Anyone have a surprise contact from 23 and Me or Ancestry.com DNA test?

[Glynda]

WaikikiFirst said:
wait, wait, wait, they do this? Well, my interest in any of those services just went from zero to deeply negative.
Is it optional to let them send your name around if you pay for the test?

No.

Here's the best part -- your upstream and downstream relatives can wreck your privacy without your knowledge or consent. On one hand, it's great that old rape cases are finally being solved. (And sayonara to those guys.) On the other hand, the fifth amendment may as well no longer exist. And we have a SCOTUS which doesn't much care.

On most sites it is optional to prevent others from seeing your information. One can set DNA site settings to private. Your DNA, matches, ethnicity and family tree, should you build one, can all be set so that only you see them. You can invite individual people to view your private tree. You can also choose a screen name that is non-identifying.

 

[geist1223]

No.

Here's the best part -- your upstream and downstream relatives can wreck your privacy without your knowledge or consent. On one hand, it's great that old rape cases are finally being solved. (And sayonara to those guys.) On the other hand, the fifth amendment may as well no longer exist. And we have a SCOTUS which doesn't much care.

I do not understand your reference to the 5th Amendment. I do know the language and history of the 5th Amendment. I do not know how in some wild a** way it applies.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

No.

Here's the best part -- your upstream and downstream relatives can wreck your privacy without your knowledge or consent. On one hand, it's great that old rape cases are finally being solved. (And sayonara to those guys.) On the other hand, the fifth amendment may as well no longer exist. And we have a SCOTUS which doesn't much care.

No more so or less so than having your fingerprints taken for, say, employment.

 

[VacationForever]

No more so or less so than having your fingerprints taken for, say, employment.

You cannot trace your blood relatives through fingerprints. DNA is far more intrusive.

 

[Glynda]

I wasn't illegitimate, my parents were married, and my mom was very young, and my father was also young. They were all farmers. Back in late 1950's, men seemed to walk out on their kids without paying child support. My mom remarried and he voluntarily gave up his rights as a father. My dad was the only dad I knew after the age of four.

I do have vague memories of my father, and there was a time he came to our house and brought me some toys, which was probably just before the adoption was final. I just remembered a nice man and then put it together a few years later, when my grandma invited my paternal grandmother to the farm for a visit to see me. My aunt was 2.5 years older than me, and so she was 11 and much wiser in the ways of the world (we laugh a lot about how she is so much older!). She told me that was my grandmother visiting and that my dad I knew as Dad adopted me. She told me my real father's name and my grandmother's name. Messed with my head. My mom was angry at my grandma. I think my grandma did the right thing.

I think your grandma did too. I always knew I was adopted. But my questions would not be answered. Eventually I felt guilty asking as it seemed to hurt my adopted mother's feelings. I always felt different. A redhead among dark brunettes.That awkwardness when nurses in doctors' offices would ask for medical history. When my mother would punish me for something, I would be thinking that my real mother would never do that. pictured her as "Glinda the Good Witch" who was out there somewhere looking for me as this was all a big mistake. Even in my teens, I looked for a red headed woman who might be her among our church members, in stores and other adult social situations. I even fantasized that my red headed dance teacher could be my birth mother. What a wake up call when I did begin to learn about her in my twenties. I wonder if I had known the circumstances as a child if I would have appreciated my adopted mother more. And if I had been told that my birth mother died when I was eleven years old, I would have stopped the looking and the fantasies.

 

[rapmarks]

On a related topic, I saw this headline recently. It may be behind a paywall, but you get the gist from the title. No huge surprise to me; I've often suspected that since paternity is mis-reported so often, and rapes under-reported, many geneology records are suspect or downright false.

DNA Tests Are Uncovering the True Prevalence of Incest

People are discovering the truth about their biological parents with DNA—and learning that incest is far more common than many think.

www.theatlantic.com

It’s funny you bring this up. My brother in law and his wife became interested in genealogy in their twenties. getting into the DAR and other groups like it is important to her. She said her biggest fear is that she will find out an ancestor is adopted as it could negate her being eligible. My husbands side can prove they are descendants of the revolutionary war participants. In fact buckmans tavern was owned by his ancestors. The minutemen met there before the war and it is a historic site.

