[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[csodjd]

Still getting on an airplane in August to Maui, if Hawaii will permit us to go 8/23-9/6. I will not go and quarantine for the entire trip. Just hoping Hawaii opens up. We both had coronavirus 3/1 for about 5-6 days, start to finish, and we have immunity because we were tested. But if I am a carrier, I could hurt others, so I will still always wear a mask. I have N-95 masks Rick had to buy as an EMT. They bought their own back then. We have a full box of those things and a partial box.

I don't believe any study has established that you have immunity. When you say you were tested, I assume you're speaking of the presence of antibodies. It seems likely and the experts believe that's likely the case, but it is not certain until it is tested by a quality study. In addition, they have no idea how long the immunity, if you have it, lasts. So you should still be cautious, not only of others, but of yourselves until there is clear proof and you know how long it lasts.

 

[DeniseM]

Eight new Coronavirus cases on Oahu - it looks like opening things up is increasing the cases of Cornavirus.

Hawaii coronavirus cases climb by 9 for second straight day, raising statewide total to 673 | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

Hawaii Department of Health officials said today that the state’s tally of coronavirus cases has risen to 673, up nine from Friday.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[Luanne]

Eight new Coronavirus cases on Oahu - it looks like opening things up is increasing the cases of Cornavirus.

Hawaii coronavirus cases climb by 9 for second straight day, raising statewide total to 673 | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

Hawaii Department of Health officials said today that the state’s tally of coronavirus cases has risen to 673, up nine from Friday.

www.staradvertiser.com

As with other states it could also be they are doing more testing?

 

[DeniseM]

Good point, Luanne - I hope that's it. I've been concerned about the fall out from the big unsanctioned beach parties that they had Memorial Day weekend.

 

[slip]

Good point, Luanne - I hope that's it. I've been concerned about the fall out from the big unsanctioned beach parties that they had Memorial Day weekend.

I think we have to wait another week to see if that was an issue. It’s too early to tell with the incubation period.

Restaurants opened yesterday to dine-in with restrictions. I was able to get a haircut today. First time in over 5 months. Boy, does that feel good. Just in time with the weather getting warmer.

 

[JIMinNC]

Activity increases, cases will go up. Even in Hawaii. Coronavirus is here to stay in the US. We have to learn to coexist with it. Unless we are prepared to shut down business and travel for years, we have to learn how to function with the virus in our world. Hopefully Hawaii and everyone else will realize that eventually. It ain’t gong away. It’s not going to be eradicated. Cases will continue for years. The question is not when will it be gone, the question is how long will it take for us to learn to manage it and live with it like we do other deadly diseases.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Good point, Luanne - I hope that's it. I've been concerned about the fall out from the big unsanctioned beach parties that they had Memorial Day weekend.

The fallout from the Memorial Day Beach parties will be trivial compared with the consequences of the George Floyd demonstrations. Instead of hundreds of people without social distancing there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people interacting without social distancing. And instead of people simply milling about and socializing, during demonstrations people bave been screaming, shouting, panting, hyperventilating, and generally engaging in all of the behaviors associated with super-spreader events.

If you are "concerned" about the fall out from Memorial Day beach parties, by any rational measure you should be in terror regarding what has transpired in the last two weeks. The COVID-19 transmission impacts of the Memorial Day events are trivial in comparison to what we have seen since that time.

 

[csodjd]

The fallout from the Memorial Day Beach parties will be trivial compared with the consequences of the George Floyd demonstrations. Instead of hundreds of people without social distancing there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people interacting without social distancing. And instead of people simply milling about and socializing, during demonstrations people bave been screaming, shouting, panting, hyperventilating, and generally engaging in all of the behaviors associated with super-spreader events.

If you are "concerned" about the fall out from Memorial Day beach parties, by any rational measure you should be in terror regarding what has transpired in the last two weeks. The COVID-19 transmission impacts of the Memorial Day events are trivial in comparison to what we have seen since that time.

My guess is that neither one will be as bad or dire as some might fear, because they are outdoors and the viral load/exposure is far less than in close quarters.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

My guess is that neither one will be as bad or dire as some might fear, because they are outdoors and the viral load/exposure is far less than in close quarters.

In the end, the difference between "pandemic" and "endemic" is a societal decision, not a medical decision. The transition occurs when collectively we decide to accept the risks and get on with life.

That will almost certainly happen before public health personnel think we are "ready". That endpoint will no doubt be different in various locales, as it should be; each region should make it's own decisions, and we should respect those decisions even though those decisions might differ from our own beliefs and preferences.

 

[jabberwocky]

I agree with being cautious (I started wearing a face mask in mid-March well before anyone was advising this) - but promoting this idea that antibodies don’t give some level of immunity is harmful and anti-scientific. Consider:

1) the human body seems to be able to clear the virus by itself in the vast majority of cases. The only way to do so is via an immune response.
2) if you can’t get immunity via antibodies then why are billions of dollars being spent to develop a vaccine which is designed to initiate the production of such antibodies?

