[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So what I am hearing you both saying is if white, upper-middle class men aren’t dying, but could be asymptomatically infecting lots of non-white, poorer people, who are much more likely to die, then why should the white, middle-class people care?

That is honestly how I am hearing you both. The issue with this virus is that individual choices affect waaaay more people than that individual. And it saddens me that so few seem to understand that, and are willing to act and make policy choices accordingly.


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I think I hear what you are saying and I think I understand what you are saying. I have heard many people expressing similar thoughts. In reflection of my post upthread, I also think that you projecting into other people's statements rather than seeking to understand what other people are saying.

 

[csodjd]

In the final analysis, just staying home was never going to be a long term solution. It bought us time, but eventually, whether now or a few months from now, we all have to learn to model the behaviors needed to function while protecting ourselves and others. That is the only sustainable solution that will allow us to live our life while we wait for a vaccine or the virus to run its course.

I think this really is the reality. It's time to figure out how to live WITH COVID, because that's they way it's going to be for a while.

I strongly supported the strong response out of the box (albeit coming a few weeks later than I'd have preferred) because we knew nothing about our enemy. But that was months ago. We know more now. We CAN effectively prevent most infection and most community spread by pretty basic steps. Gotta come out from under the rock. I'm fortunate and there is essentially 100% compliance in my community from what I've seen. Not a single person in a market, Costco, store, gas station, etc., not wearing a mask. Every line is spaced out. Etc. And we learn more almost daily. Here is a fascinating small study, https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...19-using-low-doses-of-radiation/#3d8387b7dc69 that if it bears out in further testing could truly be a game changer.

 

[chellej]

I think this really is the reality. It's time to figure out how to live WITH COVID, because that's they way it's going to be for a while.

I strongly supported the strong response out of the box (albeit coming a few weeks later than I'd have preferred) because we knew nothing about our enemy. But that was months ago. We know more now. We CAN effectively prevent most infection and most community spread by pretty basic steps. Gotta come out from under the rock. I'm fortunate and there is essentially 100% compliance in my community from what I've seen. Not a single person in a market, Costco, store, gas station, etc., not wearing a mask. Every line is spaced out. Etc. And we learn more almost daily. Here is a fascinating small study, https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...19-using-low-doses-of-radiation/#3d8387b7dc69 that if it bears out in further testing could truly be a game changer.

I do not think the characterization of "low-dose" is an appropriate description.....maybe compared to cancer therapy but not typical dose to the general public or even occupational levels. They state a 1.5 Gy dose while that sounds low but just for comparison annual occupational dose limit would be .05 Gy( actually Sv would be the appropriate unit but since we are talking xray they are equivalent). One view of a spine using film would be .004 Gy..digital would be much lower.
In a life or death situation it may be justified but the characterization of "low dose" is bothersome to me

 

[csodjd]

I do not think the characterization of "low-dose" is an appropriate description.....maybe compared to cancer therapy but not typical dose to the general public or even occupational levels. They state a 1.5 Gy dose while that sounds low but just for comparison annual occupational dose limit would be .05 Gy( actually Sv would be the appropriate unit but since we are talking xray they are equivalent). One view of a spine using film would be .004 Gy..digital would be much lower.
In a life or death situation it may be justified but the characterization of "low dose" is bothersome to me

If it saves you from a respirator and at least a 50% chance of dying, I don't really care all that much about the dose. Fire away.

 

[chellej]

If it saves you from a respirator and at least a 50% chance of dying, I don't really care all that much about the dose. Fire away.

csodjd

I agree everyone has to determine their own level of acceptable risk....I just feel they should not describe this as low dose because it is not. I have worked as a Health Physicist for over 40 years and the public paranoia of anything related to radiation is high...I spend a lot of time explaining to people that dental xrays are fine ( thank you Dr OZ). It may be the best answer for some....but I do think the medical community has a skewed perspective sometimes on risk vs benefit and the overall health of the patient needs to be considered. And don't get me wrong...I believe that generally speaking that medical use of radiation the benefit outweighs the risks

 

[csodjd]

csodjd

I agree everyone has to determine their own level of acceptable risk....I just feel they should not describe this as low dose because it is not. I have worked as a Health Physicist for over 40 years and the public paranoia of anything related to radiation is high...I spend a lot of time explaining to people that dental xrays are fine ( thank you Dr OZ). It may be the best answer for some....but I do think the medical community has a skewed perspective sometimes on risk vs benefit and the overall health of the patient needs to be considered. And don't get me wrong...I believe that generally speaking that medical use of radiation the benefit outweighs the risks

And, of course, given the danger of radiation is a cumulative one, use on an 80 yo presents less long-term risk or concern than use on a 40 year old. The bigger point, however, is the possible existence of an effective treatment for preventing the life-threatening stages of COVID-19.

 

[amycurl]

I saw very little in those few posts about other people; the words I read were about individual choices and an individual assessment of individual risk. And I provided feedback about how those statements impacted me, regardless of intent. Now, in both responses to my comment, there was more discussion of the impact of those individual choices on other people, so I appreciate that you both elaborated further.

