CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[jabberwocky]

Well - for starters how about the fact that you need to elect to convert your weeks to points in the prior year (and without knowing you can confirm a reservation)? For someone who comes from the Staroptions world where electing points is an afterthought as you confirm a stay that is less than 8 months way (and that election can be done until Dec 31 of the use year) that's actually a huge change. I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient" but having to elect points 14-15 months before your Staroptions deadline is very different.

How about having to constantly look up points requirements in charts? Points requirements are different for every resort, even ones in the same city (like Orlando), even for ones across the street from each other (like Desert Springs Villas I and II) and can differ for each week of the year. No more remembering a few numbers like 148.100, 81,000 67,100, 95,700, 51,700, 44,000. Again, I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient," but it's very different.

Or even things like having to look up inventory release calendars. Inventory of Friday, Saturday and Sunday being released on the same day. Some inventory being released at 13 months out then some more at 12 months out.

These are things you ultimately get used to (or have to, if you want to get the most out of the system), but people who are used to and like the simplicity of VSN may view them as overly complex.

I’m with you on this. I’ve considered buying MVC resale points several times; however, the pricing and complexity relative to Vistana have dissuaded me each time. I like being able to have a spreadsheet with the standard nightly SO values handy so I can plan things well ahead without having to do a “dummy” booking with the villafinder.

I would just point out that with respect to the election deadline, I believe it is Sept. 30 of the prior year (longer for Presidential and Chairman I believe). This means you can book within Vistana using SO if your stay starts up to the end of May the following year, or with home resort privileges up until the following Sept. 30 before you would have to decide on electing for DP.

 

[VacationForever]

2) will the housekeeping fee go away for making an reservations in excess of your VOIs owned? Not mentioned on the list. Can you make as many reservations as you want with DP (assume the same rule would apply for Vistana owners)?

Unlimited DC reservations with no housekeeping fees - single, 2 nights and for whatever duration.

 

[TravelTime]

Well - for starters how about the fact that you need to elect to convert your weeks to points in the prior year (and without knowing you can confirm a reservation)? For someone who comes from the Staroptions world where electing points is an afterthought as you confirm a stay that is less than 8 months away (and that election can be done until Dec 31 of the use year) that's actually a huge change. I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient" but having to elect points 14-15 months before your Staroptions deadline is very different.

How about having to constantly look up points requirements in charts? Points requirements are different for every resort, even ones in the same city (like Orlando), even for ones across the street from each other (like Desert Springs Villas I and II) and can differ for each week of the year. Not to mention 6-7 view categories at some resorts (Crystal Shores comes to mind). No more remembering a few numbers like 148.100, 81,000 67,100, 95,700, 51,700, 44,000. Again, I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient," but it's very different.

Or even things like having to look up inventory release calendars. Inventory of Friday, Saturday and Sunday being released on the same day. Some inventory being released at 13 months out then some more at 12 months out. Inventory for weeks and points released on different days.

These are things you ultimately get used to (you have to, if you want to get the most out of the system), but people who are used to and like the simplicity of VSN may view them as overly complex.

I can’t remember something about the Vistana program. Don’t we have to do something by June every year?

I just googled it. I am completely confused with all these deadlines. Do we need to elect SOs by July 1st during the home resort use year? If so, how do you use your home resort in that same year if you already elected SOs? I know I did this once but I do not remember what I did.

For Owners - Vacation Life

Make the most out of your ownership. Use Club Points on memorable cruises, hotels and designer homes, and more unforgettable, once-in-a-lifetime events.

www.vistana.com

 

[rcv82]

I can’t remember something about the Vistana program. Don’t we have to do something by June every year?

I just googled it. I am completely confused with all these deadlines. Do we need to elect SOs by July 1st during the home resort use year? If so, how do you use your home resort in that same year if you already elected SOs? I know I did this once but I do not remember what I did.

For Owners - Vacation Life

Make the most out of your ownership. Use Club Points on memorable cruises, hotels and designer homes, and more unforgettable, once-in-a-lifetime events.

www.vistana.com

The only deadline I’m aware of is that if you are not elite and want to bank any StarOptions into the following two years, you have to do it by July 1. The conversion to StarOptions is automatic. Book greater than. 8 months out and it is your home use. Less than 8 months it’s StarOptions. Unless you’re not in VSN. Then it’s always home use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eric B]

I’m with you on this. I’ve considered buying MVC resale points several times; however, the pricing and complexity relative to Vistana have dissuaded me each time. I like being able to have a spreadsheet with the standard nightly SO values handy so I can plan things well ahead without having to do a “dummy” booking with the villafinder.

