CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[remowidget]

Since you still own the underlying week, wouldn’t MFs stay the same? I have two enrolled MVC weeks that I can elect DPs for. I still pay MFs based on the week and not the DP rate for these weeks. It would be an incredible deal if you could elect 4950 DPs yet still only pay the Lagunamar MF. Is it a developer-purchased week?

I own developer weeks and the 4950 DPs is what I think I read people saying Lagunamar is going to get. My maintenance fees should stay the same as there is no retro dealio.

The scenario I threw out there is what I would do if I was Marriott, at least from my minimal understanding of Marriott. In this scenario, an owner would no longer own the week. They would only own DCP points. I think Marriott would rather everyone own DC points because if an ownership is sold, they get paid. They get paid for resale or retail. They could simply do what they are already effectively doing for DP resales, charge $3 per point plus fees to do the "retro conversion" to DCP-Points. This would make the price of resales go up, but that would be good for Marriott as well, IMHO. It really looks bad for timeshare companies to sell a product that is sometimes worthless as soon as it is sold. Marriott could be upfront about the whole process, rather than being shady.

 

[remowidget]

We own 3 x EOY-2BR-WLR-PLAT+ which has the lowest MF in the entire VSN-Network.
Has been excellent value. 148.1K-SO exchanged 4-Summers into 12-Nights Harborside [153.1K-SO] and more.
Excellent Trading-Power. Multiple Hawaii-Trips [2/3-WKS-Each] via INTERVAL [Studio/1BR] which resulted in ~$120-$150/Night in a 2BR Maui, Princeville.

If this were to happen, our MF would double overnight.
Hope we have the option to forego the 4950-DP and stay with the 1481.K-SO for ~$1650-MF.

This scenario is for new resale/retro.

I believe that this is not going to happen to retail/already retroed weeks. From what I've read there will either be a smallish fee or free enrolment for weeks that are already enrolled.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Great story @GregT I have an MBA from a top school and people are shocked when I tell them I own resale timeshares and love them.

I compare timeshare success to house flipping. It's not for everyone and many don't succeed. You have to put in the research and effort to make the economics work. But when you do, you are well rewarded. We've taken dream vacations with our resales at a fraction of the cost. I love when I sit in the WKORVN hot tub and talk to Vistana owners who paid full price for Island View. I just smile knowing that we paid much less for Oceanfront!

 

[remowidget]

They cannot legally do that. You own the RTU at Lagunamar and pay MF based on that one resort. If they take your week without your consent and results in your paying higher MF, VAC will be shutdown faster than you can say, wait...what.

It wouldn't be without your consent. You would have to agree to pay up to "retro/enroll" into DCP. The scenario I am suggesting would be a pure fee way of enrolling resale owners, complete profit for MVC. I've never understood why they make you buy something else to get a basically free enrollment as a bogo.

 

[CPNY]

Those Marriott snobs don't care.

Eh I’m becoming a Marriott snob, I can’t lie. I’d rather stay in a Vistana/Marriott unit as a first choice. Although I know there are many many other better resorts out there. I just gravitate toward the MVW brands first.

 

[remowidget]

I thought enrolling a resale week meant being a part of VSN. How can that be taken away once qualified ?

Enrollment wouldn't be taken away for anyone. It would be the new option for weeks that are not enrolled in VSN, or mandatory weeks that want access to DCP. I think it is pretty clear they will no longer be selling Vistana weeks.

 

[VacationForever]

It wouldn't be without your consent. You would have to agree to pay up to "retro/enroll" into DCP. The scenario I am suggesting would be a pure fee way of enrolling resale owners, complete profit for MVC. I've never understood why they make you buy something else to get a basically free enrollment as a bogo.

Then it would not be called retro/enroll but turning in a week for credit to get points at no cost. No, Thank you! But it may work for some owners who acquired their resale week for cheap.

 

[CPNY]

I have been a CFO of companies for last 20 years and it always shocks people when they hear I own timeshares (even more when I tell them how many).

I even have a line “I may be the only person you will ever meet who absolutely loves timeshares”. People really don’t expect it.

Best,

Greg

I feel that I have to defend myself every time I talk about timeshares and how many I have. By the way, I’m heading on my first tradewinds cruise next month, I’m nervous I may sign on the dotted line for a points package. If I love it, I’m buying in! I’ll need your resale guidance

 

[remowidget]

Ah - now I understand what you are saying. I do think they may try this route for a segment. Although I’m not sure how much credit they would want to give you for your owned weeks. They may just want you to continue owning the week you have and then have you buy a minimum of DP. There seems to always be plenty of resale DP for them to recycle as well.

