Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[DeniseM]

Jennifer - I don't think I would have agreed to this rental in the first place. You basically went into this blind. Even if you still wanted this rental, I see some red flags that I would be concerned about:

1. she's out of the country - big red flag!
2. you've had no contact with her, except for emails
3. you have no rental terms
4. when you called the resort, they told you there was no availability
5. her Paypal Acct. is unverified
6. she promised to send you a contract and did not do so
7. no response after you sent the payment 5 days ago (Thurs.)

If it were me, I would dispute the charge with Paypal immediately, not because you want to cancel, but because the owner has basically dropped off the map - you can dispute it on the basis of non-performance. 5 days is to long with no communication. YMMV

Good luck!

 

[rickandcindy23]

Dispute it with your credit card company. Hopefully you had a CC attached to your paypal account.

Then, run for the board of the resort's association, find this person, and report thousands of dollars of unpaid maintenance fees to the credit bureaus and trash their credit. :hysterical:

What did the resort's owner do to Jennifer, that Jennifer should be vindictive?

Jennifer, if you feel you were being scammed, than by all means, dispute the charge with your CC company and Paypal.

 

[ace2000]

Jennifer - I don't think I would have agreed to this rental in the first place. You basically went into this blind. Even if you still wanted this rental, I see some red flags that I would be concerned about:

1. she's out of the country - big red flag!
2. you've had no contact with her, except for emails
3. you have no rental terms
4. when you called the resort, they told you there was no availability
5. her Paypal Acct. is unverified
6. she promised to send you a contract and did not do so
7. no response after you sent the payment 5 days ago (Thurs.)

If it were me, I would dispute the charge with Paypal immediately, not because you want to cancel, but because the owner has basically dropped off the map - you can dispute it on the basis of non-performance. 5 days is to long with no communication. YMMV

Good luck!

LOL - To me, this appears to be the ol' throw as much stuff against the wall and see what sticks technique... again, I would advise the OP to do what your conscience allows you to do. If it was me, I'd look at the $400 loss as a big savings compared to what I would have spent if I'd gone. Perhaps that's just me...

I'm sorry, but I see nothing about this transaction to justify coming to the conclusion that this is any kind of scam. Yes, I've read all of the points stated.

 

[rickandcindy23]

, I would advise the OP to do what you're conscience allows to do. If it was me, I'd look at the $400 loss as a big savings compared to what I would have spend if I'd gone. Perhaps that's just me...

I agree completely. The owner of this week is probably away from the internet currently, and certainly answering a cell phone from out of the country is not cheap.

The resort says the name of the owner is on the reservation, though. I don't know how you get around that.

 

[DeniseM]

LOL - To me, this appears to be the ol' throw as much stuff against the wall and see what sticks technique... again, I would advise the OP to do what you're conscience allows to do. If it was me, I'd look at the $400 loss as a big savings compared to what I would have spend if I'd gone. Perhaps that's just me...

Absolutely not! If Jennifer posted and said: "I haven't heard from the owner for 5 days after I sent her the deposit - what should I do?" my answer would have been 100% the same. The fact that she wants to get out of the rental does not change the fact that this was a very shaky deal from the beginning. The facts speak for themselves.

*My natural inclination is to take the side of the owner - because I am usually the owner in these deals - but I would never have offered, or accepted, such a loosey-goosy rental. YMMV

 

[ace2000]

Gee, I see the two of you were quick enough to capture my two grammar errors above. Dang it! Should've proofed before submit!

:hysterical:

 

[rickandcindy23]

Gee, I see the two of you were quick enough to capture my two grammar errors above. Dang it! Should've proofed before submit!

:hysterical:

Well, I typed their instead of there and went back to proof, after I submitted. I do that often, and I know better. I type way too fast.

 

[teepeeca]

What about these "concerns"???

1. The reservation is NOT in the renter's name.
2. The dates on the "confirmed reservation" are NOT the dates rented.
3 The resort says that there is NO AVAILABILITY for the "rented" dates.
4. There has been no contact with the "owner" of the week.