I’m unaware of any studies that have shown that humans do not develop resistance after infection from Covid-19 (and I’ve read a lot of studies).

Yes - we don’t know how long immunity lasts; however, that is due to the short period of time that has elapsed since the emergence of this virus and is not evidence that there is no immunity conferred for some period of time.

Remember, sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt are effective tools for timeshare salespeople, they are also useful tools for public health officials and politicians. That does not mean long-standing scientific knowledge of immune systems should be disregarded.

 

[csodjd]

I agree with being cautious (I started wearing a face mask in mid-March well before anyone was advising this) - but promoting this idea that antibodies don’t give some level of immunity is harmful and anti-scientific. Consider:

1) the human body seems to be able to clear the virus by itself in the vast majority of cases. The only way to do so is via an immune response.
2) if you can’t get immunity via antibodies then why are billions of dollars being spent to develop a vaccine which is designed to initiate the production of such antibodies?

I’m unaware of any studies that have shown that humans do not develop resistance after infection from Covid-19 (and I’ve read a lot of studies).

Yes - we don’t know how long immunity lasts; however, that is due to the short period of time that has elapsed since the emergence of this virus and is not evidence that there is no immunity conferred for some period of time.

Remember, sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt are effective tools for timeshare salespeople, they are also useful tools for public health officials and politicians. That does not mean long-standing scientific knowledge of immune systems should be disregarded.

In the arena of immunology, we should just follow the science. Comments like "I’m unaware of any studies that have shown that humans do not develop resistance after infection from Covid-19" is proof of nothing. I'm unaware of any studies that have shown COVID isn't part of an alien plot from a secret society living on the dark side of the moon. So is that "evidence" that there is, in fact, a secret society on the dark side of the moon using COVID as a plot against us? Of course not.

The LACK of studies doesn't prove anything. It is the OUTCOME of studies that prove things.

So, what you/we are looking for are studies that demonstrate the immunity, and inform us as to it breadth, depth, and longevity. You've read a lot of studies. But you didn't mention that any of THOSE exist yet.

It seems likely that some degree of immunity exists in those that have been infected. But we know nothing more, yet. Does a mild/low viral load infection provide the same degree of immunity as a high viral load, for instance. Do all people develop the same immunity or do some develop a strong lasting immunity and others a very weak immunity? If you are taking an immunosuppresive drug for psoriasis or RA or IBS or a host of other things, does that change whether you are immune? So many unknowns at this early point in time that it is irresponsible to ASSUME you cannot become reinfected now, or 4 months from now, and based on that assumption disregard things like social distancing and face masks. We will know in time, but until we do, it is safer for everyone to act as if you can get reinfected.

 

[burg1121]

Activity increases, cases will go up. Even in Hawaii. Coronavirus is here to stay in the US. We have to learn to coexist with it. Unless we are prepared to shut down business and travel for years, we have to learn how to function with the virus in our world. Hopefully Hawaii and everyone else will realize that eventually. It ain’t gong away. It’s not going to be eradicated. Cases will continue for years. The question is not when will it be gone, the question is how long will it take for us to learn to manage it and live with it like we do other deadly diseases.

I'm not sure why that it's here to stay is a given. Most of what the experts have said seems to change weekly. Some corona viruses just burnout like SARS. No one knows what this one will do. Let's hope thar it follows in it's cousins footsteps.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'm not sure why that it's here to stay is a given. Most of what the experts have said seems to change weekly. Some corona viruses just burnout like SARS. No one knows what this one will do. Let's hope thar it follows in it's cousins footsteps.

The difference between the current situation and the original SARS seems to be that SARS was largely contained to a few localized areas. So once it was contained in those few places, it did not spread as widely as this one has. For some reason, Covid19 seems to spread so much easier than the original SARS making it harder to contain and eradicate. That is why so many scientists think this will eventually just become another disease that circulates in our world. Fortunately Covid 19 is less deadly than SARS.

 

[csodjd]

I'm not sure why that it's here to stay is a given. Most of what the experts have said seems to change weekly. Some corona viruses just burnout like SARS. No one knows what this one will do. Let's hope thar it follows in it's cousins footsteps.

This one is particularly difficult to eliminate because of the number of people that can carry it without symptoms or knowledge that they are, in fact, carrying it. It is not unlike some STDs, in fact. One of the most difficult aspects of controlling the spread of them is that in many cases there is no visible sign someone has it. This virus has that same trait.

There is a theory, and Univ of Pittsburgh doctors are obvserving this, that the virility of the virus will diminish with time because the virus self-selects for a more mild form. If it kills the host, the virus dies with it. The viruses that survive to replicate are those that have a more mild affect on the host.

 

[DeniseM]

There is a new article in the Star Advertised that provides the source of the new 8 cases of Coronavirus on Oahu: it was the family of a previously known case. I think it's good news, that it wasn't a new source:

Of Saturday’s eight new cases, six came from the same household in Waipahu with one of them a coworker of a previous case. The two remaining cases were also household members of previous cases, highlighting the importance of contact tracing, Anderson said.