I am saddened with the "we will need to learn to live with it" response beacause so many, many people (how many tens or hundreds of thousands more?) won't be living with it, and those that won't be living with it are primarly poor and BIPOC. And you're right, we do know so much more about the virus and how to counteract its spread than we did three months ago. In the words of Maya Angelo, when you know better, you should do better. And, yet, so many individuals and policy makers, both of whom should now know better, *aren't* doing better. I am glad to hear that both of you are taking those precautions on behalf of both yourself *and* other people, and that you are seeing most of the people in Southern CA doing better, a place that has also implemented policy guidelines to enforce some of that behavior. My state has not--no mandatory mask wearing--and behavioral compliance is not nearly as high. Since this thread is about the decision of policy makers in Hawaii to try and limit the overall death rate while trying to figure out how they are going to "do better," I thought it was a pertinent point.

 

[csodjd]

I am saddened with the "we will need to learn to live with it" response beacause so many, many people (how many tens or hundreds of thousands more?) won't be living with it, and those that won't be living with it are primarly poor and BIPOC.

Yes, that is certainly unfortunate. Nonetheless, there's no clear timeline for having either a treatment or vaccine, only hope. Thus, we WILL have to learn to live with it, and that means some will catch it and have a bad outcome. Fortunately, our knowledge of this illness allows for much better targeting of virus avoidance for the most at risk among us. As an example of progress, I have a client that just had an employee report that she wasn't feeling well, got tested, and was positive. She worked in close quarters with a number of others in the office. All have been tested and all are negative, but are in a 14 day quarantine out of caution anyway. They at all times wore face protection and practiced regular hand washing and sanitizing (as you'd hope for in a doctors office), and it appears that was effective in preventing the spread.

But, yes, many individuals choose to disregard, choose to buy into conspiracy theories, etc., and others simply choose to try and survive financially and hope for the best. Our remedy with irresponsible politicians, of course, is easy. Vote them out.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

An excerpt from an email message I sent recently to a close friend on the topic ....

Ultimately, control is not achieved until herd immunity is attained. Herd immunity is achieved via some combination of vaccination and acquired immunity. The only issue is how we reach that point.

Sheltering-in-place is realistic only for the elites of this world (and that includes us). In much of the world, turning off the economy for six months means people starve to death or die of other causes, in numbers greater than what will occur if the virus simply runs rampant.

They are probably not going to be saved by vaccinations, because those are not likely to be available soon enough. Given the current timing for the virus, the more likely outcome is that those countries might provide the populations that will serve as guinea pigs during testing of the vaccines. But for the most part, those countries will attain herd immunity via attrition and natural selection – those who attain immunity via surviving the infection, aided and abetted by any genetic dispositions favoring survival.

The upshot I see is that over the next four to six months the Third World is going to get ravaged. Deaths will pile up, the health care systems will be rendered useless, and bodies will be rotting in the streets. They will not have flattened the curve. But those countries will emerge on the other of the other side of the pandemic sooner than other parts of the world.

 

[Yellowfin]

Referring to opening the Trans-Pacific travel (no quarantine for those with negative tests), Ige said that August is more realistic but if they can get it done in July they will do it.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=285831682826254

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Referring to opening the Trans-Pacific travel (no quarantine for those with negative tests), Ige said that August is more realistic but if they can get it done in July they will do it.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=285831682826254

Thanks for sharing the link to the press conference. The targeted date of August is promising. That makes me feel a bit more confident that our fall trip may actually happen,

I think most of the other information discussed had been previously discussed in one forum or another. I am curious how the travel bubble concept will be implemented. Will travel be restricted to people within these bubbles? Or will all travel be allowed with a test prior entry, but people within the bubble avoid the testing requirements.

Obviously only allowing travel within the established bubbles is probably the safest from a health perspective,. However sticking to just the bubbles may limit the tourists so much that that they limit the economic gains from opening back up.

 

[Yellowfin]

Thanks for sharing the link to the press conference. The targeted date of August is promising. That makes me feel a bit more confident that our fall trip may actually happen,

I think most of the other information discussed had been previously discussed in one forum or another. I am curious how the travel bubble concept will be implemented. Will travel be restricted to people within these bubbles? Or will all travel be allowed with a test prior entry, but people within the bubble avoid the testing requirements.

Obviously only allowing travel within the established bubbles is probably the safest from a health perspective,. However sticking to just the bubbles may limit the tourists so much that that they limit the economic gains from opening back up.

to my surprise, there was no follow up question about that statement and it was not reported in the media (as far as I could tell)

 

[BagsArePacked]

You know, I could probably condense this whole thread down to just 10 points. Many of you just keep posting the same old thing over and over.

