Electric Vehicles Climb to 10% Of New Cars Sold

[MrockStar]

I agree with you that the transition will take a while. I also think there will be a segment of stanch hold-outs who just like gas.
But I disagree with you about hybrids. I think those will likely phase out entirely. Instead, you see a few hybrid-engineered features being added to gas cars to increase efficiency but never to run entirely on battery.
The issue with hybrids is just more things that can break. Instead of being the best of both worlds, it's the worst of both worlds. Most people inclined to buy a hybrid will now just go electric.

My hybrid civic is over 250,000 trouble-free miles and still going strong. Best car I have owned. I would buy another one any day over a fully EV powered car. No charging or range anxiety issues for me.

 

[slip]

My hybrid civic is over 250,000 trouble-free miles and still going strong. Best car I have owned. I would buy another one any day over a fully EV powered car. No charging or range anxiety issues for me.

How long have you owned that car? It would take me forever to put that many miles on.

In Wisconsin, I would put on about 6,000 miles a year. In our 3 years on Oahu we went down to just under 4,000 a year. Now we just completed our first year on Molokai and we only went 3,000 miles in the last year.

It would take me over 83 years to put on that many miles.

 

[emeryjre]

The core problem with sodium batteries right now is lower energy density from the core material. Producers are hard at work trying to figure out ways to increase energy density - but lithium will always have a higher energy density than sodium at the end of the day. This tends to work better in China because of various demographic differences - I'm not so sure it'll catch on as quickly here in the US but only time will tell. There are many promising technological improvements for all battery types currently in development and some have already been deployed. For example, all of the Standard Range (and Plus) Tesla Model 3's now ship with LFP batteries - or Lithium Iron Phosphate - which doesn't have any of the precious metals such as Cobalt or Nickel for example - that are more rare an more difficult to mine. LFP batteries enjoy the same benefits as Sodium - they don't lose charging efficiency over time (they drop to about 90% and stay at 90% for the life of the battery) - they don't lose efficiency/charge in the cold nearly as much - and they charge more quickly (less resistance) - but they are less energy dense so the range is lower.

Sodium Batteries will compete on cost. Lithium will be more expensive as a raw material. The difference in energy density will be offset by quick charging without complex circuits. I think a new car selling for low price will be a hit in dense urban areas. Still waiting for CATL rollout of their sodium batteries. They are supposedly highest energy density sodium battery in the market. The US still has very limited lithium production.

 

[MrockStar]

How long have you owned that car? It would take me forever to put that many miles on.

In Wisconsin, I would put on about 6,000 miles a year. In our 3 years on Oahu we went down to just under 4,000 a year. Now we just completed our first year on Molokai and we only went 3,000 miles in the last year.

It would take me over 83 years to put on that many miles.

I bought it in 2005 its a 2003 and had 71,000 miles from the original owner.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Sodium Batteries will compete on cost. Lithium will be more expensive as a raw material. The difference in energy density will be offset by quick charging without complex circuits. I think a new car selling for low price will be a hit in dense urban areas. Still waiting for CATL rollout of their sodium batteries. They are supposedly highest energy density sodium battery in the market. The US still has very limited lithium production.

The US doesn't really have any lithium mines or refining capabilities today unfortunately. Tesla is bringing one of the first larger lithium refineries online later this year in TX - not far from the Gigatexas factory area from what I've gathered. Agreed that sodium is cheaper from a raw materials standpoint. CATL is claiming 160wh/kg for their newest SI batteries - which is decent. The best LFP batteries are around 150-160wh/kg so SI is in the right sweet spot for lower priced vehicles with more limited range as you indicated. Tesla's 2170 LI batteries are around 269wh/kg at present - whereas the newer 4680 are rumored to actually be lower at around 244wh/kg despite hype - meaning that the primary advantage for the 4680 packs comes down to lower cost - which is very important in reality - at around $3k less per pack when compared to the 2170 Panasonic packs. We really still need to see more breakthroughs in battery technology to promote better range for non-urban settings I think.

 

[emeryjre]

There cost structure of EVs will break down to battery costs. Want more range, buy a higher capacity battery. The new Ford F150 is a perfect example. The problem with evolving battery technology will be the cost of a new plant to build a battery. The manufacturers will want to recover their investment in battery manufacturing before integrating anything more than incremental changes in current technolgy. So a new battery will have to be incredibly better and worthy of the investment. The world is locking in current battery technology in the new plants being planned.

 

[slip]

I bought it in 2005 its a 2003 and had 71,000 miles from the original owner.

Probably about average.

 

[easyrider]

My hybrid civic is over 250,000 trouble-free miles and still going strong. Best car I have owned. I would buy another one any day over a fully EV powered car. No charging or range anxiety issues for me.

