CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[TravelTime]

I have been a long time loyalist (hotel) of Westin and Marriott when I was travelling for business, I have always liked both equally, and that extends to timeshare. I don't think one is better than the other. Marriott is certainly more aggressive for its shareholders and bottom line.

I used to like Intercontinental hotels a lot. I liked their loyalty program. It was easy to get and use points. Many of their hotels are high end. I stayed in one in Cozumel and we got an oceanfront walkout room which was one of the nicest rooms in Cozumel, to me. I stayed at the Intercontinental/Presidente in Cancun and they gave me a room with balcony in their loyalty program section and it is on the best beach in Cancun. I also stayed in the Intercontinental in Chicago and it was very nice. Now, I only stay at Marriott owned hotels. Marriott has my loyalty now due to having Titanium status.

 

[pchung6]

As long time SPG royal member, I’ve noticed Marriott doesn’t really have the soft touches as SPG. Probably because Marriott is heavier bottom line driven vs SPG. The Westin hotel I stayed frequently for work, they used to know me very well. Since the merger, they no longer cared and I noticed much higher employees turnover. I’ve gradually moving my stay to Hilton, IHG and another Asian hotel chain. I’m just 2 more years away from Marriott lifetime platinum. I found my titanium tier is really useless, no upgrade in last 4 years for 80 business stays. I have to ask to access to lounge every time and they no longer offer me free beer/alcohol. I will most likely switch my business to competitors after that.

 

[travelhacker]

As long time SPG royal member, I’ve noticed Marriott doesn’t really have the soft touches as SPG. Probably because Marriott is heavier bottom line driven vs SPG. The Westin hotel I stayed frequently for work, they used to know me very well. Since the merger, they no longer cared and I noticed much higher employees turnover. I’ve gradually moving my stay to Hilton, IHG and another Asian hotel chain. I’m just 2 more years away from Marriott lifetime platinum. I found my titanium tier is really useless, no upgrade in last 4 years for 80 business stays. I have to ask to access to lounge every time and they no longer offer me free beer/alcohol. I will most likely switch my business to competitors after that.

Off topic, but it came up.

This is insane. It’s definitely time to move your stays to a brand that values you.

I have explorist status with Hyatt (the equivalent of gold in bonvoy), and I get best room available and never have to ask. I’ve also been upgraded to suites even though explorist status isn’t eligible for suite upgrades. I also only earn about 20 nights a year.

Heck they upgraded me to a suite that cost $1000 more per night on an award stay.

Hyatt isn’t perfect, but I am almost certain you can do better than Marriott.

 

[GregT]

View attachment 50383

This is a very interesting point chart -- I apologize if I'm repeating an observation already made in this thread, but I've not been keeping up with it as much as I historically would have.

When comparing it to the points chart for Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina and Napili Villas, there is approximately a 10% premium in points required to book the Westin than to book the Marriott. I do not know if that is indicative of Marriott's view that Westin's are better than Marriott's, or Marriott's desire to give more points to Westin owners to entice them to redeem their weeks to book in the Marriott system. If this pattern holds with other properties, then a Westin-based DC point is a little more powerful than a Marriott-based DC point. The WKORV owner gets 8,325 points (I think) for their 2BR OF, whereas the MOC-L/N owner only gets 7,650, so the premium is 9% in Westin-based DC points for a fabulous 2BR OF unit. Interesting.

Like Dioxide, I think inventory availability will remain pretty good in VSN for years to come. There were the same concerns about II trading drying up when DC was introduced but I believe the II trading experience continues to be acceptable even to this day. Uptrades are much harder to secure, but like-for-like still appears achievable.

I am looking forward to an actual announcement so that we can confirm some of these things!

Best,

Greg

 

[GregT]

View attachment 50389View attachment 50390

For the other Phoenix properties, WKV has a 30% premium over Marriott Canyon Villas in the prime season (Feb/Mar), but Canyon Villas has a 30% premium over SDO. Looks like Marriott doesn't want to encourage the Sheraton properties to be in the system. Will be curious to see how the Palm Springs area properties compare.

Interesting.

Best,

Greg

 

[byeloe]

For the other Phoenix properties, WKV has a 30% premium over Marriott Canyon Villas in the prime season (Feb/Mar), but Canyon Villas has a 30% premium over SDO. Looks like Marriott doesn't want to encourage the Sheraton properties to be in the system. Will be curious to see how the Palm Springs area properties compare.

