CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[byeloe]

I think they manipulated the facts in order to sell you something, but time will tell for sure. Glad that you are satisfied with your purchase

 

[sharr7]

What exactly was traded in and then what was received/purchased?

It sounds like a lot of "benefit" of what you received is the promise that every point (SO/DP) you own will just flow freely and effortlessly between systems. And that without this purchase that was not possible.

No one knows for sure but there's a lot of speculation that developer purchases (and enrolled) will have full access to whatever exchanges are permitted between systems.

 

[DanCali]

Yes we fell for their presentation, mostly because by the time they gave us all the credits, it was not exorbitant in cost. Also my memory of how Marriott DC points increased very fast after the first offer played into our decision. We also get to use our Encore package, but without having to attend the timeshare presentation. And we save a considerable amount in maintenance fees since we skip a year of usage [new package starts in 2024]. We have bonus and banked points to use up, so using these and saving the maintenance fee also played into our decision.

Yes, they did mark to market the StarOptions. As I said, it worked for us because of all the credits, but it might now work for very many other folks. That's why I wanted to put this information out for people to have when Marriott or Vistana comes calling.

When you say they "marked to market the StarOptions" - Did you give up a deeded week you had previously purchased, or was it Flex points that they just repriced?

Like I said, even if not exorbitant cost, it seems to me like it was unnecessary. But you've been on this message board longer than I have, so you already know what the sentiment here is. You can still rescind...

I'll just add that if your usage starts in 2024 and your maintenance fees start in 2024 you are not really saving on maintenance fees - just deferring usage on something you own and the cost associated with it. Was that part of the "credits" they presumably gave you? Did you get any bonus (one time use) points as part of the deal?

Marriott DC points cost did increase since the launch. Gives me an excuse to tell a salesperson that if I didn't buy at $10, why would I buy at $15? Money invested in the stock market over the past 12 years is way ahead of the increase in the cost of DC points, so I'm glad kept the money where I did (and it's not like the value of DC points purchased in 2010 increased with their developer selling price)

 

[CKMason]

When you say they "marked to market the StarOptions" - Did you give up a deeded week you had previously purchased, or was it Flex points that they just repriced?

Like I said, even if not exorbitant cost, it seems to me like it was unnecessary. But you've been on this message board longer than I have, so you already know what the sentiment here is. You can still rescind...

I'll just add that if your usage starts in 2024 and your maintenance fees start in 2024 you are not really saving on maintenance fees - just deferring usage on something you own and the cost associated with it. Was that part of the "credits" they presumably gave you? Did you get any bonus (one time use) points as part of the deal?

Marriott DC points cost did increase since the launch. Gives me an excuse to tell a salesperson that if I didn't buy at $10, why would I buy at $15?

We had Flex points only which were repriced. And you are right about the maintenance fee, but as I pointed out, we really don't need the StarOptions for which we pay a maintenance fee for 2023, so that worked in our favor. Deferring the maintenance fee was not part of the credits, but part of our decision making.

We did get 68,000 StarOptions as bonus points. We had an alternate choice of 113,000 Bonvoy points but did not have a need for those.

We may have gotten "stung" but this was an offer and so far what has been on this board is speculation.

 

[kozykritter]

We are currently at Sheraton Broadway Plantation in Myrtle Beach and attended a sales presentation for Vistana on April 23. According to the salesperson the locations in Myrtle Beach and in Orlando (both Marriott and Vistana) are engaged in “pre-rollout” sales presentations relating to the rollout of the “blended” system on July 1—or as our salesperson put it “late summer”. In addition to the presentations at Myrtle Beach and Orlando, there are also dog and pony shows for invited owners in other locations, including Washington DC.

Before I go further, you need to know that our situation may not be typical. We are 3-Star Elite with Vistana and Chairman’s Club with Marriott all with developer purchases. (Yes, I know but that is a discussion for another time.). I do not know how Vistana/Marriott will handle resale purchases in this new system.

