Bought Wyndham Club Access Yesterday Without Understanding-Help Please?

[Arimaas]

FYI just so you have an idea, I picked up 154k points on eBay for $625 at Fairfield Glenn. I don't care about ARP just wanted low fees ($73 a month all inclusive), to most likely use at resorts within driving distance from NYC. Good job rescinding. My unit hasn't closed yet, but the broker (vacation properties for less) has been phenomenal.

 

[michellefromohio]

Is there a post that explains all of the acronyms? I was in a similar situation until today when we sent our rescision letter. What is PIC, specifically?

Thanks!

I don’t care if they are giving it to you for $10 per 1,000 points. If you have questions, back out now until you have all the answers you want. The rescission instructions are in the contract and the time you have varies by state so be sure to check now. Some states it’s as few as three days and that includes weekends.

Resale points give you everything retail does EXCEPT VIP status and Club Pass locations. You also do not get Plus partners that gives you the ability to convert points to car rentals and air fare. The trade is not worth it. It would be like paying $800 (in the form of maintenance fees for those points) to pay for airfare that only cost $200. The only time you buy from developer is if you want VIP. Many here will tell you VIP is a waste of money. Some will say it depends on how you will use it. Others say they have no regrets paying retail to get VIP. For a single person who has such flexibility, you’re better off sticking with the AFVC. You have no monthly commitment, and can choose not to vacation one year, and you won’t lose anything. If you decide you want to travel with friends and extended family on a regular basis who may not be able to afford places like those, then That might be different. But that doesn’t sound like the case for you. Also, I never recommend people get VIP by buying 400,000 or more points. I always tell them to utilize the PIC Plus Program. Get a dirt cheap three bedroom fixed week on eBay (has to be qualifying) buy 49,000 points and enroll that fixed week on PIC Plus. That three bedroom is worth 254,000 points. You do have to pay an $89 fee every time you want to exchange the week for points, but that’s only when you want it. That 49,000 package is around $10k. So you get more points for half the cost. You still have to pay MF on both the 49,000 points and the fixed weeks. Fixed week contracts normally have MF cheaper then points. Keep the MF under $800 a year and you’ll be cheaper in maintenance fees then the majority of points contracts.

Even better, buy resale or get one for free. TUB has a bargain bin forum where people are giving away contracts for free.

 

[Richelle]

This is my copy and paste blurb on PIC. Let me know if it doesn’t answer your questions. I don’t know if there is one place that provides you with the acronyms. There is nothing wrong with asking someone what an acronym means though, so don’t worry if you don’t know something.


PIC stands for Personal Interval Choice. Page 292 in the 2018-2019 directory explains more, but this is the nutshell version. If you have a qualifying fixed non-Wyndham week timeshare, you can enroll up to two of them in PIC. There are two flavors of PIC. PIC Express which is good for five years. Then there is PIC Plus which is permanent for as long as you own both the fixed week and points contract. Each fixed week as a fixed point value:

one bedroom 105,000 points

two bedroom 154,000 points

three (or more) bedrooms 254,000 points.

With PIC plus, you can use those points towards VIP status and to make reservations. With PIC Express, it only counts towards VIP status. You cannot use those points to make bookings. To enroll a fixed week into either PIC program, you need to make a point purchase. The minimum purchase is 49,000 points per PIC week you wish to enroll, if you buy through corporate ($12k for CWA, but you can likely negotiate that down with corporate or they might have a cheaper contract). You have to enroll them at the time of purchase. If you buy through the resorts, you will likely pay more. You can enroll up to two fixed weeks for a maximum if 508,000 points (two 3 bedrooms). PICs are non-transferable in the resale market. You can only add a PIC to your account if you buy points directly from Wyndham.

If you enroll (2) three bedroom fix weeks, and buy a 105,000 point package, it will run you in the neighborhood of $16k but you will have 613,000 VIP eligible points for bookings (with PIC Plus), which puts you at Silver and if you decide to go gold later, you only need to buy 87,000 points to do it.

A couple catches. First, as with any timeshare, those fixed weeks come with maintenance fees. For a three bedroom, try to keep it below $800 and you’ll MF cost will be lower then most point contracts. Also, you still have to pay the Wyndham program fee on those points of 58 cents per 1,000 points. For 254,000 points, that’s $147.32 per year or $12.27 a month. Finally, if you convert those weeks to points, there is an $89 fee per week you do it.

Think of PIC as just another exchange program. I bought my Fixed week on eBay for $28. That gives me 254,000 points. Let that sink in. 254,000 points for $28.




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[skotrla]

Think of PIC as just another exchange program. I bought my Fixed week on eBay for $28. That gives me 254,000 points. Let that sink in. 254,000 points for $28.

