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CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

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vacationtime1

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Thanks Greg. This is interesting history. Do you think MVC will end up allowing Vistana owners to convert their weeks to DPs for a low entry fee?

I went to a presentation this week. At first the sales person said I could convert my Vistana week into points with no fee. I asked if he was sure and then he asked his supervisor. Then he came back and said I needed to buy 1000 DPs to enroll my week and spend $15,000. They do not know what the rules will be on the new integrated program or whether Chairman level will be enhanced. I sort of wonder if the sales people are just trying to sell points but they have no clue as to what MVC will offer Vistana resale owners esp mandatory owners. I do believe they know the DP point charts and conversion since it was printed on my account. But I wonder if they know what the enrollment plan is.
I wonder the same. But while I am wondering, I am not going to spend $15K based on FOMO.

I also wonder whether this entire "soft launch" thing is so Marriott can learn how much "ouch" Vistana owners will accept to enroll in the DC -- and to then set their pricing accordingly.
 
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TravelTime

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I have been thinking and saying for years that one of Marriott's goals is to introduce more intentional complexity into an already-complex system and make it harder, or at least more complex, to use. A more complex system results in more owners who either do not use it effectively, do not use it at all, or walk away, each of which benefits MVW. They rent out the unreserved weeks and nights (for big bucks, in many cases) and when owners default on their ownerships, the HOAs (i.e. owners, *not* MVW) take the financial hit on any unpaid maintenance fees) and MVW gets a shiny new ownership back into their portfolio, at minimal cost, to resell at full price again.

I think they want to create lots of complicated ways to use our ownerships, so that they can always respond to confused owners with “you should have done x, you could have done y, you should buy more and then you could do z.” But all the while they are happy if many owners throw up their hands and leave their time unreserved.

Now maybe I’m just overly cynical. Obviously MVW does not want empty rooms, because they also profit from guests spending money on site. But they are pretty good at monetizing those empty rooms and filling them, and I suspect they will get even better at that in the future.

All of this is yet another good reason to be here on TUG, as few participants here will be baffled and unable to effectively use what they own. But from what I see in groups on Facebook, for example, MANY owners are confused about the existing Vistana system and throwing another layer on top is just going to confuse them more.

Many Vistana owners say MVC is complicated. I have both and think they are about the same in complexity. What makes you say MVC is complicated? I am referring to MVC DP system since owning an MVC resale week is super simple…use the week or trade on II.
 

TravelTime

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I just saw Jeremy’s video on WKR. I thought the resort would be impressive since he said it was a premium resort and Vistana owners rave about it. In reality, it was pretty ugly and looked more like a hotel than a resort. Am I missing something? Sorry if I am offending WKR owners/lovers. I really just wonder what makes it so great in many people’s opinion.
 

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Curious how many Vistana owners also own DPs in the Marriott system. I read a lot of criticism in this thread so wondering if folks truly know the difference?
 

vacationtime1

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Curious how many Vistana owners also own DPs in the Marriott system. I read a lot of criticism in this thread so wondering if folks truly know the difference?
We used to own Marriott. Two enrolled VOI's -- Waiohai and Kauai Beach Club -- which gave us 8450 DC points annually and "Executive" status.

When we decided to reduce our portfolio a couple of years ago, selecting which units to sell was easy. The Marriotts had smaller suites (compare Waiohai to WKORV, or compare KBC to anything). But worse was the relative price; our 8450 DC points were sufficient to reserve one 2bd OF unit on Maui for a week at an annual cost (MF's and Club fees) of about $4,600/year. Our WKORV-OF unit gets us a (better) 2bd OF unit with MF's and VSE fees of about $2,600/year.

Am I criticizing Marriott? Only relatively. I understand that we are very Hawaii-centric in our use of timeshares. But for our purposes, Vistana was the better value proposition.
 

TravelTime

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We used to own Marriott. Two enrolled VOI's -- Waiohai and Kauai Beach Club -- which gave us 8450 DC points annually and "Executive" status.

