Electric Vehicles Climb to 10% Of New Cars Sold

[Ken555]

Tesla's long term business plan has them dropping down to a 20% market share between now and 2030 basically. This is all in their plans already in other words - and fully expected as others race to bring BEVs to market ahead of the current market leader.

We have a Tesla on order effective 3/14/2023 - something we have been considering for quite some time now. We have been stockholders for about seven years now. This is our first foray into an actual Tesla product purchase - and I must say it takes some getting used to compared to the dealer model that everyone is familiar with in the marketplace. On a few occasions now I've literally had my finger on the cancel button due to some frustrations with the online ordering and particularly the guesswork over the delivery process. We worked hard to find a MY in existing inventory and put in our order on a matching vehicle with a specific status of "vehicle in transit" on 3/14/2023 with an EDD (Estimated Delivery Date) of 3/24-3/31, specifically because the IRS/Treasury is getting ready to provide more explicit guidance on the battery source components and assembly requirements that will impact how much of the $7500 tax credit purchasers are eligible to receive. These regs are due to change any day now - sometime in March as the IRS site clearly states - and the current legal regs state that when these changes are announced - the existing tax credit regs will change within two days of the announcement - so if you don't actually take delivery of your vehicle by the day after these changes are announced - you'll be subject to the new guidance - which is almost assuredly going to be a good bit less than the full $7500 federal tax credit. This is why we tried to find a vehicle in existing inventory - to take delivery before end of month and maximize our chances of keeping the full tax credit amount.

Fast forward to 3/21/2023 and no change to the EDD after a week gone by. Actually speaking to anyone at Tesla is next to impossible - the only method of communication that is persistently supported is text messaging - which as you might imagine is hit or miss at best. I texted asking for an update on delivery timeframe. I was then told the vehicle, which was manufactured in Freemont, CA, is still pinging in Freemont, CA. Ugh - then why is it even listed as "vehicle in transit"? Still no update today. Many many other folks who order through Tesla that had dates of late March - though in these cases a custom order not an order from existing inventory - are getting pushed out to late April or May or even June. These folks aren't exactly happy campers. To date, I've had what I would characterize as a pretty miserable customer experience during the pre-sales process with Tesla. I would caution anyone if you decide to purchase a Tesla via a custom order - just be aware that you'll get it when you get it and it could be months. Even if you order via existing inventory - don't necessarily expect to receive it any time soon - as is the case with my order. We're now being told it'll be early April timeframe, at best, due to transportation delays. This means we may well lose out on the full $7500 tax credit - which means dependent upon how much we lose - we may cancel our order. Tesla really needs to work on providing accurate information to their customers for delivery timeframes. The rule of thumb I've always worked by in pre-sales is to set the bar low on expectations - and then if you beat those low expectations - you come in ahead with the customer as you have exceeded expectations - Tesla seems to take the exact opposite approach - so I wonder about their leadership capabilities if this is how they do business. This is coming from a long time stockholder mind you - so I'm likely being especially hard on Tesla - but since this is literally the only way to purchase a new vehicle from this manufacturer - their processes have a long long way to go to deliver good customer experiences in my view - and with new BEVs entering the marketplace on a weekly basis right now - if Tesla doesn't get their act together - they are only going to accelerate their market share decline.

After so many similar reports, I am amazed you weren’t prepared for this eventuality. Tesla is notorious for delaying delivery.


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[HitchHiker71]

After so many similar reports, I am amazed you weren’t prepared for this eventuality. Tesla is notorious for delaying delivery.


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Had I made a custom order I would fully have expected to be in the same boat as everyone else. What surprised me was ordering from existing inventory with a vehicle status of “vehicle in transit” clearly stated on the website, only to later find out that the vehicle is not yet in transit and is sitting in Freemont waiting for transit. I would set such a status to “ready for transit” or “manufacturing complete” or something similar to ensure the customer understands the true status of the vehicle. Many other auto manufacturers allow the customer to track their custom orders to help build anticipation for receiving the product. The European manufacturers in particular are very good at this. Tesla would be wise to recognize that with increasing competition entering the market, that they need to improve their customer experience.


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[HitchHiker71]

That was interesting HitchHiker71.

Even with all of the troubles I think Tesla is the best ev to but. Tesla makes about $9000 a car while Ford ev's are estimated to have lost about $9000 a car meaning Ford will not be able keep making ev's without big changes, imo.

Bill

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/22/ford-to-break-out-ev-business.html

Deutsche Bank analyst Emmanuel Rosner believes Ford could be incurring gross losses of about $9,000 per EV sold. The analyst expects Ford to reveal Thursday Model e operating losses of $6 billion for 2022. That’s after accounting for significant research and development investments — roughly 65% of the company’s total R&D — into the EV unit.