1) I'm mad because Hawaii is closed and I don't get to go on vacation - how dare they!
2) The whole thing is a big conspiracy - there is no Coronavirus danger.
3) I'm going to use this thread to promote all of my Coronavirus Socially Contentious beliefs + a few about the demonstrations.
4) Let's discuss a lot of random science that is unproven and most of us don't understand.
5) Let's make this an us vs. the Hawaiian people thing.
6) Let's predict dire consequences for Hawaii if they don't let me go on vacation - starving children!
7) Let's complain, because Hawaii has not made it crystal clear exactly what they are going to do, and I want to know NOW, dammit!
8) Let's get mad at the moderator because she won't let us post this junk in the other thread - we don't need no stinkin' facts!
9) Let's complain about our maintenance fees - why can't Hawaii see that it OWES me big time!
10) I can't even think of 10.



ALSO - Thank you for staying in the one thread - I do actually appreciate that!

Well that about sums it up and if you missed any of it, it's because she cleaned it up.


ROFLMAO! Bravo Denise. Aloha. ;-)

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[JoshuaTree]

Hopefully that time will be used to develop and begin implementing a thorough plan for opening up Aug 1. Perhaps providing an update by the end of June.

Reserved for November. I’m hopeful...my wife is not!

 

[csodjd]

Reserved for November. I’m hopeful...my wife is not!

I'm reserved late Oct - Nov 9 for 9 days in Waikiki and 7 in Maui. Cautiously optimistic. That's a lot of time for them to figure out how to bring American's in safely.

 

[Yellowfin]

ROFLMAO! Bravo Denise. Aloha. ;-)

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Denise can do better than that

 

[toddvb20]

to my surprise, there was no follow up question about that statement and it was not reported in the media (as far as I could tell)

I did not listen to the whole interview. When they said August did they mean August 1?

Thanks!

 

[wannagotoo]

I so appreciate this discussion. Thank you for the information, the facts and opinions that were presented, the absence of impertinent emotional statements or angry/rude responses that are usually presented when facts are not available.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I did not listen to the whole interview. When they said August did they mean August 1?

Thanks!

They didn't specify a particular day, and would probably claim success if its August 30th....

 

[Tamaradarann]

I did not listen to the whole interview. When they said August did they mean August 1?

Thanks!

Well I just looked at the HGVC website for reservations for the Hilton Hawaiian Village, which is the largest resort complex in Hawaii, and they have now moved back the first day that you can book to August 1. So perhaps they either know something we don't know about the day that the 14 day quarantine will be lifted or they are guessing and hoping like we are that August, means August 1.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I'm reserved late Oct - Nov 9 for 9 days in Waikiki and 7 in Maui. Cautiously optimistic. That's a lot of time for them to figure out how to bring American's in safely.

We are also booked at the Hilton Hawaiian Village during that period. We usually stay in the Lagoon Tower but have decided to book the Grand Islander. As you know the elevator situation in the Lagoon Tower is usually horrendous without the coronavirus. Also, we usually stay for a long stay and want to have a washer and dryer in the room so that we don't need to mix with others in the Laundry Room.

 

[csodjd]

We are also booked at the Hilton Hawaiian Village during that period. We usually stay in the Lagoon Tower but have decided to book the Grand Islander. As you know the elevator situation in the Lagoon Tower is usually horrendous without the coronavirus. Also, we usually stay for a long stay and want to have a washer and dryer in the room so that we don't need to mix with others in the Laundry Room.

We’re actually splitting it... we’ve not stayed in the GI before so we’re staying there for a few days before going over to our OF room in Lagoon Tower, elevators notwithstanding.

 

[Tamaradarann]

We’re actually splitting it... we’ve not stayed in the GI before so we’re staying there for a few days before going over to our OF room in Lagoon Tower, elevators notwithstanding.

We have stayed at all the resorts in Oahu before, but the Lagoon Tower Studios give us the best long stay for our points so that is where we usually stay. The coronavirus has made us rethink our accomodations. Also, we are not interested in a very long stay any longer in Waikiki since we have the condo we are just interested in a place to stay for a few weeks while we get some things done in the condo and get somethings for the condo to make living there comfortable for us.

 

[csodjd]

We have stayed at all the resorts in Oahu before, but the Lagoon Tower Studios give us the best long stay for our points so that is where we usually stay. The coronavirus has made us rethink our accomodations. Also, we are not interested in a very long stay any longer in Waikiki since we have the condo we are just interested in a place to stay for a few weeks while we get some things done in the condo and get somethings for the condo to make living there comfortable for us.

With three dogs (one 11-wk old Golden Retriever puppy), a cat, and a teenager... long stays aren't in the cards for us.

 

[yeereid]

We are scheduled to be in Kauai Nov 5-12 and are crossing our fingers that the trip is a go without having to quaratine. I've been in touch with Shearwater to possibly change our check in to next Spring since we are owners and there are plenty of options still available in good penthouse units, but as of now, we are hopeful to just keep our plans for Nov. Haven't bought airfare yet, but will likely do FC for both comfort and less passengers in that cabin. We are not afraid to travel though; headed to Vegas this weekend and we've heard that it is pretty quiet.