNED A CONTRACT, I would pay whatever I needed to and move on. I didn't.

IF I WAS IN A POSITION TO RENT THIS WEEK FOR HER, I would help in some way. It is no different than breaking your lease at an apartment and finding a new tenant. I used to do this for a living, I get that. But I can't do anything because it's not my week, it's not in my name, and I have not heard from this person since Friday.

Where I stand, as a renter, is that I sent a deposit to someone without a rental agreement in place. I never received any information that stated that the rental was transferred into my name.

I mean, I'm sorry, but I'm really surprised. I think I shoudn't be, but I am. If this happened to me (as an owner) what I would think is:

1. Even if I refund 1/2, that's $200 more than I had. This week might go unrented, but because of this person's situation, I at least made $200 for essentially less than 24 hours of time and doing nothing more than trading emails.

2. I lost virtually no time 'on the market', so I really didn't lose potential renters here. If I had tied this woman up for a week or something, I could see forfeiting all of it, because that person might have found a renter, but couldn't because of me. It wasn't like that. The week wasn't transferred to my name. Essentially, this is like it never happened for her. She made $400 for providing nothing, and still has her week - in her name - to rent, even at the last minute.

Moreover, I will apparently never know if this person rents the week or not. I don't see how this is fair. She may not rent the week, and I get that. Being on the hook for her not renting it seems unfair to me, but okay. However, if she rents it, she keeps my money and the other renter's money too? How is this okay? Is this just how 'rentals work'? In that case, that's why I do not have any interest in renting. If I own, I can deposit my week - I have choices.

Fundamentally, this is not how I would act. If I were the owner, I'd realize that in the absence of a rental agreement, my situation is a bit shaky. I'd tell the renter I'm keeping half and refund half. I'm making $200 for doing nothing. This owner did nothing. Now, if the reservation had been transferred to the renter, or they had signed an agreement to the contrary, I'd enforce that.

I realize that I am decidedly in the minority and that everyone apparently has very obvious and emotional opinions about renting and views that do not coincide with my own about what is "fair". Personally, I would not keep someone's deposit in its entirety in this circumstance, but it is QUITE CLEAR no one agrees with that, and I get that.

I am mindful and respectful of everyone's views on the subject, but I do not appreciate being called a "scammer", or being told that I am "just trying to get out of payment" or anything like that. You may disagree with my position, but I am not a person who does anything unless I am convinced of my convictions. I have reasons why I feel as I do, and I believe they are relatively balanced, reasonable, and supported by facts and not just emotion. I respect those who disagree, but do not wish to be disparaged for disagreeing.

 

[Cargojon]

What else does Redweek's rental guidelines say about that 50% deposit? I figure if you sited those as the plan you were following...the cancelation policy language might have been in that info also

IMO, the deposit is her's...i wouldn't expect that money back...and with the short notice...you may have caused this women not to be able to rent at all...i know it wasn't intentional...but instead of the $800 she wanted for the week...she's going to get $400...thats a big loss, for something that wasn't her fault

I think you and I both know that timeshare would have went un-rented. The OP stated it was less than 24 hours between initial deposit and cancellation.

Actually I just looked up on RedWeek and there doesn't appear to be any kind of deposit or cancellation guidelines....basically RedWeek appears to stay out of it entirely.

 

[Cargojon]

Dispute it with your credit card company. Hopefully you had a CC attached to your paypal account.

Then, run for the board of the resort's association, find this person, and report thousands of dollars of unpaid maintenance fees to the credit bureaus and trash their credit. :hysterical:

 

[vckempson]

I realize that I am decidedly in the minority and that everyone apparently has very obvious and emotional opinions about renting and views that do not coincide with my own about what is "fair". Personally, I would not keep someone's deposit in its entirety in this circumstance, but it is QUITE CLEAR no one agrees with that, and I get that.

Your view on what is fair is not important, unless it goes above and beyond what is required by law. Eveyone here but you is clear that you should not get anything back from your deposit unless the owner rents it out for more than the $400 balance owed. That is the fundementally correct legal outcome. The additional $400 is up in the air and debatable. What's also not subject to debate is that you're entitled to a refund if the owner rents it for anything above and beyond the $400 remaining on your contract. She can't keep the excess. That would be theft. If you doubt these conclusions, go talk to a lawyer.