Do you plan to or have you enrolled in the new points program?

[mas]

The poll options right now, just looking at the numbers and not the comments, suggest a view that is more slanted toward a favorable opinion of the DC program than actually exists, IMHO. I would be willing to guess that many of the enrollees don't plan to convert weeks to points, at least for now.

Another poll question would be:
"Of those enrolled, do you plan to convert your week(s) for points?.. Yes or No?"

 

[taffy19]

My advice to Hubby. In 3 years Marriott will raise fees, thus you will always be chasing the fee savings.

My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!

The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to? They may change that too.

 

[IngridN]

My advice to Hubby. In 3 years Marriott will raise fees, thus you will always be chasing the fee savings.

As long as it's less than $567 in today's dollars, we're good .

Ingrid

 

[IngridN]

My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!

The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to? They may change that too.

Other than the voting thing, there are no restrictions.

I'm not worried about the ability to opt out...it is an exchange company after all.

Ingrid

 

[DanCali]

Other than the voting thing, there are no restrictions.

I'm not worried about the ability to opt out...it is an exchange company after all.

Ingrid

Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.

 

[IngridN]

Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.

I dislike the new program as much as you do, however, given my situation, it makes sense to join. As I mentioned earlier, I have no intention to utilize the points as it makes no sense for us at this time. If our travel habits change, perhaps in the future.

However, the $ savings are real and we intend to take advantage of them for as long as it works in our favor. Once it ceases to work to our advantage, I'll opt out. And if as you say (and I suspect you are correct), Marriott will take away the ability to deposit the week reserved, we will most likely opt out of the program at that time. I did the math again just to make sure I recalled correctly, and we currently spend $556 per year + any flex upgrades which can add another $218...for us, it makes sense to join.

Ingrid

 

[mpizza]

I have joined, own 1 developer and 4 resales.

I am actually using the recent changes to simplify and restructure my timeshare portfolio. I am divesting my RCI membership (weeks and points). I had previously utilized my RCI points account for shorter stays and can now use Marriott. The RCI weeks changes now make it impossible to get the trades I previously received, at least with Marriott there is the opportunity to still trade week for week.

Maria

 

[windje2000]

Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.

It is too good to be permanently true - Marriott is buying members with a loss leading fee structure in the hope of broadening and deepening inventory availability for Trust members and owners. In my situation I'll likely save a few nickels before they re-up the prices.

Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub. Own where you vacation . . .

Too bad the poll doesn't go further and

1. ask whether or not the weeks are developer or resale, and

2. ask about likelihood of point election.

 

[wof45]

It is too good to be permanently true - Marriott is buying members with a loss leading fee structure in the hope of broadening and deepening inventory availability for Trust members and owners. In my situation I'll likely save a few nickels before they re-up the prices.

Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub. Own where you vacation . . .

IMHO, I do not think this is a loss leading fee structure. It is certainly cheaper than the II structure, but Marriott could handle it through site automation (hopefully) or else by using a bulk purchase agreement with II. I think the bulk purchase agreement is more likely since II would offer discounts to Marriott to keep the business in these bad times, and we have all been paying retail rates to II.

 

[wof45]

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.

Marriott can certainly change the rules at their discretion. But this process currently follows the rules.

Since you need to deposit a valid reservation, that deposit is Marriott's chance to exchange the week you deposit for another equal week in II -- and you shouldn't care. But the week you deposited could become available to DC for points reservations and never make it into II on-line inventory.

 

[SueDonJ]

Marriott did not do this so you can save $567 a year... If something sounds too good, it is.

It is only a matter of time before they take away your ability to deposit the week you reserved in II.

But any negative effects the DC might have on the existing II system will apply to Weeks whether or not they're enrolled in the DC, right? So even if they do take away our choice of II deposit, or the DC does cause diminished inventory in II, etc ..., we still suffer whatever effects even if we don't enroll our Weeks in the DC.

The questions still come down to a comparison between the two systems as they exist today - will you get better exchange value from II or the DC, and which is more cost effective to use? Remember, too, II isn't any more protected from policy changes or increasing fees than the DC.

There aren't any right answers! It all depends on what you own and how you're able to use it. For some the answer is II, and for some the answer is the DC (and not just because the name "Marriott" is on it.) All you're doing if you enroll is giving yourself another choice - enrollment in the DC doesn't mean you're giving up II, it means you can use either system.

 

[SueDonJ]

My opinion too and restrictions galore! Lottery!

The good thing is that you can opt-out but will you always be able to? They may change that too.

Emmy, if you're talking about the language in the DC contracts that says Marriott can institute a lottery process to ensure that all owners get a reasonable chance at using certain prime weeks in a season, that language is in some of the original contracts for Weeks, too. I'd guess that IF Marriott puts something like this into play it will affect every owner and not just DC Members.

I agree with Ingrid that there's nothing that says Marriott can force a Weeks owner to remain with the DC - it's simply an overlay exchange system. Weeks owners who enroll don't give up their rights to use their Weeks exactly the same as un-enrolled owners can.

