Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?

[dmharris]

Attended a points presentation at Newport Coast this week

We own one week, two bedroom lock-off at Grande Vista, and we lock it off and deposit into II every year and have traded for fabulous spots, Waiohai, Grande Ocean, Aruba Surf Club, Newport Coast, Imperial Palms, and the lock off for a 2 bedroom at our home resort.

So I had no interest in points but wanted to hear from the horse's mouth their story. One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points. If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees. Am I right?

We were told we can still trade through II, see on-line what's available and it all works the same. Is this true?

We were offered 800 points as a bonus. But they've raised the price of points from the initial offering of about $9.20/point to about $9.80/point. We don't have the time to take any more vacations since we're self employed and we don't let ourselves rest (stupid, I know but the unpredictability of business ebbs and flows is the cause) so we won't be buying points.

Am I right this would save me money over time, given the fees stay the same or are raised proportionally one to another, Marriott and II?

 

[SueDonJ]

We own one week, two bedroom lock-off at Grande Vista, and we lock it off and deposit into II every year and have traded for fabulous spots, Waiohai, Grande Ocean, Aruba Surf Club, Newport Coast, Imperial Palms, and the lock off for a 2 bedroom at our home resort.

So I had no interest in points but wanted to hear from the horse's mouth their story. One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points. If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees. Am I right?

We were told we can still trade through II, see on-line what's available and it all works the same. Is this true?

We were offered 800 points as a bonus. But they've raised the price of points from the initial offering of about $9.20/point to about $9.80/point. We don't have the time to take any more vacations since we're self employed and we don't let ourselves rest (stupid, I know but the unpredictability of business ebbs and flows is the cause) so we won't be buying points.

Am I right this would save me money over time, given the fees stay the same or are raised proportionally one to another, Marriott and II?

Diane, I would say you have a pretty good understanding of the fee structure and the way you'll be able to do everything in II.

Yes, it appears that if you enroll in the DC and continue to do the same amount of Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges through II using your lock-offs, then your $165 annual Club Dues will be less than the Marriott/II per/transaction fees you'll be paying if you don't enroll. But in any year if you simply use your one Week as a 7-day home resort stay, which would cost you nothing in transaction fees, you will still have to pay the $165 Club Dues to remain enrolled in the DC (similar to paying II annual fees even in years that you don't exchange.)

Yes, we who have enrolled are able to use the same II interface to search and process exchanges and Getaways in our new/corporate II accounts. There are no fees for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges; the same II fees will exist for outside-Marriott exchanges.

As you know there are no guarantees that either II or Marriott won't increase fees at any time, and that includes whether or not Club Dues will always be less than per-transaction fees for the particular way you use your Weeks. But you're right in that if they each are raised proportionally then you'll be ahead of the game. If at any time you're not, you can choose to un-enroll from the DC.

Many of us who have enrolled our Week(s) have not purchased additional DC Points but have still managed to use the 800 PlusPoints bonus. You could try to add a couple days to existing reservations, maybe do an unexpected weekend away within driving distance, maybe offer a night or two as a gift to family or friends. The PlusPoints cannot be transferred or banked so their use is limited, but I'm sure we could help you figure out how to use them instead of having them expire.

The one variable that is most unknown at this time is the effect of the DC on availability of both Marriott and II inventory. There are quite a few threads going with folks trying to figure out if we're already seeing effects or will in the future. But my thinking is that if there are adverse effects on availability, enrolled Owners will be able to choose among more usage options to try to counter such effects.

Good luck with your decision. The DC works for some and not for others depending upon what's owned and how it's used most often. Generally speaking it makes less sense for owners of one Week who rarely exchange, and most sense for multi-week Owners who exchange often or want to take advantage of the less-than-7-days-stay opportunities.

 

[dmharris]

Thank you Sue for your thorough response to all my questions. I'm good to enroll now!

 

[SueDonJ]

Diane, I just read through and corrected a couple of wrong words in my post (the mind works in mysterious ways sometimes!) and wanted to make sure a couple other things are clear for you.

Talking about searching exchange and Getaway inventory in II - what I mean is that we're seeing the same results when we do those searches in our old and new II accounts, and that exchanges to other Marriotts won't require an II fee. I don't mean that Getaways to Marriotts are free in the new accounts - they're available but for the same fees as in the old accounts.

Talking about the most unknown variable, available inventory in Marriott and II from this point forward - your exchange history sounds like a pretty good one, with uptrades in most instances using your lock-off units. We don't know if those uptrades will continue, if the DC will result in a more level like-for-like II exchange product across the board. In my opinion IF it does then your usage pattern is the type most likely to be affected, no doubt, but IF it does that effect will take place regardless of whether you are enrolled or not.