Charted: Tesla’s Unrivaled Profit Margins

This infographic compares Tesla's impressive profit margins to various Western and Chinese competitors.

www.visualcapitalist.com

Tesla is still undoubtedly the market leader in the EV segment and has a marked advantage with manufacturing efficiencies learned over the past 10+ years and it shows. Ford just released their financials today with EVs broken out:

Ford reveals new operating structure, $3B in losses expected for EV segment

Ford gave investors and analysts today a peek behind how it will reorganize its business units, and report financial performance.

finance.yahoo.com

I haven’t done the math yet for per vehicle losses from Ford according to these numbers and I don’t see that Ford has done this either - but it wouldn’t be hard to calculate.

I’m simply concerned that Tesla has become used to being the only game in town for quite some time - and when you are the only game in town customer service and experience don’t tend to matter as much because you have monopoly power. Once competition enters the market how you manage customer experiences becomes more important though - first impressions are very important and as a Tesla stockholder I see a ton of room for improvement with the pre-sales process, particularly the post order delivery phase.


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[Ken555]

Had I made a custom order I would fully have expected to be in the same boat as everyone else. What surprised me was ordering from existing inventory with a vehicle status of “vehicle in transit” clearly stated on the website, only to later find out that the vehicle is not yet in transit and is sitting in Freemont waiting for transit. I would set such a status to “ready for transit” or “manufacturing complete” or something similar to ensure the customer understands the true status of the vehicle. Many other auto manufacturers allow the customer to track their custom orders to help build anticipation for receiving the product. The European manufacturers in particular are very good at this. Tesla would be wise to recognize that with increasing competition entering the market, that they need to improve their customer experience.


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You have every right to be pissed. Welcome to Elon’s world - best of luck!


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[HitchHiker71]

You have every right to be pissed. Welcome to Elon’s world - best of luck!


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I'm on the largest Tesla forum on the internet - have been since we placed our order on 3/14/2023. Learning a ton. I feel especially bad for those folks who placed orders in January 2023, and have received several EDD updates since that period of time - mostly placing them in the last two weeks of March. Tesla likely had intentions to get these orders completed before end of quarter. What I'm seeing going on that I don't like is that these folks are now receiving updated EDDs for April/May/June - some being pushed out as far as 2+ months from late March. The ongoing theory is that what Tesla does toward end of quarter - is they actually move these customer orders to other buyers close to the factory locations so that they can actually deliver them before end of quarter to boost their delivery numbers. While that certainly helps Tesla - it is the customer who suffers. My MY LR is likely still sitting in Freemont because I live on the east coast - and therefore Tesla is reallocating transportation resources to deliver cars on the west coast that are much closer to Freemont and/or Austin for example. Now I will have to wait until sometime in April due to transportation delays most likely. No one on these forums can prove these theories - but it's a pattern widely observed whenever Tesla starts their "end of quarter delivery rush" with all hands on deck to build and deliver as many vehicles as is possible before 3/31/2023 in this case.

 

[Ken555]

I'm on the largest Tesla forum on the internet - have been since we placed our order on 3/14/2023. Learning a ton. I feel especially bad for those folks who placed orders in January 2023, and have received several EDD updates since that period of time - mostly placing them in the last two weeks of March. Tesla likely had intentions to get these orders completed before end of quarter. What I'm seeing going on that I don't like is that these folks are now receiving updated EDDs for April/May/June - some being pushed out as far as 2+ months from late March. The ongoing theory is that what Tesla does toward end of quarter - is they actually move these customer orders to other buyers close to the factory locations so that they can actually deliver them before end of quarter to boost their delivery numbers. While that certainly helps Tesla - it is the customer who suffers. My MY LR is likely still sitting in Freemont because I live on the east coast - and therefore Tesla is reallocating transportation resources to deliver cars on the west coast that are much closer to Freemont and/or Austin for example. Now I will have to wait until sometime in April due to transportation delays most likely. No one on these forums can prove these theories - but it's a pattern widely observed whenever Tesla starts their "end of quarter delivery rush" with all hands on deck to build and deliver as many vehicles as is possible before 3/31/2023 in this case.

Yup, I think they've done similar actions in the past, from what I have anecdotally heard. A friend has an S and ordered a new one a couple years ago... and it was finally delivered ~8 months late.

I suggest changing the delivery address to California and flying out and picking it up yourself.

 

[TUGBrian]

The local news in Jacksonville Florida occasionally mentions lower gas taxes across the border in Georgia.

Im not sure there are many residents in north Florida who are not aware gas is cheaper in Georgia.

however in most cases its not worth the drive for the savings, even if you live out north of the airport its still a 15 to 20 mile round trip to the fla/ga line.... and gas stations right on the border charge more for that very reason than even a few miles north into georgia like kingsland, or brunswick.

so call it 25 highway miles, plus 30 to 45min of your time, to save 25c a gallon in gas? and thats if you live on the northside. for the vast majority of the metro jax area (say orange park for instance where I live), it would be over a 100 mile round trip to get to georgia and back.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Yup, I think they've done similar actions in the past, from what I have anecdotally heard. A friend has an S and ordered a new one a couple years ago... and it was finally delivered ~8 months late.

