Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?

[infamazz]

Point Value can easily be inflated away

Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020.

Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).

 

[dioxide45]

Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020.

Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).

Have we even seen a 2013 points chart yet? No guaranty things won't change for 2013.

 

[m61376]

Even for the owners of the most desirable locations, the Destinations program does not make sense. Marriott has only agreed to forgo increasing the amount of points required to reserve a week at a given resort through 2013. This means that while it may cost 4000 points to reserve a week in Aruba this year, it may cost 4500 points in 2014, and 5000 points in 2015, and 8000 points by 2020.

Needless to say, the value of your points can be easily inflated away, requiring you to purchase ever more points to keep up and simply maintain your options. Please do not fall for this trap. It sounds good at the outset, having more options and flexibility, but you pay for that flexibility both immediately (with the fee to join), and in the long-run (with arbitrary Marriott Destination point inflation).

Where was this written? I knew that they left themselves an "out" to readjust point allocations, presumably based on usage patterns, in the future, but not that they only fixed the point cost until 2013. Very interesting....

 

[infamazz]

I called up last year when I was debating whether or not to enter the program. I asked directly "Is Marriott guaranteeing that the point amounts for a given week at a given location will remain the same always, since the calendars for the points required are only through 2012?"

-- BTW, I got the year wrong, as the other commenter pointed out. The points are fixed only through 2012, not 2013 --

The Marriott rep told me that Marriott reserves the right to increase the required points, and that they can only guarantee they will remain the same through 2012. Specifically, in order to assuage my concerns, the rep said I should "trust Marriott to do what is in the best interests of the owners."

Obviously Marriott has not made any definitive public statements that they intend to raise the required points amount at a future time since this would seriously hurt participation in the DC program now. However, it is only common sense - inflating away the value of the DC points opens a new stream of revenue as owners are required to periodically purchase new DC points. Common sense, plus the company leaving the door wide open, equals the inevitable.

 

[mjm1]

It will interesting to see what they do. We own the points program at Welk Resorts and if they increase the points required for certain weeks they must reduce the points required for other weeks, so that the total number of points in the system remain the same. I haven't seen the details of the Marriott program, but one would think a similar requirement would be in place from a legal perspective.

 

[arubalover60]

This might not mean anything, but if you go into the MVCI "introduction to points" calculators you can access points amounts through 2013 and 2014 is crossed out. So that might mean that the 2013 points amounts will be same as 2010 - 2012, but who knows?

 

[Run4Fun]

I found this site when Marriott introduced the new Points Program and I've learned a lot from all the posts here (Thanks to all). I was against joining, but lately I've been reconsidering just to save on the fees. I have a couple of weeks deposited in II and I find myself depositing and trading on a week from a prior year because I have a limited amount of vacation and I never catch up.

I had read a while back that you give up your voting rights when joining DC but I think it was found to no be the case - can anyone clarify that?

If I do decide to join, I can't see myself ever trading for DC Points. I've had good luck trading through II and I hope that will continue even with the new program. I'm sure that a lot of Legacy owners who have joined the DC program will continue to book at their home resort or trade through II and that inventory will still be available for trades.

 

[lrf]

New MVC points system

We recently visited MVC Harbour Lakes. Our sales representative told us about 40% of "old system" owners had converted to the new system and that they expect Marriott will get the rest to switch within 2 years. Any thoughts on this?

 

[dioxide45]

We recently visited MVC Harbour Lakes. Our sales representative told us about 40% of "old system" owners had converted to the new system and that they expect Marriott will get the rest to switch within 2 years. Any thoughts on this?

They will never get everyone to switch unless they drop the enrollment fee a lot or make it free. Same with the annual fee. For many people it just doesn't make sense. Those that use their home resort every year will get no benefit and would pay more in fees. They also can't get those post 6/20 resales in because currently they are "banned". Marriott doesn't seem to be budging on that either.

 

[divenski]

For me, it will be a split decision.

Enroll Waiohai, but not a Mountainside ski week.

I don't really need the full 2-bdrm of WAI, and because there is no L/O, there is no way to get 2 weeks thru II, but with careful planning, there is with ~5K DC Points. Yes, getting an AC is a way to get 2 weeks in II, but they are restricted, cost extra money, etc.

However, MOU is great to use, and if needed, is a strong trader which can be split. Also, it's been easy to rent.

 

[mjm1]

We just returned from a 2 night weekend stay at Timber Lodge courtesy of our 800 club points for enrolling. Had a nice relaxing time with clear skies, 75 degree weather and snow capped mountains. The waterfalls we saw while driving around the lake were really flowing too.