 

[rapmarks]

If you watch any of the ancestry shows, they do find that there is a lot of claim of Native American, but in DNA analysis it rarely appears to be true.

My grandsons other grandfather was born on a Sioux reservation, his father was Caucasian and adopted. He was taken from the family and placed in a boarding school. So my grandchildren are 1/16 Sioux.

 

[ScoopKona]

I do not understand your reference to the 5th Amendment. I do know the language and history of the 5th Amendment. I do not know how in some wild a** way it applies.

DNA tests (for a certain subset of criminals) is self-incrimination. In many cases, the criminal is identified because of a relative's test. Investigators can put together a family tree based on genetic records and solve cold cases.

Nobody has to consent to the test -- a relative get tested and the criminal is prosecuted. Right now, this kind of genetic forensics catches cold cases for murders and rapists -- who tend to leave DNA. While it's great that these people are facing justice, between DNA testing and facial recognition software, we're fast approaching Privacy in Name Only. And freedom from self incrimination in name only.

 

[easyrider]

OMG, the stories ...

My son married a real "Polynesian Princess". She has her own Island. Her brother was the Oceanic martial arts Olympian. I would have thought that he would have owned the Island but their tradition is that the women own the land and the men are kept to do the chores. Their family is scattered throughout Hawaii.

I'm told that people still live on this Island so I asked if I would be able to go there. I was told it's a bad idea because I might be eaten.

Bill

 

[Glynda]

It’s funny you bring this up. My brother in law and his wife became interested in genealogy in their twenties. getting into the DAR and other groups like it is important to her. She said her biggest fear is that she will find out an ancestor is adopted as it could negate her being eligible. My husbands side can prove they are descendants of the revolutionary war participants. In fact buckmans tavern was owned by his ancestors. The minutemen met there before the war and it is a historic site.

If such groups did require a DNA test, there would be a multitude of people removed from membership rolls or ineligible to join. Women have passed off a child as being their husband's for millenniums. Family lore passed down from generation to generation and paper trails prove nothing about actual paternity.

 

[klpca]

My issue witht the DNA stuff is that insurance companies will have everyone's medical information and may someday price our insurance accordingly, or maybe even refuse to offer it at all to those with say, a breast cancer gene.

I discovered that my father in law is related to my (step) brother in law. They share a grandfather but had different grandmothers. That was weird and unexpected. When I told my FIL, he had zero interest in meeting my BIL, even though they were both at our wedding (1983) and my both BIL's kids were in the wedding. The grandfather was not well liked by my FILs family. This was discovered through regular, non-DNA research.

 

[SusanRN]

I have a friend who was adopted. He found (and subsequently visited) his birth mother and some (?) half siblings. I recall that he got a notification through Ancestry.

Our daughter-in-law found that her birth father, who had abandoned her and her mother when she was very young, had subsequently fathered another family in another state. She and a half-sister have become a good bit closer. Perhaps closer than acquaintances, but not like sisters, if you catch my drift.

So, it happens. What one does with the information is up to them.

I can see some value, especially for adoptees, to get family health history as many illnesses 'run in families'.

Jim

If someone does DNA testing through 23andme they have the option of obtaining health reports that tell them the likelihood of certain well-researched genetic conditions. I was told, for instance, that I do not have either of the BRCA 1 or 2 genetic mutations. I was pretty sure that was true, since there has not been ovarian cancer or early breast cancer in my family. Still, it was nice to see it in writing.

 

[mentalbreak]

My issue witht the DNA stuff is that insurance companies will have everyone's medical information and may someday price our insurance accordingly, or maybe even refuse to offer it at all to those with say, a breast cancer gene.

100% this. Currently in the US, health insurance plans are generally not allowed to determine eligibility or rates based on genetic testing results. But this does not apply to other types of insurance. And definitely no guarantees it doesn’t make you uninsurable down the road.

 

[SusanRN]

Anyone have any other theories as to why I don't get any info from my paternal South Chinese side of the Tree?

