[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[rickandcindy23]

Oh, yes, I think Hawaii should just stay closed through the rest of the year and continue to take a lot of federal assistance so Hawaiians do not starve. That's better than people going back to work, apparently. A huge number of Hawaiians depend on tourism.

I have never seen such an overreaction to a virus in my entire life as we have done with this one. Polio didn't shut down schools and affected children and adults alike. No one stayed home and people didn't stop shaking hands. This is unbelievable. And that is not a political statement. It seems to be both sides of the aisle that share this paranoia.

 

[Luanne]

Oh, yes, I think Hawaii should just stay closed through the rest of the year and continue to take a lot of federal assistance so Hawaiians do not starve. That's better than people going back to work, apparently. A huge number of Hawaiians depend on tourism.

I have never seen such an overreaction to a virus in my entire life as we have done with this one. Polio didn't shut down schools and affected children and adults alike. No one stayed home and people didn't stop shaking hands. This is unbelievable. And that is not a political statement. It seems to be both sides of the aisle that share this paranoia.

Never mind.

 

[BagsArePacked]

Oh, yes, I think Hawaii should just stay closed through the rest of the year and continue to take a lot of federal assistance so Hawaiians do not starve. That's better than people going back to work, apparently. A huge number of Hawaiians depend on tourism.

I have never seen such an overreaction to a virus in my entire life as we have done with this one. Polio didn't shut down schools and affected children and adults alike. No one stayed home and people didn't stop shaking hands. This is unbelievable. And that is not a political statement. It seems to be both sides of the aisle that share this paranoia.

You are not the only person experiencing inconvenience or loss.

Therapy may be needed for the "It's all about me" syndrome exhibited throughout the many whines. Good luck.

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[1Kflyerguy]

Hmm, the guidelines for Anchorage say you do curbside pickup or meal delivery but can't eat at a restaurant until passing the in state test. That may prove to be pretty restrictive to most Hawaii travelers. If its truly no indoor/outdoor dining, bars etc, just takeout then that kind of different vacation for many. Probably works better for timeshare guests than hotel guests...

Regardless i am looking forward to seeing the actual plan for Hawaii.

 

[csodjd]

Hmm, the guidelines for Anchorage say you do curbside pickup or meal delivery but can't eat at a restaurant until passing the in state test. That may prove to be pretty restrictive to most Hawaii travelers. If its truly no indoor/outdoor dining, bars etc, just takeout then that kind of different vacation for many. Probably works better for timeshare guests than hotel guests...

Regardless i am looking forward to seeing the actual plan for Hawaii.

My guess is that there is a LOT more outdoor dining in Hawaii than in Anchorage. And the "Alaska" allows for outdoor, just not indoor. But getting that second test upon arrival would still be the best bet so that you have results in 2-3 days and you're good to go.

 

["Roger"]

The worst year for Polio was 1952. There were about 56,000 reported cases. By way of comparison, there were about 30,000 confirmed cases of coVid-19 in the Unites States just today. It will take two days to surpass the worst year for Polio. Admittedly many, but by no means all, people recover from coVid-19 without lifelong problems, but there have been about 122,000 deaths from coVid-19 in the US to date and it is only June. All of this would be much worse if at least a good portion of people weren't taking defensive steps.

We can argue about what should be done, but don't minimize the seriousness of the current outbreak. It is not just another virus.

 

[Yellowfin]

Oh, yes, I think Hawaii should just stay closed through the rest of the year and continue to take a lot of federal assistance so Hawaiians do not starve. That's better than people going back to work, apparently. A huge number of Hawaiians depend on tourism.

I have never seen such an overreaction to a virus in my entire life as we have done with this one. Polio didn't shut down schools and affected children and adults alike. No one stayed home and people didn't stop shaking hands. This is unbelievable. And that is not a political statement. It seems to be both sides of the aisle that share this paranoia.

The worst year for Polio was 1952. There were about 56,000 reported cases. By way of comparison, there were about 30,000 confirmed cases of coVid-19 in the Unites States just today. It will take two days to surpass the worst year for Polio. Admittedly many, but by no means all, people recover from coVid-19 without lifelong problems, but there have been about 122,000 deaths from coVid-19 in the US to date and it is only June. All of this would be much worse if at least a good portion of people weren't taking defensive steps.