We decided to spend some time listening to a 30 minute overview of the DC program. The salesman said 99% of owners had enrolled, which I knew wasn't correct. In fact, we received our annual owner's letter from Desert Springs and they indicated that 23% of owners at the resort had enrolled. That seems very reasonable. At any rate, I followed up with another salesman after the presentation and asked him about it. He corrected it and said that 98% of owners who meet with a representative enroll in the DC program. Of course, that could be at the Timber Lodge location. I still find that number hard to believe.

They really pushed the idea of buying points so you can "supercharge" your legacy points. We thought about it, but decided not to do it. If we need extra points, I figure we can rent them from another owner.

I liked Greg T's thread regarding the management of the inventory. It makes sense that we should view the DC points owners as that is their home resort. They have priority to book first, but than unused time should be available to legacy owners who are interested in "trading into" these other resorts.

 

[Rubaman]

The new point system takes away more flexibility then it gives you. It limits or discontinues lock off, banking weeks, trading for my own resort, etc. I don't like the idea of being given less points than it takes to stay at your home resort.

I think it is just a further revenue generator in disguise.

Just say no to the point system!

 

[jpc763]

Several of my family members are also multi-week owners with Marriott. We are all "developer week" owners and I did some analysis a year ago.

I was working on Spring Break 2011 planning and here is my summary...

For our Spring Break 2011 we deposited our 3 BR unit in Orlando and request a few destinations (Aruba, St. Thomas, St. Kitts, Oahu or Kauai). Eventually we matched up with Ko Olina for a 2 BR. So we got a week for a week, exchanged Orlando for Hawaii. A pretty good deal for us.

With this new program, each of our properties carry the following value in Vacation Club Points (you can get yours on the MVCI website) –
Shadow Ridge – 2325 points
Ko Olina – 4025 points
Imperial Palms – 2425 points.

In the new system, we would exchange our Orlando week for Vacation Club Points (2425 for Orlando week). We would then request a 7 day stay at any of the above resorts. The “price” is as follows:
Aruba – 4575 points
St. Thomas – 4125 points
St. Kitts – 3725 points
Oahu – 4500 points
Kauai – 4725 points

So we would not be able to stay at any of these at all for our points. We would have to save the points for 2 years to get 1 week.

Just for laughs, what would I be able to get for our Spring Break week.

Palm Desert?
Shadow Ridge – 4000 points – Nope…
Desert Springs I – 4225 points – still no.
Desert Springs II – 3775 points – again no.

Arizona?
Canyon Villas – 4125 points – Nada.

Can we go anywhere???

How about back to Orlando?
Cypress Harbor – 2900 points – Still no.
Grande Vista – 4225 points
Imperial Palms (The week we cashed in) – 2675 points
Royal & Sable Palms – 2450 points – close, but no.

So we cannot even get the week back that we cashed in AND we cannot trade for a smaller place!

But, we can go to Vail!!!
Streamside (Birch units, the least expensive) – 1450 points!

Or Fairway Villas (in New Jersey) – 1775 points!

Or Hilton Head (Harbour Club – 1725, Heritage Club – 1900 points)

So I am not impressed with this “benefit” and see it as a way that Marriott will decrease the Interval International inventory of Marriott properties that I have been trading for.

Since then, my brother enrolled his 2 weeks (Desert Springs I, Waiohai EOY, Newport Coast EOY) and tried to convince me that it was a good deal.

It still looks like a lousy deal. Am I totally missing something?

For reference, we always occupy our Ko Olina EOY and our Shadow Ridge EOY and usually trade our Imperial Palms EOY.

John

 

[DanCali]

It still looks like a lousy deal. Am I totally missing something?

IMO, no...

 

[smadak]

We own 2 weeks. We are still up in hte air about joining the points system, but it looks like it wouldn't be good for us. We usually go to our home resort in Orlando, then use our other resort to trade. so far trading through II has worked for us. We just got back from Hilton Head on a trade through II (we traded up in Marriott to Marriott resorts as well).
If we join points It would take both of our weeks points to trade for one week at a nice Marriott resort. For the past 8 years we have had 2 weeks of vacations, but if we go to points we would not have enough to get this done.
Plus, why do I have to pay Marriott to join the system, when I have already bought 2 weeks and pay maintenance fees every year.
If the cut the enrollment fee in half or more, then it would be more intriguing. I don't believe when they tell me that 90% of Marriott owners voter for this.

 

[CMF]

Decided - Joined: converted two weeks and purchased 2K points.

