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Carnival Cruise Line threatens to remove its ships from US home ports to sail elsewhere

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The big takeaway is what did we learn from COVID-19, what do we know and how can we better react / respond / prevent this from ever happening again. Among the lessons learned is we can't shut down the economy as we did (in the manner we did it) without some serious negative effects. If anything good is to come from COVID-19, we need to have a much better playbook at the ready for how to deal with a pandemic. While the time to develop a vaccine to combat COVID-19 was agonizingly long by today's standards, I suspect in review, that timeline was very brief compared to previous outbreaks. If our scientific processes improve and streamline and we have to deal with a similar situation again in the future, I hope we are now much better prepared.

The role of the CDC should be reconsidered and reformed as well. In a perfect world, we would have such an entity in existence and free from all outside influence(s). Clearly, we don't live in a perfect world and I don't see any easy answers on how to create an entity like the CDC should be.
(Above emphasis mine) We DID have a playbook on what to do if (when) a pandemic arose- it was thrown out. We DID have a pandemic task force ready to spring to action. It was disbanded. There were plans on what to do to prepare the economy, kick-start production of treatments/vaccines. They were ignored wholly instead distributing bogus treatments (hydroxyquine, injecting bleach), stopping testing and tracking of those infected.

Without naming names- it's unnecessary- NOBODY can claim the the initial reaction to Covid- even though it's seriousness was KNOWN- and reported- was not blotched.

Jim
 
If the cruise lines flew the American flag with American wages and all American products then that $1000 cruise would be a much higher number

Also
Unless employees are lying or hiding something everyone we have talked with on cruises appreciate their jobs and the $ they make equals a much higher wage than they could make. If any wage at all from where the originate
 
I have to admit that my first thoughts were similar to Ken's (in this area only - :p )

It's nice that some of us can agree and recognize that even though we may approach issues from different perspectives, ultimately we respect opinions when those opinions are based in fact. I disagree with you more than I agree, but I (don't believe) I have ever thought you had an uninformed opinion nor do I believe that your opinion cannot be changed when presented with compelling arguments.
 
If the cruise lines flew the American flag with American wages and all American products then that $1000 cruise would be a much higher number

This means that the American tax payer is subsidizing a portion of the cruise industry, since those ships which operate exclusively within the US pay higher taxes and labor wages as compared with those that do not. Is this fair to those companies which operate within the US and pay taxes?
 
(Above emphasis mine) We DID have a playbook on what to do if (when) a pandemic arose- it was thrown out. We DID have a pandemic task force ready to spring to action. It was disbanded. There were plans on what to do to prepare the economy, kick-start production of treatments/vaccines. They were ignored wholly instead distributing bogus treatments (hydroxyquine, injecting bleach), stopping testing and tracking of those infected.

Without naming names- it's unnecessary- NOBODY can claim the the initial reaction to Covid- even though it's seriousness was KNOWN- and reported- was not blotched.

Jim

Jim,

I agree the initial reaction to COVID - by the Chinese - was botched (although covered up may be more correct description). But any playbook / plans / committees that were in existence in the United States were found to be lacking as well. And yes, I include all politicians in that statement - regardless of their ideology.

Whatever plans we had, did not work. There were / are several factors that contributed to that outcome.
We need to go back to the drawing board, but in the current political climate that seems quite unlikely.
 
It's nice that some of us can agree and recognize that even though we may approach issues from different perspectives, ultimately we respect opinions when those opinions are based in fact. I disagree with you more than I agree, but I (don't believe) I have ever thought you had an uninformed opinion nor do I believe that your opinion cannot be changed when presented with compelling arguments.

I wondered if you would see that! And yes, I agree with this sentiment. I've read your posts on a variety of subjects here on TUG and will continue to do so because revisiting the process which leads one to a conclusion is a worthwhile undertaking. Carry on!
 
I live in Florida. Most, if not all, other tourism sources have been open since last July. Cruising is the only large tourism center not allowed to open. If the 10% number is accurate, try taking 10% from any economy and see how much it hurts. While this may not affect someone living in Delaware, it most certainly affects someone living in Florida and especially those who rely on that part of the economy to make a living, whether they are American or not.

No one here has written that Florida would not be hurt by the continuing suspension of cruising.

If you go back to the beginning of the thread though, what infuriate me the most is the cavalier attitude of the first few posters with their "bye bye" and "see ya" posts.