I would just point out that with respect to the election deadline, I believe it is Sept. 30 of the prior year (longer for Presidential and Chairman I believe). This means you can book within Vistana using SO if your stay starts up to the end of May the following year, or with home resort privileges up until the following Sept. 30 before you would have to decide on electing for DP.

With fixed weeks at WSJ, the home resort reservation can be confirmed at 18 months. That would be before the election deadline for DP even for week 52. I would expect that it’s set up the same way at the other Vistana resorts.

 

[sf49fanv]

Need advice re: authorizing resale Vistana, Marriott Chairman’s Club and Titanium, 13 months out reservation benefit. Looking for TUGgers who authorized resale Vistana weeks, and Marriott Destination Club Point villa owners with two or more weeks to advise and confirm what we were told

Went to our Vistana owner’s update last weekend and was told:

- This will be the last opportunity to authorize resale Vistana units prior to Marriott reservation system merger in May (yeah, whatever)

- New reservation/StarOptions/Marriott Destination Club Point system will address the disconnect between owners who purchased same number of points for different prices, meaning those who purchased 176,700 StarOptions at Maui will have higher priority or take less StarOptions getting a Maui reservation vs someone who purchased 176,700 StarOptions elsewhere, effectively devaluing certain properties. For example, it may take twice the normal Lakeside Terrace StarOptions to get a studio at WKORV at the 8- month point

- If we paid to authorize our 4 WKORV OF we would qualify for 5 star elite and Titanium level now and then after merger Marriott Chairman’s Club; Chairman’s Club will let us make our reservations 13 months out from check-in, 1 month earlier than owners who only own 1 week

We were offered:

- Purchase 1 BR Oceanview WKORV South every other year and authorize our 4 WKORV Oceanfront resales for $25,667 ($10K to authorize first unit, then $5K for each one after)

- 81,000 StarOptions (7 nights in a 1BR at WKORV)

- Makes us 5 star elite

- 1 Million wholesale (Marriott?) points for purchase option (4 certificates of 270K at $1875 each) until Dec 15, 2023; points good for 6 years

Our situation and thought process

- For the last 15 years we had no interest in 5 star elite benefits

o We rarely use Marriott points for stays but sometimes do convert to airline miles

o We always use all our StarOptions to stay in one of our home resorts (WKORV)

o If we don’t use our WKORV weeks, we rent them out

- We got tired of moving every week for 8 weeks at WKORV and could not bring our dog so we bought a condo up the hill from WKORV and will be here 4-6 months a year

- We anticipate renting out all 4 weeks of WKORV

- The 13-month reservation window from potential Chairman’s Club is appealing now to minimize the stress of 7 weeks of making reservations at exactly one year out

- The Float Period waitlist could be useful since our 2 of our fixed weeks are 5 weeks apart and we might want to make the 4 weeks consecutive

- Authorizing all the weeks would make future owner’s updates painless – they could offer nothing we don’t already have

- We don’t think we’ve ever seen this low price to authorize 4 weeks

- We are actually planning trips to Europe, Bora Bora and Maldives where Marriott points (and converting Villa options to points) could be very useful, but then again the best bang for our buck is probably renting out Maui weeks instead of converting to point for other travel

Obviously the above is probably not worth $25K, or is it?

Marriott Ocean Club owners with 2 or more weeks – is it true you get to make your reservations at 13 months out, while those with only 1 week have to wait for 12 months out? We were shown a chart that indicated everyone could already reserve at 13 months out, so it appears our “advantage” would be shared by all owners anyway and therefore not an advantage at all.

Marriott Owners with 2 or more weeks – are you able to make reservations for 2 consecutive weeks in one phone call? We were told that is the case. This would also reduce our stress.

5-star Elites – do we really need any of those benefits if we are just going to rent out our units?

Vistana owners – have you regretted authorizing any of your resale weeks?

I bluffed and said we were not interested, hoping to see if they’d lower the prices, but they just brought us the Encore package instead, so we plunked down the $99 to keep our options open for another few days. Encore package will be 1BR WKORV for $1894 for 6 days (or studio for $1594)

Any advice welcomed. We need to back out of the Encore or make a move by Wed Feb

westin Flex is not the same as deeded at WKORV

westin Flex is not the same as deeded at WKORV

Thanks for correcting me.