I have not given this detailed thought. We have an encore presentation scheduled for August and they will apply the $2000 we paid for the encore program to our points purchase should we buy at that time. If we buy, I will enroll what weeks I can at no charge and buy maybe the minimum amount of points. I will put it all under the magnifying glass as time nears.

My poll answer is UNDECIDED.

Charles

How can I change my poll answer now that I decided to buy?

Charles

 

[dioxide45]

How can I change my poll answer now that I decided to buy?

Charles

See post 136, you can't and DaveM is MIA.

 

[chipse]

MVCI points

No will not convert to points. I see it as a dilution of value

 

[dmharris]

So after ignoring this for awhile, I do have to make a decision. We chatted online with a Marriott customer service agent to understand our options and we believe even though we only own one week, because we exchange it always, we'll save money after 3 years. So we're joining but NOT converting to points. EVER!

Also after watching II inventory I believe Marriott is holding back. What do the rest of you think?

 

[dmharris]

Also, as a market researcher, I would love to know the percent of owners who joined the club AND what percent of those have chosen to stay with weeks vs. points. It is misleading to only have former without the latter. Just my professional 2 cents.

 

[msvalenti]

Not Joining...downgrade for some owners

I purchased resale and would not be able to even come close to making the trades that I did in the past with my week. Marriott has alot of resorts but they have nothing in hot areas like Mexico, Puerto Rico, and a good portion of the Carribean. Seems like they are not expanding as rapidly as in the past. If they are building new resorts they are building them in the same areas like Florida. If you want to trade for Marriott rewards you are not getting the same value for your villas Category for Category. For instance, I own Cypress Harbor and it is listed as a category 6 in the reward points system which equates to 30,000 points per night. If I trade my villa for points it's only worth 110,000 points which only redeems for 3 nights in a category 6 hotel /resort. If you trade your points for miles or cruises you usually won't even get your maintenance fees worth of flights or cruises. Not valuable options IMO. They say that the reward points for developer weeks and resale weeks are the same, I'm wondering if this is true and can anyone confirm this.

Thanks,
Maria

 

[blobuono]

We too have yet to see how this benefit anyone but MVC.

 

[mikebeeson]

So after ignoring this for awhile, I do have to make a decision. We chatted online with a Marriott customer service agent to understand our options and we believe even though we only own one week, because we exchange it always, we'll save money after 3 years. So we're joining but NOT converting to points. EVER!

Also after watching II inventory I believe Marriott is holding back. What do the rest of you think?

I ABSOLUTELY think they are holding back. We submitted our 2 bedroom Timberlodge week for Ko Olina in November ( we went last year at the same time and the place was empty) and we cant even get a 1 bedroom. This is very fishy. I think they are giving the point owners a priority. Even holding inventory open until the last minute to see if people will use points to reserve before handing the room to Interval for us week-traders. I think we ALL need to make noise. I'm going to review our contracts to see if they are violating our ownership agreement.

 

[EKniager]

I ABSOLUTELY think they are holding back. We submitted our 2 bedroom Timberlodge week for Ko Olina in November ( we went last year at the same time and the place was empty) and we cant even get a 1 bedroom. This is very fishy. I think they are giving the point owners a priority. Even holding inventory open until the last minute to see if people will use points to reserve before handing the room to Interval for us week-traders. I think we ALL need to make noise. I'm going to review our contracts to see if they are violating our ownership agreement.

We visited Grand Dunes last month and finally went through the points sales pitch. The system was different from what we expected but the economics still did not make sense to us. Why get less points for our Aruba Surf Club than what a platinum week costs? Made no sense if we were going to use Aruba.

Our sales women got visibly upset with me when she figured out I knew the system too well and asked pointed questions like, "Why would I pay $25K to buy a points week when I can buy another Aruba platinum week on the secondary market for <$20K?" She blamed our thought process on our being engineers. Worse, she told me I couldn't look at this as a financial decision and my hesitation was caused by "analysis -paralysis." I almost came out of my chair! Also, she claimed it was going to be more difficult to exchange thru II in the future as Marriott would be holding the destinations (that were part of this new landtrust) for points owners. I guess that's what I get for bragging that two years in a row we have been able to trade our lockoff for a two-bedroom at some other Marriott location (HH and Williamsburg). I have to admit though, if trading our of Aruba becomes a real pain-in-the-butt, we will just have to turn it into a rental property.

I should have come on here sooner while everything from our discussion was still fresh in my mind so that I could have done some fact checking.

 

[dmharris]

Thanks this confirms my fear. This is not what we agreed to when we purchased in 2006; the rules of the game have changed and we 'owners' have absolutely no say. This stinks.