Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?

[dioxide45]

Consider that the $59,074 is also potentially a lost principle cost. Most investments earning 5%, the money you put in is secure and you can turn around and pull it back out. If that purchase price is lost, that is an additional cost of ~$425.00 per night spread over twenty years.

 

[OldPantry]

Consider that the $59,074 is also potentially a lost principle cost. Most investments earning 5%, the money you put in is secure and you can turn around and pull it back out. If that purchase price is lost, that is an additional cost of ~$425.00 per night spread over twenty years.

Yes, that too. Not that I hadn't thought of it; it's just a little more difficult to quantify. Do you eventually lose all, or just some of that 59K? What is almost certain is that you'll eventually take a sizable haircut, thus radically increasing your nightly cost over time.
Here's a thought: what if the word really got out, and points sales collapsed (as did timeshare sales a couple of years ago)? That would be bad for Spinco, of course, but I'm not positive it would be bad for legacy owners. For one thing, if folks stopped buying points, and instead went to Redweek and Tug for their rentals, that would have a lovely effect on the income owners could then get for their weeks. That, more than any other factor, would halt the precipitous drop in resale prices (at least for desirable weeks). As to Spinco, it would have to rethink its business model. Points might still make sense, but they'd have to be priced far more favorably than at present. I suspect there is a niche for Spinco between owner rentals and Marriott retail pricing. But with the real cost of points substantially MORE than Marriott retail, I think they're in big trouble.

 

[TJCNewYork]

new points look like a truly terrible deal

That's the #1 reason we declined last September. Last month, a MOS rep sounded genuine and reassuring, "Legacy owners continue to have the best deal".

what if points sales collapsed? That would halt the precipitous drop in resale prices. Points might still make sense, but they'd have to be priced far more favorably than at present.

Considering all the major players are points-based now, there is a level playing field. You just may be the oracle. A points sales collapse would accelerate a positive impact on legacy resales.

with the real cost of points substantially MORE than Marriott retail, I think they're in big trouble. As to Spinco, it would have to rethink its business model.

History does have a tendency to repeat itself. In the event of points sales collapse, a more nimble spinco could react faster. And, just maybe get back its legs developing and selling weeks-based ownership resorts.

 

[DavidPJ]

We own a development week on HH and attended a preview over the weekend on Myrtle Beach. Prior to the preview, we knew about the points option but never paid much a attention to it.

We had the preview and the new program was loosely described. I'm not seeing the value in it for us as we very infrequently trade through II. Only once did we convert it to Rewards points. The only advantage for us as we can see is the supposed ability to just use points for just a 3 or 4 day stay rather than using our whole week at one time. But I wonder if this really would be possible on HH given the high demand.

I think if Marriott would not charge an annual fee for existing owners that converted to points I would give it more thought. I really don't understand the program very well and I've learned more about it here in 15 minutes than I did in our preview.

I'm more concerned with the future of the new timeshare company and our investment than I am about converting to points.

 

[TJCNewYork]

The only advantage for us as we can see is the supposed ability to just use points for just a 3 or 4 day stay rather than using our whole week at one time. But I wonder if this really would be possible on HH given the high demand.

DavidPJ - The short stay capability is available with Interval through ShortStay Exchange. As illustrated below, with ShortStay Exchange owners can exchange one week (7 nights) for two vacations ranging from 2 to 6 nights each.

 

[fluffy5]

Not sure what to do.

 

[av8tor]

not yet

I have 2 resale Gold season weeks at MFC. Only one of the weeks qualifies for the new points system, and I only get 2775 points. I am not sure if these points are a representative of true value of the week at MFC.

I have traded for resorts in Tahoe or Breckenridge during the last two weeks of the year, but if I wanted to use the points for the same week and at the same resort, then I would have to buy additional 2000 points. (Or I can rent the week out for the going rate on Redweek, and cover the MF for both of my weeks.)

In addition, I would have to pay almost $1500 to join just one of the two weeks...so where's my upside for joining?

 

[dartmax]

No to point system

At this time I will not join the point system as the system seems to preparing for a transition to a non-marriott owner of timeshares. I own in St Thomas and Aruba and always exchange through ownertrades.com I have discontinued my II membership because I find their exchanges offered to be substandard. We just got back from Aruba and continue to enjoy Aruba. I think with air fare going up and up shorter term stays at multiple resorts are less attractive. We have never stayed less than a week at a Marriott. The point system is more expensive to current owners.

 

[pwrshift]

At this time I will not join the point system as the system seems to preparing for a transition to a non-marriott owner of timeshares. .