Interesting.

Best,

Greg

I think the numbers are what is required to book those properties. The amount of points that you receive when you elect is less and not widely published at the moment. I think 2bd plat WKV gets around 4050 and WLR around 4950

 

[CPNY]

What is a self proclaimed Marriott snob? I own both a mandatory Vistana and MVC weeks and points. I paid to qualify my MVC resale weeks because I like the DP program. I would like the integration to allow me to elect DPs. Does that make me a snob?

It’s what a Marriott sales rep told me once. “You know Marriott owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs because we have the best resorts”. That was her sales pitch. So I’ve been running with that ever since.

 

[daviator]

It’s what a Marriott sales rep told me once. “You know Marriott owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs because we have the best resorts”. That was her sales pitch. So I’ve been running with that ever since.

And I think most of the Marriotts are tacky and at least one step below the Westins. So to each his own!

You can keep your faux-pineapple lamps, etc. in the Hawaii properties, lol..

 

[CPNY]

And I think most of the Marriotts are tacky and at least one step below the Westins. So to each his own!

You can keep your faux-pineapple lamps, etc. in the Hawaii properties, lol..

Hah that’s hilarious, agreed

 

[dioxide45]

And I think most of the Marriotts are tacky and at least one step below the Westins. So to each his own!

You can keep your faux-pineapple lamps, etc. in the Hawaii properties, lol..

I think Marriott has stepped up the decor in recent years with their more recent renovations. They do seem to be making an effort to make their villa product more consistent across resorts. Westin villas are very nice and the bathrooms are top notch. The kitchens however have a lot to be desired. Their provided cooking supplies and cooking utensils is just pitiful. Why no Rubbermaid containers for leftovers? Marriott outfits their kitchens much better IMO. To each their own I suppose. I will gladly stay in either...

 

[kozykritter]

I appreciate all the granite and contemporary touches where they have added them. Where MVC lets me down is with their studio units, the main size that I reserve. Vistana units regardless of size have a kitchen you can cook in and in-unit laundry, making them feel like a condo. MVC studios have no in-unit laundry and just a microwave and mini fridge like millions of hotel rooms across the country. While passable, it could be so much better.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think Marriott has stepped up the decor in recent years with their more recent renovations. They do seem to be making an effort to make their villa product more consistent across resorts. Westin villas are very nice and the bathrooms are top notch. The kitchens however have a lot to be desired. Their provided cooking supplies and cooking utensils is just pitiful. Why no Rubbermaid containers for leftovers? Marriott outfits their kitchens much better IMO. To each their own I suppose. I will gladly stay in either...

Me too, but when it comes to buying Maui, I will go with Westin, but not until I see some website improvement. I do love Westins on Maui, every one of them.

 

[dioxide45]

I appreciate all the granite and contemporary touches where they have added them. Where MVC lets me down is with their studio units, the main size that I reserve. Vistana units regardless of size have a kitchen you can cook in and in-unit laundry, making them feel like a condo. MVC studios have no in-unit laundry and just a microwave and mini fridge like millions of hotel rooms across the country. While passable, it could be so much better.

I agree, the Marriott studios are by far inferior to the smallest units at Westin or Sheraton properties.

 

[grgs]

Vistana units regardless of size have a kitchen you can cook in and in-unit laundry, making them feel like a condo. MVC studios have no in-unit laundry and just a microwave and mini fridge like millions of hotel rooms across the country. While passable, it could be so much better.

I agree. This is one of the main reasons we choose Vistana over Marriott way back when. Even the Lagunamar studio has a W/D in the unit.

 

[grgs]

Based on the sheets that have been shown owners at presentations during this "soft launch" period, can we start collecting in one place what the DP allocation is per resort/unit/week? Or, do we feel it's too soon to do that? Even if these numbers aren't firm, it might be interesting to see if they change once the "hard launch" goes into effect.

The ones that I have noted are:

WKV, 2 bedroom, Plat +: 4050
WLR, 2 bedroom, Plat +: 4950

If someone knows what the proposed allocation is for WKV, 1 bedroom premium, Plat +, SDO, 2 bedroom & 1 bedroom premium (both Plat +), please let me know.

Thanks!

Glorian

 

[pchung6]

Let me start to compile what we know so far about the SO/DC ratio:

WKV 2br Plat+: 36.57 = 148100/4050
WLR 2br Plat+: 29.1 = 148100/4950
WKORVN OF 2br Plat+: 21.22 = 176700/8325
SVV 2br Plat: 30.86 = 81000/2625

Can someone please confirm above are correct?