Plus, there are other "problems". Right now, the renter CANNOT try to rent the unit/week --- she doesn't "own" that time, the original owner does. Has the resort "confirmed" the renter's name and date of occupancy? I don't think so. Now, for a minute, forget about the injury to the renter---just figure that she was "whole". Right now, she has absolutely NOTHING that says that she has use of any unit at that resort. Therefore, the "owner" hasn't performed, and the renter is entitled to the deposit back. (Simple contract law---performance not accomplished.)

Tony

 

[memereDoris]

Jennifer - I don't think I would have agreed to this rental in the first place. You basically went into this blind. Even if you still wanted this rental, I see some red flags that I would be concerned about:

1. she's out of the country - big red flag!
People do take holidays
2. you've had no contact with her, except for emails
I often only have email contact with renters. I can't answer my phone at work.
3. you have no rental terms
There definitely should have been some terms.
4. when you called the resort, they told you there was no availability
If the date was already booked by the renter this makes sense.
5. her Paypal Acct. is unverified
A definite deal breaker.
6. she promised to send you a contract and did not do so
Another deal breaker.
7. no response after you sent the payment 5 days ago (Thurs.)
By now, there should be a confirmation in your name.

If it were me, I would dispute the charge with Paypal immediately, not because you want to cancel, but because the owner has basically dropped off the map - you can dispute it on the basis of non-performance. 5 days is to long with no communication. YMMV

Good luck!

I would also be very concerned on the basis of non-performance. In normal circumstances, I also would not return the deposit for last minute rentals. The lack of communication makes this unusual circumstances.

 

[dougp26364]

JUST TO BE CLEAR...

There IS NO INDICATION that the landlord EVER put the rental "IN MY NAME". I cannot rent it out myself - it's not my reservation. I received no confirmation that the unit was ever placed in my name. The only thing I received was HER confirmation in HER name.

There was no rental agreement, and she never said anything about a cancellation fee. The rental was "off the market" less than 24 hours and as far as I can tell, is still advertised for rent on TUG and on redweek as available.

Had she stipulated a cancellation fee, I would have sent a $100 "token" amount first, before she transferred anything into my name, then sent the balance, which would have saved me $300.

Not to mention, as of this morning, I've received no reply, which in my estimation is highly unprofessional. I realize Paypal will likely not back me on this - and I also realize it's my "fault" for not completing the rental. I ALSO know that I will never know if this person actually rented their week or not - and it's not mine to rent as it's not even in my name. So there you go.

I would be willing to pay her, say, $100 for any costs, but that's as far as I can see going - to be fair. But it's real likely I'll get nothing.

And e.bram - good luck collecting the balance from me when there is no rental agreement (signed or otherwise) and there was no transfer of the reservation. For all I know, this was some kind of a scam.

There is a verbal rental agreement that you entered into when you sent a check. That's enough to prove your intention to rent the unit per the rental add.

She did not need to say anything about a cancelation fee. Unless it is spelled out that such a policy existed at the time of the rental, it can be assumed there is no policy in place. You cancel, you forfit any money deposited. There is nothing stating you will get your money back that you could enforce.

Again I'll say, you have failed to protect yourself. Either by getting everything in writing before sending money or by failing to buy travel insurance that would protect you should you not be able to travel due to covered reasons. Health has always been a covered reason with any travel insurance policy I've purchased.

You might not want to admit it but, you screwed up. You got nothing in writing, you have no insurance to protect you and now you're out $400. There is nothing I can see that you can do about it. Your mistake, your loss. Don't make the same mistake twice.

 

[DeniseM]

1. she's out of the country - big red flag!
People do take holidays

True - but this is also the hallmark of a scam. Every scam renter that contact me claims to be in another country.

4. when you called the resort, they told you there was no availability

If the date was already booked by the renter this makes sense.

It wasn't - the confirmation that the owner sent her is for a DIFFERENT date.

 

[dougp26364]

Really? You paid this person, they showed you a reservation in their name, and you own at the same resort, yet you call this a scam? There was apparently trust this was legitimate, or why would you pay?

You just want to get out of this rental. I don't know why this owner didn't make you pay in full, then you would be out all of the money. Read any timeshare rental agreement.

I told you it won't be difficult to find another renter for the week for this co-owner at your home resort. Why don't you try? Call the resort and see if they have demand for this week as a rental? It's not too late to save face here.

