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Carnival Cruise Line threatens to remove its ships from US home ports to sail elsewhere

am1

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When people are willing to assume the risk the cruise lines should be able to sail. Everything in life carries risk.
And who covering the downside of it all? Should a thousand or more people housed together be let to roam free on a tiny island with insufficient medical care? Even if the islands/places want/need the tourists is it the right thing to do as a company and passenger?
 

Ken555

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As I stated earlier, after 30 cruises I have never had any kind of illness aboard a ship.
In the last ~6 years I have been on about a dozen cruises. I have been sick on about 30% of those cruises, and have more than several times visited the ship doctor (and have the travel insurance claims to prove it!). I still cruise, but I don’t give them a pass on cleanliness.

A few years ago I was on a cruise from Hong Kong to Sydney, and we had so many cases of Noro on board that Australia almost didn't let us disembark. On day of disembarking, they did a thorough cleaning even before we left... here's a pic of my (wonderful) steward as she prepared to clean (again).

You may not have become ill on cruises, but it is an incontrovertible fact that many, many do.

IMG_7911.jpg
 

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Listen, I cruise often, and have for 40 years. I currently have 2 booked for this year. Don't be accusing me of slander, or 'hating' this or any other industry. So go crawl back under your rock and watch your accusations. By the way, I happen to LIKE fried shrimp, but prefer camarones in ceviche cooked in lime juice.

Jim
Reported.
 

Fried_shrimp

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I am an avid cruiser. Many dozens of cruises out of Florida over the past twenty years. If prices and offerings are even close to what they were pre-plague, we'll definitely be back onboard sooner rather than later. I expect us to cruise in September, more than 18 months since our last cruise. Now that we are vaccinated and data is finally saying that we are unlikely to be infected or transmit this virus, it's just a matter of time.

All that said... I thought it was accepted fact that cruise ships are ideal environments to pass around easily communicable diseases. I really believed that everyone with an ounce of sense knew this and had decided whether or not to cruise based on their risk tolerance. Under normal circumstances, we are willing to take the risks - others may not be, or just don't think the experience justifies any increased risks. Pretending that cruising doesn't come with known risks is just as silly as someone believing that cruising shouldn't exist because it doesn't suit them.

Further, on that list of places that cruise money gets spent, I'd be really interested in seeing how much of that gets spent in the US. Cruise lines have perfected the art of cost cutting, and one of the ways they do that is by running as little as they can under the US umbrella. There's something to be said for the fact that the cruise industry might find more sympathy to their plight if they weren't so invested in foreign flag operations.
Any large gathering of people is a place where diseases can be communicated. Airplanes, buses, concerts, large parties, the list goes on. Sure, it's a risk just like all the other risks we take in life but cruising is no more of a risk than being in one of the other areas where it is easier to transmit a disease.
 

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In the last ~6 years I have been on about a dozen cruises. I have been sick on about 30% of those cruises, and have more than several times visited the ship doctor (and have the travel insurance claims to prove it!). I still cruise, but I don’t give them a pass on cleanliness.

A few years ago I was on a cruise from Hong Kong to Sydney, and we had so many cases of Noro on board that Australia almost didn't let us disembark. On day of disembarking, they did a thorough cleaning even before we left... here's a pic of my (wonderful) steward as she prepared to clean (again).

You may not have become ill on cruises, but it is an incontrovertible fact that many, many do.

View attachment 34383
I don't deny some people become sick on a cruise but people become sick almost anywhere. Pass around a bug at school, at work, on a plane.......the list goes on. And getting sick there is just like getting sick anywhere else, because a careless person or people do what they aren't supposed to be doing. A cruise ship, just like anywhere else, can't monitor every single person's actions 100% of the time. If anyone is going to call out cruise lines as a health risk they need to call out every single other place that has a gathering of more than one person.
 

Ken555

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I don't deny some people become sick on a cruise but people become sick almost anywhere. Pass around a bug at school, at work, on a plane.......the list goes on. And getting sick there is just like getting sick anywhere else, because a careless person or people do what they aren't supposed to be doing. A cruise ship, just like anywhere else, can't monitor every single person's actions 100% of the time. If anyone is going to call out cruise lines as a health risk they need to call out every single other place that has a gathering of more than one person.
This is the typical response I have read for years on this topic from those whom are cruise fanatics. There are inherent differences between a cruise ship, where we stay for days or weeks at a time, compared to any of the other venues you mentioned. Perhaps you should reconsider while trying to be objective.