Good observation IMO.

 

[Mamianka]

So far, it looks like about 60% are not joining. Would love to see how this poll would fare using all Marriott owners...

An email response (to my foaming at the mouth about a horrible presentation) from my sales rep at MGC (who sold us the BPT EOY this past May) says that about 30 percent of all legacy owners have enrolled, as of this week. If we then figure that, according to the thread, about 60 percent are NOT joining- then 40 percent of 30 percent is 12 percent. Now - of that 12 percent - how many did it to avoid fees, and how many to trade for DC points? - and - the hot item than makes all the sale reps chase us and drool - how many of that 12 percent are BUYING MORE POINTS?? He also said that they have sold about 30 million trust points (must include the new purchasers), and 7 million DC points, from whatever sources, have been used for cruises, safaris, etc.; this takes inventory out of II and puts it into Marriott coffers.

When one of us here was in a bad mood, we would quote the Men in Black movie - "You need PIE!" Now, this has morphed into "You need POINTS!" - since the M sales reps think that it is the cure for everything. This morning: "Poor Duke - last night, they needed POINTS!"

We will continue to check the Weather Channel, and when it has been determined that Hell has in fact frozen over, we might consider buying points. Meanwhile, we have figured things out the way they suit US - and still plan on having some nice vacations. I have run spreadsheets, amortizing our costs, and including fees and their anticipated increases - this still is OK for us - just as it is, thank you. We told them that we do not intend to ever attend another presentation - makes us uncomfortable, and is a mutual waste of time.

 

[OldPantry]

An email response (to my foaming at the mouth about a horrible presentation) from my sales rep at MGC (who sold us the BPT EOY this past May) says that about 30 percent of all legacy owners have enrolled, as of this week. If we then figure that, according to the thread, about 60 percent are NOT joining- then 40 percent of 30 percent is 12 percent. Now - of that 12 percent - how many did it to avoid fees, and how many to trade for DC points? - and - the hot item than makes all the sale reps chase us and drool - how many of that 12 percent are BUYING MORE POINTS?? He also said that they have sold about 30 million trust points (must include the new purchasers), and 7 million DC points, from whatever sources, have been used for cruises, safaris, etc.; this takes inventory out of II and puts it into Marriott coffers.

When one of us here was in a bad mood, we would quote the Men in Black movie - "You need PIE!" Now, this has morphed into "You need POINTS!" - since the M sales reps think that it is the cure for everything. This morning: "Poor Duke - last night, they needed POINTS!"

We will continue to check the Weather Channel, and when it has been determined that Hell has in fact frozen over, we might consider buying points. Meanwhile, we have figured things out the way they suit US - and still plan on having some nice vacations. I have run spreadsheets, amortizing our costs, and including fees and their anticipated increases - this still is OK for us - just as it is, thank you. We told them that we do not intend to ever attend another presentation - makes us uncomfortable, and is a mutual waste of time.

Clever! My willingness to attend presentations has always been governed by the freebies. When it's a four-hour catamaran cruise, then I'm in. If it's a lousy 10,000 Marriott points, count me out. Increasingly, though, my wife has balked at any and all presentations. I guess HER time is worth more than $300/hour. Regardless, we're no more likely to buy points than you are, because we too have mastered fifth grade arithmetic (and I might be insulting my fifth grader here).

 

[OldPantry]

Duplicate message.

 

[stevenz96]

We are multiple platinum week owners at Shadow Ridge, and just returned from our annual week there. We joined and also bought the additional points to achieve Preferred status. We spent a great deal of time with the representative who was also a multiple week owner, and to us, the benefits outweighed the negatives. The key point is that for legacy owners, nothing really changes. You still can occupy, trade for Marriott Reward points, or exchange for other units. The advantage is that if you trade for Marriott units, there are no more II fees. Also, there are no lockoff fees nor rewards exchange fees. I was told that by purchasing points, it gives you ownership rights in ALL the Marriott Vacation Club locations (at least the domestic ones for now) which raises your exchange priority. Finally, by being a Preferred member, you can use request use of points 13 months in advance, as well as request your floating week 13 months in advance without the need for consecutive or concurrent week reservations.

Since we live within easy driving distance of several desirable resorts (Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach), we thought the points option to use them for several long weekends was attractive to us. Obviously time will tell, but we felt it was the best decision for us.

 

[DanCali]

Finally, by being a Preferred member, you can use request use of points 13 months in advance, as well as request your floating week 13 months in advance without the need for consecutive or concurrent week reservations.

Not sure that you can book your single week as a week at 13 months even if you are Premier in the DC club.