 

[SueDonJ]

I wonder of those who are still not sure whether they will join, are you planning to make a decision prior to the 12/31 deadline that Marriott gave for the 800 PlusPoints, or waiting however long it takes for you to get a good idea of how the system is working for those who have joined, or something else?

 

[Pens_Fan]

Single week owner.

Did not join.

I rarely trade and saw no advantage in joining the new system, monetary or otherwise.

 

[nanceetom]

No, we've not joined our 3 devoper weeks. The joing fee is too high.

 

[classiclincoln]

So far, it looks like about 60% are not joining. Would love to see how this poll would fare using all Marriott owners...

 

[suzannesimon]

I'm not opposed to joining but find no reason at this point. I'm perfectly happy trading for non-Marriott resorts in Interval. I would be more inclined to join if they had a clubs in Mexico and a couple more Caribbean islands.

 

[DanCali]

Since you need to deposit a valid reservation, that deposit is Marriott's chance to exchange the week you deposit for another equal week in II -- and you shouldn't care.

If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value.

Regarding the ability to deposit your reservation in II, if they go that route, it likely would apply to everyone, whether or not you joined DClub. Own where you vacation . . .

But any negative effects the DC might have on the existing II system will apply to Weeks whether or not they're enrolled in the DC, right?

This is not obvious to me at all. In the DC Marriott can change the rules tomorrow and it wouldn't surprise anyone. If you don't like it you can opt out.

For people not part of the club, depositing a confirmed reservation is something that has been going on for 20+ years and it wouldn't surprise me if the CC&Rs allow that as a deeded right. But even if not, I suspect this would be much harder and legally challenging for Marriott to do this given the history and various representations made over time (at time of purchase, recorded VOA calls etc).

I believe that if this change comes, it will apply to elrolled weeks only.

(P.S. I know Starwood made this change, but let's remember that at Starwood the VOIs started out as "club weeks" and turn to weeks VOIs only upon a resale. Marriott has been a weeks system that added a club later on - it's a different situation)

 

[Nickfromct]

Not joining. Don't see the value for paying 2k upfront. If necessary, I'm fine with visiting Aruba or Beach Place each year or trading for non-Marriotts in II. Plus, we've done really well with II with their 2 for 1 XYZ weeks.

 

[wof45]

If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value.

what I actually said was that if II got the week that you deposited and marriott exchanged that with II, you should not care what week was actually at II as long as you got credit for your deposited week.

 

[SueDonJ]

If I reserve a week with TDO 150 and Marriott deposits a week with TDI 80 of course I would care... So would anyone else who cares about maximizing exchange value. ...

This is not obvious to me at all. In the DC Marriott can change the rules tomorrow and it wouldn't surprise anyone. If you don't like it you can opt out.

For people not part of the club, depositing a confirmed reservation is something that has been going on for 20+ years and it wouldn't surprise me if the CC&Rs allow that as a deeded right. But even if not, I suspect this would be much harder and legally challenging for Marriott to do this given the history and various representations made over time (at time of purchase, recorded VOA calls etc).

I believe that if this change comes, it will apply to elrolled weeks only.

(P.S. I know Starwood made this change, but let's remember that at Starwood the VOIs started out as "club weeks" and turn to weeks VOIs only upon a resale. Marriott has been a weeks system that added a club later on - it's a different situation)

We've assumed (I know, I know) that the purpose of Marriott assigning Weeks for deposits into II would be to allow access to the more-desired Weeks intervals by DC Members, because those are the intervals needed for DC exchanges which will ensure the success of their new program. I believe that there is enough leeway in the language of the Weeks documents for Marriott to make such a change that will apply to all Weeks, and I also believe that it's a possibility based on the recent revisions to the Reservations Procedures docs talked about here. Not saying that it will happen, only that there's a possibility it could. I don't understand why you think it would be applied to only Enrolled Weeks, if any, if the language that would allow it is in the Weeks documents and not the DC docs, and seeing as Weeks usage is governed by the Weeks documents.

If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company (or for mingling in whatever ways they can among the "buckets.") The DC Point values of the Exchange Members' deposits and requested intervals aren't affected at all by the II TDI; and, Exchange Members aren't required to reserve a Weeks interval prior to converting a Week to DC Points. It's the Weeks Owners (un-enrolled and Exchange Members who are not converting their Weeks to DC Points) who are reserving the high-TDI-value intervals for deposits into II. So if Marriott was to begin the practice of assigning Weeks for II deposits, and if there's nothing in the Weeks documents to prohibit it, why wouldn't they apply it across the board with all Weeks usage?

 

[DanCali]

I don't understand why you think it would be applied to only Enrolled Weeks, if any, if the language that would allow it is in the Weeks documents and not the DC docs, and seeing as Weeks usage is governed by the Weeks documents.

Because Marriott can amend the DC rules (unilaterally, at any point in time) to say that if you are in the DC you giveup any right you may have had to deposit a confirmed use period. It is probably not as easy to do outside the DC, or they would have done it already...

