Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?

[Gaff]

Thanks billymach4 ~ I'm not sure that I'm on the money, but I know that I am trying to keep it n my wallet!!!!!!

 

[dioxide45]

Just returned from a Marriott stay in California and attended my 4th 'Destinations' presentation. The Rep was very professional and knew that I was a non starter because of my experience and proceeded to give me the cliff note version of the sales pitch. He was very willing to answer all my questions. I was struck by several points that were brought up.

1 ~ I had to pay an initiation fee for the privilage

Correct, that initiation fee will increase to $2395 in June.

2 ~ I would lose the lock off feature of my resorts (full unit is enrolled)

Untrue. You only lose this if you convert your week to points. You only have the option to convert to points or keep your week as is, no changes. If you keep your week, you can lock off, you also save the $80 lock off fee to boot.

3 ~ The pts received for my units would be less than pts required to stay at my home resorts

True, but if you are staying at your home resort, you would make a weeks based reservation there. Of course you get skimmed when you stay at other resorts on points. This skim replaces fees that many other systems charge (housekeeping, short stay fees, etc).

4 ~ You can join the program without having a unit to enroll in the system

This is new to me. If someone without a unit joins, what do they convert to get points from? No units = no points. Trust owners own points and join the DC program.

I questioned about the fact that people joining without units would create a shortage of available units. He stated that members would be spread out over:

short term stays (2-3 dys), sea cruises, plane fares, hotel stays etc..

These types of exchanges are offered with II and other programs also, they have almost always been a bad deal. They are a bit better in DC.

I couldn't understand how anyone (who didn't have to) would go to the trouble and expense of plane travel for a 3dy stay (check in 4pm ~ check out 10am = 1dy stay) . I also didn't understand why you would use a timeshare for plane fare when you can get it for free with rewards charge cards. Finally, I was laughing when I told him that for 20yrs they were trying to sell me timeshares by showing me how dismal and uncomfortable hotel rooms were in comparison to timeshares ~ now they wanted me to give up my timeshare to go back to hotel rooms.......

Travel patterns change, not everyone flies to destinations. For some, DC short stays work great, for others they don't. That is the great thing about DC, you can join or stay out.

In the end he confirmed that I used my timeshares in exactly the way they were designed and that the 'Destinations' program would not enhance my vacation experiences in any way.

If it doesn't work for you, it is great that you don't have to join and still have the option to work in weeks. If you lock off and exchange through II a lot, the a la carte fees could save you some money.

 

[Gaff]

Hi dioxide45,

Pt 2 - You cannot decide to convert your 1 bedroom or studio separately which negates the benefit of cutting your maintenance fees in half.

Pt 3 - Again, the lock off feature would get me 2 weeks at the home resort or other resort with minimal charges

Pt 4,5 - Apparently, [unless he was lying (Senior Sales Director)], you can pay to join the program and then buy points to do whatever you want (hotels, cruises, timeshares, airfares etc.). The fact that Marriott appears not to be interested if ROFR tells me that there is going to be a serious issue with inventory unless they get a large % of current owners to enroll and that a good % of 'Destination' members opt for cruises, hotels, etc.

For people who have already taken the plunge, I hope it works out. For those who haven't I suggest that you do your homework, go to several presentations and ask lots of questions (don't let them carry the 'show').It is a 'sales pitch' after all...

 

[dioxide45]

Hi dioxide45,

Pt 2 - You cannot decide to convert your 1 bedroom or studio separately which negates the benefit of cutting your maintenance fees in half.

True, but you don't have to convert to points at all and you still have full use of both sides of your lock off.

Pt 3 - Again, the lock off feature would get me 2 weeks at the home resort or other resort with minimal charges

I don't dispute that, if you enroll though you only pay the one combined fee instead of the lock off fee of $80, if you exchange both through II, you also get the two exchanges of $119 each included.

Pt 4,5 - Apparently, [unless he was lying (Senior Sales Director)], you can pay to join the program and then buy points to do whatever you want (hotels, cruises, timeshares, airfares etc.). The fact that Marriott appears not to be interested if ROFR tells me that there is going to be a serious issue with inventory unless they get a large % of current owners to enroll and that a good % of 'Destination' members opt for cruises, hotels, etc.

I would think the "if his lips were moving" saying makes good sense here. There is no means to even buy points on a one time use basis from Marriott. Current owners can't do it. There is no means to enroll unless you are an owner. They want to sell points. The sales rep was wrong.