The Lagunamar chart is interesting, particularly as the Flex weeks haven’t increased over the years.I thought they were being pretty aggressive in selling Aventuras as a way to access WLR. Are the numbers in the first column under each year the # of VOIs? It looks like the MF paid by developer are about 68% higher than the Aventuras owners, and those owned by individuals are twice as much. I suspect this may mean there are more 1BR in Aventuras relative to developer and individual owned VOIs.

They wouldn't have to give you anything for your weeks under this scenario. When the integration goes live, they will release how many DCP your week is worth. It's a simple $3 per point plus fees to enroll under this scenario. There would be no more shady BOGO to get you to enroll. I suppose they could do the same thing with BOGO. They could force you to purchase a new ownership to get your ownership moved to DCP.

They sell Aventuras as a way to get into Lagunamar, however that doesn't mean there will be availability to actually book it. For example they screwed up by making January gold season, so it is very popular. I have heard quite a few people complain they couldn't book January with Aventuras at 12 months. Lagunamar is usually available other than very high weeks at 8 months, so they can usually book then as I do.

I think the numbers in the first column are VOIs. I think the reason for the differences in MF is due to the composition of the weeks in each group, but... For example I own lockoffs.

 

[remowidget]

Then it would not be called retro/enroll but turning in a week for credit to get points at no cost. No, Thank you! But it may work for some owners who acquired their resale week for cheap.

I am only talking about resale units that are not enrolled. I'm not saying everyone would do it. Just throwing the scenario out as a possibility. It's what I would do if I was Marriott.

 

[catharsis]

Went to Owners Update:

DC points for each:
WMH - Platinum - 3,150
Princeville - 4,300
SMV - Winter - 3,125
VV - Prime - 2br - 2,950

Was also told:
1. Maui would be 7,450
2. No sales of deeded units or Flex after merger. Only sales of DC points.
3. DC points will cost 15.92/point
4. DC points allocated to current VSE owners are dependent on location, season, and PRICE PAID.
5. No requals or trade in after merger.

Received $150 for attending.

SMV @ 3125 versus Summit Watch@4425, MountainSide@5350 or Timber Lodge in Tahoe@4325 seems VERY low - was the SMV valuation for a 1Bed or a 2Bed?

 

[TravelTime]

Eh I’m becoming a Marriott snob, I can’t lie. I’d rather stay in a Vistana/Marriott unit as a first choice. Although I know there are many many other better resorts out there. I just gravitate toward the MVW brands first.

But why is liking a Marriott better than a different brand snobbish? In general, people are going to like brands that offer a better quality more than a value resort. But Marriott/Vistana are middle of the pack. They might be the higher quality than the average timeshare but they are not fancy.

 

[TravelTime]

I own developer weeks and the 4950 DPs is what I think I read people saying Lagunamar is going to get. My maintenance fees should stay the same as there is no retro dealio.

The scenario I threw out there is what I would do if I was Marriott, at least from my minimal understanding of Marriott. In this scenario, an owner would no longer own the week. They would only own DCP points. I think Marriott would rather everyone own DC points because if an ownership is sold, they get paid. They get paid for resale or retail. They could simply do what they are already effectively doing for DP resales, charge $3 per point plus fees to do the "retro conversion" to DCP-Points. This would make the price of resales go up, but that would be good for Marriott as well, IMHO. It really looks bad for timeshare companies to sell a product that is sometimes worthless as soon as it is sold. Marriott could be upfront about the whole process, rather than being shady.

I would rather buy 1000 DPs to enroll my week for $15K, like I was offered, than pay $3 PP to get 4950 DPs (appox $15K) enrolled. The reason is at least if you buy 1000 DPs for $15K, you are getting 1000 more DPs. In your scenario, you get nothing.

 

[TravelTime]

I feel that I have to defend myself every time I talk about timeshares and how many I have. By the way, I’m heading on my first tradewinds cruise next month, I’m nervous I may sign on the dotted line for a points package. If I love it, I’m buying in! I’ll need your resale guidance

I did a Tradewinds cruise in the Grenadines. It was amazing. You will love it.

 

[ocdb8r]

SMV @ 3125 versus Summit Watch@4425, MountainSide@5350 or Timber Lodge in Tahoe@4325 seems VERY low - was the SMV valuation for a 1Bed or a 2Bed?

Tahoe has a big summer season. I think some might argue Park City summer has higher demand than Avon/Vail.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am only talking about resale units that are not enrolled. I'm not saying everyone would do it. Just throwing the scenario out as a possibility. It's what I would do if I was Marriott.

I would never sign up for either deal. @MICROZE charts on the DP MF cost increases were insightful. No wonder MVC is pushing the addition of DPs to enroll - more people to cover the MF for the expensive mud week resorts that no one wants in the trust. Besides it keeps the inventory off of their books when they ROFR deeds. #shellgame I will stick with deeds only.