I think the issue is she can't rent what she doesn't have. There is nothing in writing. Would you rent this week from her with no proof she has a reservation? She can't re-rent her rental week when she has no reservation in her name.

While I will find her at fault for not doing her homework better, I will side with her in that the owner of the week hasn't provided any information and returned calls/e-mails up until they got her money. For all any of us know, she just got scammed out of $400. All shes seen is a reservation in someone else's name. After that, all communication stopped.

I wonder, has the original owner re-listed this week her on TUG or Redweek? Are they actively trying to rent the same week again or, are they out of the country and are unable to access their own E-mail or cell phone service. Personally when we go out of the country I make sure that I can be reached when necessary but, I do know people who leave with little to no way of contacting them. It might not be smart but I do know people who do it.

 

[ace2000]

It wasn't - the confirmation that the owner sent her is for a DIFFERENT date.

This has not been proven... it's all based on the OP's conjecture. I'd love to hear the other side of this one. Perhaps we will... since it was a TUG member. This thread could get interesting...


Seriously, it is a terrible set of circumstances... and I hope it works out fairly in the end.

 

[DeniseM]

The OP stated that the reservation that the owner sent her was not for the dates she wants. Why would you send someone a confirmation for the WRONG dates, if you had a confirmation for the RIGHT dates?

 

[Cargojon]

Your view on what is fair is not important, unless it goes above and beyond what is required by law. Everyone here but you is clear that you should not get anything back from your deposit unless the owner rents it out for more than the $400 balance owed. That is the fundementally correct legal outcome. The additional $400 is up in the air and debatable. What's also not subject to debate is that you're entitled to a refund if the owner rents it for anything above and beyond the $400 remaining on your contract. She can't keep the excess. That would be theft. If you doubt these conclusions, go talk to a lawyer.

Don't speak for me. Or Denise. Or the several other folks later in this thread that disagree with you.

Again, there is no contract. Read more of this thread.

 

[dougp26364]

Absolutely not! If Jennifer posted and said: "I haven't heard from the owner for 5 days after I sent her the deposit - what should I do?" my answer would have been 100% the same. The fact that she wants to get out of the rental does not change the fact that this was a very shaky deal from the beginning. The facts speak for themselves.

*My natural inclination is to take the side of the owner - because I am usually the owner in these deals - but I would never have offered, or accepted, such a loosey-goosy rental. YMMV

I think this is the big lesson that should be learned. Never just send money without having everything in writing up front. KNOW what the agreement is for and if there is a cancelation policy/penalty. One shouldn't just send money to someone they don't know without at least having something in writing. Renting a timeshare from an individual is definately not the same as renting a hotel room or directly from a vacation resort.

 

[ace2000]

The OP stated that the reservation that the owner sent her was not for the dates she wants. Why would you send someone a confirmation for the WRONG dates, if you had a confirmation for the RIGHT dates?

I must have missed that... I thought the OP found that out by calling the resort. If that is the case, why didn't the OP include that detail in the original post.

I probably missed it though... thanks for the clarification. I don't have time to go back and re-read and verify what you're saying.

 

[DeniseM]

That info. was in a follow-up post:

Take which week? The week that isn't even in my name and wasn't transferred into my name as far as I know? I do own at the resort and I did check to see if the week was legit - and actually, it wasn't a confirmed reservation! There's a convoluted reason for this; basically the owner was going to secure a reservation outside of her season and pay the upgrade fee (which I was going to pay for at the resort). So her reservation was actually for ANOTHER week in the same season I own. I couldn't confirm the correct dates until she made the phone calls. How could I pay in full for a week that wasn't even confirmed?

 

[Ridewithme38]

There is a chance that the rental is a scam, it does have some of the makings of a scam...But i thought the OP was about what money she could get back because she broke her leg and couldn't travel?

IMO, if you break you leg after putting down a deposit, especially on such short notice, IMO you shouldn't get that deposit back...