For people who have already taken the plunge, I hope it works out. For those who haven't I suggest that you do your homework, go to several presentations and ask lots of questions (don't let them carry the 'show').It is a 'sales pitch' after all...

I agree, it is important to understand the new system and do you homework. Many of us here that have enrolled did lots of homework and didn't jump in as soon as it was rolled out. We determined that it works well for us. Not everyone is in it to convert to points, many have opted to enroll just to save on the a-la-carte fees. Any financial decision like this should be be fully researched.

I was originally against the new program. We waited over a year after roll out to enroll. A lot of though and calculations went in to our decision. For us, it is about the combined fee.

 

[Gaff]

Dioxide 45, I really don't think that the ability to join 'Destinations' and then buy points can be shrugged off so easily! As an owner I would be paying an initiation fee, enrolling my weeks, and then paying (assuming a deficit) for points to go where I wanted. If (as I believe) Marriott was moving in the direction of a 'Vacation Opportunity Outlet' why wouldn't they allow non-timeshare owners to join 'Destinations'. They are offering a lot more than mere timeshare accomodations. I am not prepared to call the 'Sales Rep' a liar yet!! I will have to see more conclusive evidence to the contrary first....

 

[dioxide45]

I will have to see more conclusive evidence to the contrary first....

I guess I am more of the one to not believe something from a sales rep and look for substantiation that it is true, not the other way around. There has been no advertising by Marriott to enroll in DC without being an owner, none. There is no "getaway" program in DC. You can rent inventory at discounted rates based on membership level, but you have to be an owner to use those discounts. Those discounts are really just booked through Marriott.com using the applicable code.

We have also never seen anyone in these forums that has said they enrolled in DC without having any type of ownership.

 

[Gaff]

Just found this 'Blog' with a 'marriott destination program membership' search.

Timeshare Talk
Enrolled Club Points vs. Trust Points
Pam Keystone - Tuesday, March 01, 2011

We recently learned that there are 2 pools of inventory that the new Destination Club points can access. The majority of Marriott owners own deeded weeks which can be "elected" for Club Points in any given year. These points can be used to reserve Marriott Vacation Club stays for any number of days that you choose. These "enrolled" Club points can only access the available inventory of resorts and dates that are made available from owners turning their deeded weeks into Club Points. This is known as the Exchange Inventory.

When you purchase Club points these are considered "Trust" Club points and with these points you can only access the Trust Inventory. This is the inventory comprised of unsold weeks, resale weeks and re-acquired weeks. In other words, this is the inventory that Marriott owns, not the owners.

When searching for available resorts for specific dates, you can only search the inventory in which your points can access. The two types of points can not be combined. Marriott Sales Executives have been selling existing owners a minimum of 1,500 points and some owners have opted to do this with the idea that these 1,500 "trust" points can be combined with their deeded week Club points. Not so.

The following example illustrates how exchanging with points works: You have 2,500 points in the bank that you have elected from your deeded weeks. And you have 1,500 Trust points you have purchased. You want to go to Aruba in February and it requires 3,900 points. If the inventory is only in the Trust you don't have enough points to book it. If the inventory is only in the Exchange Inventory, you don't have sufficient points to book it. ONLY if the inventory is in both pools, can you book it. MVCI will use 2,400 points for the first 4 nights from your "enrolled" points and then 1,500 points from your "Trust" points for the last 3 nights.

I don't believe this is how it has been explained by Marriott Sales Executives.

Makes you kind of 'Wonder' doesn't it!!!!!!

.

 

[Gaff]

I think that is what caused my confusion ~ It must be the 'Trust' points that people can purchase.. It makes sense because Marriott is offering; flights, cruises, hotel stays, land based tours etc..

 

[Snooker]

Destination Point Experience - Ritz Carlton Abaco Club Bahamas

This was our second use of Destination Club points, but it was the first resort usage and first Ritz experience. We bought 5 days at the Abaco Club which recently opened up to Premier Members. As a Ritz we could only book 6 months in advance, but we were able to reserve our 5 days with ease. It was fantastic experience.

