2024 Maintenance Fees DISCUSSION THREAD

[vacationtime1]

How much would currently cost what you own 1 WKORV-OF (Maui) WKV x2 (Scottsdale) bought from the developer? Less than $200k?
Additionally, I think the 3 deeds convert to about 16,300 Abound points. If you were to buy today 16,300 points from the developer (which is what they offer, not the deeds you own), at $15 pp that means $240,000 upfront and for 16,300 Abound points (at $0.78748 pp) you would pay $12,835 dollars in MF (2024). How does the "value proposition" sound for you with these numbers? You can split it individually per deed if you find more "value" that way.

How is my math wrong? Show me how your math is better. Even if we ignore the developer's prices today (which is what we're actually discussing), can you still ignore the fact that if you had invested $30,000 during the Great Recession, you could have multiple times that amount now?

The "value proposition" discussion was whether deeded legacy weeks still have value given the increases in MF's. You responded by arguing that purchasing points from the developer is absurdly expensive -- a concept with which I agree completely. You are comparing apples to oranges.

But given your obvious talent in manipulating numbers to get to the conclusion you want, I will reiterate my suggestion in post #225 that you become a timeshare salesman. And I am done arguing with you.

 

[Eric B]

I am done arguing with you.

Welcome to the club! Used the ignore button to accomplish that months ago.

 

[bazzap]

For non US residents, has anyone seen a change in charging International Service Fees?
We have always been charged these for the weeks we own in Grand Chateau and St Kitts
(I have never really understood the justification, as all of our dealings are completed online, so no postal or telephone costs incurred by MVC)
However, for our 2024 MFs, Grand Chateau does not have this charge and although St Kitts does, we have received an email from MVC Finance saying that this should not have been included and has now been removed.

 

[Hindsite]

@bazzap nothing on my Manor Club that I have just received, but I don't have the breakdown from previous years to check if the International Service Charge was there. The history section in the MVC accounts is rubbish, unless you know a way to find the history and can tell me

 

[bazzap]

@bazzap nothing on my Manor Club that I have just received, but I don't have the breakdown from previous years to check if the International Service Charge was there. The history section in the MVC accounts is rubbish, unless you know a way to find the history and can tell me

Sadly no, I download previous statements exactly because the history section in the MVC accounts does not provide this information.

 

[timsi]

The "value proposition" discussion was whether deeded legacy weeks still have value given the increases in MF's. You responded by arguing that purchasing points from the developer is absurdly expensive -- a concept with which I agree completely. You are comparing apples to oranges.

But given your obvious talent in manipulating numbers to get to the conclusion you want, I will reiterate my suggestion in post #225 that you become a timeshare salesman. And I am done arguing with you.

It's quite amusing how my allegedly "manipulated" calculations (without you providing any indication on the "manipulation" of course) apparently arrive at the same verdict as yours, which is that the developer's proposal lacks any semblance of value. Regrettably, I have no intention of bending the rules and providing you with personal advice on your future career aspirations.

 

[VacationForever]

How much would currently cost what you own 1 WKORV-OF (Maui) WKV x2 (Scottsdale) bought from the developer? Less than $200k?
Additionally, I think the 3 deeds convert to about 16,300 Abound points. If you were to buy today 16,300 points from the developer (which is what they offer, not the deeds you own), at $15 pp that means $240,000 upfront and for 16,300 Abound points (at $0.78748 pp) you would pay $12,835 dollars in MF (2024). How does the "value proposition" sound for you with these numbers? You can split it individually per deed if you find more "value" that way.

How is my math wrong? Show me how your math is better. Even if we ignore the developer's prices today (which is what we're actually discussing), can you still ignore the fact that if you had invested $30,000 during the Great Recession, you could have multiple times that amount now?

I bought all my Chairman's Club portfolio from Vistana/MVC directly, including all MVC ownership which were post-2010 and they cost me a total of $80K. A far cry from your $200K. My annual MF is about $11K.

 

[timsi]

I bought all my Chairman's Club portfolio from Vistana/MVC directly, including all MVC ownership which were post-2010 and they cost me a total of $80K. A far cry from your $200K. My annual MF is about $11K.

It does not apear we have a math disagreement. I always referred to the current retail cost. I maintain that the Vistana deeds you have on your profile would be a lot closer TODAY to my estimate than to 80,000 dollars

 

[VacationForever]

It does not apear we have a math disagreement. I always referred to the current retail cost. I maintain that the Vistana deeds you have on your profile would be a lot closer TODAY to my estimate than to 80,000 dollars

My MVC ownership were all bought between 2013 and 2017. They have not appreciated that much and $80K, equate to about $5.33 per point, with use of bundling.

 

[dioxide45]

My MVC ownership were all bought between 2013 and 2017. They have not appreciated that much and $80K, equate to about $5.33 per point, with use of bundling.

If you were to buy the same direct from the developer today, would it cost you $200K?

 

[VacationForever]

If you were to buy the same direct from the developer today, would it cost you $200K?

Nope. I got MVC resale weeks plus points. I won't be buying if it is $200K.

 

[dioxide45]

Nope. I got MVC resale weeks plus points. I won't be buying if it is $200K.

Mine was a theoretical question. IF you bought them full freight retail today, would they cost $200K. Perhaps that is what this yapper was alluding to?