Now we can fight back and forth to find other ways for her to get the money back, with 'maybes', 'possiblities' and 'could bes'...but unless she goes to the resort and tries to check in....and can't...there isn't any 'non-performance'...Its just a lazy salemen

 

[rickandcindy23]

Take which week? The week that isn't even in my name and wasn't transferred into my name as far as I know? I do own at the resort and I did check to see if the week was legit - and actually, it wasn't a confirmed reservation! There's a convoluted reason for this; basically the owner was going to secure a reservation outside of her season and pay the upgrade fee (which I was going to pay for at the resort). So her reservation was actually for ANOTHER week in the same season I own. I couldn't confirm the correct dates until she made the phone calls. How could I pay in full for a week that wasn't even confirmed?

Why post this way down in the thread, instead of posting it in the original? You said in the original post that this owner sent you a confirmation and your husband changed his vacation dates. That makes a huge difference. I went back to find this post, when Ace said he didn't want to go back and check the entire thread, which is long now.

Maybe this person was hoping to get a week in a different season and didn't get it, but as an owner, you would have easy access to the management company to ask. I would do that....

 

[DeniseM]

There is a chance that the rental is a scam, it does have some of the makings of a scam...But i thought the OP was about what money she could get back because she broke her leg and couldn't travel?

IMO, if you break you leg after putting down a deposit, especially on such short notice, IMO you shouldn't get that deposit back...

Now we can fight back and forth to find other ways for her to get the money back, with 'maybes', 'possiblities' and 'could bes'...but unless she goes to the resort and tries to check in....and can't...there isn't any 'non-performance'...Its just a lazy salemen

Ride - you are incorrect. If the owner does not send her a confirmation for the agreed upon dates - that is clearly non-performance. Right now, the owner has the money, and Jennifer has nothing, and the owner had not responded for 5 days.

Taking the broken leg completely out of it - I would dispute the $400 deposit under these circumstances. I think there is a high probability that this is a scam, or an incompetent owner who cannot produce the promised confirmation.

 

[Cargojon]

What kills me is that the TS owner has not responded to the OP in several days, to say anything at all.

That to me is very telling.

 

[DeniseM]

Why post this way down in the thread, instead of posting it in the original? You said in the original post that this owner sent you a confirmation and your husband changed his vacation dates. That makes a huge difference. I went back to find this post, when Ace said he didn't want to go back and check the entire thread, which is long now.

Maybe this person was hoping to get a week in a different season and didn't get it, but as an owner, you would have easy access to the management company to ask. I would do that....

Cindy - Jennifer is an owner too, and she stated that when she called reservations, they told her that there was no availability for her dates. You can't blame Jennifer, because you didn't read all the posts. My guess is that Jennifer doesn't have a lot of experience with rentals.

 

[timeos2]

Ride - you are incorrect. If the owner does not send her a confirmation for the agreed upon dates - that is clearly non-performance. Right now, the owner has the money, and Jennifer has nothing, and the owner had not responded for 5 days.

Taking the broken leg completely out of it - I would dispute the $400 deposit under these circumstances. I think there is a high probability that this is a scam, or an incompetent owner who cannot produce the promised confirmation.

Have o totally disagree. The contract was sealed when the deposit was laid but the name change isn't due until the balance is paid in full.

Many years ago I was 18 & buying mh second car ever. Perfect, 5000 1969 Camera 4 speed - gave the seller a $300 down payment to hold it (only $1900 total - what would it be today?). I broke my leg two days later, couldn't drive a stick for 3 + months, so I asked for the deposit back. No go. A deal is a deal - otherwise why give them the $ to start with? $300 was A LOT to an 18 yo bug I learned my lesson. Not the buyers fault I got hurt. Same type thing I'd say.

No way can it be twisted that the seller owes the $400 to the purchaser. Sorry.

 

[DeniseM]

John - I don't believe those were the terms, (and I use that the word "terms" very loosely) because she said she was following Redweek's recommendations which are:

1) Pay 50% up front
2) Receive the confirmation in your name
3) Pay the balance in full.

What is the point in making 2 payments, if you don't get any kind of confirmation until after you make the 2nd payment? Might as well pay it all upfront, if you are going to do this.

The OP made the deposit on Thursday via Paypal, the owner accepted it - this requires action on her part (so we know she had internet access) and the OP has had no response from the owner since then.

It's been 5 days with zero communication, and the check-in date is THIS SUNDAY - 7/24 - how long would you let it go until you took action?