That's me! I still believe it. I think cruising is still *not safe*, and the cruise industry "health panel's" and other groups they've created in order to improve their PR after the 2020 debacle that has scared away many from cruising can only be assumed to have been done as a marketing effort in order to not go bankrupt. I don't blame the cruise industry for using their PR and marketing teams to improve perception, but ultimately I have read little about actual, factual, changes on board ships which have improved air flow and circulation (I've read a lot about this, and it's predominantly marketing). Videos and pictures from cruises which have operated in the last year show little adherence to social distancing (in fact, I distinctly recall a video where ships officers were shaking hands and hugging (!!) passengers).

Yet, I still have five cruises booked and intend to book more, though some of those I have will likely be canceled or rebooked for a later date.

I'm still of the opinion it's too early for cruising to resume. Much of my opinion is due to my significant and regular cruising over the last number of years where I have seen first hand the indifference of crew following health guidelines carefully. Instead, they sort-of follow guidance...and most crew have an inability to correct a passenger when the passenger flaunts health guidance (washy washy), etc.

There are many, many companies that move their facilities outside of the US due to tax/regulation concerns (all of the big car makers/Nike/etc...) with nary a word about it.

Um...no. Lots of people notice when these companies move abroad. You're now attempting to rewrite history. Do a few searches and you'll see numerous references to the response of companies moving abroad, what that means to our economy, and the long-term anticipated impact such changes will have on our economy (some of which are already occurring).

Also, other cruise lines (Royal and NCL) stated prior to Carnival's media release that they were going to start operations outside of the US with not a peep being made.

Once again, you're rewriting history. Lots of peeps were made, mostly in favor of their decision (especially by the cruise fanatics).

So is it just a general disdain for Carnival, the largest, most successful of all of the cruise lines, or a disdain for the entire cruising industry? In either case, such flippancy is uncalled for as Carnival is just a business, like Disney/Universal/Seaworld that is trying to figure out how to keep it's head above water and keep a business alive during these times that so many people count on for employment and pleasure.

Now you're asking us to respect businesses because...they're a business. Huh? Sorry, nope. Businesses need to earn my trust, earn my respect, and earn my $$. I don't want the cruise industry to fail (once again, I currently have five booked cruises) but they need, can, and must do better.

I suspect this will all be solved in the near future once every cruise line commits that every person on board must be vaccinated and all countries the ship visits are doing well in terms of Covid vaccination. Over time I think this would be relaxed so those who are medically unable to be vaccinated (and those are very few, from what I understand) would also be able to cruise. For myself, as of now I do not want to be on a ship in the next year or so with anyone who has not been vaccinated, and if that means I must cancel my trip so be it. Guidance changes over time, so as new info is released my opinion will no doubt also change.

While I don't work for the cruise line industry, I certainly can empathize with those who do and how their lives, both in the US and overseas, have been utterly disrupted, and in many cases, destroyed, by the actions of the CDC.

You seem to think those of us who do not believe it is yet safe to cruise have a fundamental issue with the cruise industry. Untrue. I also empathize with those who work in the cruise industry and am personally concerned that their livelihoods have been impacted by this pandemic (as many of us have been, regardless of industry). I do not believe this is strictly due to the CDC. You are blaming the agency responsible for our collective health when you should be blaming your neighbors, your community, your State, your political leaders and other Americans for not following medical advice when this pandemic was first discovered. We could have had it under control had we followed guidance but that was too difficult. And now you want to blame someone and the CDC is an obvious target for your rage.
 
If the cruise lines flew the American flag with American wages and all American products then that $1000 cruise would be a much higher number

Also
Unless employees are lying or hiding something everyone we have talked with on cruises appreciate their jobs and the $ they make equals a much higher wage than they could make. If any wage at all from where the originate

That is 100% correct. One only needs to look at the prices of the NCL Pride of America (the only cruise ship from a major cruise line that flies an American flag) to see it's prices are roughly double what other cruise ships run for a 7 night cruise. And IMO, the service, with American staff, was, while good, not as good as other cruise ships I've sailed.

I have yet to meet a member of a cruise ship that was not overjoyed at being able to work on a cruise ship. Yes, they miss their families at times but what they make on a cruise ship versus what they would make in their country of origin far outweighs the negatives of working on a cruise ship.
 
I have yet to meet a member of a cruise ship that was not overjoyed at being able to work on a cruise ship. Yes, they miss their families at times but what they make on a cruise ship versus what they would make in their country of origin far outweighs the negatives of working on a cruise ship.

Where do our labor laws fit within this scenario?

And, dare I ask, would you ever expect to hear anything otherwise from crew than this opinion? Think about it.
 
IMHO. Any order for any cruise line to be profitable, they must sail from American ports with American cruisers. .
 
IMHO. Any order for any cruise line to be profitable, they must sail from American ports with American cruisers. .

There are cruise lines that don't port in the USA, and they are profitable.
 