 

[emeryjre]

Is there a thread that consolidates the "known" information about the upcoming integration.

At 70 pages, with lots of posts contradicting each other, this thread, while interesting, is not as informative as I think it could be.

Perhaps there is little "known" and I am asking for information that is not available.

Thanks in advance.

 

[sf49fanv]

Is it a Deeded-Week OR is it Westin-Flex?
Can it be both?

You are correct. My mistake. It is Westin Flex.

 

[Mroze]

What does this mean: This will be the last opportunity to authorize resale Vistana units

Strangely this is both TRUE & FALSE.

• TRUE: Once the Full-Launch is rolled out; it will not be possible to enroll Vistana units into the VSN by purchasing Flex as new Flex sales will stop.
  • Economical. Purchase $10K of Flex to qualify 1-Contract, followed by $5K for each additional contract.
• FALSE: There will always be opportunities to enroll Vistana-Resales [as well as Marriott-Resales] into the Marriott Destination-Program by purchasing DP's [todays rate $15.92/Point].
  • Expensive. Purchase 2500-DCP [10%-Discounted: $36K] to qualify 1-Contract. 3500-DCP [15%-Discounted: $48K] for 2-Contracts. 5000-DCP [20%-Discounted: $64K] for 3-7-Contratcs.
  • If sales are to be believed, these prices could rise by 20% post Full-Launch.

Incentives: All of the above retros come with incentives like Bonvoy-Points and/or DCP-Points + Discounts. However, it still nets out to be north of $30K and up to $60K.
Each contract retro'd comes with an additional closing cost of approximately $1K.

 

[TravelTime]

Is there a thread that consolidates the "known" information about the upcoming integration.

At 70 pages, with lots of posts contradicting each other, this thread, while interesting, is not as informative as I think it could be.

Perhaps there is little "known" and I am asking for information that is not available.

Thanks in advance.

I think this thread is it. I think it is mostly rumors and speculation. I have been following this thread and I have not gotten much in the way of facts.

The only thing that could be factual is how many DPs you can get depending on where you own. I believe someone may have summarized this but it might be buried in this thread. I was offered a little over 8300 DPs for my EOY WKOVRN OF 2BR in its home resort use years. The DPs my week was worth were printed on my account summary so it looked legit but who knows.

However, they told me I would need to buy 1000 DPs at $15 pp. No one knows if they will actually offer free or low cost enrollment once they actually launch. I was told no at the presentation but this might not be true since a salesman told me and he did not seem to really know. At first he said it would be free but then he asked his manager and the manager said I needed to buy 1000 DPs.

Do you have specific questions? Maybe you could list your questions and folks could try to answer them?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Wow. Those numbers are eye-popping (including Flex). Flex would almost double what we invested in our OF WKORVN EOY. Although this may make sense for some people with more investment, this makes economically zero sense in our situation.

Unless something changes like free or no cost enrollment, we'll stick with what we have with SOs. $0 incremental investment for up to 2 weeks (Lockoff) in OF Maui. Free is free. Similar to @jabberwocky I would rather spend another $10k toward another EOY resale to get more weeks if I felt compelled to add to our portfolio. But we are happy with what we have at this time.

 

[emeryjre]

I think this thread is it. I think it is mostly rumors and speculation. I have been following this thread and I have not gotten much in the way of facts.

The only thing that could be factual is how many DPs you can get depending on where you own. I believe someone may have summarized this but it might be buried in this thread. I was offered a little over 8300 DPs for my EOY WKOVRN OF 2BR in its home resort use years. The DPs my week was worth was printed on my account summary so it looked legit but who knows.

However, they told me I would need to buy 1000 DPs at $15 pp. No one knows if they will actually offer free or low cost enrollment once they actually launch. I was told no at the presentation but this might not be true since a salesman told me and he did not seem to really know. At first he said it would be free but then he asked his manager and the manager said I needed to buy 1000 DPs.

Do you have specific questions? Maybe you could list your questions and folks could try to answer them?

Thanks for the reply. I will hold off on asking questions until we are past the speculation phase. I have kept up with the posts on this thread, but so many if, and, buts, hard to sort fact from fiction.