When we decided to reduce our portfolio a couple of years ago, selecting which units to sell was easy. The Marriotts had smaller suites (compare Waiohai to WKORV, or compare KBC to anything). But worse was the relative price; our 8450 DC points were sufficient to reserve one 2bd OF unit on Maui for a week at an annual cost (MF's and Club fees) of about $4,600/year. Our WKORV-OF unit gets us a (better) 2bd OF unit with MF's and VSE fees of about $2,600/year.

Am I criticizing Marriott? Only relatively. I understand that we are very Hawaii-centric in our use of timeshares. But for our purposes, Vistana was the better value proposition.

Makes sense. I agree that my WKOVRN 2BR OF is a better deal in terms of MFs than booking Maui with DPs. I like DPs because I can book anywhere in the system. If I want to be Hawaii centric with DPs, there are some good options that are much less expensive than Maui.

I really like the Caribbean options with MVC. I have only been to Ritz St Thomas with MVC in Caribbean but it is my favorite resort in the MVC system. In summer, it is only 3900 points for a 2BR oceanfront view. We booked 15 nights there this June for less than half in points than it costs for 1 week in Maui. We also live in CA, so getting to Hawaii is easy vs the Caribbean. I am from Miami so the Caribbean to me is much nicer than Hawaii.

I am here at Marriott Ko Olina, which to me is the best Hawaii resort, not for the island, but for the views from the suite. However I am noticing so much poverty right now in Oahu. I am wondering if it is due to how Hawaii shut down the economy for 2 years.
 

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Curious how many Vistana owners also own DPs in the Marriott system. I read a lot of criticism in this thread so wondering if folks truly know the difference?
I own MVC DPs and enrolled weeks and Vistana and like both systems. Each system has its strength. If Vistana has the MVC resorts which we enjoy, we would choose Vistana over MVC. I feel that Vistana is more cost effective for many owners when they can use cheaper cost per SO to trade into more expensive properties.
 

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I own MVC DPs and enrolled weeks and Vistana and like both systems. Each system has its strength. If Vistana has the MVC resorts which we enjoy, we would choose Vistana over MVC. I feel that Vistana is more cost effective for many owners when they can use cheaper cost per SO to trade into more expensive properties.

Agreed. Vistana is more cost effective even for Maui. Most of the folks who seem to love Vistana on this thread appear to have purchased SVV or WKR for low MFs to exchange using SOs. I agree both systems have pluses and minuses. I just do not want the Vistana only owners to be blinded to the advantages of MVC without knowing the system.
 

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The skim alone would be enough to forget Marriott's DC for me. When Emmy told me that she couldn't book her one bedroom and studio separately two enjoy two weeks on Maui, I knew that Marriott woudn't be my ideal for Maui. We bought two resale Mandatory Options weeks, two 2 bedroom lockoffs, oceanfront center at the south towers. So happy with that decision.
 

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I just saw Jeremy’s video on WKR. I thought the resort would be impressive since he said it was a premium resort and Vistana owners rave about it. In reality, it was pretty ugly and looked more like a hotel than a resort. Am I missing something? Sorry if I am offending WKR owners/lovers. I really just wonder what makes it so great in many people’s opinion.
I assume you meant Westin Kierland, as we normally use WKV as the abbreviation. The rooms are nicely laid out and well maintained. The grounds are also nice. Its summers are hot so it cannot have the same tropical landscape as Hawaii. It is a 5-min walk to use the golf facility. Golf is the center of our travels and having a golf facility at your door step is nice. Dining out is also huge for us and being right next to Kierland Commons and Scottsdale Quarters, the location cannot be beaten. They have the best shops and fine dining. The wife of our friends who travel with us loves shopping, which keeps her entertained while the 3 of us golf.
 