 

[VacationForever]

Mine was a theoretical question. IF you bought them full freight retail today, would they cost $200K. Perhaps that is what this yapper was alluding to?

Ah, but there are lots of ways to bundle, including buying Spain or Caribbean MVC resorts. I think the price point of about $5.30 has been mentioned by using another week to bundle the purchase. I think to get to Chairman's Club level, one can get it done with $70K to $100K, which may include some of the Westin and Sheraton Flex products.

 

[dioxide45]

Ah, but there are lots of ways to bundle, including buying Spain or Caribbean MVC resorts. I think the price point of about $5.30 has been mentioned by using another week to bundle the purchase. I think to get to Chairman's Club level, one can get it done with $70K to $100K, which may include some of the Westin and Sheraton Flex products.

I don’t define bundling as “full freight”.

 

[VacationForever]

I don’t define bundling as “full freight”.

I do firmly believe bundling is full freight because that is what MVC sells.

 

[dioxide45]

I do firmly believe bundling is full freight because that is what MVC sells.

I am just trying to rationalize why someone may think it would cost $200K, that's all.

Also, I think the numbers down in the $5 range usually come from enrollment promos and not bundles. Enrollment promo utilizes an external resale week. That is not something MVC sells.

 

[Dean]

I am just trying to rationalize why someone may think it would cost $200K, that's all.

Also, I think the numbers down in the $5 range usually come from enrollment promos and not bundles. Enrollment promo utilizes an external resale week. That is not something MVC sells.

I haven't seen any bundles that low and can't imagine getting anywhere near close to that currently with a bundle. One might be able to get it down that low with low cost higher points properties like Vegas or by going all in for Plus/event weeks and ending up with a lot of points. Or possibly with a Tahoe Fractional but again, a lot of points. IMO the yearly fees are just as important as the per point upfront costs, possibly more so. The other variable would be for Spain if they have a special so anyone interested should look at all the options.

 

[timsi]

My MVC ownership were all bought between 2013 and 2017. They have not appreciated that much and $80K, equate to about $5.33 per point, with use of bundling.

Even today, there are indeed ways to buy cheaper, but most people are not offered these ways, because most Marriott owners do not know or understand the resale market. For example, I can requalify for my annual event and regular platinum 2BR at Lagunamar by buying an additional small Aventuras package for 15k (10k for the first contract, 5k for the second), which would bring the total cost of the bundle well below $3 a point (my cost). This is not what I was talking about, though. I was talking about the full Abound price that a majority of new owners pay today, which is around $15 a point. I think we can stop here. We've both made it clear enough what we're referring to.

 

[travelove]

I'm looking for Timber Lodge in Lake Tahoe, 2 bd every year MF for 2024. If someone can post it, I appreciate you!

[Moderator Note: Post moved from 2024 MF's sticky thread.]

 

[jmhpsu93]

First of the Orlando resorts have posted....about 17% increase for Harbour Lake...biggest jumps were in Maintenance, Income Tax, Housekeeping, and of course the icing on the cake, the Management Fee. The jump in reserves was about 15%, so not fully-funded I suppose. It's the spendiest of the Sea World Three so hopefully my Cypress and GV units will be a $100-200 cheaper.

As a bargain trader, this is becoming a little more spendy as it'll be over $1K/week even though it's enrolled.

 

[gln60]

First of the Orlando resorts have posted....about 17% increase for Harbour Lake...biggest jumps were in Maintenance, Income Tax, Housekeeping, and of course the icing on the cake, the Management Fee. The jump in reserves was about 15%, so not fully-funded I suppose. It's the spendiest of the Sea World Three so hopefully my Cypress and GV units will be a $100-200 cheaper.

As a bargain trader, this is becoming a little more spendy as it'll be over $1K/week even though it's enrolled.

100% correct…and at only 1950 Abound Points for my Gold Harbor Lake its not worth it to opt for Points…I get way more bang for the buck splitting the 2BR and getting 2 exchanges through Interval…Which I have been very successful at getting great exchanges.

 

[dioxide45]

First of the Orlando resorts have posted....about 17% increase for Harbour Lake...biggest jumps were in Maintenance, Income Tax, Housekeeping, and of course the icing on the cake, the Management Fee. The jump in reserves was about 15%, so not fully-funded I suppose. It's the spendiest of the Sea World Three so hopefully my Cypress and GV units will be a $100-200 cheaper.

As a bargain trader, this is becoming a little more spendy as it'll be over $1K/week even though it's enrolled.

Welp, this will be the last year below $2K for a week. I think these Orlando increases officially make Grand Chateau the premier resort to buy resale for trading.

 

[jmhpsu93]

Welp, this will be the last year below $2K for a week. I think these Orlando increases officially make Grand Chateau the premier resort to buy resale for trading.

Well to be fair we got them more or less for free, so it'll take a dozen years or more of $200/300 / year difference in MFs to tilt the calculus.

But, yeah.

 

[dioxide45]

Well to be fair we got them more or less for free, so it'll take a dozen years or more of $200/300 / year difference in MFs to tilt the calculus.

But, yeah.

We did pay about $7K for our MGV Gold resale. Though that was back before the market crashed. I expect resale prices to drop even more now...

 

[DeeCee]

Any word on Surfwatch?