 

[TravelTime]

…

 

[Mroze]

Wow. Those numbers are eye-popping (including Flex). Flex would almost double what we invested in our OF WKORVN EOY. Although this may make sense for some people with more investment, this makes economically zero sense in our situation.

Unless something changes like free or no cost enrollment, we'll stick with what we have with SOs. $0 incremental investment for up to 2 weeks (Lockoff) in OF Maui. Free is free. Similar to @jabberwocky I would rather spend another $10k toward another EOY resale to get more weeks if I felt compelled to add to our portfolio. But we are happy with what we have at this time.

Agree that FREE is always the best.

However, here is a scenario that Marriott will have to contend with for future sales.

• Direct-Purchase: EY-2BR WKORV-N [148100-SO]: $100K+
• Ebay-Sale: EY-2BR Harborside [148100-SO]: $1

Both enrolled for FREE within the NEW Marriott-DP System. Both accrue DCP-Points and enjoy the exact same benefits.
How will Marriott convince future buyers [short of them unaware of the amnesty history] to purchase Direct?

Marriott will have to choose between pissing-off

• Loyal Direct-Purchase Owners VS
  • Why did I spend all this money when I could have ...?
• Resale Purchase Owners
  • Why should I give you one more $?

Not sure they can satisfy both.

 

[Eric B]

Agree that FREE is always the best.

However, here is a scenario that Marriott will have to contend with for future sales.

• Direct-Purchase: EY-2BR WKORV-N [148100-SO]: $100K+
• Ebay-Sale: EY-2BR Harborside [148100-SO]: $1

Both enrolled for FREE within the NEW Marriott-DP System. Both accrue DCP-Points and enjoy the exact same benefits.
How will Marriott convince future buyers [short of them unaware of the amnesty history] to purchase Direct?

Marriott will have to choose between pissing-off

• Loyal Direct-Purchase Owners VS
  • Why did I spend all this money when I could have ...?
• Resale Purchase Owners
  • Why should I give you one more $?

Not sure they can satisfy both.

I’m sure they’ve given this a lot of thought. Hopefully it was the same folks that chose to allow enrollment of pre-2010 resale weeks for a reasonable fee, which has evolved to being free for just doing a webinar. If not, I may not need to enroll anything and just continue to use the VSN.

 

[VacationForever]

Thank you. This was helpful. I just read about it on Vistana. I think I see the advantage of Vistana banking over MVC banking. With Vistana, you can bank in the same year of your home resort year by July 1st so you would already know if you can get a home resort reservation. OTOH, with MVC, you need to decide on banking in the previous year. I should know all of this but I do not bank with Vistana anymore.

Not true on MVC. Presidential and Chairman's have up until Aug 31 of current use year to bank, other levels have until June 30.

 

[TravelTime]

Deleted

 

[TravelTime]

Not true on MVC. Presidential and Chairman's have up until Aug 31 of current use year to bank, other levels have until June 30.

Thanks for correcting me on this.

 

[VacationForever]

Thanks for correcting me on this.

You're welcome.

 

[jabberwocky]

Yes, thank you. I was getting confused since many Vistana people on this thread say you need to bank with MVC in the previous year before you select a place to go. I will delete my post since it is inaccurate. I should know all this but I do not pay attention to banking deadlines. I used to be on top of this but not too much anymore. I do not bank with Vistana anymore bc SOs are not effective for me esp owning Maui. I bank well in advance with MVC. I think the complexity that some have mentioned about MVC is not realistic. To me, both systems are the same in complexity.

I think the discussion here has been around electing their Vistana VOI into DP in the prior year, not banking.

Election for deeded week into DP needs to be done prior to the usage year.

Once elected, normal MVC banking rules would apply.

So for your WKORVN week, you would have to elect to use your 2023 week into points by September 30, (unless presidential or chairman).


The DP points would be good for all of 2023; however, you would then have to bank them by June 30, 2023 to get usage beyond 2023 (again, elite levels will impact this).

Given that I usually like to book weeks 51/52, it would be a real risk for me to have to elect by October of the prior year without having any ideas as to whether my desired resorts would be available when I want them. It shouldn’t be a problem if I’m looking at a Spring Break or summer weeks and I can see what availability is like the following year before I have to elect.

 

[TravelTime]

I think the discussion here has been around electing their Vistana VOI into DP in the prior year, not banking.

Election for deeded week into DP needs to be done prior to the usage year.

Once elected, normal MVC banking rules would apply.