I'm no expert, but I'll throw this out there:
It may be an artifact of the cultural emphasis on elders needing a male heir to venerate them after death and carry on the family name. For hundreds of years emphasis has been on passing the family name [surname] through the male line. That's one reason China had such a big problem with the "one child" policy after the cultural revolution. Couples would choose to abort a female fetus, place the newborn girl in an orphanage (10,000 were adopted in the U.S.), or even kill it [infanticide]. The policy led to a disparity of 3-4% in the numbers of male and female children, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. Doesn't sound like much, but across a million births, it's a lot.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/one-child-policy/Consequences-of-Chinas-one-child-policy [not behind a paywall]

I was lucky enough to spend three weeks in China in 2005 with a group sponsored by a local college. I recall that in public parks in each of the major cities we visited we would see 50 or more older women sitting on the grass with a photograph of a young man and what I was told was a biography highlighting his marriage qualifications -- education, job, etc. These were men who had not found brides because of the disparity in the male/female ratio. Their mothers were desperate for them to marry and produce offspring.

I recall reading an article a couple of years ago about how a Chinese family with a particular last name I don't recall, now numbering in the many hundreds, had been gathering at an alter in the side of a mountain to venerate their ancestors for 400 years. They knew they were all related because they all had the same last name passed through the male line.
With such an emphasis on the male surname, perhaps families in China feel no need to search through DNA.

 

[SusanRN]

Not 100% sure what you mean by "South Chinese".

23and me breaks down how closely one is related to people from different parts of each country. Apparently Billymach's relative was from the southern part of China.
They show you a map with the areas of ancestry shaded, I have always had an interest in history and find this interesting, but I suppose some people wouldn't care. BTW, I no longer pay for membership, but I still have access to this information.

For instance, this is a small portion of my result for "French and German" ancestry:
French Low Countries Very Close
Match Confidence level for Zeeland and South Holland: Highly Likely Match
Zeeland and South Holland Very Close
Match Confidence level for Netherlands: Highly Likely Match
Netherlands Country Match
Match Confidence level for Belgium: Possible Match
Belgium Country Match
Match Confidence level for Artois and French Flanders: Not Detected
Artois and French Flanders Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Baden-Württemberg and Bavarian Swabia: Not Detected
Baden-Württemberg and Bavarian Swabia Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Bernese Alps and Central Swiss Plateau: Not Detected
Bernese Alps and Central Swiss Plateau Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Black Forest: Not Detected
Black Forest Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Brittany: Not Detected
Brittany Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Caen, Upper Normandy and Pas-de-Calais: Not Detected
Caen, Upper Normandy and Pas-de-Calais Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Carnic and Gailtal Alps: Not Detected
Carnic and Gailtal Alps Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Central Brittany: Not Detected
Central Brittany Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Central East Netherlands: Not Detected
Central East Netherlands Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Central Swabia: Not Detected
Central Swabia Not Detected
Match Confidence level for Corsica and Southeastern France: Not Detected
Corsica and Southeastern France Not Detected

 

[VacationForever]

I'm no expert, but I'll throw this out there:
It may be an artifact of the cultural emphasis on elders needing a male heir to venerate them after death and carry on the family name. For hundreds of years emphasis has been on passing the family name [surname] through the male line. That's one reason China had such a big problem with the "one child" policy after the cultural revolution. Couples would choose to abort a female fetus, place the newborn girl in an orphanage (10,000 were adopted in the U.S.), or even kill it [infanticide]. The policy led to a disparity of 3-4% in the numbers of male and female children, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. Doesn't sound like much, but across a million births, it's a lot.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/one-child-policy/Consequences-of-Chinas-one-child-policy [not behind a paywall]

I was lucky enough to spend three weeks in China in 2005 with a group sponsored by a local college. I recall that in public parks in each of the major cities we visited we would see 50 or more older women sitting on the grass with a photograph of a young man and what I was told was a biography highlighting his marriage qualifications -- education, job, etc. These were men who had not found brides because of the disparity in the male/female ratio. Their mothers were desperate for them to marry and produce offspring.

I recall reading an article a couple of years ago about how a Chinese family with a particular last name I don't recall, now numbering in the many hundreds, had been gathering at an alter in the side of a mountain to venerate their ancestors for 400 years. They knew they were all related because they all had the same last name passed through the male line.
With such an emphasis on the male surname, perhaps families in China feel no need to search through DNA.

China certainly has a significant disparity between male to female ratio due to the one child policy. However, preference of having a male offspring to carry on the family surname is not unique to the Chinese culture.