A fixed week for $28 - 254K points for $28 + $16,000 developer purchase.

-Scott

 

[grab]

So the PIC piece is new to me.

I own two 3BR units at Star Island (not Wyndham) and just bought 500k points at Wyndham Grand Desert.

I have the deed for grand desert but it will be months before it creates an account at Wyndham for me.

If I buy a 105k contract with Wyndham directly can I become Platinum as it would be over a million points?

 

[Jan M.]

So the PIC piece is new to me.

I own two 3BR units at Star Island (not Wyndham) and just bought 500k points at Wyndham Grand Desert.

I have the deed for grand desert but it will be months before it creates an account at Wyndham for me.

If I buy a 105k contract with Wyndham directly can I become Platinum as it would be over a million points?

Your resale Grand Desert points won't count towards VIP status.

 

[Richelle]

A fixed week for $28 - 254K points for $28 + $16,000 developer purchase.

-Scott

Minimum buy to enroll one PIC is 49,000, so

$12,000 developer+$28= $12,028 for a total of 303,000 points.

Retail cost of 303,000 points is $60,000 to $75,000

I know of someone who was quoted $14,688 for 105,000 points, so if someone wanted to enroll two PICs they would need a minimum of 98,000 points. That 105,000 point contract would cover it. So assuming Both PICs cost $28...

$14,688+$56= $14,744 for a total of 613,000 points. Retail value $122,000 to $153,000

Prices are based on CWA points and subject to change.

I only recommend PIC for people who want VIP. Whether not it is worth the upfront cost is debatable, and has been debated ad nauseam here and on the Facebook groups. Some people will get it regardless of what others say. As they should. It’s their right to decide what to do with their money. That said, I don’t think VIP is worth the six figure price tag. PIC is a way to get VIP cheap. One guy did two PICs enrolled when he bought 192,000 to go Gold. I believe that was around $25,000 total for Gold which retails for $140,000 to $175,000. Obviously is someone doesn’t care about VIP, Club Pass, and Plus Partners, the upfront costs are definitely not worth it. Resale would be way better.


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[Richelle]

So the PIC piece is new to me.

I own two 3BR units at Star Island (not Wyndham) and just bought 500k points at Wyndham Grand Desert.

I have the deed for grand desert but it will be months before it creates an account at Wyndham for me.

If I buy a 105k contract with Wyndham directly can I become Platinum as it would be over a million points?

Also, Star island is not a qualifying resort. It has to be a non-Wyndham resort.


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[vacationhopeful]

A non-affliciated Wyndham property ... Star Island is in the Wyndham directory (picture book with points) making it a NO-NO. Yes, Star Island has sections afflicated with Wyndham .. but the sections NOT part of Wyndham .. can NOT be Pick'ed.

 

[paxsarah]

I know of someone who was quoted $14,688 for 105,000 points, so if someone wanted to enroll two PICs they would need a minimum of 98,000 points. That 105,000 point contract would cover it. So assuming Both PICs cost $28...

$14,688+$56= $14,744 for a total of 613,000 points. Retail value $122,000 to $153,000

I don't understand where your retail value numbers come from. If someone was quoted $14,688 for 105,000 points, wouldn't it be possible to buy 6 x 105,000 points or 630,000 points for 6 x $14,688 or $88,128? I'm not saying that it's still not significantly less to enroll PICs than buying all the points direct, but the very numbers you're using seem to belie the quote of $122k to $153k for 613,000 points.

 

[grab]

A non-affliciated Wyndham property ... Star Island is in the Wyndham directory (picture book with points) making it a NO-NO. Yes, Star Island has sections afflicated with Wyndham .. but the sections NOT part of Wyndham .. can NOT be Pick'ed.

So when I bought Star Island I thought it was Wyndham but was told my section wasn’t...now with this PIC approach even though I get no Wyndham benefit at Star Island it can’t be PIC either.
Sounds so wrong it must be right.

 

[Richelle]

True. I should have stated that the quote was coming from telesales and not the resorts. So, let’s say instead we go with the 192,000 quote for $25k because there’s a bigger discount on that one. They got charged $133 per 1,000 points. That’s a little over $81,000 at that rate. Still. Far cry from $81,000. Most people buy at the resorts anyway, so I normally use the resort rates. The guy at the resort told me the going rate was $250 per 1,000 but I think it went up a few dollar. Obviously that’s initial price quote and not what you get after four hours of haggling, Which is why I gave a range when I was quoting retail price. Some probably got lower at the resorts, but I cannot account for that.

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[HitchHiker71]

Minimum buy to enroll one PIC is 49,000, so

$12,000 developer+$28= $12,028 for a total of 303,000 points.