Remember that if a change like this is done, Marriott can also keep the "good reservation" for itself (not just for the DC) and rent it out for a profit, as long as they give II some other week they have in that same season. That is why I believe that if it was easy to do in the weeks system, it would have been done already and if it will be done within the DC it will not necessarily benefit the enrollees...

If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company

It's a lot worse than that. What I said above also applies to conversion of weeks to points only there Marriott can give the DC relatively undesirable weeks worth the same number of points as a Hawaii week (we're all waiting to see if GergT's 3BR becomes available at 13 months out...). Do you know for a fact Marriott puts your summer HHI week into the DC when you elect points or do they put 2 Orlando weeks?

So if Marriott was to begin the practice of assigning Weeks for II deposits, and if there's nothing in the Weeks documents to prohibit it, why wouldn't they apply it across the board with all Weeks usage?

(a) I am not sure the CC&Rs don't side with owners on this and (b) they would create ill-will with 400,000 owners, not just 40,000 who agreed that anything can change at any point unilaterally, and (c) they would get sued...

 

[SueDonJ]

Because Marriott can amend the DC rules (unilaterally, at any point in time) to say that if you are in the DC you giveup any right you may have had to deposit a confirmed use period. It is probably not as easy to do outside the DC, or they would have done it already...

Remember that if a change like this is done, Marriott can also keep the "good reservation" for itself (not just for the DC) and rent it out for a profit, as long as they give II some other week they have in that same season. That is why I believe that if it was easy to do in the weeks system, it would have been done already and if it will be done within the DC it will not necessarily benefit the enrollees...

I just don't see how enrollment in the DC gives Marriott the right to change the rules for usage of Weeks, whether we're talking about un-enrolled Weeks or enrolled Weeks which are not converted to DC Points. The Weeks docs govern Weeks usage, the DC docs govern DC Points usage. Every stipulation in the DC docs that would apply to an "affiliate program" (which is how I think II would be defined within the context of the DC, if they tried to make this change for only Enrolled Owners by way of amendments to the DC) applies to DC Points usage, not Weeks usage. As far as how easy it may or may not be for them to change how we've been doing it, I think the recent revisions to the Reservations Procedures documents make it much easier to implement by way of amendments to the Weeks docs than the DC docs. And thus, much easier to implement across ALL Weeks if it's implemented at all.

It's a lot worse than that. What I said above also applies to conversion of weeks to points only there Marriott can give the DC relatively undesirable weeks worth the same number of points as a Hawaii week (we're all waiting to see if GergT's 3BR becomes available at 13 months out...). Do you know for a fact Marriott puts your summer HHI week into the DC when you elect points or do they put 2 Orlando weeks?

We're in agreement here. My entire sentence reads, "If an Exchange Member converts a Week to Points, Marriott already has the ability to choose any interval from the available Weeks inventory which matches the Exchange Member's particular season/unit/view, for deposits into the DC Exchange Company (or for mingling in whatever ways they can among the 'buckets.')" You quoted it without the parenthesized phrase, which says effectively the same thing you're saying in that Marriott has a whole lot of leeway to deposit/withdraw what they consider equal-value intervals among the "buckets" of Weeks, DC and II inventory. I think that if I convert a Week to DC Points, Marriott uses it in whichever way they need to use it to further their aim of DC success.

(a) I am not sure the CC&Rs don't side with owners on this and (b) they would create ill-will with 400,000 owners, not just 40,000 who agreed that anything can change at any point unilaterally, and (c) they would get sued...

Marriott's proven time and again that "ill will" among the Owners is not enough to stop them from doing what they believe they have a right to do. They can get sued anytime by one or one hundred thousand, but whether they can defend against a suit is another thing entirely. I don't see anything in the documents for SurfWatch or Barony Beach that guarantees an Owner can choose the particular Week to be deposited for an II exchange (which is not to say that it's not in other resort docs,) but I do see a lot of related leeway for Marriott in them, especially in the recent revisions of the Reservations Procedures documents. As well, if we're talking about a pattern of use that can be proven, Marriott can rely on the interface of my-vacationclub.com to show that Weeks Owners who utilized the "Exchange" button there prior to the introduction of the DC did not choose a particular week in season. I'm sure they also have records which will show that all Owners who telephoned in didn't either.

Realistically, Dan, how many non-TUG Owners do you think actually know about the II demand index and utilize it to get the most value out of exchanging their Weeks in II? I would guess not very many, judging by the various surveys over the years that show a majority of MVCI Owners are displeased with the results they've gotten from II. Just a guess, though, I don't really know. But I do know that TUG represents a very small sampling of MVCI Owners, and we're probably much more aware about all these tricks and hints than the majority ownership.

 

[labguides]

Have heard nothing about point system. Where can I learn more?

We own two weeks in Palm Desert.

Later.. just found info on points system. Should we have received info from Marriott or II about this?

 

[Cathyb]

DaveM -- question on this

Please vote.

Since the deadline is approaching at the lower price, is there some way another Inquiry can be set up to see if those that voted 'not sure' have now made a decision?