Also, having the same surname in Chinese culture is no different from whether you are a Smith, Cunningham or Johnson.

Asians are likely to be less obsessed or curious about their DNA. Maybe in another decade they will eventually be caught up to the benefits of genetic testings and curiosity about their genealogy.

 

[dougp26364]

WaikikiFirst said:
wait, wait, wait, they do this? Well, my interest in any of those services just went from zero to deeply negative.
Is it optional to let them send your name around if you pay for the test?




On most sites it is optional to prevent others from seeing your information. One can set DNA site settings to private. Your DNA, matches, ethnicity and family tree, should you build one, can all be set so that only you see them. You can invite individual people to view your private tree. You can also choose a screen name that is non-identifying.

The optional part has kept me from figuring out how most of my matches fall into place. I believe the worry is more about security than privacy options. I was recently notified of a security breach with my information being stolen and then a few weeks later notified my SS number, name, addresss, phone # and other sensitive data was found on the dark web. I don’t trust any site to keep my personal information personal. I can understand peoples worry about putting their DNA on any private web site, even with privacy guarantees and options to keep your privacy when they read frequently about another data breach and stolen information that can lead to identity theft.

Just because it’s unlikely doesn’t mean it’s 100% guaranteed private.

In my case, if my matches didn’t have their trees looked down so tight, I might be able to at least trace my biological history. One tree has just enough information that I believe I found my parents, and that my birth mother passed in 1997. Unfortunately getting anyone to respond has been nearly impossible and the one who did, the DIL of my strongest match, has gone radio silent after saying she’d send her a message and get back to me. It’s only been a month. I’m sure I’m not the highest priority, then again I may not be a priority at all. Oh well.

 

[Janann]

When my daughter was an undergrad in a scientific major, one of her classes spent several days analyzing the 23andme methodology, including the validity and reliability. The short answer at the end of the week was that 23andme is unreliable.

If you are given news about a likely future disease, consider submitting a sample a second time. Even then, the results could still come back with a false positive.

 

[Glynda]

If someone does DNA testing through 23andme they have the option of obtaining health reports that tell them the likelihood of certain well-researched genetic conditions. I was told, for instance, that I do not have either of the BRCA 1 or 2 genetic mutations. I was pretty sure that was true, since there has not been ovarian cancer or early breast cancer in my family. Still, it was nice to see it in writing.

For me too. However, I have two friends who do not have the variant for BRCA 1 or 2 who have had breast cancer so it worries me that some who get that verification will be less vigilant about getting mammograms.

 

[Glynda]

The optional part has kept me from figuring out how most of my matches fall into place. I believe the worry is more about security than privacy options. I was recently notified of a security breach with my information being stolen and then a few weeks later notified my SS number, name, addresss, phone # and other sensitive data was found on the dark web. I don’t trust any site to keep my personal information personal. I can understand peoples worry about putting their DNA on any private web site, even with privacy guarantees and options to keep your privacy when they read frequently about another data breach and stolen information that can lead to identity theft.

Just because it’s unlikely doesn’t mean it’s 100% guaranteed private.

In my case, if my matches didn’t have their trees looked down so tight, I might be able to at least trace my biological history. One tree has just enough information that I believe I found my parents, and that my birth mother passed in 1997. Unfortunately getting anyone to respond has been nearly impossible and the one who did, the DIL of my strongest match, has gone radio silent after saying she’d send her a message and get back to me. It’s only been a month. I’m sure I’m not the highest priority, then again I may not be a priority at all. Oh well.

That's the trade-off. If you set to private, your matches can't see you as a match. But neither can you see them. And it's frustrating that even when you can see a match, they may have opted to have their tree private. You can search a surname and see the matches who have that surname in their tree, even if it is a private tree, but in the case of a private tree you can not view the tree.

Genealogists advise that you not contact a match right away. Take screen shots of your matches in common, cMs, ethnicity shared, tree, etc. as when you do contact them they may go private or delete their accounts. Check them out on Google, Facebook, Free people searches, etc. When you do message them, keep it brief and don't mention adoption in your first message. Just something about "I see we are predicted to be 2nd cousins. Can you help me understand how?" A lot of people don't respond. One reason is the messaging service on Ancestry can be flawed. Messages can go to junk mail and some don't even notice the small icon is lit when they are using the service. Another is that some people test only because they are interested in learning/confirming their ethnicities or building their paper records family tree. Some don't know the answer so don't bother to respond. Some stop responding when they learn you are adopted. But don't stop trying. Occasionally someone will respond and it may be the one you need.

