[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[Yellowfin]

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[csodjd]

If I could answer that question, I'd be selling my consulting services to all 50 states and making a mint! I could buy an OF condo at Kaanapali Alii and quarantine til my heart's content.

China could do it because they are a totalitarian state with a compliant population. I don't know how you do that consistently in a democracy.

I read that in India where there are residential areas with exponentially more density than even New York City, they were actually pushing people to go to work and stay, even sleep at work, to reduce the spread in these dense residential areas. Different solutions are needed everywhere.

I saw quite a few ER and critical care physicians staying in hotels and not going home between shifts in NY and some other places simply to keep their family safe knowing the risk they had of getting it.

 

[lynne]

I know that everyone has an opinion and many of you are critics on our governor and continuing to quarantine both returning residents and visitors for 14 days, however there are many other states that are also supporting quarantines. Please stop beating up on the state's government for trying to keep it's population safe. I know quite a few people who are furloughed from resorts and they stated that if they were called back to work right now, they would not go in. They have at risk family members and consider health more important than finances.

States are reopening, but many still require travelers to self-quarantine. Here's where

States are slowly beginning to open back up, but that doesn't mean travelers are free to come and go as they please in most places amid the

www.statesman.com

 

[cman]

I know that everyone has an opinion and many of you are critics on our governor and continuing to quarantine both returning residents and visitors for 14 days, however there are many other states that are also supporting quarantines. Please stop beating up on the state's government for trying to keep it's population safe. I know quite a few people who are furloughed from resorts and they stated that if they were called back to work right now, they would not go in. They have at risk family members and consider health more important than finances.

At one time I counted 29 states that had 14 day quarantine requirements for out of state travelers. Texas and Florida were among them. I've yet to see a single post criticizing the quarantine restrictions of these other states, but there are multiple threads commenting on the decisions that the state of Hawaii have made. You're from Hawaii, so you know the deal. If not, I'll break it down for you. The people, that live in other states, value "their" vacation more than they value the health and safety of Hawaiian citizens. It's just as simple as that. What's best for Hawaiians is for Hawaiians to decide. Y'all let me know what you come up with, and I'll proceed accordingly.

 

[PigsDad]

The people, that live in other states, value "their" vacation more than they value the health and safety of Hawaiian citizens. It's just as simple as that.

I don't have a dog in this race (no plans to visit Hawaii anytime soon), but it seems a bit pretentious of you to state that you know what other people value, don't you think?

Kurt

 

[cman]

I don't have a dog in this race (no plans to visit Hawaii anytime soon), but it seems a bit pretentious of you to state that you know what other people value, don't you think?

Kurt

Not trying to be pretentious. It's just an observation. Looking at the posts criticizing the actions that Hawaii has taken, almost all of them take on the, "my vacation is going to be interrupted" tone. I have yet to see a single post, that prioritizes the health and safety of Hawaiians. Not a single one. Everybody is focused on "their" vacation. Frankly, I find it kind of annoying. I'm from Texas, decisions we make are our decisions. We could care less what another state thinks, and would politely invite you out of a discussion that involved a decision that we thought were in our best interests.

The citizens of Hawaii are the ones that should decide the path forward. I'm just a tourist and I'll abide by any decision the people and government come up with. But, as someone who doesn't reside in the state, I'm not going to trash the government or the decisions that they make because "my" vacation has to be rescheduled. So, if you take a careful look at the posts criticizing the governments actions, you'll see a constant theme of descriptions of how it impacted "their" travel plans. The health and safety of the residents tends to be an afterthought, if mentioned at all.

 

[Ken555]

Not trying to be pretentious. It's just an observation. Looking at the posts criticizing the actions that Hawaii has taken, almost all of them take on the, "my vacation is going to be interrupted" tone. I have yet to see a single post, that prioritizes the health and safety of Hawaiians. Not a single one. Everybody is focused on "their" vacation. Frankly, I find it kind of annoying. I'm from Texas, decisions we make are our decisions. We could care less what another state thinks, and would politely invite you out of a discussion that involved a decision that we thought were in our best interests.

The citizens of Hawaii are the ones that should decide the path forward. I'm just a tourist and I'll abide by any decision the people and government come up with. But, as someone who doesn't reside in the state, I'm not going to trash the government or the decisions that they make because "my" vacation has to be rescheduled. So, if you take a careful look at the posts criticizing the governments actions, you'll see a constant theme of descriptions of how it impacted "their" travel plans. The health and safety of the residents tends to be an afterthought, if mentioned at all.

I agree. Though to be fair, some of those same posts also are concerned about the Hawaiian economy...and that to improve the economy they should allow tourists in asap...


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[cman]

I agree. Though to be fair, some of those same posts also are concerned about the Hawaiian economy...and that to improve the economy they should allow tourists in asap...


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Concern for the economy may not be the top priority for most Hawaiians. Health and safety appears to trump that.

 

[Ken555]

Concern for the economy may not be the top priority for most Hawaiians. Health and safety appears to trump that.