If we ever purchase any type of electric car it would be a hybrid. We rented a Honda Accord hybrid and drove it for 3 weeks on aout 3/4 tank of gas. I think we were at 45 mpg+. The Accord was zippy and fun to drive, imo.

Bill

 

[Superchief]

If we ever purchase any type of electric car it would be a hybrid. We rented a Honda Accord hybrid and drove it for 3 weeks on aout 3/4 tank of gas. I think we were at 45 mpg+. The Accord was zippy and fun to drive, imo.

Bill

I agree. The only problem is that some auto makers like Acura are stopping development of hybrids and moving to all electric due to political incentives and pressure. I hope to be able to by a hybrid Hyundai Santa Fe in the next couple of years and it will likely be our last car.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

My wife has a 2016 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, and its been a great car. I have Honda Ridgeline and its been the perfect truck for me. I am hoping they come out with a hybrid or electric by the time i need a replacement.

 

[Luanne]

My hairdresser and I were discussing electric vehicles. It seems like several people both know have recently purchased Teslas. My hairdresser was telling me that a friend of his who owns an electric told him it took them about 3 additional hours to make a trip from New Mexico to California I think. They had to stop to charge the car, and in many cases wait until someone else was done at the charging station. So they may be great for short hops, but not so great for longer trips. He also said these same people when they would drive from Santa Fe to Albuquerque (about an hour drive) if they were going straight down and back (like for a Costco run) they were fine, but if they had other errands again they would have to charge up before they came home. Whole thing sounds very complicated and not very convenient to me.

I have a hybrid which I got at the end of 2021. I've been very happy with it.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

My hairdresser and I were discussing electric vehicles. It seems like several people both know have recently purchased Teslas. My hairdresser was telling me that a friend of his who owns an electric told him it took them about 3 additional hours to make a trip from New Mexico to California I think. They had to stop to charge the car, and in many cases wait until someone else was done at the charging station. So they may be great for short hops, but not so great for longer trips. He also said these same people when they would drive from Santa Fe to Albuquerque (about an hour drive) if they were going straight down and back (like for a Costco run) they were fine, but if they had other errands again they would have to charge up before they came home. Whole thing sounds very complicated and not very convenient to me.

I have a hybrid which I got at the end of 2021. I've been very happy with it.

@Luanne thanks for these real-world experiences...if I can't even pop around town for half a dozen errands without needing a charge that is quite a drawback.

 

[TUGBrian]

oh look, folks ruin another thread.

growing real tired of deleting nonsense posts from folks who cant act like adults on the internet.

 

[Superchief]

I am learning a lot about EV's on this thread. I assume that hybrids require smaller batteries that may be made from different elements. How do the battery requirements for the hybrids differ from the EV's? Do they ever require costly replacement batteries?

 

[Superchief]

Also dates me. I learned to drive with a VW beetle manual transmission - (battery under the back seat)

I learned to drive a stick shift in an old army surplus jeep on the hilly streets in Cincinnati. The battery was dead so we had to push start it every time it stalled. We learned not to stall it pretty quickly.

 

[Ken555]

My hairdresser and I were discussing electric vehicles. It seems like several people both know have recently purchased Teslas. My hairdresser was telling me that a friend of his who owns an electric told him it took them about 3 additional hours to make a trip from New Mexico to California I think. They had to stop to charge the car, and in many cases wait until someone else was done at the charging station. So they may be great for short hops, but not so great for longer trips. He also said these same people when they would drive from Santa Fe to Albuquerque (about an hour drive) if they were going straight down and back (like for a Costco run) they were fine, but if they had other errands again they would have to charge up before they came home. Whole thing sounds very complicated and not very convenient to me.

I have a hybrid which I got at the end of 2021. I've been very happy with it.

EVs are great for city driving. They are also great for long distance, but you have to plan your day carefully. As long as your expectations are set based on reality you’ll be fine.

I don’t know any informed consumer who believes that an EV will replace your gas or hybrid and offer the exact same benefits.

In Addition to your friends experience, I’ve driving with friends long distance in a Tesla and we had a slow charger which added extra time to our trip. We also had a broken charger. Stuff happens. It’s definitely not as easy as a gas car for long distance, and is also exactly as I expected based on what I knew before the trip…so I wasn’t surprised. I was disappointed, but that’s a different issue.