Hope this makes sense ...

 

[dmharris]

I understand what you're saying; thanks! We have been lucky in our trades; I'm pretty good at watching, strategizing and we travel in off season times which adds to our ability to get good trades.

 

[wof45]

I understand what you're saying; thanks! We have been lucky in our trades; I'm pretty good at watching, strategizing and we travel in off season times which adds to our ability to get good trades.

we joined DC points, we got a good off-season bargain with points and a good high season week using points that we wouldn't have seen for a trade.

we have some non-marriott traders, so we are curious to see how they will do, since we now have two II accounts, one for DC another that has an ineligible Marriott plus the others.

To date, our $400 MF studio and $700 2BR do well -- the studio pulling 2BR Marriotts in flex time and the 2BR pulling gold season 2BR Marriotts in normal trades. I wonder how these will do in a non-DC II account.

We are already booked for 2011 vacation time, so I guess we just need to be patient to see.

 

[dioxide45]

One thing I did not understand was the fee savings even if we did not buy any points. If we lock-off, deposit both weeks into II and trade them, we're paying $600 and change each year; supposedly with the DC we would pay the $595 initial fee and then the annual fee of about $165 (I don't have the paper in front of me with the numbers so forgive me) thus by the third year we've started to save about $400 annually on fees. Am I right?

I think their math was wrong. If you only own one MGV week.

II Membership - $89
Lock off fee - $75
Exchange Fee - $109
Exchange Fee - $109

Total - $382

Subtract the $165

You save $218 per year. Not ~$400

You will break even in about three years if you are a developer owner.

 

[charlie100]

not sure about enrollment

I am not sure about the new program.

They told me that it may be easier to make a reservation on the new system because once enrolled, the inventory may not be available for the traditional reservation method. However, they offer only the number of points that is the minimum amount for the unit being enrolled.

In other words, I can currently split my unit and get two weeks, but I would not have enough points to book those two units even in the lowest season.
In addition, if a lot of people enroll, I have a lower chance of getting what I want in the traditional system.

It seems to me that I am paying them to get a lower value from what I own. I am not sure that the added flexibility and the new fee structure are worth the lower value and enrollment fees. But I may need to enroll just to keep my options open.

Am I missing something on the program?

Charlie100

 

[Wahoo Josh]

Will not enroll

Single-week owner since 1993. I received a presentation on the new system at Marriott Kauai last summer, and I have no plans to enroll.

 

[dmharris]

I think their math was wrong. If you only own one MGV week.

II Membership - $89
Lock off fee - $75
Exchange Fee - $109
Exchange Fee - $109

Total - $382

Subtract the $165

You save $218 per year. Not ~$400

You will break even in about three years if you are a developer owner.

Hmm, I've never been good with math. Is there a fee we're missing here? The sales reps talk so fast and take the paper away so you can't study it. I tried but didn't care enough to rip the paper out of her hand. In any event, the bottom line is I'm saving money by enrolling. Right? Yes we're one developer week owners.

 

[billwright1]

We had the presentation today and have decided that the cost is too high for the benefit that it would give. I bought my unit resale, not through Marriott and would have a higher fee to enroll than if I had bought it from Marriott. We don't always trade through marriott so it wouldn't mean that much.
It appears that it will become very difficult for me to trade through Marriott as the points program kicks in, but I think my Marriott week will become more valauable trading through II as Marriott weeks are removed from the II tradings system.

 

[RickSpencer]

I heard a rumor that Marriott was selling their timeshare business. Is that true?

 

[mjm1]

There is another thread that discusses this issue that you may want to refer to. Marriott announced that they will be spinning off the timeshare side of the business into a separate company. The Marriott family will continue to own 21% of both companies.

 

[AlmostRetired]

Guidance Please

I own one week at the Monarch which allows me to exchange for 125K (or 120K not sure ) Marriott reward points every year. I purchased this on resale in 1992. I either exchange for points and use it at hotels or exchange for another Marriott timeshare. I am a Platinum member and often stay in Marriott hotels in general.

I own a second non Marriott timeshare in orlando that I purchased in 1991 also on resale. I have never stayed their and only exchange it.

I have a paid up II membership through 2014.

I am shocked how out of touch I have become on what marriott is doing with the point system. I didn't have a clue this was going on.

This BB has been very helpful.

I see limited value for me. I still have to join II for the other week. I can still trade for other Marriott timeshares. I get ability to use the new points for shorter stays.

There is on question I do have. Assume I move over to the new system. Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points? This could be an interesting additional flexibility.