There are cruise lines that don't port in the USA, and they are profitable.
I was reference the big four cruise lines that port in the USA; Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Disney and NCL.

Celebrity Cruise Line and Silver Seas Cruise Lines are under the Royal Caribbean umberra

Princess Cruise Line, Holland America, Cunard, Adia, Seabourne, Costa, P&O Cruise Lines are owned by Carnival Corp.
 
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I was reference the big four cruise lines that port in the USA; Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Disney and NCL.

Celebrity Cruise Line and Silver Seas Cruise Lines are under the Royal Caribbean umberra

Princess Cruise Line, Holland America, Cunard, Adia, Seabourne, Costa, P&O Cruise Lines are owned by Carnival Corp.

Yes, these cruise lines have built into their business model the fact that they pay ~2% taxes in the US, and need to sail at convenient ports for the US cruiser.
 
I forgot to include that NCL own Regent and Oceania Cruise Lines.

I feel without American cruisers sailing from American ports, the cruise industry cannot survive. IMHO.

Finally, in 2019 over,10 million Americans cruise from North American ports.
 
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I watched the HBO documentary mentioned here “The Last Cruise.” A lot of the staff or crew members were from Indonesia. Maruja Daya, a pastry chef, makes $997 a month and works 13 hour days with little time off.
 
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I have yet to meet a member of a cruise ship that was not overjoyed at being able to work on a cruise ship. Yes, they miss their families at times but what they make on a cruise ship versus what they would make in their country of origin far outweighs the negatives of working on a cruise ship.

Have you seen the movie “The Help.” You need to watch the movie “The Help”
 
I watched the HBO documentary mentioned here “The Last Cruise.” A lot of the staff or crew members were from Indonesia. Maruja Daya, a pastry chef, makes $997 a month and works 13 hour days with little time off.

And?
Not sure what the angle was and not trying to be negative
But some places have 4br homes for rent with a staff member for a couple hundred a month

What we expect for a wage to live a certain lifestyle is very different than where a lot of these other expect

If the place these people live was better than a cruise life then none of them would do it but staff I have met have told me they had been doing it for years
 
...but staff I have met have told me they had been doing it for years

Have you seen the movie “The Help.” You need to watch the movie “The Help”

Better yet, read the book.
 
I saw another documentary about working on a cruise line. The maid was suppose to start cleaning rooms at 7am or 8am. But not a lot of people wanted to get up that early. She would have to wait for people to leave their rooms and thus couldn’t actually complete cleaning the rooms by the end of her shift.

So, she would pay other crew members to help her clean so she could finish her job in the allotted time. In the end she was making next to nothing.
 
I realize that there needs to be waiters, cleaning staff, etc. I just hope that I never come to think "Oh these people should be so grateful that I am allowing them to serve me."
 
Have you seen the movie “The Help.” You need to watch the movie “The Help”

Yes, I have. If you think the two situations are even remotely similar, you really just don't understand the cruise industry. Cruise lines have a wait list of people wanting to work for them. I don't think any black person in Mississippi was waiting in a line to work for a white family as a maid in the 1950s.
 
I saw another documentary about working on a cruise line. The maid was suppose to start cleaning rooms at 7am or 8am. But not a lot of people wanted to get up that early. She would have to wait for people to leave their rooms and thus couldn’t actually complete cleaning the rooms by the end of her shift.

So, she would pay other crew members to help her clean so she could finish her job in the allotted time. In the end she was making next to nothing.

And most documentaries show things from the perspective they want you to see. Are you trying to compare hundreds of thousands of workers to one woman's supposedly accurate story? If so, I'm guessing you think the 60 Minutes story on Gov DeSantis was fully accurate as well.
 
I realize that there needs to be waiters, cleaning staff, etc. I just hope that I never come to think "Oh these people should be so grateful that I am allowing them to serve me."

Not sure what angle you are trying to play. As I said before, I have been on 30 cruises and I like talking with the crew and have gotten to know several of them very well. Every single one I've spoken with was happy to be working as they either could not find work back home or the pay back home was pitiful. Have you ever said anything other than "Thank you" to a crew member? Do you even say "Thank you"? I've seen plenty of dirt bag cruisers who can't even manage to thank someone for what they do. Not to mention the jackwads on the last night of a cruise at the GS desk pulling their tips to save a few bucks.
 
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Second cruise line will require vaccination. DeSantis says he can bar cruise ships from Florida harbors.

 
... Have you ever said anything other than "Thank you" to a crew member? Do you even say "Thank you"? I've seen plenty of dirt bag cruisers who can't even manage to thank someone for what they do. Not to mention the jackwads on the last night of a cruise at the GS desk pulling their tips to save a few bucks.

Enjoy. (Great song)
 
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