We booked a car (opting NOT for the $80 cab ride from Marsh Harbor a/p to the Club - each way.) We were greeted plane side by name by the fellow who had our car (Ritz had contacted them to meet us.) On arrival Abaco Club you park the car and are issued a golf cart for your stay - no cars on the property. Bags were transferred from our car to our beautiful cabana. 4 post king size bed, flat screen TV with Bose sound system, and a screened in porch. While we had a small fridge and microwave you might plan on eating most meals at the Clubhouse or beach restaurant. Meals are exceptional quality but pricey. Full breakfast for two about $40. Dinner is much higher. Considering meal and drinks costs plan on at least $200/day per couple to eat and drink.

Beach was beautiful complete with padded loungers, umbrellas and towel service. No issue getting a place in the sun here. Free Hobie Cats, kayaks, paddle boats to use. Trampoline anchored about 200 ft offshore - its 2-3 feet deep going out almost 50 yds. Infinity pool is available next to the clubhouse. Over 2 miles of beach with perhaps 40 people (at most.)

You may find other sites talking about biting bugs at this Club. This was not an issue in mid February, but I am told it can get bad in the summer. We never used our bug spray. Temp were 75-80 daily - perfect!

They have kid activities at the beach for a few hours a day, but I would not recommend this place for families with small children. This is also not a place to go for night life - there is none. There is no place within 20 miles to go to. I would also not recommend driving at night only because there are no lighted roads for 20 miles or so - and in Bahamas you are driving on the left in an American car. Roads are unmarked for the most part. <-- KEEP LEFT!! (so it said in big letters on our rear view mirror.)

Golf course on site at $175 per round. Scottish course design with real deep bunkers. We didn't golf this trip. They offer free tennis courts and a beautiful Croquet field (putting green grass.)

I can't say enough about the staff and how wonderful they are. They go to great lengths to help you enjoy your stay. They know you by name after you meet them. Uncle Jean on the beach is the best, and Archie at the Clubhouse bar will make your night fun (if you dare.)

Doubtful we will go back only because there are more great places to explore.

 

[billwright1]

Multi week owner not joining

 

[BoTighe]

Single week owner. Will not be joining.

 

[ilene13]

Multi week owner who does not want to join but feels we may be forced to.

 

[Snooker]

Destination Points - Defintely Not for All

While we have chosen to join the Marriott Destination Point program, I completely appreciate the program is not for all. I have met many owners at Aruba Ocean Club (as well as other locations we traded for) who are quite happy to use their week(s) at their home resort and do nothing else. They have done that for years and will continue to so for the foreseeable future. Our family likes to explore other locations of the world and the Destination Point system opened up some interesting opportunities using our investment in the program.

There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook. We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.) That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before. Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.

Look forward to seeing you on the beach somewhere!

 

[bazzap]

While we have chosen to join the Marriott Destination Point program, I completely appreciate the program is not for all. I have met many owners at Aruba Ocean Club (as well as other locations we traded for) who are quite happy to use their week(s) at their home resort and do nothing else. They have done that for years and will continue to so for the foreseeable future. Our family likes to explore other locations of the world and the Destination Point system opened up some interesting opportunities using our investment in the program.

There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook. We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.) That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before. Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.

Look forward to seeing you on the beach somewhere!

Well, currently you can only go to any Marriott timeshare location in the US DC Points Program, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.)
So you can only explore other locations of the world, e.g. Europe, Asia through II week exchanges.
In the same way, we as owners of non US resorts cannot currently benefit from what you describe.
If ever there is a Global Points program, then we will all be able to enjoy the flexibility you have in the US everywhere in the world.

 

[Docklander]

I've just done been to a Marriott update because I haven't been to one in about 3 years and I wanted to hear everything about the points program from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

I was struggling with my decision and, as a multi-week owner the points idea was tempting at first but, the more I think about it, the more I think that the points aren't worth it. Yes, there are savings on fees but the $2,000 fee to enroll offsets a lot of those savings unless you lock off a lot.

Also I'm not too impressed with how they've introduced a pseudo new set of "seasons" for those using points. By that I mean that, for example, although the Grand Chateau only has one prime "week" under the old system, they've introduced a whole series of dates that are now "prime" dates where daily points rates are higher than the rates they assign to the week you own. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.

I like the idea of being able to visit resorts for less than a week, especially for places like Vegas and Boston, and to check in on most days of the week...but I'm not convinced these added bonuses make up for the deficiencies above.

So, after consideration and unless someone here points out something I'm missing (quite likely), I don't think I'll be going down the points route.