Have you made a floating tree with the possible birth parents in it and researched the hints that Ancestry provides and also the search function that you can run on them and go through? Building your matches trees can also help you connect them to your's.

 

[mentalbreak]

For me too. However, I have two friends who do not have the variant for BRCA 1 or 2 who have had breast cancer so it worries me that some who get that verification will be less vigilant about getting mammograms.

There are a number of genetic mutations that increase the risk for breast cancer. I’m glad that BRCA1 and BRCA2 are discussed, but agree that knowing you do not have either of those could change screening behaviors.
And of course breast cancer occurs without any genetic mutations as well (at least no known link, likely others will be identified down the road).

 

[Glynda]

The optional part has kept me from figuring out how most of my matches fall into place. I believe the worry is more about security than privacy options. I was recently notified of a security breach with my information being stolen and then a few weeks later notified my SS number, name, addresss, phone # and other sensitive data was found on the dark web. I don’t trust any site to keep my personal information personal. I can understand peoples worry about putting their DNA on any private web site, even with privacy guarantees and options to keep your privacy when they read frequently about another data breach and stolen information that can lead to identity theft.

Just because it’s unlikely doesn’t mean it’s 100% guaranteed private.

In my case, if my matches didn’t have their trees looked down so tight, I might be able to at least trace my biological history. One tree has just enough information that I believe I found my parents, and that my birth mother passed in 1997. Unfortunately getting anyone to respond has been nearly impossible and the one who did, the DIL of my strongest match, has gone radio silent after saying she’d send her a message and get back to me. It’s only been a month. I’m sure I’m not the highest priority, then again I may not be a priority at all. Oh well.

I don't know if you are familiar with the genetic genealogist CeCe Moore. CeCe Moore She does research for the PBS program "Finding Your Roots." and is partnered with Paradon in solving criminal cold cases. She has an occasional TV program of her own. CeCe formed a Facebook Group named DNA Detectives. A great deal can be learned about understanding DNA and searching there. It is a very active site and moves quickly. I suppose it was there that I learned that there is "nothing new under the sun" when it comes to human nature and perhaps have become a bit jaded, or at least no longer surprised, by the stories members tell. Since CeCe can't help everyone, the site offers volunteer DNA Search Angels. There is a file on how to request one.

 

[rapmarks]

When my daughter was an undergrad in a scientific major, one of her classes spent several days analyzing the 23andme methodology, including the validity and reliability. The short answer at the end of the week was that 23andme is unreliable.

If you are given news about a likely future disease, consider submitting a sample a second time. Even then, the results could still come back with a false positive.

For my sister and children, 23 and me reported ancestry very accurately . Not only correct but actually correctly identified the county in Ireland and the region in Italy of ancestors.
some time back Ancestry.com gave totally false report on my niece. She redid ith 23 and me and came back with information that was much more accurate.
as far as health, they predicted my daughter had high likelihood of Alzheimer’s,which is scary because her father, grandmother and great grandmother all had it.

 

[tombanjo]

23 and me indicated I was 52% neanderthal, which some have said is an underestimate.

 

[Glynda]

When my daughter was an undergrad in a scientific major, one of her classes spent several days analyzing the 23andme methodology, including the validity and reliability. The short answer at the end of the week was that 23andme is unreliable.

If you are given news about a likely future disease, consider submitting a sample a second time. Even then, the results could still come back with a false positive.

For my sister and children, 23 and me reported ancestry very accurately . Not only correct but actually correctly identified the county in Ireland and the region in Italy of ancestors.
some time back Ancestry.com gave totally false report on my niece. She redid ith 23 and me and came back with information that was much more accurate.
as far as health, they predicted my daughter had high likelihood of Alzheimer’s,which is scary because her father, grandmother and great grandmother all had it.

Interesting. Ancestry has the largest database and is said to be the most accurate. Mine, and those of my close maternal matches, seems to be.