So for your WKORVN week, you would have to elect to use your 2023 week into points by September 30, (unless presidential or chairman).


The DP points would be good for all of 2023; however, you would then have to bank them by June 30, 2023 to get usage beyond 2023 (again, elite levels will impact this).

Given that I usually like to book weeks 51/52, it would be a real risk for me to have to elect by October of the prior year without having any ideas as to whether my desired resorts would be available when I want them. It shouldn’t be a problem if I’m looking at a Spring Break or summer weeks and I can see what availability is like the following year before I have to elect.

I know I made an error. I thought I deleted that post since it had an error. I do not ever get week 51/52 using my Vistana week. Do you own a week 51/52?

Maybe this is dumb, but I elect DPs way in advance of deadlines and bank right away too. Someone on TUG’s Marriott board recommended this. I forgot the rationale as to why this makes sense.

 

[jabberwocky]

I know I made an error. I thought I deleted that post since it had an error. I do not ever get week 51/52 using my Vistana week. Do you own a week 51/52?

Not on Maui. Those were sold as event weeks in Vistana so you likely can’t book with SO. I do own a fixed week 51 at SVR in Orlando which starts to float at the 10 month mark.

Maui is our Spring Break and/or summer vacation destination. We now hit Scottsdale and Palm Springs for Christmas/NY since that is closer to family. Given the size of the extended family and variance in incomes, Maui would not be feasible for a proper Christmas/NY get together.

 

[TravelTime]

Not on Maui. Those were sold as event weeks in Vistana so you likely can’t book with SO. I do own a fixed week 51 at SVR in Orlando which starts to float at the 10 month mark.

Maui is our Spring Break and/or summer vacation destination. We now hit Scottsdale and Palm Springs for Christmas/NY since that is closer to family. Given the size of the extended family and variance in incomes, Maui would not be feasible for a proper Christmas/NY get together.

Can you exchange into a week 51 anywhere or just where you own?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Agree that FREE is always the best.

However, here is a scenario that Marriott will have to contend with for future sales.

• Direct-Purchase: EY-2BR WKORV-N [148100-SO]: $100K+
• Ebay-Sale: EY-2BR Harborside [148100-SO]: $1

Both enrolled for FREE within the NEW Marriott-DP System. Both accrue DCP-Points and enjoy the exact same benefits.
How will Marriott convince future buyers [short of them unaware of the amnesty history] to purchase Direct?

Marriott will have to choose between pissing-off

• Loyal Direct-Purchase Owners VS
  • Why did I spend all this money when I could have ...?
• Resale Purchase Owners
  • Why should I give you one more $?

Not sure they can satisfy both.

Your point is well taken. There is nothing that says they must value Harborside the same as WKORV for enrollment.

We own a resale WKORV-N OF. I won't be pissed off if there is large fee for enrolling. We just won't participate in DP.

We will be fine as long as we can book or rent out what we own. That's the bargain with resales - today we don't have access to Bonvoy. In exchange for these limitations, we saved tens of thousands for an incredible resort. However I do expect to be fully able to use the SOs that are part of our mandatory deed and to be able to offer that benefit to my buyers when I exit. MVC DP may be fine without the inventory of resale Maui OF properties.

They won't admit it but all the developers need resale to keep the properties viable and enable owners to exit. They cannot afford to deedback all properties and cover MF if everyone walks. It also makes it hard for new sales / existing owner upgrades to make another sale when there is no market for exit.

 

[Mroze]

I’m sure they’ve given this a lot of thought. Hopefully it was the same folks that chose to allow enrollment of pre-2010 resale weeks for a reasonable fee, which has evolved to being free for just doing a webinar. If not, I may not need to enroll anything and just continue to use the VSN.

Minor differences:

Pre-2010
Marriott did not spend $B to purchase another TS-Company.
Marriott-Owners were at a disadvantage [NO Internal-System to Exchange] and could only Exchange into other Marriott's via an External-System [INTERVAL] competing with Non-Marriott.
Marriott provided its owners with an Internal-Exchange system that was missing to exchange into the EXACT-SAME Marriott's [NO Net-New].

VSN-Purchase
Marriott spent Big $ to purchase VSN.
VSN-Owners have an existing Internal-Exchange system.
VSN-Owners now have the ability to expand their exchange options [Net-New].
Good news, I have an option to continue as-is [not spend $$$ to enroll] and exchange via the existing VSN. Including exchange into Marriott's via Interval.