 

[m61376]

Also I'm not too impressed with how they've introduced a pseudo new set of "seasons" for those using points. By that I mean that, for example, although the Grand Chateau only has one prime "week" under the old system, they've introduced a whole series of dates that are now "prime" dates where daily points rates are higher than the rates they assign to the week you own. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.

For many properties the points awarded would not let an owner book any week in their owned season; of course, the counter-argument is that they should book a week when using their home resort, but the corollary to that is that they are downgrading anyplace they choose to trade to, because they are awarded less points than their ownership would otherwise dictate. However, some people think this big bite (dubbed the "skim") offsets the flexibility, and many have even decided it was worth giving Marriott another ten grand or so to buy 1000 additional points to increase their flexibility. It is a personal decision.

While I agree with you, there is one feature which I do find somewhat compelling. GregT has illustrated and set up a point rental website, and the ability to rent points from other owners may be a very worthwhile adjunct to the program, both for when you may need an extra unit for additional guests and/or for the occasional special trip, that perhaps you want to guarantee a certain date that might be hard to obtain via II, or really want to ensure that oceanview for an anniversary trip to Hawaii, for example. I could see that an occasional point rental might be something I would do down the road, whether as an adjunct to using my regular week or to supplement the point value of a week, either to compensate for the limited point allocation, to guarantee a view, or to secure a3BR unit perhaps. If you are not a DC member you cannot use points directly, although you could still have someone make the reservation for you and rent the unit.

The other consideration, which I'll admit is more of a "what if" scenario than based on anything concrete, is what if in the future Marriott decides to do all Marriott trades internally, including Marriott to Marriott week trades? Will that ever happen?- clearly this is a figment of my imagination. I do wonder if it pays for resale owners to enroll to "protect their investment," so to speak. For now, Marriott is willing to recognize older resale owners as basically "full" owners, with 2K being the price of admission. I'm thinking it may be worth the extra $650 a week (over and above what I would have paid if I bought directly from Marriott) to join and know that, whatever changes come down the road, I'll be protected, because while Marriott may not really care about resale owners, they would never alienate their direct customer base. So it may sound silly, but I kinda look at the extra $1300 for resale owners to join as an insurance surcharge, and feel that cost will be offset somewhere down the road by a single point rental versus having to reserve an extra unit for my family on Marriott.com (since my family dynamics has changed so that needing an additional unit is likely).

 

[jimf41]

. If I exchange my MGC for points I expect to be able to book a week at the MGC, using those points, for any week of the year except New Years...but I can't, I'm now date restricted.

The system was not designed for a weeks owner to use DC points to go to his own resort. If you think about it for a moment you realize that if you do that all you're doing is adding a needless complication to the reservation process. Even if there were no vig, being from NY I prefer vig over skim, you would be going from a guaranteed reservation to a chance to get a reservation in the exchange pool.

With the DC points system certain opportunities occur that were not there prior to its implementation as well as certain inequities that have been addressed. Some resorts were given a high amount of points and some were not so fortunate. In my case the St Thomas weeks I own were given a pitifully small amount of points. This is also the case with St Kitts and Aruba. The Hawaii owners were given a large amount of points for their weeks.

Since "points are points" once they are in the exchange pool the Hawaii owners now have a better shot at getting value when they trade in the exchange pool rather than go through II where "a week is a week".

Looking at what MGC gets for points it doesn't appear to me that joining the DC system would be a great value unless you lock off and trade a lot. Or you want the ability to trade for MRPs once in a while. Even if you do it would take at least 5 or six years or more to break even.

Each owner has to look at this system and see what advantages it has over what they currently can do with no additional cost. There are so many possible avenues and permutations to doing this I couldn't possibly list them. Just don't look at one thing, not being able to trade back in using points, and say the system won't work for you.

 

[Docklander]

Just don't look at one thing, not being able to trade back in using points, and say the system won't work for you.

I'm not looking at just one thing...that was an example of something that, I feel, comes down on the negative side of the equation and I was highlighting it. I would have liked to be able to visit the MGC a few days at a time without penalty - that would help me get a lot more valuable usage out of my ownership. Unfortunately the system doesn't really allow for that.

I have looked at the system as a whole and I don't think it works for me...that's what this thread is about right? I only, usually, exchange one of my units so the cost savings aren't really there and most of the places I go to or want to go are far enough away to make staying for less than a week uneconomical (financially and time-wise). So, it seems to me, that if you're generally happy visiting the resorts you own and do few exchanges the system isn't really for you.