Can someone correct me on the limited value in my situation?

Thanks in advance,

 

[dioxide45]

There is on question I do have. Assume I move over to the new system. Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points? This could be an interesting additional flexibility.


Can someone correct me on the limited value in my situation?

Thanks in advance,

None of your current usage options go away. So even if you enroll, you will still be able to exchange for MRP as you always have.

 

[wof45]

I own one week at the Monarch which allows me to exchange for 125K (or 120K not sure ) Marriott reward points every year. I purchased this on resale in 1992. I either exchange for points and use it at hotels or exchange for another Marriott timeshare. I am a Platinum member and often stay in Marriott hotels in general.

I own a second non Marriott timeshare in orlando that I purchased in 1991 also on resale. I have never stayed their and only exchange it.

I have a paid up II membership through 2014.

I am shocked how out of touch I have become on what marriott is doing with the point system. I didn't have a clue this was going on.

This BB has been very helpful.

I see limited value for me. I still have to join II for the other week. I can still trade for other Marriott timeshares. I get ability to use the new points for shorter stays.

There is on question I do have. Assume I move over to the new system. Do I have the option of getting either the new points or the reward points for my week or do I only get the new points? This could be an interesting additional flexibility.


Can someone correct me on the limited value in my situation?

Thanks in advance,

I believe there is general agreement that there is no apparent benefit to enrolling in the DC points program for someone who owns only one MVC week, unless you always lock it off and trade both sides. Or, if you also buy DC points from MVC.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Can New II Account Be Upgraded to Gold?

Diane, Talking about searching exchange and Getaway inventory in II - what I mean is that we're seeing the same results when we do those searches in our old and new II accounts, and that exchanges to other Marriotts won't require an II fee. I don't mean that Getaways to Marriotts are free in the new accounts - they're available but for the same fees as in the old accounts.

By any chance, do you know if the new II account can be upgraded to Interval Gold?

 

[SueDonJ]

By any chance, do you know if the new II account can be upgraded to Interval Gold?

Hmmmm. I don't know. The only thing I would guess at, is that IF it is available, then the fee to upgrade will not be covered by the DC Club Dues (which do cover the II enrollment fee.)

On the sign-in page both accounts have a notation that Gold is "Not Available." But if I go into the Profile section of my old/individual account and click on the "Renew/Upgrade" button, then I can go all the way through to the payment page to upgrade to Gold. Don't know what would happen if I tried to pay for it, not going to try.

If I click the same button that's available for the new/individual account, then I get an error message with all kinds of gobbledygook code that makes no sense to me. Don't know if this means it's not available, because that same error message is occurring with different clicks on both accounts. It might mean Gold isn't available, it might have nothing to do with Gold and is related to other technical glitches that II seems to be having on-and-off since the rollout.

I just tried to do a TUG search for "II Gold corporate" in the Marriott section and got an error message there, too. (Is it going to be one of those days?!) You may want to post this question in a new thread and maybe someone who has enrolled and has been able to upgrade will see it.

 

[Cmore]

Multi week owner, we enrolled.

1) We'll save on annual fees

2) Increased flexibility and potentially better inventory access

3) We'll still trade via II for full weeks, but plan to use some points for 5 night stays and possibly an explorer trip or two.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Can the new II Account be Upgraded to Gold?

SDJ - Thanks much. The thought of starting a new thread crossed my mind, but it seemed on-point to raise the question here. Saving $$, including II fees appears to be among DC's attractive features. But, Interval Gold currently work for us.

As illustrated above, with ShortStay Exchange we can exchange one week (7 nights) for two vacations ranging from 2 to 6 nights each. (MVC resorts are included when available. We've done just that, it works.) This year, II offered a Bonus AC for each week we deposited. In combination w/ShortStay, that gives us almost 3 weeks for 1 week. II Gold also gives complimentary Hertz membership and other discounts.


In order to retain these II Gold benefits we have to keep our II membership plus upgrade. If the new II account could be upgraded to Gold at a discounted fee, that would retain the options we currently enjoy and make a stronger case for enrolling in DC.

Hmmmm. I don't know. The only thing I would guess at, is that IF it is available, then the fee to upgrade will not be covered by the DC Club Dues (which do cover the II enrollment fee.)

You may want to post this question in a new thread and maybe someone who has enrolled and has been able to upgrade will see it.

 

[dioxide45]

II gold is really an add on membership. It has a set fee. Not sure why it would be discounted under the corporate account. The corporate account covers basic membership. I don't see why you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.