VacationForever

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The skim alone would be enough to forget Marriott's DC for me. When Emmy told me that she couldn't book her one bedroom and studio separately two enjoy two weeks on Maui, I knew that Marriott woudn't be my ideal for Maui. We bought two resale Mandatory Options weeks, two 2 bedroom lockoffs, oceanfront center at the south towers. So happy with that decision.
If Emmy own a 2br Maui week, she can absolutely book as 2 weeks, as a 1br and a studio. She would book as weeks as opposed to electing DC conversion for that year. I don't generally elect conversion as I prefer to book weeks as weeks.
 

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I assume you meant Westin Kierland, as we normally use WKV as the abbreviation. The rooms are nicely laid out and well maintained. The grounds are also nice. Its summers are hot so it cannot have the same tropical landscape as Hawaii. It is a 5-min walk to use the golf facility. Golf is the center of our travels and having a golf facility at your door step is nice. Dining out is also huge for us and being right next to Kierland Commons and Scottsdale Quarters, the location cannot be beaten. They have the best shops and fine dining. The wife of our friends who travel with us loves shopping, which keeps her entertained while the 3 of us golf.

I totally get that people love golf and the winters in the desert resorts are great for that. Just from looking, it appears that the Marriott Palm Desert resorts are really nice. How do those compare to Kierland for the 2 BRs?

We own in 2 golf resorts in CA and live in one and we do not golf! I just like the views. LOL
 

VacationForever

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I totally get that people love golf and the winters in the desert resorts are great for that. Just from looking, it appears that the Marriott Palm Desert resorts are really nice. How do those compare to Kierland for the 2 BRs?

We own in 2 golf resorts in CA and live in one and we do not golf! I just like the views. LOL
WKV commands high rental price because of March Spring Training.

Our preferred travel period is just after Thanksgiving and again in January where both Palm Desert and Scottsdale are 10 degrees warmer than where we live. Our preference is Palm Desert because you can play at a nice course for $80 to $130 per round. When we were in Palm Desert in Jan this year we play 11 rounds for each of us in 21 days. We got to play at our friends' beautiful course at Toscana Country Club for one of those rounds. Scottsdale golf is more expensive.

To answer your question, Marriott has 2 different properties in Desert Springs, I and II with different floor plans. MVC also has Shadow Ridge Villages and Enclaves. We have stayed at all 4 MVC properties, Westin Mission Hills and Westin Desert Willow. WKV feels a little more upscale than these 6 properties. We would rate 1) Desert Springs Villas I 2) Desert Springs II 3) Mission Hills 4) Desert Willow 5) Shadow Ridge Villages 6) Shadow Ridge Enclaves. Villa size and floor plan dictate much of our ranking. When we stay at Desert Springs I, it always feels like "home". Large living area with a beautiful fireplace. It is 1700 to 1800 sq ft. If you travel with friends, the studio is totally private as a foyer divides the 2 units. The studio has both a walk-in shower and a separate bathtub. It is not suitable for those travelling with young children. Like you, we have never stayed in a studio and we have also never stayed in the small 1Br in the Vistana system. Large rooms and walk-in showers are very important to us.
 

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We can expect all we want but it might not happen that way. Time will tell.
Perhaps, but we have seen printed material from Marriott/Vistana that indicates which fees will go away.
 

dioxide45

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I totally get that people love golf and the winters in the desert resorts are great for that. Just from looking, it appears that the Marriott Palm Desert resorts are really nice. How do those compare to Kierland for the 2 BRs?

We own in 2 golf resorts in CA and live in one and we do not golf! I just like the views. LOL
From a resort perspective, DSV1 feels more like a condo complex. Nothing spectacular. Nice rooms but the resort grounds are really the pools. There isn't anything overly special about the pools. Just pools. The pool towels are the standard thin garbage Marriott tries to dole out. DSV2 is about the same, but the feature pool is nicer than the main pool at DSV1. DSV1 and DSV2 share the same checkin, nothing special about the lobby.