According to what the salespersons (one from the Vistana side and one from the Marriott side) told us, if you buy into the blended system, both your StarOptions and your Marriott ownership (for us points and weeks) will show up together on both the Vistana dashboard and the Marriott web account. You will be able to move, at no further cost, Vistana points into Destination Points and vice versa. You will be able to make Marriott reservations in the Vistana system and vice-versa. If you have an II account for Marriott and one for Vistana, those will also be merged into one account. The blended system will also move your Vistana points into the Marriott Trust, which will then allow for Vistana StarOptions to be resold to Marriott [Vistana currently does not do buy-backs] and, according to the sales people, will ease inheritance issues, especially if your children don’t want the timeshares [never could get this straight in my mind, except that with Vistana, it appears that the timeshares roll into your estate automatically, but I thought that the executor could always reject them.]

In addition, instead of the various fees that Vistana charges [banking, point conversion to Marriott Bonvoy, II fees for internal (Marriott to Vistana and vice-versa) exchanges, reservation cancellations, guest fees], these will now all be covered by the standard Marriott fee for the appropriate level, The Marriott fee covers both Vistana and Marriott membership, but I suspect it will go up proportionately. In addition, there will be no more housekeeping fees as we now experience with Vistana when the number of uses of points exceeds a certain level.

In the blended system, there is no more Home Resort window for reservations. All Vistana resorts will be able to be booked 12 months out and all Marriott resorts 13 months out, at least for Chairman’s Club level members. I am assuming that to book a Marriott with Vistana StarOptions, one would first have to convert the number needed and then the timeframe would apply.

The process requires one to turn in their current ownership of StarOptions and repurchase at the current StarOption point value. We were given full credit for the dollars we spent on our current ownership plus credit for an Explorer package we had purchased earlier plus credit for the hotels we stayed in on the road getting to Myrtle Beach. [They give up to 10 days credit coming and going; we got a good deal because we stayed on Marriott Bonvoy points on our trip and got credit for full value of the room rate.].

We have 176,700 StarOptions which would be valued at 5,140 Destination Points in the blended system. [34.37 StarOptions to 1 Destination Club Point]. It does appear that there will still be some “skim” in the system from Vistana to Marriott. I did a quick analysis comparing 2-bedroom lockouts in prime time [February/March] for Marriott Desert Springs II [3,775 Destination Club Points] and Westin Mission Hills [148,100 StarOptions] with the result of 39.23 StarOptions points to 1 Destination Club Point]. [Purchase price: 34.37; spend price 39.23]. Even in the blended system, it probably would be better to use StarOptions for Vistana resorts and Destination Club points for Marriott resorts.

The claim is, and I have no idea if it is true, it will be more expensive on the Marriott side to buy into the system. Essentially the current going price for a StarOption is about $.43 per point which should make a Marriott Destination Club point run about $14.72.

That is pretty much my brain dump about what we were told. Of course, there is NO paperwork to undergird the statements made. We are supposed to get it in the coming weeks as the system rolls out for good. Caveat emptor.

I will post this on the Marriott Board for their information also.

Thanks for the brain dump! Interesting to see the sales approach taken with someone that owns a significant portion in both systems. One has to wonder how much of what they said would actually apply to a Vistana-only owner but I guess that's one of the burning questions of this thread

 

[DanCali]

We may have gotten "stung" but this was an offer and so far what has been on this board is speculation.

So, if I understand correctly, the offer was to:

(1) Take 176,000 Flex points you bought from the developer some years ago, reprice them at current price (e.g., pay another X cents per point that you already own)
(2) Sweeten the financial impact with credits for an explorer package and hotels you paid for on the recent trip,
(3) Add 67,000 one time use Staroptions that you can use in the next 2 years or so.

And they represented that if you did this you would gain access to the new system planned to launch later this year, but you would be locked out if not? Even though all your prior SVN and MVC purchases were from the developer?

 

[Mulege]

Hh

 

[CPNY]

Interesting, according to your sales rep Marriott owners can convert DC points to SO? I haven’t heard that before.