That's exactly correct (and what I posted in other threads). Health and safety *should* be first, in any civilized society (must I really state "in my opinion" here?).

 

[Tamaradarann]

Concern for the economy may not be the top priority for most Hawaiians. Health and safety appears to trump that.

I don't know if there has been a survey of Hawaiian residents to support that Health and Safety trumps the economy; there are certainly some Hawaiian Residents who need tourists for their business or jobs to be viaable. However, certainly your statement is supported by the actions of the Governor who is elected by the Hawaiian residents.

I think that Lieutenant Governor Green is supporting Coronavirus testing before boarding a plane and a 14 day quaratine if no certification of negative for the Coronavirus. The 14 day quarantine must have more stingent enforcement to prevent violations. Perhaps GPS tracking.
Also the Coronavirus test must be pretty reliable.

I don't know if those percautions would be supported by the majoring of Hawaiian Residents as the criteria for opening up to tourists. If a survey is done of Hawaiian Residents these questions must be included to provide information for where Hawaii goes from here.

 

[csodjd]

Looking at the posts criticizing the actions that Hawaii has taken, almost all of them take on the, "my vacation is going to be interrupted" tone. I have yet to see a single post, that prioritizes the health and safety of Hawaiians. Not a single one.

I disagree. I have posted that Hawaii needs to find the balance of ensuring control of the virus on the islands, and protecting the economy. My criticism has NOT been the actions they have taken, it has been the pace and lack of information being provided. I think the Governor has done a good job of protecting his constituents but a poor job at transparency and information. Here in California the Governor gives a press conference on COVID every day, and answers questions from reporters. Often he says things like, we are looking at it but we just don't know yet because....

For instance, we NOW (finally) know that Hawaii will continue to quarantine through the end of July. But they've said nothing about what comes next. Maybe it's because they don't know yet. In the UK they have a quarantine in place and have said they will reevaluate it every 3 weeks. What has Hawaii said? Nothing. We don't know if they (i) will open August 1, (ii) will not open August 1, or (iii) will be examining things and will decide in early July (or pick a time) if they will extend it or not. We should not have to GUESS. If they have not decided, that's all they need to say. If they can say what they will consider and approximately when we can expect their next decision, great.

Do I have a vacation planned? Yes. Late Oct and into Nov. All I'd like to know is about WHEN I will know if that's likely to happen or not. I'm not asking for the yes/no now. It's too early. But it would be very comforting, if nothing more, to know that I should know one way or the other by [pick a date].

 

[Yellowfin]

Let's not judge anyone's motives. I assume that the governor has good intentions but probably so has the lt. governor, yet they have a very different point of view on this.

Hawaii seems to attract more attention that other states but it would help both residents and tourists to have clear goals. The governor keeps on saying things like "I know we cannot keep the islands closed for 12 months". What does that mean? One month, 3, 11 months? Nobody seems to know but it is clear that they will open the islands before it is completely "safe" and Covid is gone. He also said that he knows the number of cases is going to go up even before they open. As a matter of fact it is going up now without the tourists. There goes the "we want to be stay safe and we do not want any risk" argument. So what is left is his hesitance in dealing with the details. One thing that kills a business is the incertitude and many need 45 days to reopen. They also need some clarity if they need credit from the banks that is not part of the federal plan. If Hawaii wants to reopen as of August 1st, the deadline to announce is June 17th. If they do not to open they should just say so.


Maybe Hawaii attracts more attention because more people depend on it. I read that 50% of the small businesses may stay closed or may open and still go bankrupt in the next 12 months. We are talking about a lot of families that will be destroyed but the governor is acting now when we know the mortality rate is 0.4% like 3 months ago when we though it was 6-8%. The state has had a lot of time to prepare for a potential increase of patients. We also know now that the ventilators may do more harm than good so they do not need 40,000 ventilators, God forbid.

 

[bnoble]

I'm still amazed at how many people who do not live or have business interests there have such strong opinions about what their government ought to be doing.

 

[controller1]

I'm still amazed at how many people who do not live or have business interests there have such strong opinions about what their government ought to be doing.

However, many of them own property in Hawaii and pay property taxes and support payments of wages through their timeshare ownership and the payment of their maintenance fees.

 

[bnoble]

However, many of them own property in Hawaii and pay property taxes and support payments of wages through their timeshare ownership and the payment of their maintenance fees.

I know! It might actually come to four figures per year!

(Yes, that was sarcasm.)

The vast majority of this thread is a bunch of people upset that they can't (or might not be able to) go on a vacation they've already paid for because the Hawaii government is taking a more conservative position than many others. Couching it in a concern for the people and economic well-being of Hawaii is a bunch of hooey, nothing more.

 

[Yellowfin]

I know! It might actually come to four figures per year!

(Yes, that was sarcasm.)

The vast majority of this thread is a bunch of people upset that they can't (or might not be able to) go on a vacation they've already paid for because the Hawaii government is taking a more conservative position than many others. Couching it in a concern for the people and economic well-being of Hawaii is a bunch of hooey, nothing more.