I suggest changing the delivery address to California and flying out and picking it up yourself.

Just got an update in text from Tesla as follows:

Sir, the vehicle is now on the train headed to Maryland. After that it will come by truck to Baltimore.

 

[Brett]

Just got an update in text from Tesla as follows:

Sir, the vehicle is now on the train headed to Maryland. After that it will come by truck to Baltimore.

Hoping you eventually get your Tesla
(and tax credit)

 

[HitchHiker71]

Hoping you eventually get your Tesla
(and tax credit)

We are officially scheduled for delivery next Tuesday, March 28 at 4:00 PM. Subject to change of course. We shall see if it sticks.

 

[Passepartout]

We are officially scheduled for delivery next Tuesday, March 28 at 4:00 PM. Subject to change of course. We shall see if it sticks.

Hope the train isn't routed through N.E. Ohio!

 

[MOXJO7282]

I'm now considering a Tesla. I've been driving around my son's 2013 Model S and it is such a nice car even for a car 10 years ago. The previous owner kept it super clean in and out but aside from the look it drives, rather to me it glides so smoothly. That is what it feels like to me, it glides. He has the lifetime free super charging which is a really nice value.

 

[Ken555]

I'm now considering a Tesla. I've been driving around my son's 2013 Model S and it is such a nice car even for a car 10 years ago. The previous owner kept it super clean in and out but aside from the look it drives, rather to me it glides so smoothly. That is what it feels like to me, it glides. He has the lifetime free super charging which is a really nice value.

Free supercharging was not supposed to transfer to a new owner. Sounds like he got an exception.


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[emeryjre]

I had the opportunity to drive a Model S in 2015. Tthe car was incredible. The power, handling, ride comfort was unlike any car I had driven before. This includes top line Mercedes, BMW, Audi's, Mustangs, Camaro's. High End ICE vehicles always traded off ride comfort for handling. To achieve the torque of the Model S, required large engines and weight. Or small engines with turbo lag.

I did not buy one. I bought a second home in another part of the country. But the car is incredible. I would like to try out the Plaid version of the Model S, but not in my budget at this point in my life.

I do not know a single person buying a Model S from 2014 to 2019 concerned about saving money on gasoline. They bought the car because it was beyond any other car on the road.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Free supercharging was not supposed to transfer to a new owner. Sounds like he got an exception.


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That depends on the model Tesla really, many of the older model S and X's have transferable unlimited supercharging.:

https://electrek.co/2021/07/21/how-to-tell-if-your-tesla-qualifies-for-free-supercharging/

The above article is a bit dated - but is generally still accurate AFAIK, excerpt below. A 2013 Model S is likely still available for free supercharging given the model year.

 

[emeryjre]

Ford and GM are fully aware off the need to change manufacturing methods for EV's

Here is the Ford announcement for the new facility to manufacture the Electric F150. As I understand it, the legacy manufactures will not drop the dealer network. The issues of customer service at Tesla is not an experience all future customers are willing to endure when purchasing a big ticket item.

Ford CEO teases 2025 electric pickup as Millennium Falcon of trucks

The company is promising dramatically simplified manufacturing, with the software and hardware complexity to allow constant improvement.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[MOXJO7282]

Free supercharging was not supposed to transfer to a new owner. Sounds like he got an exception.


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apparently in a private sale it does.

 

[Ken555]

apparently in a private sale it does.

No. See the comment above. Unless you leave the title in the original owner's name, it won't transfer to the new owner. I know as I looked into this a while back...

 

[MOXJO7282]

No. See the comment above. Unless you leave the title in the original owner's name, it won't transfer to the new owner. I know as I looked into this a while back...

We transferred titled to my son and as of right now we're not paying for supercharging so there must be some exceptions.

 

[MOXJO7282]

No. See the comment above. Unless you leave the title in the original owner's name, it won't transfer to the new owner. I know as I looked into this a while back...

If fact it says it above "Fully transferable, free supercharging..." the comments you're referring to seems to apply to the model 3

 

[Ken555]

If fact it says it above "Fully transferable, free supercharging..." the comments you're referring to seems to apply to the model 3

It also stopped with the model S at some point.


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[Ken555]

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[Chrispee]

I do not know a single person buying a Model S from 2014 to 2019 concerned about saving money on gasoline. They bought the car because it was beyond any other car on the road.

Well now you know one (sort of, online) because I have a 2019 Model S and gas savings is absolutely a concern of mine. I save $200-$300 per month on gas.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It also stopped with the model S at some point.


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Yes per what I posted this stopped in 2017.


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[emeryjre]

Well now you know one (sort of, online) because I have a 2019 Model S and gas savings is absolutely a concern of mine. I save $200-$300 per month on gas.

It is a fabulous vehicle. Did you buy the vehicle to save money on gas? I may not have said it correctly, but what I meant, nobody I knew bought a Model S primarily to save money on gas.