WKV is just a step above. Pools are pools I guess, but they do have a 24 hour relaxation pool. What resort has a 24 hour pool? The vibe is just much more relaxed and the lobby is fantastic at WKV. The pool towels are not the thin garbage Marriott tries to pass off. Pool chairs are cushioned at the Westin where Marriott pool loungers are not. In the end, every resort is pretty much the same. A room, pools, lobby and grounds. They all just look a little different.
 

mjm1

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From a resort perspective, DSV1 feels more like a condo complex. Nothing spectacular. Nice rooms but the resort grounds are really the pools. There isn't anything overly special about the pools. Just pools. The pool towels are the standard thin garbage Marriott tries to dole out. DSV2 is about the same, but the feature pool is nicer than the main pool at DSV1. DSV1 and DSV2 share the same checkin, nothing special about the lobby.

WKV is just a step above. Pools are pools I guess, but they do have a 24 hour relaxation pool. What resort has a 24 hour pool? The vibe is just much more relaxed and the lobby is fantastic at WKV. The pool towels are not the thin garbage Marriott tries to pass off. Pool chairs are cushioned at the Westin where Marriott pool loungers are not. In the end, every resort is pretty much the same. A room, pools, lobby and grounds. They all just look a little different.

We own both WKV and DSV1, and I have to agree. We love both resorts, but there is just a nicer feeling at WKV. It’s funny, we bought WKV resale primarily to trade to Hawaii, St John and Harborside, all of which we have done, but really love going to WKV as well.

We just went to a sales presentation today and learned that the WKV Premium 1BR (the larger side of the 2BR lock off, 81k SO’s) will be valued at 2,600 DC points in the combined program. That’s a decent value, but we think our best usage will be at WKV or the SVN system.

Best regards.

Mike
 

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We own both WKV and DSV1, and I have to agree. We love both resorts, but there is just a nicer feeling at WKV. It’s funny, we bought WKV resale primarily to trade to Hawaii, St John and Harborside, all of which we have done, but really love going to WKV as well.

We just went to a sales presentation today and learned that the WKV Premium 1BR (the larger side of the 2BR lock off, 81k SO’s) will be valued at 2,600 DC points in the combined program. That’s a decent value, but we think our best usage will be at WKV or the SVN system.

Best regards.

Mike

2600 for 1 bedroom is good
 

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Just out of curiosity, how much did you pay for 122K SOs? I assume this is annual. Is that correct?

WKORV nor WKORVN were sold this way - I assume these may be Westin Flex purchased at WKORV/N.
Or something like a 1Bd annual and 1Bd EOY at the south resort which equals 121.5K SOs (?).

Don’t ask me how… LOL


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dioxide45

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The materials did not define what is an internal exchange for VSN. That was the point of my post.
I get it, but I am also going by history of what Marriott offered when they allowed Marriott owners to enroll their weeks into the DC program. An internal exchange defined then was Marriott to Marriott. Now for exchange fee purposes it is Marriott to Marriott or Marriott to Vistana.. I see no reason it wouldn't bee Vistana to Vistana or Vistana to Marriott. This isn't speculation but more an educated guess.
1650769455209.png
 

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Many Vistana owners say MVC is complicated. I have both and think they are about the same in complexity. What makes you say MVC is complicated? I am referring to MVC DP system since owning an MVC resale week is super simple…use the week or trade on II.

Well - for starters how about the fact that you need to elect to convert your weeks to points in the prior year (and without knowing you can confirm a reservation)? For someone who comes from the Staroptions world where electing points is an afterthought as you confirm a stay that is less than 8 months away (and that election can be done until Dec 31 of the use year) that's actually a huge change. I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient" but having to elect points 14-15 months before your Staroptions deadline is very different.

How about having to constantly look up points requirements in charts? Points requirements are different for every resort, even ones in the same city (like Orlando), even for ones across the street from each other (like Desert Springs Villas I and II) and can differ for each week of the year. Not to mention 6-7 view categories at some resorts (Crystal Shores comes to mind). No more remembering a few numbers like 148.100, 81,000 67,100, 95,700, 51,700, 44,000. Again, I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient," but it's very different.