We can argue about what should be done, but don't minimize the seriousness of the current outbreak. It is not just another virus.

The way they count, it may be more accurate to say deaths with Covid rather than deaths from Covid

 

[Ken555]

The way they count, it may be more accurate to say deaths with Covid rather than deaths from Covid

And the true death totals won’t be known for a long time, if ever.


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[csodjd]

And the true death totals won’t be known for a long time, if ever.


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If one examines the death data on flu and pneumonia you'll see that it is largely a mathematical estimate and not a count. There is much ambiguity in cause of death in many of these cases. For the poster that asserts that the totals only reflect those that die "with" COVID as opposed to "from" COVID, I'd say that's a fairly naive statement, or perhaps a political one. If somebody with asymptomatic COVID is walking across the street and is hit by a car and killed, that's not recorded as a COVID death. THAT would be dying "with" and not "from" COVID.

But when someone has symptomatic COVID with O2 levels of 78% and is in the ICU, has a stroke, and dies, that is dying "from" COVID -- even though it is, of course, POSSIBLE that the person just had a coincidental stroke that would have happened anyway and it was a "stroke" that was the immediate cause of death. But it is far more likely that the stroke was brought on by COVID. In the same way, the flu doesn't kill anyone -- it causes things that kills people (usually pneumonia).

 

[Yellowfin]

If one examines the death data on flu and pneumonia you'll see that it is largely a mathematical estimate and not a count. There is much ambiguity in cause of death in many of these cases. For the poster that asserts that the totals only reflect those that die "with" COVID as opposed to "from" COVID, I'd say that's a fairly naive statement, or perhaps a political one. If somebody with asymptomatic COVID is walking across the street and is hit by a car and killed, that's not recorded as a COVID death. THAT would be dying "with" and not "from" COVID.

But when someone has symptomatic COVID with O2 levels of 78% and is in the ICU, has a stroke, and dies, that is dying "from" COVID -- even though it is, of course, POSSIBLE that the person just had a coincidental stroke that would have happened anyway and it was a "stroke" that was the immediate cause of death. But it is far more likely that the stroke was brought on by COVID. In the same way, the flu doesn't kill anyone -- it causes things that kills people (usually pneumonia).

Few weeks ago one of my best friend's father died in the hospital at the age of 103. Among others, he had severe respiratory problems. He tested negative for Covid.
Does anyone doubt that had he tested positive, the cause of death would have been recorded as C-19? I do not.

 

[MommaBear]

¿I guess Alaska and Hawaii are close? ¿Similar Travel Restrictions?

They are generally close on US maps, it's a surprise the weather is so different...

 

[MommaBear]

The way they count, it may be more accurate to say deaths with Covid rather than deaths from Covid

The way death certificates are written is that the first line is what killed the person that day, the subsequent lines are contributing factors. So, if you have cancer, diabetes, heart disease but are living with it day to day, then you get Covid and die, the Covid is listed as the first reason, because it is what caused you to die today. So, technically, you die from Covid 19. If you have Covid 19 but die in an MVA, your death certificate should read "blunt force trauma in an MVA", Covid is secondary

 

[DavidnRobin]

If one examines the death data on flu and pneumonia you'll see that it is largely a mathematical estimate and not a count. There is much ambiguity in cause of death in many of these cases. For the poster that asserts that the totals only reflect those that die "with" COVID as opposed to "from" COVID, I'd say that's a fairly naive statement, or perhaps a political one. If somebody with asymptomatic COVID is walking across the street and is hit by a car and killed, that's not recorded as a COVID death. THAT would be dying "with" and not "from" COVID.

But when someone has symptomatic COVID with O2 levels of 78% and is in the ICU, has a stroke, and dies, that is dying "from" COVID -- even though it is, of course, POSSIBLE that the person just had a coincidental stroke that would have happened anyway and it was a "stroke" that was the immediate cause of death. But it is far more likely that the stroke was brought on by COVID. In the same way, the flu doesn't kill anyone -- it causes things that kills people (usually pneumonia).