I would like nothing more than for cruises to resume operations safely. Given their history and the current uncertainty of Covid implications, I do not trust the cruise industry to put the health of cruisers and crew ahead of profits.


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Fried_shrimp

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This is the typical response I have read for years on this topic from those whom are cruise fanatics. There are inherent differences between a cruise ship, where we stay for days or weeks at a time, compared to any of the other venues you mentioned. Perhaps you should reconsider while trying to be objective.

I would like nothing more than for cruises to resume operations safely. Given their history and the current uncertainty of Covid implications, I do not trust the cruise industry to put the health of cruisers and crew ahead of profits.


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I don't know about you or anyone else but when I cruise, I'm rarely around strangers for more than an hour unlike the guy hacking his lungs out next to me on an 11 hour flight from Germany. So maybe it's the "typical" response because it's an accurate response and you're not looking at the big picture correctly. The longest I might be within 6 feet of a stranger on ship is for probably the hour or so spent at dinner with strangers at our table (shared table). How long do you sit/stand next to strangers on a cruise ship?? Also something to think about, on a cruise ship one is usually out on deck in the open air. Can't roll down the window of an aircraft for some fresh air. I would take the risk of taking a cruise over an aircraft flight 100 times over.
 

Ken555

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I don't know about you or anyone else but when I cruise, I'm rarely around strangers for more than an hour unlike the guy hacking his lungs out next to me on an 11 hour flight from Germany. So maybe it's the "typical" response because it's an accurate response and you're not looking at the big picture correctly. The longest I might be within 6 feet of a stranger on ship is for probably the hour or so spent at dinner with strangers at our table (shared table). How long do you sit/stand next to strangers on a cruise ship?? Also something to think about, on a cruise ship one is usually out on deck in the open air. Can't roll down the window of an aircraft for some fresh air. I would take the risk of taking a cruise over an aircraft flight 100 times over.
Yeah...this is how the conversation usually goes with a cruise fanatic. Sorry, I’m not going to engage any further.


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Open the cruise lines up with the understanding that you cruise at your own risk
Which is what we have done anyways

if I’m not afraid to cruise and neither are others on the boat then who cares?

If those locked down are afraid to board then wait your turn
Maybe have a medicated cruise and non medicated

It’s total BS who gets to decide essential or not
Look at f ing Walmart
It looks like Disney World

Maybe a vaca is essential for those who need a break from the nut jobs or just jobs
 

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Yeah...this is how the conversation usually goes with a cruise fanatic. Sorry, I’m not going to engage any further.


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So you don't even know my first name but you know I'm a "cruise fanatic". Must be a heck of a crystal ball you have there to ignore common sense information.
 

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Open the cruise lines up with the understanding that you cruise at your own risk
Which is what we have done anyways

if I’m not afraid to cruise and neither are others on the boat then who cares?

If those locked down are afraid to board then wait your turn
Maybe have a medicated cruise and non medicated
Both Royal and NCL have stated that on their cruises starting outside the US in July that all passengers 18 and above as well as all crew have to be vaccinated. I personally have no issue with that and even got my J&J shot last month just so I could start cruising when the time arrives. I would have probably cruised without being vaccinated (just as I cruised without ever getting a flu shot) if that had been an option but it seems most major cruise lines are going in that direction so I figured I'd go ahead and get it.

Carnival hasn't stated one way or the other yet about requiring vaccinations.
 

Gypsy65

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In the last ~6 years I have been on about a dozen cruises. I have been sick on about 30% of those cruises, and have more than several times visited the ship doctor (and have the travel insurance claims to prove it!). I still cruise, but I don’t give them a pass on cleanliness.

A few years ago I was on a cruise from Hong Kong to Sydney, and we had so many cases of Noro on board that Australia almost didn't let us disembark. On day of disembarking, they did a thorough cleaning even before we left... here's a pic of my (wonderful) steward as she prepared to clean (again).

You may not have become ill on cruises, but it is an incontrovertible fact that many, many do.