Or even things like having to look up inventory release calendars. Inventory of Friday, Saturday and Sunday being released on the same day. Some inventory being released at 13 months out then some more at 12 months out. Inventory for weeks and points released on different days.

These are things you ultimately get used to (you have to, if you want to get the most out of the system), but people who are used to and like the simplicity of VSN may view them as overly complex.
 
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jabberwocky

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I get it, but I am also going by history of what Marriott offered when they allowed Marriott owners to enroll their weeks into the DC program. An internal exchange defined then was Marriott to Marriott. Now for exchange fee purposes it is Marriott to Marriott or Marriott to Vistana.. I see no reason it wouldn't bee Vistana to Vistana or Vistana to Marriott. This isn't speculation but more an educated guess.
View attachment 52830
So two things I’m wondering about:

1) if the new program is launched in May/June/July (or whatever), does the new fee structure start immediately, or is it only after January 1st, 2023 since the fees are technically for next year? Just trying to decide how long I should wait to bank my SO for this year - but it would be nice to not pay the $89 to bank.

2) will the housekeeping fee go away for making an reservations in excess of your VOIs owned? Not mentioned on the list. Can you make as many reservations as you want with DP (assume the same rule would apply for Vistana owners)?
 

Ken555

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Well - for starters how about the fact that you need to elect to convert your weeks to points in the prior year (and without knowing you can confirm a reservation)? For someone who comes from the Staroptions world where electing points is an afterthought as you confirm a stay that is less than 8 months way (and that election can be done until Dec 31 of the use year) that's actually a huge change. I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient" but having to elect points 14-15 months before your Staroptions deadline is very different.

How about having to constantly look up points requirements in charts? Points requirements are different for every resort, even ones in the same city (like Orlando), even for ones across the street from each other (like Desert Springs Villas I and II) and can differ for each week of the year. No more remembering a few numbers like 148.100, 81,000 67,100, 95,700, 51,700, 44,000. Again, I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient," but it's very different.

Or even things like having to look up inventory release calendars. Inventory of Friday, Saturday and Sunday being released on the same day. Some inventory being released at 13 months out then some more at 12 months out.

These are things you ultimately get used to (or have to, if you want to get the most out of the system), but people who are used to and like the simplicity of VSN may view them as overly complex.

IIRC, @TravelTime has stated that she doesn’t use SO and when she has tried she hasn’t seen availability. I’m not sure how experienced she is with using SOs… tho it does sound like she’s familiar with and likes the DP network. This may be just a case of liking what one knows. @TravelTime, if I am mischaracterizing you in any way, I apologize and please clarify. It’s just good to know perspective.


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Well - for starters how about the fact that you need to elect to convert your weeks to points in the prior year (and without knowing you can confirm a reservation)? For someone who comes from the Staroptions world where electing points is an afterthought as you confirm a stay that is less than 8 months away (and that election can be done until Dec 31 of the use year) that's actually a huge change. I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient" but having to elect points 14-15 months before your Staroptions deadline is very different.

How about having to constantly look up points requirements in charts? Points requirements are different for every resort, even ones in the same city (like Orlando), even for ones across the street from each other (like Desert Springs Villas I and II) and can differ for each week of the year. Not to mention 6-7 view categories in some resorts (Crystal Shores comes to mind). No more remembering a few numbers like 148.100, 81,000 67,100, 95,700, 51,700, 44,000. Again, I don't know if I call it "complicated" or "inconvenient," but it's very different.

Or even things like having to look up inventory release calendars. Inventory of Friday, Saturday and Sunday being released on the same day. Some inventory being released at 13 months out then some more at 12 months out.

These are things you ultimately get used to (or have to, if you want to get the most out of the system), but people who are used to and like the simplicity of VSN may view them as overly complex.

Very well said. Heck, I still have to look up every single time to figure when the booking opens up for 13 months and 12 months for both points and weeks reservations because they are all different, and then also calculate how many points are needed and I have been doing it for several years. I can never remember.
 
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