I want an EV for city driving… but I’m also in no rush, since I drive so little it’s not financially smart for me to buy one. I want one nonetheless, and probably will get one next, but I’m in no rush. The tech and the price keep getting better the longer I wait, so I’m good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TheHolleys87]

My hairdresser and I were discussing electric vehicles. It seems like several people both know have recently purchased Teslas. My hairdresser was telling me that a friend of his who owns an electric told him it took them about 3 additional hours to make a trip from New Mexico to California I think. They had to stop to charge the car, and in many cases wait until someone else was done at the charging station. So they may be great for short hops, but not so great for longer trips. He also said these same people when they would drive from Santa Fe to Albuquerque (about an hour drive) if they were going straight down and back (like for a Costco run) they were fine, but if they had other errands again they would have to charge up before they came home. Whole thing sounds very complicated and not very convenient to me.

I have a hybrid which I got at the end of 2021. I've been very happy with it.

The April issue of Consumer Reports magazine, always devoted to cars, has a nice infographic on the inside back page showing the maximum driving range for EVs. (There’s a detailed article about EVs inside.) The Mazda MX-30 can go only 100 miles before needing a charge! But the Lucid Air has a range of 469 miles with the Tesla S and the Tesla 3 getting 405 and 358, respectively. Other EVs were between those two extremes. So I wonder, did the hairdresser’s friend have a Tesla or a different EV?

 

[Superchief]

I actually owned several electric cars when I was young. They were part of my race car track set. The power was generated from the track and didn't require batteries at all. These cars were very fast but tended to crash a lot.

 

[Passepartout]

I am learning a lot about EV's on this thread. I assume that hybrids require smaller batteries that may be made from different elements. How do the battery requirements for the hybrids differ from the EV's? Do they ever require costly replacement batteries?

our Honda PHEV has a 17 kWh hybrid battery that when new provided about 60 miles of full EV use. After almost 5 years, it has lost some 1/3 of it's EV range, and it's Winter, so some of that range will come back when it gets warmer. At some point it might not provide enough range for day-to-day around town use. We will probably explore and pencil-out trading it in or putting in a rebuilt battery when that time comes. Not unlike having an ICE vehicle when you weigh the 'trade it or fix it' option.

you can get rebuilt hybrid batteries on Amazon. Check prices there.

 

[easyrider]

My sister bought a new Prius. It looks better than the old style Prius. Most of the time this car runs on battery only because they can plug it in to charge the battery up. The car is so quiet that occasionally they forget to turn it off. This winter we rented a Honda CRV hybrid to drive to an airport. The startling thing for me was it would turn off the engine at red lights. The first time it did this was on a freeway interchange in heavy traffic. I think removing my foot off the brake turned it back on. This vehicle would warn me that my eyes were not on the road and then slow down. I did enjoy driving the Honda Accord hybrid we rented in Hawaii but I doubt I would purchase one.

We don't see too many ev's in our area. Some state agencies in our area have charging stations and ev's in their fleet but for the regular public it looks like it's mostly suv and trucks that run on gas or diesel.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

you can get rebuilt hybrid batteries on Amazon. Check prices there.

I would not buy rebuilt hybrid batteries on Amazon. Amazon is rife with counterfeits and hustles. Li Ion chemistry is tricky enough, I would look for a brick and mortar store that stands by their work before I would put it in my car.

IDK if the same is for hybrid cars, but when they changed the battery in my EV (Chevy Bolt), they had to reprogram the car to accept the new battery.

 

[emeryjre]

Here is a review of some compact 2023 SUV hybrids. Includes specs and prices.

Green car reports has good reviews and provides a quick overview of what is happening in the EV/Hybrid world. No subscription required.

2023 Kia Sportage Hybrid rated at up to 43 mpg, priced at $28,545

The Sportage Hybrid has recently been rated at up to 43 mpg—beating the most efficient versions of all its hybrid rivals without a charge port.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[Brett]

My wife offered to help jumpstart a dead battery with her Toyota Highlander hybrid.
They spent 10 minutes looking for the battery to attach the jumper cables -- where's the battery ?

 

[PigsDad]

My wife offered to help jumpstart a dead battery with her Toyota Highlander hybrid.
They spent 10 minutes looking for the battery to attach the jumper cables -- where's the battery ?

It can be a challenge in some cars these days! The battery in my Macan is actually under the rear passenger seat, accessed through a panel in the trunk (damn German engineers ). However, there are remote battery ports under the hood, close to the windshield for jumping. I'd bet your wife ran into a similar situation.

Kurt

 

[DrQ]

It can be a challenge in some cars these days! The battery in my Macan is actually under the rear passenger seat, accessed through a panel in the trunk (damn German engineers ). However, there are remote battery ports under the hood, close to the windshield for jumping. I'd bet your wife ran into a similar situation.

Kurt

This was the same setup for my Genesis G80 (traded), battery in the trunk and my GV70 (current), battery is under the deck in the cargo area. There is a positive jump post in the engine compartment.