Hawaii is likely to see more COVID-19 infections as reopening continues, health director says | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

The number of new coronavirus cases in Hawaii has increased slightly, nearly reaching half of all of May’s cases in the first week of this month. But Hawaii’s health director says the state continues to be positioned well in its response to the pandemic.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[jpd88]

I don't intend to spend my week quarantined in resort's room. Our vacation is planned for early July and I haven't canceled, yet. Just read the governor's myriad rules. Among them - you can't have visitors in your room, you can't visit the hotel's restaurants, you can't walk a dog outside,.....in essence, you can't leave your room...period. What a farce.

 

[DeniseM]

Please be aware that they have been arresting and deporting people who break quarantine. You should cancel your July reservation, because the governor has already said that he is extending the quarantine into July.

*Additional note: When you check-in, they give you a key card that allows admission to your unit one time. Once you leave, you can't get back into your unit, and the resort will report you.

 

[Luanne]

I don't intend to spend my week quarantined in resort's room. Our vacation is planned for early July and I haven't canceled, yet. Just read the governor's myriad rules. Among them - you can't have visitors in your room, you can't visit the hotel's restaurants, you can't walk a dog outside,.....in essence, you can't leave your room...period. What a farce.

Yep, this has been made perfectly clear, and as Denise posted it's being taken seriously. A couple who arrived on Kauai and detoured to a grocery store before checking in were arrested. In another case a man took selfies on the beach on Oahu. He was also arrested.

 

[slip]

There is a new article in the Star Advertised that provides the source of the new 8 cases of Coronavirus on Oahu: it was the family of a previously known case. I think it's good news, that it wasn't a new source:

Hawaii is likely to see more COVID-19 infections as reopening continues, health director says | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

The number of new coronavirus cases in Hawaii has increased slightly, nearly reaching half of all of May’s cases in the first week of this month. But Hawaii’s health director says the state continues to be positioned well in its response to the pandemic.

www.staradvertiser.com

I agree, this is good news and not the first time that when a higher than usual number came out they were able to explain that it was an isolated incident/cluster. It’s also nice to say that 8 cases is a higher than normal number.

 

[slip]

I don't intend to spend my week quarantined in resort's room. Our vacation is planned for early July and I haven't canceled, yet. Just read the governor's myriad rules. Among them - you can't have visitors in your room, you can't visit the hotel's restaurants, you can't walk a dog outside,.....in essence, you can't leave your room...period. What a farce.

I have seen a similar post before. Why would allowing people to do these things be a quarantine. It defeats the purpose if you are allowed to do these things. You may not agree with the quarantine and that’s fine but it is a quarantine.

 

[Luanne]

I have seen a similar post before. Why would allowing people to do these things be a quarantine. It defeats the purpose if you are allowed to do these things. You may not agree with the quarantine and that’s fine but it is a quarantine.

Or, to put it another way. You don't want to quarantine.....don't come.

 

[Ken555]

I have seen a similar post before. Why would allowing people to do these things be a quarantine. It defeats the purpose if you are allowed to do these things. You may not agree with the quarantine and that’s fine but it is a quarantine.

People need to vent when they are inconvenienced, it seems, and TUG is a safe place to do so. As for the earlier post mentioning farce...that word really made me laugh...since it’s not Hawai’i which is creating a farce, it’s those who put us all in this preventable situation. But sure, some people will mistakenly direct their anger at Hawaii for protecting the health of their residents instead of welcoming everyone, including C19, with open arms.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

.in essence, you can't leave your room...period. What a farce.

That's what quarantine means. If you can leave your abode, it's not quarantine.

 

[csodjd]

That's what quarantine means. If you can leave your abode, it's not quarantine.

Quarantine is often viewed as being punished. Like being sent to your room. What it really means is you are being treated with the assumption you have a contagious disease. The fact that you may not feel sick is a red herring. These quarantines assume you ARE sick and contagious. If there was a highly reliable way to test it seems the quarantine could be negated. But so far a sufficiently certain test -- one with high enough sensitivity and specificity -- has been elusive, making quarantine the only reliable "test" for the disease. But it's not being punished.

The part that makes it understandably frustrating is that quarantining itself has a very high "false positive" rate -- meaning the vast majority being assumed to have the disease and required to quarantine do not, in fact, have it. I would love to see some rationale softening by providing a way to "buy" yourself out of quarantine with, say, two false tests taken 24 or 48 hours apart.

 

[csodjd]

I don't intend to spend my week quarantined in resort's room. Our vacation is planned for early July and I haven't canceled, yet. Just read the governor's myriad rules. Among them - you can't have visitors in your room, you can't visit the hotel's restaurants, you can't walk a dog outside,.....in essence, you can't leave your room...period. What a farce.

I would not plan on going in early July. I'm hoping we can go in late October, but can't even say I'm "fairly certain" that travel from California will be allowed then.