And a bunch of people are upset that a bunch of people are upset. If a developer increases the fees by 25 dollars the hell would break loose and any comment is fair game, right?
With Hawaii, it is different though and people should not comment unless their gain/loss is above X amount of dollars, you just have to tell us the amount so that we know the rules going forward.

 

[turkel]

I guess I need to re-trade my late August-early July weeks on Maui. I was hoping to wait, but I don't want to be stuck with weeks that are going to subject to II's ridiculous replacement certificates. They are the worst. I wanted to go to Maui, but I am switching to Palm Beach. Rick will die with that heat.

I just E-plus out of a August 15-22 Maui week. So sad. But this was from a replacement week from May in Maui. I added E-Plus when I made the new reservation 2 more trades to go!

 

[bnoble]

If a developer increases the fees by 25 dollars the hell would break loose and any comment is fair game, right?

To be honest, those people annoy me too. Even so, there is an obvious difference between a company seeking to maximize profits at my expense, and a government seeking to protect its citizens at my expense.

If you can't see that, I can't help you, but welcome to my ignore list in the meantime.

 

[Yellowfin]

To be honest, those people annoy me too. Even so, there is an obvious difference between a company seeking to maximize profits at my expense, and a government seeking to protect its citizens at my expense.

If you can't see that, I can't help you, but welcome to my ignore list in the meantime.

It is not that Hawaii will not open because they will eventually. It is how they do it and the lack of transparency.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I know! It might actually come to four figures per year!

(Yes, that was sarcasm.)

The vast majority of this thread is a bunch of people upset that they can't (or might not be able to) go on a vacation they've already paid for because the Hawaii government is taking a more conservative position than many others. Couching it in a concern for the people and economic well-being of Hawaii is a bunch of hooey, nothing more.

My fees to Wyndham points (Bali Hai and Shearwater) and Hono Koa are in the five-figure range. We pay $6000 per year for 3 weeks at Hono Koa alone. But we stayed at Hono Koa this year, and we have reservations for next February. So hoping we can go next year.

Hawaii is going to run out of stimulus money, so I assume they will open to save jobs. Losses of jobs means starving children. The Hawaiians struggle already with high grocery prices.

 

[cman]

I don't know if there has been a survey of Hawaiian residents to support that Health and Safety trumps the economy;

Here's one that was taken last month;

Civil Beat-HNN poll: Despite partisan divide, support for COVID-19 orders is broad

In the survey, participants were asked what was more important to them — stopping COVID-19 in Hawaii or stopping the spiral of Hawaii’s economy.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[turkel]

I would imagine the population is a lot more than 1533 but what do I know.

Here's one that was taken last month;

Civil Beat-HNN poll: Despite partisan divide, support for COVID-19 orders is broad

In the survey, participants were asked what was more important to them — stopping COVID-19 in Hawaii or stopping the spiral of Hawaii’s economy.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

View attachment 22113

 

[PigsDad]

I would imagine the population is a lot more than 1533 but what do I know.

Do you understand how polls work? With a sample size of 1500, and a reasonably random sampling, that should result in a good confidence poll.

Right now, everyone who is unemployed is receiving an extra $600/week. Many of those people are making much more on unemployment than when they were working, so the results are no surprise. I'd like to see how that poll would change if they were told the extra $$ were ending next week.

Kurt

 

[DeniseM]

You know, I could probably condense this whole thread down to just 10 points. Many of you just keep posting the same old thing over and over.

1) I'm mad because Hawaii is closed and I don't get to go on vacation - how dare they!
2) The whole thing is a big conspiracy - there is no Coronavirus danger.
3) I'm going to use this thread to promote all of my Coronavirus Socially Contentious beliefs + a few about the demonstrations.
4) Let's discuss a lot of random science that is unproven and most of us don't understand.
5) Let's make this an us vs. the Hawaiian people thing.
6) Let's predict dire consequences for Hawaii if they don't let me go on vacation - starving children!
7) Let's complain, because Hawaii has not made it crystal clear exactly what they are going to do, and I want to know NOW, dammit!
8) Let's get mad at the moderator because she won't let us post this junk in the other thread - we don't need no stinkin' facts!
9) Let's complain about our maintenance fees - why can't Hawaii see that it OWES me big time!
10) I can't even think of 10.



ALSO - Thank you for staying in the one thread - I do actually appreciate that!

 

[Yellowfin]

Here's one that was taken last month;

Civil Beat-HNN poll: Despite partisan divide, support for COVID-19 orders is broad

In the survey, participants were asked what was more important to them — stopping COVID-19 in Hawaii or stopping the spiral of Hawaii’s economy.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

View attachment 22113

This poll was actually taken almost a month ago when people thought the fatality rate was 10 times more than it is believed to be now. But, as we already know, the question actually leads to a false choice, the virus has not been and will not be stopped as we can see from the current increase of new cases.

The question should be:
"Should we keep the measures in place indefinitely and possibly (but not guaranteed) have a lower number of Covid cases (for a longer period of time) but cause great financial distress to 25% of Hawaiians and expect a number of social services to be cut, furloughs and a significant increase in taxes?