View attachment 34383
30%
really?

holy crap

I am 56. And have been sick literally maybe 4x

I don’t lick doorknobs or share drinks but I see others who get sick all the damn time

I think some people just get sick a lot and some don’t

I also think it’s the same with covid
You are either going to get it or not
Either going to have major complications or not
I have been all across the USA the past 1.5 years
We have had over 12 separate vacation stays and no issues whatsoever
 

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I love how someone who joined TUG a few months ago (and has not paid the member fees) decides to attack @Passepartout who has made his love of cruising well-known on this site over the years, and who is also known as a thoughtful, reasonable poster. If only this person had read enough of the threads over time to realize that.
*smdh*
 

Ken555

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So you don't even know my first name but you know I'm a "cruise fanatic". Must be a heck of a crystal ball you have there to ignore common sense information.
Based on your posts any commentary on any criticism of the cleanliness and health of cruise passengers...yup.

Your first name isn’t Fry? ;)


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Ken555

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30%
really?

holy crap

I am 56. And have been sick literally maybe 4x

I don’t lick doorknobs or share drinks but I see others who get sick all the damn time

I think some people just get sick a lot and some don’t

I also think it’s the same with covid
You are either going to get it or not
Either going to have major complications or not
I have been all across the USA the past 1.5 years
We have had over 12 separate vacation stays and no issues whatsoever
Tell us more about how I shouldn’t have been sick the number of times I was on cruises. And, believe it or not, I’m not licking doorknobs either. It’s not like I went on those trips hoping to get sick. I was simply illustrating that people get sick on cruises, since we have someone here who believes they are as clean as [insert your preferred industry here].

Once again, I enjoy cruises. I even have five booked from October 2021 thru November 2022, though I now doubt if I will be comfortable with them (these are all international cruises to/from Europe and South America and at the moment I doubt Brazil will be safe to visit anytime soon). It’s sad, but I feel it’s important to state this since often the cruise fanatics will attack those who post anything critical of the cruise industry by questioning if they even cruise. Well, I cruise, I spend a lot with the industry, I enjoy it, I try not to get sick, and I know there is no way the cruise ships believe in protecting the health of the passengers and crew ahead of profits. Their attempt to restart cruising early and often is just another example of how they are unable to separate the health of their crew and passengers and their need to restart operations.


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Passepartout

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I love how someone who joined TUG a few months ago (and has not paid the member fees) decides to attack @Passepartout who has made his love of cruising well-known on this site over the years, and who is also known as a thoughtful, reasonable poster. If only this person had read enough of the threads over time to realize that.
Thanks, Amy. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but seldom know that they would be taken more seriously if they address the issue, than when they attack the messenger. As you noted this is a TIMESHARE USER's Group, and travel related, side issues, like cruising, can be discussed, but are tangential to the core of the group.
 

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Tell us more about how I shouldn’t have been sick the number of times I was on cruises. And, believe it or not, I’m not licking doorknobs either. It’s not like I went on those trips hoping to get sick. I was simply illustrating that people get sick on cruises, since we have someone here who believes they are as clean as [insert your preferred industry here].

Once again, I enjoy cruises. I even have five booked from October 2021 thru November 2022, though I now doubt if I will be comfortable with them (these are all international cruises to/from Europe and South America and at the moment I doubt Brazil will be safe to visit anytime soon). It’s sad, but I feel it’s important to state this since often the cruise fanatics will attack those who post anything critical of the cruise industry by questioning if they even cruise. Well, I cruise, I spend a lot with the industry, I enjoy it, I try not to get sick, and I know there is no way the cruise ships believe in protecting the health of the passengers and crew ahead of profits. Their attempt to restart cruising early and often is just another example of how they are unable to separate the health of their crew and passengers and their need to restart operations.


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I agree people get sick on cruises and at walmarts

My point is that some people. Cruisers or the Walmart crowd just get sick a lot more often than most people

I know a lot of people that like myself just don’t ever get sick but I also know a lot who are sick so often I’m amazed they can hold down a job

Is it genes? Being too clean or sterile like wiping all germs away, the good and bad?

Not sure what the reason is but in my personal experience the ones who are sick a lot are always the same people and ones I actually choose to have anything much to do with
 
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Based on your posts any commentary on any criticism of the cleanliness and health of cruise passengers...yup.