It’s called big data...
Epidemiologists and Statisticians will be able to evaluate death records (non-accident) and then compare to past deaths rates during similar time periods to estimate deaths due to C-19. In the long run - it is about death rates - as well as morbidity (there is more morbidly with CV compared to influenzas or other other pneumatic illnesses).


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[geist1223]

How do the last 10 or so Posts have anything to do with the Thread Title? I am so confused. Do not understand why people torso far off topic. Why not just start a new thread? It is not hard to do.

 

[Luanne]

How do the last 10 or so Posts have anything to do with the Thread Title? I am so confused. Do not understand why people torso far off topic. Why not just start a new thread? It is not hard to do.

You've been on this site for how long now? It's very easy for us to get off track.

 

[geist1223]

You've been on this site for how long now? It's very easy for us to get off track.

One can only hope. I decide to read a Thread based upon its Title. Then I have to wade through all the nonrelevant trash. Even worse when there are appropriate Threads for folks to post their comments.

 

[Luanne]

One can only hope.

Sometimes, or maybe many times, when I see a thread I haven't looked at the title, or how it started and I'm just responding to the last post. Or even if I have read the earlier posts I get excited about the turns and twists it's taken. And sometimes, I'm the one that takes it off track.

 

[csodjd]

Few weeks ago one of my best friend's father died in the hospital at the age of 103. Among others, he had severe respiratory problems. He tested negative for Covid.
Does anyone doubt that had he tested positive, the cause of death would have been recorded as C-19? I do not.

So I guess then that the suggestion is since we'd all die of something if not COVID, COVID isn't the proximate cause of anyone dying? How long does someone with COVID that died have to have been expected to live before COVID would be the cause of death?

The fact is, irrespective of age and comorbidities, if COVID was the "immediate" (proximate) cause of the death or was the agent that started the cascade of events leading to death, the contributing factors are not germane. The individual died today, now, because of COVID.

 

[csodjd]

How do the last 10 or so Posts have anything to do with the Thread Title? I am so confused. Do not understand why people torso far off topic. Why not just start a new thread? It is not hard to do.

It's called normal human conversation. It flows. Naturally. It is UNnatural to say, oh, I have a response or want to respond to that post, but I'll go somewhere else to post my response. Indeed, if you want to be strict and unnatural, your post complaining about the posts being "off topic" should itself have been in another Thread, shouldn't it?

 

[csodjd]

One can only hope. I decide to read a Thread based upon its Title. Then I have to wade through all the nonrelevant trash. Even worse when there are appropriate Threads for folks to post their comments.

There are almost 800 posts in this thread. If you thought you'd start at post 1 and when you arrived at 790 there would be no off-topic posts and post 790 would be just as on-topic as post 1, and every post in between would also be spot on and exactly and only what you expected, I think you've set a bar that's unattainable in human conversation. But, that's just my off-topic opinion.

 

[Kapolei]

Things are great here right now. Governor to make announcements soon.

 

[geist1223]

Lock it up.

 

[Kapolei]

So I guess then that the suggestion is since we'd all die of something if not COVID, COVID isn't the proximate cause of anyone dying? How long does someone with COVID that died have to have been expected to live before COVID would be the cause of death?

The fact is, irrespective of age and comorbidities, if COVID was the "immediate" (proximate) cause of the death or was the agent that started the cascade of events leading to death, the contributing factors are not germane. The individual died today, now, because of COVID.

If I push a log in a river and the log is the straw that breaks the beaver dam, am I responsible for the beavers being homeless?

 

[amy241]

Justice Department urges Gov. David Ige to lift out-of-state quarantine | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

The U.S. Department of Justice is the newest powerful interest pressuring Gov. David Ige to reopen Hawaii’s out-of-state tourism.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[Yellowfin]

It is official, as of August 1st no quarantine for those that have a negative C19 test. Details to follow. Governor Ige said he knows the number of cases will go up but they are better prepared now.