Retail cost of 303,000 points is $60,000 to $75,000

I know of someone who was quoted $14,688 for 105,000 points, so if someone wanted to enroll two PICs they would need a minimum of 98,000 points. That 105,000 point contract would cover it. So assuming Both PICs cost $28...

$14,688+$56= $14,744 for a total of 613,000 points. Retail value $122,000 to $153,000

Prices are based on CWA points and subject to change.

I only recommend PIC for people who want VIP. Whether not it is worth the upfront cost is debatable, and has been debated ad nauseam here and on the Facebook groups. Some people will get it regardless of what others say. As they should. It’s their right to decide what to do with their money. That said, I don’t think VIP is worth the six figure price tag. PIC is a way to get VIP cheap. One guy did two PICs enrolled when he bought 192,000 to go Gold. I believe that was around $25,000 total for Gold which retails for $140,000 to $175,000. Obviously is someone doesn’t care about VIP, Club Pass, and Plus Partners, the upfront costs are definitely not worth it. Resale would be way better.


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I'm probably the "someone else" in this scenario. I picked up two non-Wyndham weeks based RCI integrated timeshares, each with a rebate coming back to me for $200 on Ebay from J&JTimeshare and Sumday (both are reputable timeshare resale firms doing business on eBay). Those PICs are 3+ bedroom units that give me 508k credit toward VIP status (automatic Silver in other words). You can then convert those into Wyndham points on an annual basis by trading your weeks based timeshares into RCI 9+ months ahead of the timeshare week, after which Wyndham will validate the RCI transfer and then credit your Wyndham accounts with 508k points (for a fee of $89.00 per PIC per year that is).

Any PIC transaction requires a developer points purchase. Specific to the Wyndham contract costs, I had two choices, keeping in mind we wanted at least VIP Gold. Either a 192k/192k contract for around 25k (this includes a $1000 rebate) for around $130/1000 points, or two 105k/295k contracts for around $134/1000 points (includes a $500 rebate per contract). I went with the latter option because that option gives us temporary Platinum VIP for two years, after which we will drop back down to VIP Gold. We also pick up 590k bonus points compared to 192k bonus points obviously. Two years from now we will perform analysis on how much we used the Platinum benefits and make a decision on whether or not to pursue another developer/piggyback contract purchase to go permanent platinum VIP.

Resale contract purchases never count toward VIP benefit status. I purchased directly from Wyndham corporate telesales - the only way to go IMHO. Stay away from the resort sales staff as they almost always have higher pricing than corporate.

 

[HitchHiker71]

True. I should have stated that the quote was coming from telesales and not the resorts. So, let’s say instead we go with the 192,000 quote for $25k because there’s a bigger discount on that one. They got charged $133 per 1,000 points. That’s a little over $81,000 at that rate. Still. Far cry from $81,000. Most people buy at the resorts anyway, so I normally use the resort rates. The guy at the resort told me the going rate was $250 per 1,000 but I think it went up a few dollar. Obviously that’s initial price quote and not what you get after four hours of haggling. Even if he charged the full rate of that 49,000 points, that buy in would have been $12k and not $16k that you originally quoted for 49,000 points. Where did you get the $16k from?


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Best rate I could get at a resort when we initially purchased (and subsequently rescinded) was $145/1000 points for a 200k/300k contract and $155/1000 points for a 126k/174k contract. That was after hours of haggling literally. With corporate telesales I started at rates lower than that in comparison. Since corporate telesales is inside sales as opposed to outside sales, the haggling really isn't possible - they pretty much start out with the better pricing as a result. Much preferred from my perspective - I can't stand the haggling process and all of the games outside sales reps play. Some people don't mind the games and haggling though, so YMMV. That said, I've also heard some not so great stories even from inside sales - so no guarantees. PM myself or Richelle if you would like a direct referral to an inside rep that we used that treats people well and takes the approach I've outlined here.

 

[paxsarah]

Even if he charged the full rate of that 49,000 points, that buy in would have been $12k and not $16k that you originally quoted for 49,000 points. Where did you get the $16k from?

You seemed to be responding to me in the first part of your post, but this seems to be responding to a different post from @skotrla, not me. I just didn't want it to get lost.

 

[Richelle]

You seemed to be responding to me in the first part of your post, but this seems to be responding to a different post from @skotrla, not me.

Sorry, you’re right. You were not the one with the $16k quote. I’ll edit.


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[Richelle]

So when I bought Star Island I thought it was Wyndham but was told my section wasn’t...now with this PIC approach even though I get no Wyndham benefit at Star Island it can’t be PIC either.
Sounds so wrong it must be right.

I can ask my sales rep. What is the resort system? Mine is Vacation Villages Resort, which is in the RCI network.