 

[Eric B]

Interesting, according to your sales rep Marriott owners can convert DC points to SO? I haven’t heard that before.

Thought that was interesting, too - plus Marriott owners would be able to book anywhere at 12 months because somehow they are doing away with home resorts.

The other nice thing is avoiding the mandatory inheritance provisions that the current Vistana ownership is somehow able to impose on your heirs regardless of State laws allowing refusal.

 

[DanCali]

Interesting, according to your sales rep Marriott owners can convert DC points to SO? I haven’t heard that before.

Perhaps that could work - if a Flex owner trades for DC points, why not allow someone else to trade DC points back for the Flex points?

They could refer to that as "Skim two owners with one stone!" or "Skim two owners with no trade!"

 

[CPNY]

Perhaps that could work - if a Flex owner trades for DC points, why not allow someone else to trade DC points back for the Flex points?

They could refer to that as "Skim two owners with one stone!" or "Skim two owners with no trade!"

Would those Marriott owners be bound to VSN booking rules? That would effectively kill the VSN for deeded week owners who may want to use SO at 8 months

 

[CPNY]

Thought that was interesting, too - plus Marriott owners would be able to book anywhere at 12 months because somehow they are doing away with home resorts.

The other nice thing is avoiding the mandatory inheritance provisions that the current Vistana ownership is somehow able to impose on your heirs regardless of State laws allowing refusal.

I think they have it wrong, I can’t see Marriott owners converting to SO. If they are trying to move everyone to DC points, why would they allow DC points convert to a system they would love to discontinue. Marriott owns enough vistana inventory to fund the DC exchange to make available for DC owners at launch, plus whatever inventory VSN owners convert. This is why I think inventory in the VSN will be diminished. Today, to my knowledge Marriott funds some inventory in the VSN, Interval, and their rental program. I can see less staying in the VSN. They can use the network rules and fund the DC exchange instead of the VSN.

 

[remowidget]

Interesting, according to your sales rep Marriott owners can convert DC points to SO? I haven’t heard that before.

Sales has been telling us this for years. ie, we won't be able to book at 8 months because the Marriot owners will be booking everything up. So...

I don't buy it. It just doesn't make sense. What is being suggested about Vistana to Marriott transfers does make sense. It makes sense to me that if I transfer my ownership to Destination Points, my Vistana Ownership will transfer into Marriott for Marriott owners to book. There is a debit/credit transfer balancing the DC Trust. It makes sense that they will only sell Destination Points in the future. However, does it make sense that Marriott owners will be able to do the reverse? If so, we will be able to book Marriott properties in Vistana with StarOptions. Where are the pages showing how many StarOptions it will take to book Marriott resorts. If I buy that Marriott will only sell Destination Points in the future, why would they allow the trade to go the other way. It makes no sense.

 

[DanCali]

Would those Marriott owners be bound to VSN booking rules? That would effectively kill the VSN for deeded week owners who may want to use SO at 8 months

I would imagine that whatever you exchange to you'd be bound by those rules. If you trade for Flex points you can use them as Flex points.

However, my previous comment was more in jest - I also think DC points is the only currency people will exchange to. Too complicated to learn the Flex system if you come from a totally different system.

 

[dioxide45]

So far, we have seen no indication anywhere that DC owners could convert to StarOptions and I certainly wouldn't expect that. Now, it could be possible for the MVC Exchange Company or DC trust to come into control of weeks that are part of VSN. Think along the lines of a mandatory week owner but instead that week is in the DC Trust. Couldn't the DC Trust effectively use StarOptions at 8 months to book anything in VSN? It has been long thought that there is some movement of inventory between DC and II when the need arises. DC either exchanges for inventory in II or the MVC Exchange Company and II have a relationship where they can swap inventory.

In any event, DC points if they could even convert to SOs wouldn't be able to pull inventory out any earlier than eight months.