 

[CPNY]

But why is liking a Marriott better than a different brand snobbish? In general, people are going to like brands that offer a better quality more than a value resort. But Marriott/Vistana are middle of the pack. They might be the higher quality than the average timeshare but they are not fancy.

They aren’t fancy but they offer cleanliness, quality, and great amenities for the price. It’s a brand recognition and mindset thing. There are probably other resorts that are non brand that are higher quality.

 

[remowidget]

I would rather buy 1000 DPs to enroll my week for $15K, like I was offered, than pay $3 PP to get 4950 DPs (appox $15K) enrolled. The reason is at least if you buy 1000 DPs for $15K, you are getting 1000 more DPs. In your scenario, you get nothing.

I could see it going either way. However, the BOGO method would be a lot more beneficial to owners who have ownerships worth a lot of DP. People with EOY studios, probably would prefer to pay a fee.

 

[TravelTime]

I could see it going either way. However, the BOGO method would be a lot more beneficial to owners who have ownerships worth a lot of DP. People with EOY studios, probably would prefer to pay a fee.

$3 a point to qualify week points without getting any extra destination points seems high especially if the underlying week was expensive. For example, it would cost about $25,000 to qualify a Maui every year week but you would get nothing extra for it. When you include the resale price of about $25,000 and possibly more, that would mean paying approx $50,000 or so all in just to enroll it.

 

[Mroze]

$3 a point to qualify week points without getting any extra destination points seems high especially if the underlying week was expensive. For example, it would cost about $25,000 to qualify a Maui every year week but you would get nothing extra for it. When you include the resale price of about $25,000 and possibly more, that would mean paying approx $50,000 or so all in just to enroll it.

Irrespective of the cost [Purchase-Price + Enroll-Price] to enroll; which is high, I worry about the on-going cost.
I have been of the opinion that MF for a Deeded-Week is always [Hawaii being an exception with High-MF] lower than MF for Points.

The best of both worlds would be to maintain my Deeded VSN-Unit [Lower-MF] and make a decision each year whether to elect DCP.

 

[catharsis]

Second question - If you called into owner services, would they tell you what is available before you elected to convert?

Yes.

 

[kozykritter]

In the annual Sheraton Flex owner survey I recently completed they asked how important would it be to me to be able to rent StarOptions from other owners. From my past experience when a very specific question like that appears on a survey, it usually became a feature of the program a short time later. This would make sense since it's already a feature of MVC.

Assuming it happens, how would it change your approach to everything we are currently dealing with and your plan for your ownership?

My personal plan regardless is to enroll my ownership (two qualified Sheraton Flex contracts) into the DC as soon as they allow it assuming it's free or low cost to do it and then convert the DC points in the years that it makes sense for my travel plans. If they require a purchase to enroll in DC, I will pass (done buying ownership) and continue to rent DC points from owners willing to make reservations for me so I can temporarily expand my timeshare travel in a given year to meet my needs...and will be excited if StarOption renting happens as well!

 

[sharr7]

My personal plan regardless is to enroll my ownership (two qualified Sheraton Flex contracts) into the DC as soon as they allow it assuming it's free or low cost to do it and then convert the DC points in the years that it makes sense for my travel plans. I have zero desire to buy further ownership in any program and that would be encased in cement if I were able to rent both StarOptions and DC points to temporarily expand my timeshare travel in a given year to meet my needs.

Hopefully you didn't put that on the survey lol

 

[dsmrp]

In the annual Sheraton Flex owner survey that I recently completed they asked how important would it be to me to be able to rent StarOptions from other owners. From my past experience when a question like that appears on a survey, it usually became a feature of the program a short time later. This would make sense since it's already a feature of MVC.

Assuming it happens, how would it change your approach to everything we are currently dealing with and your plan for your ownership?

My personal plan regardless is to enroll my ownership (two qualified Sheraton Flex contracts) into the DC as soon as they allow it assuming it's free or low cost to do it and then convert the DC points in the years that it makes sense for my travel plans. I have zero desire to buy further ownership in any program and that would be encased in cement if I were able to rent both StarOptions and DC points to temporarily expand my timeshare travel in a given year to meet my needs.

I'm planning to do the same, enroll if at no/low cost.
Going to stick with star options, except for certain locations where there's only MVC.
Renting star options would be great, however guessing that would be available only to flex owners, not deeded weeks.

 

[kozykritter]

Hopefully you didn't put that on the survey lol

Right? Luckily the question just was rating your level of interest on a scale of 1 to 5 and I chose 5, of course!