 

[TJCNewYork]

If it's not broke, don't fix it

II gold is really an add on membership. It has a set fee. Not sure why it would be discounted under the corporate account. The corporate account covers basic membership. I don't see why you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.

Dioxide: To clear this up for sure, I'm planning to pose the question to the Marriott Desk at II as well as II, tomorrow since Owner Services is already closed. So TUGers, stay tuned.


In the meantime, some background. We attended a DC presentation last September and chose to decline enrollment in favor of 'wait and see'. We were reluctant to spend $$ to enroll in DC only to find out that we would have to $pend more $$ to maintain a separate II account and upgrade it to II Gold anyway to get the value-add.


By mid-November, we started receiving e-mails from MVCI notifying us about amendments to Reservations Procedures for our resorts. Realizing that nothing was broken, there was nothing to fix. If we opted to occupy, little changed, if we opted to exchange, nothing changed either. (Aside from the lag time in MVCI to owner communications, this is positive, btw)


Guided by,"If it's not broke, don't fix it," our hunch (not to enroll and save $$) proved correct. I appreciate that it had to be an extraordinary job for MVCI to meticulously amend by-laws for 50+ resorts and do so w/o breaching any statutes that protect the weeks that legacy owners currently enjoy. MVCI has undertaken the gauntlet to reassure legacy owners of the status quo. We breathe a sigh of relief.


Quoting HotCoffee from another thread,

I do hope that the Marriott spin-off flourishes. I am also hoping for some customer-oriented changes down the road that will:

1. improve resale values by enabling future resales a way to get into the DC program and by providing an acceptable resale option for points,
2. provide a better enrollment incentive to encourage a higher percentage of enrollments,
3. provide cheaper DC exchange options so as to encourage more people to buy points outright,
4. provide more places to exchange into in more locations.

With that positive spirit in mind, here's another suggestion:

Enhance Destination Club with Destination Club Gold to include the features of II Gold. Looking at GregT's updated Point Redemption Values spreadsheet, perhaps spinco might also consider Bonus Marriott Rewards points as incentive, too.


Cheers

TJCNewYork

 

[TJCNewYork]

Final Answer: The new II account cannot be upgraded to II Gold

Dioxide and all: The MD at II states that the new II account cannot be upgraded to II Gold. So, if I decided to enroll in DC and want II Gold benefits, I have to maintain a separate II basic membership account and pay the upgrade fee.

I don't see why you couldn't buy gold membership for the regular gold fee price.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Disregard Final Answer-New Corporate Account CAN BE UPGRADED to II Gold

All - Kindly disregard the earlier message. Contrary to the Marriott Desk, Interval double-checked and confirms that the new corporate account can be upgraded to II Gold for an additional fee.

 

[OldPantry]

I hear lots of "lifestyle" arguments in favor of buying VC points. "Yeah, it's a bit expensive, but you can lock in irreplaceable access to the best places at the best time."
Well, I've done a little homework on that "irreplaceable" argument, working with Ko Olina (my home resort). Its ultra premium periods, corresponding point costs for 2BR mountain view and ocean view, Marriott rental costs, Redweek rental costs and points costs are respectively:
------------------------MV OV------Marriott Rental---Redweek Rental----Real cost of points
Spring Break (4/22):-----4800 6025--$404*/442*------$243/271----------$597/759
Thanksgiving:-----------4800 6025--$536^/526#------ $314/543(3BR)----$597/749
Christmas:--------------4800 6025--$569^/619^------$414/426----------$597/749
New Year's:-------------5500 6875--$484#N/A--------$314/429---------$684

* = MOD Discount, #Advance Purchase, ^ Leisure Rate
Note that in every case, renting directly from Marriott yields significant savings over buying points.

Real cost for points is derived by the $.40/point maintenance fee plus a calculation for what the investment could reasonably yield if not given to Marriott. I have used a figure of just under 5%, which is available right now (one example being a Goldman Sachs 6.75% bond of 2037, A2/A- rated, yielding 6.89% to maturity). Even after taxes, this bond (widely available) will yield nearly 5%. So, for example, an OV unit requiring 6025 points would cost $59,074. The 4% MF plus the 4.8% opportunity cost would be $5317 yearly, or $749 a night. Compare that to Marriott-direct costs between $442 and $619 a night. Only one of these most desirable weeks of the year is unavailable right now, an oceanview New Year's unit.

So, I would argue that you can buy the best that Marriott offers, directly from Marriott, and still save achieve significant savings over a points "investment". Go to Redweek and arrange a rental from a weeks owner, and the savings become huge. Unless you're buying just enough new points to flesh out your legacy week exchange points (but that's a minimum of 1500 points, remember), new points look like a truly terrible deal.