 

[TravelTime]

It’s what a Marriott sales rep told me once. “You know Marriott owners pride themselves on being Marriott snobs because we have the best resorts”. That was her sales pitch. So I’ve been running with that ever since.

Instead of criticizing others, what I do is be proud of what I have.

 

[GregT]

Let me start to compile what we know so far about the SO/DC ratio:

WKV 2br Plat+: 36.57 = 148100/4050
WLR 2br Plat+: 29.1 = 148100/4950
WKORVN OF 2br Plat+: 21.22 = 176700/8325
SVV 2br Plat: 30.86 = 81000/2625

Can someone please confirm above are correct?

I think this is a great idea -- we did something similar in Marriott world to try and figure out what the property points values were when the DC was announced and we constructed the attached. It would be terrific if a similar thing was built for the Starwood properties. The 5th column is what is key (the DC points), there is alot of data to the right that is now obsolete....

Best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

I think this is a great idea -- we did something similar in Marriott world to try and figure out what the property points values were when the DC was announced and we constructed the attached. It would be terrific if a similar thing was built for the Starwood properties. The 5th column is what is key (the DC points), there is alot of data to the right that is now obsolete....

Best,

Greg

From the ROFR database I also have a list of every possible villa type that was sold by Vistana. We just need to start plugging in the DC point values once we know them. I will see if I can convert it to a Google Sheet to be able share and update.

 

[regatta333]

Got the following from our sales rep at Kierland. I am surprised that the conversion rates are different based on unit size.

 

[Lansdowne]

"- Our WKORVN OF week is worth 8325 points. ..."

Interesting. Our 3-Bedroom oceanview/front at KoOlina is only worth 6550 DPs. Unfortunately, you can barely get a 2-bedroom in Maui, without a kitchen, for that amount of DPs! If they are going to give 8325 Club/Destination points for a WKORVN 2-Bedroom oceanfront, that is a decent exchange rate. As your post indicates, you cannot get back into WKORV for that amount (8200 to 11475), except for very off seasons. The same is true for our KoOlina property (DPs needed range from 6475-9175). I guess they have to offer this much to try and get Westin Kaanapali/Nanea owners to elect Club/Destination points instead of staying at their home resort! Otherwise, there will be no additional Hawaii inventory available on points which was, I believe, their primary goal in acquiring the Westin/Sheraton/Vistana timeshares...

View attachment 50383
[/QUOTE]

 

[kozykritter]

Got the following from our sales rep at Kierland. I am surprised that the conversion rates are different based on unit size.

That part of the bottom is also weird pertaining to elite levels conversions. Why would they list 3* also under presidential and chairman?

 

[divenski]

Otherwise, there will be no additional Hawaii inventory available on points which was, I believe, their primary goal in acquiring the Westin/Sheraton/Vistana timeshares...

But there is still Flex and ongoing ROFR, even though that will take time. And some owners will elect for points, even if only occasionally. In the near term though, MVC gets to include most of the Westin properties as part of the DC and that makes for a more compelling sales pitch even if it is mostly on paper.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Its going to take more than just points to get people to deposit their high end week. I wouldn't mind trading our WKORVN OF with Ko Olina OF or Kauai or Newport on occasion, however without knowing inventory availability in DP when depositing, and only being able to trade at 12 mos. vs. 13 as a non-elite, I am inclined not to risk it and would stick with trading SOs during the use year, or rent + cash.

This is also really complicated. To compare, with the SO (and HGV) systems, there is no depositing your week in advance of the use year, Your week is worth a certain amount of points and if you see availability for a stay in your resort or another resort upon the opening for the trading window- you simply book it. No skim in SO or HGV systems either. Very simple.

I wouldn't pay for additional DP points for the opportunity to enroll our unit given the complexity and risk of trades. If we could pass the DP trading ability onto reseller buyers, we might reconsider. Of course YMMV there are likely use cases where this makes sense, but not for us from what I can see thus far.

 

[Eric B]

That part of the bottom is also weird pertaining to elite levels conversions. Why would they list 3* also under presidential and chairman?

My interpretation would be that if you are 3* with enough points you could be presidential or chairman based on the points, but will be executive regardless; similarly 4* could be chairman based on points but will be no less than presidential. We’ll see for sure when the actual announcement comes out.