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[grab]

I can ask my sales rep. What is the resort system?

Thanks

 

[Richelle]

I'm probably the "someone else" in this scenario. I picked up two non-Wyndham weeks based RCI integrated timeshares, each with a rebate coming back to me for $200 on Ebay from J&JTimeshare and Sumday (both are reputable timeshare resale firms doing business on eBay). Those PICs are 3+ bedroom units that give me 508k credit toward VIP status (automatic Silver in other words). You can then convert those into Wyndham points on an annual basis by trading your weeks based timeshares into RCI 9+ months ahead of the timeshare week, after which Wyndham will validate the RCI transfer and then credit your Wyndham accounts with 508k points.

Any PIC transaction requires a developer points purchase. Specific to the Wyndham contract costs, I had two choices, keeping in mind we wanted at least VIP Gold. Either a 192k/192k contract for around 25k (this includes a $1000 rebate) for around $130/1000 points, or two 105k/295k contracts for around $134/1000 points (includes a $500 rebate per contract). I went with the latter option because that option gives us temporary Platinum VIP for two years, after which we will drop back down to VIP Gold. We also pick up 590k bonus points compared to 192k bonus points obviously. Two years from now we will perform analysis on how much we used the Platinum benefits and make a decision on whether or not to pursue another developer/piggyback contract purchase to go permanent platinum VIP.

Resale contract purchases never count toward VIP benefit status. I purchased directly from Wyndham corporate telesales - the only way to go IMHO. Stay away from the resort sales staff as they almost always have higher pricing than corporate.

You were but I was trying to respect your privacy. Lol

 

[Richelle]

Thanks

I know I sent you a PM about this, but I wanted to post it publicly, in case someone else had the same question. There are part of Star Island that are managed by Wyndham and other parts managed by Interval International. Some parts are not managed by either of those. If it's neither of those, and tradeable in RCI, then it qualifies. Some sales people are not as familiar with PIC as others, and may assume since Star island is in Wyndham's list of resorts that it doesn't qualify. However, as you mentioned yourself, not all of it is Wyndham. So when you talk to a sales person, you have to let them know your unit is not managed by Wyndham or Interval international, and is tradeable through RCI. If they seem unsure, ask them to talk to someone more familiar with the system. I can put them in contact with someone in the Orlando office who knows such a person.

 

[skotrla]

Minimum buy to enroll one PIC is 49,000, so

$12,000 developer+$28= $12,028 for a total of 303,000 points.

Retail cost of 303,000 points is $60,000 to $75,000

I wasn't suggesting that it's not a better deal than retail, just that you aren't getting the points for $28. It's like Buy 1 Get 1 free sales - you get an effective 50% discount on each and not a 100% discount on the second one.

-Scott

 

[Richelle]

I wasn't suggesting that it's not a better deal than retail, just that you aren't getting the points for $28. It's like Buy 1 Get 1 free sales - you get an effective 50% discount on each and not a 100% discount on the second one.

-Scott

a 70% discount, but "point" taken. Ha!

 

[grab]

There are parts of Star Island that are managed by Wyndham and other parts managed by Interval International. Some parts are not managed by either of those. If it's neither of those, and tradeable in RCI, then it qualifies. Some sales people are not as familiar with PIC as others, and may assume since Star island is in Wyndham's list of resorts that it doesn't qualify. However, as you mentioned yourself, not all of it is Wyndham. So when you talk to a sales person, you have to let them know your unit is not managed by Wyndham or Interval international, and is tradeable through RCI. If they seem unsure, ask them to talk to someone more familiar with the system. I can put them in contact with someone in the Orlando office who knows such a person.

I just spoke with Star Island. All points that are RCI at Star Island are Wyndham based and all points that are not Wyndham are only affiliated with Interval International.

So nothing at Star Island can be PIC for Wyndham.

Bummer as I thought that would be the best option for my week 7 & 8.

 

[Silverdollar]

Is there a post that explains all of the acronyms? I was in a similar situation until today when we sent our rescision letter. What is PIC, specifically?

Thanks!

I started a thread late last year entitled, "Let's Help Our Newest Members" and Ron did a great job explaining a lot of the acronyms. Check it out at

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/lets-help-our-newest-members.265412/

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[BibbityBoppity]

I just spoke with Star Island. All points that are RCI at Star Island are Wyndham based and all points that are not Wyndham are only affiliated with Interval International.

So nothing at Star Island can be PIC for Wyndham.

Bummer as I thought that would be the best option for my week 7 & 8.

If your weeks are in weeks, not converted to points, not traded through II but RCI only, then those weeks can be PIC’d. I specifically asked this question a few days ago at work. The answer is yes.


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