We also have the situation where someone elects Club Points on their Sheraton or Westin Flex VOI. Once that is in the DC Exchange Company, the exchange company can then book just about anything available from the Sheraton or Westin Flex trust at the 12 month mark in order to fulfill a reservation request.

 

[remowidget]

[QUOTE="dioxide45, post: 2776058, member: 12397"
In any event, DC points if they could even convert to SOs wouldn't be able to pull inventory out any earlier than eight months.

We also have the situation where someone elects Club Points on their Sheraton or Westin Flex VOI. Once that is in the DC Exchange Company, the exchange company can then book just about anything available from the Sheraton or Westin Flex trust at the 12 month mark in order to fulfill a reservation request.
[/QUOTE]
They probably could cook the books to some extent that way, but if they were going to do that why not just take all the best weeks to sell for cash? It seems unlikely to me that they would care at this level. They want to make their program better to sell more Destination Points. I'd bet they are doing their best to not alienate Vistana owners, who are their second best potential group of customers.

 

[dioxide45]

They probably could cook the books to some extent that way, but if they were going to do that why not just take all the best weeks to sell for cash? It seems unlikely to me that they would care at this level. They want to make their program better to sell more Destination Points. I'd bet they are doing their best to not alienate Vistana owners, who are their second best potential group of customers.

It isn't really cooking the books by doing this. It would be within the usage rights of the inventory they own/hold. Vistana owns some unsold Flex inventory and they do attempt to rent that off for cash on Marriott.com. MVC does the same with unsold inventory they hold.

 

[Mroze]

I saw a Training-Video that explicitly stated that this would be a ONE-WAY integration.
Vistana-SO --> Marriott-DC ONLY.

 

[byeloe]

exactly, it seems pretty clear that the "2 salesman" had their routine down pat

 

[Ken555]

Interesting, according to your sales rep Marriott owners can convert DC points to SO? I haven’t heard that before.

Perhaps this was just salesspeak for the ability to obtain reservations at Vistana resorts using DPs.


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[remowidget]

Perhaps this was just salesspeak for the ability to obtain reservations at Vistana resorts using DPs.


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OMG. Lol. Brave to stand up for the salespeople on the tug.

 

[Ken555]

OMG. Lol. Brave to stand up for the salespeople. On the tug.

No, not defending. Interpreting the sales weasels was a 400 level collegiate course I took long ago…


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[vacationtime1]

No, not defending. Interpreting the sales weasels was a 400 level collegiate course I took long ago…


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That course is now offered here on TUG for free.

Let's see: (1) if their lips move, they are probably lying; (2) if it's not in writing, it doesn't count.

But wait -- why don't those rules apply to this thread?

 

[Ken555]

That course is now offered here on TUG for free.

Let's see: (1) if their lips move, they are probably lying; (2) if it's not in writing, it doesn't count.

But wait -- why don't those rules apply to this thread?

I’ve been wondering that for almost 2000 posts…as I referred to in post #2


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[GregT]

I am going to speculate that there will be no discernible reservations activity/new inventory of Starwood properties at 8 months out (using DC points). I think that when Marriott DC users get access to a Starwood week, it will be 12 months out, when whatever Westin and Sheraton weeks are deposited to the Trust are eligible to reserve, or based upon Marriott's forecasted election of Westin and Sheraton weeks.

The only thing I can see get matched 8 months out is if there is a Waitlist request that was started in Marriott DC system, and I would further speculate the Marriott would only match that waitlist request (pulling from VSN inventory) if it was a brief period after the 8 month window -- giving a modest headstart to VSN owners -- kind of like the preference period within II. 3 days? A week?

I really do believe that Marriott doesn't intend to disenfranchise existing owners and does not intend to use its leverage to cherry pick a desirable inventory week from VSN. I also am jaded and think Marriott doesn't really care if the Waitlist request clears but does care about avoiding a nasty dispute about its stewardship of VSN inventory.

So I don't think they will jump the line at 8 months out. We will see.

Best,

Greg