Your first name isn’t Fry? ;)


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And based on your commentary of nothing but criticism it seems you're a cruise hater. But your hated seems to be based on an irrational fear. Disney offers the exact same type of environment (lots of people walking around mostly outdoors and sometimes cooped up on a ride or in line for an hour) as a cruise does. Do you not think Disney and other theme parks have the same risks?

I do love Futurama.
 
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Fried_shrimp

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I love how someone who joined TUG a few months ago (and has not paid the member fees) decides to attack @Passepartout who has made his love of cruising well-known on this site over the years, and who is also known as a thoughtful, reasonable poster. If only this person had read enough of the threads over time to realize that.
*smdh*
I think you need to reread this thread from the beginning to see who started "attacking" who first. Or do you think anyone has the right to tell anyone else here effectively to shut up because they have a differing opinion? If you or others are okay with that then maybe I'm the one in the wrong place and I have no problem slipping out the back door.
 

Talent312

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I agree people get sick on cruises and at Walmarts...
Cruisers or the Walmart crowd just get sick a lot more often than most people.
What about cruisers at Walmart? ... or Walmart shoppers on cruises?
Wouldn't that almost be a guarantee illness? <kidding>

As for hospitals, one doc treating my DW said:
"I'd want to leave ASAP. This is where all the sick people are."

.
 

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IMO as a society we are trending towards totalitarian dictatorship by majority opinion. Which is extremely ironic: this nation was founded on the principle of personal freedom. Hopefully more people will realize that our freedoms are being eroded more rapidly by the day by fear mongering in the media.

If people want to smoke: assuming the risk of illness: that is OK.

If people want to drink: assuming the risk of illness: that is OK.

If people want to drive a car: assuming bodily harm to themselves and other: that is OK.

If people want to become obese by excessive consumption of unhealthy food: that is OK.

If people want to cruise: assuming risk of illness: that is not OK?

Anyone see a discrepancy? I do.

Alcohol, sugar and smoking probably kill more people and cost society more annually than COVID but nobody points this out. Another example of group think extremism I think.
 
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Ken555

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And based on your commentary of nothing but criticism it seems you're a cruise hater. But your hated seems to be based on an irrational fear. Disney offers the exact same type of environment (lots of people walking around mostly outdoors and sometimes cooped up on a ride or in line for an hour) as a cruise does. Do you not think Disney and other theme parks have the same risks?

I do love Futurama.
Nope, wrong again. How many times must I post that I currently have five booked cruises and have been on numerous cruises in recent years? It makes me a “cruise hater” to point out obvious issues with your argument that cruises are clean and safe, and healthy? Ha! I’m just being realistic... and I enjoy cruising, or else I wouldn’t be booked on more! This thread hasn’t encouraged any positive commentary, but you’re also new to TUG so you haven’t seen my past posts on this topic.

Note that you haven’t made a single comment on my earlier post re the cruise I was on where Australia almost didn’t allow us to disembark because we had a very high level of Noro on board. I even posted a pic of my steward in her outfit ready to clean! Nope, you just ignored that and continue to post commentary about how safe cruising is, and now attack me as a “hater”. You need to read reports on cruising from sources other than biased marketing sites. If you won’t believe a picture of a steward wearing a mask, gloves and protective gear due to a virus on board, it’s clear you have no objectivity on this topic.

Even with my history on cruises and recognition of the reality of health related concerns, I still have five cruises booked as of today! Try to call me a hater again and you lose all credibility...that’s really just hilarious.


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Ken555

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IMO as a society we are trending towards totalitarian dictatorship by majority opinion.
It seems you have forgotten the USA is a republic, and what that means. Regardless if you like it or not, the minority is not intended to rule. And... if you continue with this theme you’ll just get this thread locked.


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Another example: freedom of expression curtailed. Scary how "group think" is spreading. Suppressing personal freedom (including expression) is unconstitutional IMO.

Fortunately FL and other states are finally starting to push back.
 

Ken555

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Another example: freedom of expression curtailed. Scary how "group think" is spreading. Suppressing personal freedom (including expression) is unconstitutional IMO.

Fortunately FL and other states are finally starting to push back.
Do you want this thread to get locked?


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