Perhaps using points if you convert it to points and pay the skim?

 

[dioxide45]

Not sure that you can book your single week as a week at 13 months even if you are Premier in the DC club.

Perhaps using points if you convert it to points and pay the skim?

You are correct. As a Premier owner you can book using points for seven or more nights at the 13 month mark. Premier Plus can book any number of nights (even just one) at the 13 month mark. The number of points you have does not affect how early or late you can book your home resort under the weeks based system.

 

[DanCali]

You are correct. As a Premier owner you can book using points for seven or more nights at the 13 month mark. Premier Plus can book any number of nights (even just one) at the 13 month mark. The number of points you have does not affect how early or late you can book your home resort under the weeks based system.

i.e., most people would not be able to book an average demand week in their season at 13 months out because they will lack the necessary points...

 

[suzannesimon]

I'm undecided. Since I own 2 non-lock-offs, the points might work well for me, but so far I've been happy with my II trades. There are a lot of great resorts that aren't Marriotts.

 

[thunderbolt]

We had our presentation/intro to the new points system at the Marriott Grande Vista this week. We own 3 resale Platinum 2 bedroom weeks. We split to 6 weeks then annually upgrade the 3 lockoffs to 1 bedrooms at a total cost of $552/yr. We went in thinking joining was a good idea, with about a 6.5 yr. payback of the $1995. fee to join. Well by the time we got out of there we were convinced not to join. The rep. said there would not be any inventory for upgrades in the near future. We would have to buy 5000 pts. to be elevated to premier plus status at a cost of $51,100. ( we are now premier, not plus ) which seemed to be the focus of his efforts.
He said I.I. inventory would be steadily depleted as the new DC points bucket would swallow up the inventory. Our Legacy points were to be separate from trust points and not have access to the trust bucket. So.... if I cannot get upgrades to 3 - 1 bedrooms annually, my savings are only 3x75. = 225./ yr. for a payback period of 9 yrs. , a bit too long for us.
Note: we still need a separate I.I. account for other owned timeshares.
I think legacy weeks are still valuable for those who buy where they want to stay and therefore will hold their value after this downturn in the economy is over.

 

[pwrshift]

If you ever want to trade outside of the Marriott family, to Royal resorts perhaps, you'd still have to be a member of II...so what's the advantage? If you check the Tug lists of to resorts, Marriott is not at the top.

 

[dioxide45]

If you ever want to trade outside of the Marriott family, to Royal resorts perhaps, you'd still have to be a member of II...so what's the advantage? If you check the Tug lists of to resorts, Marriott is not at the top.

In DC you are a member of II through the Marriott Corporate Account. You don't need a separate II account. You just have to pay the full II exchange fee. No free exchange fee when exchanging outside of Marriott resorts.

 

[thunderbolt]

Thanks for pointing that out Dioxide45 . I thought we needed 2 accounts with I.I. I still feel the entry fee and skim lost, is not worth the benefit gained, for our style of vacationing.

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks for pointing that out Dioxide45 . I thought we needed 2 accounts with I.I. I still feel the entry fee and skim lost, is not worth the benefit gained, for our style of vacationing.

If you have non Marriott weeks that you want to be able to exchange with in II, you will still need a separate II account.

 

[billwright1]

No, I will not be joining.

 

[4Reliefnow]

I joined and enrolled all weeks. So far I have made three reservations using the enrolled points at trust resorts without a problem. All my weeks were developer bought.

The last line says it all "All my weeks were developer bought"

Do the math, The point system is crazy expensive. it is like buying your weeks form the developer. Does it ever make sense to buy your weeks from the developer?

paid $5,000 for Marriott Grande Vista Platinum
Paid $8,000 for Marriott Canyon Villas Platinum

In fact I don't think it ever pays to buy a non-platinum week. You can rent on TUG with a lot more flexibility for just what the annual maintenance is. And no maintenance next year.

 

[ldj5280]

MVCI Dumped by Marriott-Tell Bill Marriott...

After years of treating MVCI members in such a way that their investments were a bad choice:
-o- year over year spikes in mntc fees
-o- more and more fees for trading to II or for points
-o- lower and lower available occupancy
-o- DC
-o- and now SPINNING MVCI OFF!

Tell Bill Marriott that this is NOT how you treat loyal investors and guests at:
www.blogs.marriott.com/marriott-on-...riott-vacation-club/comments/page/1/#comments

and on Twitter https://twitter.com/marriottintl

ONLY WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE OUR RESORTS and INVESTMENT BACK