I think the point made about the enrollment fee possibly being an insurance policy going forward is a very valid one and it's probably the only thing that's keeping me from saying outright that I won't be joining. This is something I'll have to consider for longer. If I do enroll it will be for this reason and this reason alone.

 

[Beverley]

There is one feature to the new program that some might overlook. We can go to any Marriott timeshare location, for any length of time, arrive on any day of the week, and use any type of room in any season (subject to availability, obviously.) That feature adds so much flexibility to vacationing that we never had before. Now that they finally have the web site set up, we can book these types of vacations on line.

This has been really useful to us. I agree it may not be for all, but we have liked it so far and were very very skeptical in the beginning. We did, however, enroll at the first opportunity to do so although at the time I never expected to use DC. We own 6 weeks with Marriott prior to the roll out and have been saving tons of $$ on the fees to do what we have been doing for years. A few years later, now, we have reserved more than a few weekend stays at Custom House, tagged on extra days for our return home from HHI, make great use of Sun to Friday check in. out, have St Kitts / St Thomas trip for early summer this year, and are now planning an Alaska adventure/ cruise and land combination of using DC and MR points.

Definitely not for everyone, but gradually becoming good for us and a "nice to have" option. Nothing we had went away other than the fees for enrolling at the $695 rate. If we had waited until they raise the fee to $2395 (or so) we would never join. Think about your use and if you think you may save on the fees or might take advantage of some of the options, then enroll before the rates go up.

Beverley

 

[Beverley]

Dioxide45,
You've done a really nice jog of explaining of the DC options.

Beverley

 

[blobuono]

We have yet to see the value and the buy-in fee seems out of line. If the program were priced far more realistically we may consider.

 

[ndonovan]

To join or not to join, that is the question

As the deadline approaches before the big price increase I find myself leaning more and more towards joining the points.

I own two weeks, a silver week at Ford's Colony and a platinum three bedroom at Grande Vista. Each year I deposit the silver week with Interval and exchange it for a week in the fall, which I believe is Ford's Colony Platinum season. I have done this successfully for 13 years. This is my annual golf trip.

As the grandchildren get older I find myself using the Orlando week more often than trading it but I do cash it in for points every few years when my point total drops below 500,000.

By enrolling I pay $165 a year which is more than offset by my II dues and the $119 I am spending every year to exchange my Manor Club into the fall. So the question remains is it worth $695. I am leaning toward a yes. Last year I cashed in for points, that cost $119. Most years, unless the whole family is going with me, I lock out my unit ($80) and then, if I am not going to Orlando I exchange the two units separately, more exchange fees. It doesn't seem like it would take too long to recoup the $695.

Am I missing something?

 

[DanCali]

Nothing we had went away other than the fees for enrolling at the $695 rate.

In my opinion, enrollment rates will only go down. It makes zero economic sense to increase enrollment by raising enrollment rates. If I didn't enroll for $2K (or $700) I certainly won't find it more attractive to do it for more.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see enrollment rates go down towards zero over time.

As for the annual club dues - that's where the increasing fees argument applies. Recurring fees are the real value here. Once you paid to enroll, you're captive. And if annual fees go up 10% every year, most will stick with the program.

It's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

 

[ndonovan]

To join or not to join, that is the question

You're right Dan, raising the enrollment from $595 to $2395 does not seem to be the way to get the existing members to jump in in, other than trying to trigger a last minute rush of existing members in June (Like me). I haven't been visitng the forums as much as I did in the past when I was a moderator, I am sure this has been the topic of much discussion.

I fully anticipate the $165 to increase but as long as it stays under the cost of a Marriott to Marriott exchange plus a year of Interval then I guess I am OK.

When I bought my first unit the Marriott to Marriott fee was $69, the non-Marriott fee was $109 and the international was $129. Maintenance fees were $800 and it cost $104 to cash in for points. Point is, fees are going to rise.

Even if the enrollment fee drops to $0 as you are surmising, I guess the key is whether I will save $695 in fees between now and then.

 

[JimC]

...I fully anticipate the $165 to increase but as long as it stays under the cost of a Marriott to Marriott exchange plus a year of Interval then I guess I am OK.....

There is nothing that prevents Marriott from raising it to whatever they want since once in, your are a captive with no ability to avoid the fee.