[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[VacayKat]

That's odd because my contract , with Wyndham when I bought into points says I can declare I am going to use it

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What's the date you have to declare? My guess is that it is before it is released for inventory. But that should also be highlighted on the contract. If in fact that is not the case, then you have a clear case to sue Wyndham for breach of contract. And if you have a case then you should because it's the only way they would learn.

 

[kaljor]

I'm pretty sure that a converted fixed week only has ARP rights for that underlying week and unit. I questioned Owner Care about this when I got my first contract and that's what I was told. I've never stayed there, but I seem to remember testing it for my own knowledge and that's how it worked.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm pretty sure that a converted fixed week only has ARP rights for that underlying week and unit. I questioned Owner Care about this when I got my first contract and that's what I was told. I've never stayed there, but I seem to remember testing it for my own knowledge and that's how it worked.

I think what raygo is saying is that any VIP can book that underlying fixed week at 11 months with RARP - that at that point it’s no longer held just for you but is basically open season at 11 months (and not 10 months as is to be expected). I have no idea if that is correct or not, but I would guess if push comes to shove and the owner of that week tries to book it in the 11-10 month window, they could get Wyndham to intervene if it’s been booked by a VIP.
But honestly, if you use it every year, who waits until 10 months and a few days?

 

[scootr5]

I'm pretty sure that a converted fixed week only has ARP rights for that underlying week and unit. I questioned Owner Care about this when I got my first contract and that's what I was told. I've never stayed there, but I seem to remember testing it for my own knowledge and that's how it worked.

That is correct.

 

[raygo123]

I think what raygo is saying is that any VIP can book that underlying fixed week at 11 months with RARP - that at that point it’s no longer held just for you but is basically open season at 11 months (and not 10 months as is to be expected). I have no idea if that is correct or not, but I would guess if push comes to shove and the owner of that week tries to book it in the 11-10 month window, they could get Wyndham to intervene if it’s been booked by a VIP.
But honestly, if you use it every year, who waits until 10 months and a few days?

Yes . Also an all CWA owner will see all available participating units at 11 months. It has been verified.

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[HitchHiker71]

Units of the answer don't match the units of the question. Copy/paste might be the root cause? Think you posted elsewhere that the rental bucket in the video represented the maximum number of rental points you could use in the calendar year, which is covered in the member's directory on page 249 as being the annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts, though that is limited to the Express Reservation Window.

Fixed in the original post.


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[raygo123]

I just received the email for Wyndham owners without resale. No mention of resale points.

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[dgalati]

What's the date you have to declare? My guess is that it is before it is released for inventory. But that should also be highlighted on the contract. If in fact that is not the case, then you have a clear case to sue Wyndham for breach of contract. And if you have a case then you should because it's the only way they would learn.

Suing would be a waste of money IMHO. The only winners in a class action suit are the lawyers.

 

[dgalati]

I just received the email for Wyndham owners without resale. No mention of resale points.

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Whats that one about Ray?

 

[Manzana]

One more thing that concerns me is anything system driven as they say might retroactively assign housekeeping and transaction credits to reservations. Leaving those with points left as resale without any to use. This happened to me in a sense with GCs when I dropped from Platinum to Gold

 

[raygo123]

Whats that one about Ray?

Same email resale oowners recieved ecept it made no mention of resale

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[raygo123]

I think what raygo is saying is that any VIP can book that underlying fixed week at 11 months with RARP - that at that point it’s no longer held just for you but is basically open season at 11 months (and not 10 months as is to be expected). I have no idea if that is correct or not, but I would guess if push comes to shove and the owner of that week tries to book it in the 11-10 month window, they could get Wyndham to intervene if it’s been booked by a VIP.
But honestly, if you use it every year, who waits until 10 months and a few days?

Yes your right.

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[Jimag]

I'm with you on that one.

That sounds like a good idea to me also, but I would not hold my breath for an attractive offer.

 

[raygo123]

Yes your right.

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Its not that no one would book then. But that crosses the line. I owned a deed. It was a week converted to points. It was mine untill the tenth month. Right now there are fifty resorts in the RARP list that are also CWA. Right now CWA CAN BOOK those fifty from "ALL" CWP inventory. Using a RARP at eleven months. Will wyndham enforce the. If you own there you cannot use it there and since a CWA owns at all of them you should not be able to use a RARP only at resorts that are only deeded.

Wyndham just gave a ton of them away.

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[Jimag]

Same here. I have Christmas thru New Year and Bike Week.

Just curious, what VIP benefits are you concerned with losing on Christmas and next year reservations -- RARP maybe?

I don't think so, if they set up the system the way as a Data Modeler (yes my day job) I think they should have to. The user generates reservations and each reservations will have certain types of properties (ARP, Discounts, Upgrades) that can be flagged, and then they can check the totals points of those reservations during the booking process to check that you do not exceed the total of points that apply to VIP. It has some backend calculations to do, but only a bit more buckets than they had before. They already know which buck if the current year and which ones are saves points from previous years. So it they built the data base right, it would not be difficult. Now of course this is Wyndham's IT department, but they have the bucket of points system working fine, as far as I can tell.

Funny thing however, I have yet to get the email.

Did you check your "junk" folder?

 

[55plus]

Just curious, what VIP benefits are you concerned with losing on Christmas and next year reservations -- RARP maybe?

I'm not concerned about losing anything. Maybe I don't understand the question?

 

[Jimag]

What sent me on that tangent was "Apparently the people who this affects is VERY small." My point was that even though the rule may be targeted at a very small pool of people, I think it will necessarily affect everyone who owns a combination of store bought and resale points.

you should add: "if they they have VIP status."

 

[Eric B]

you should add: "if they they have VIP status."

If and only if Wyndham is competent enough to have addressed all of the potential unintended consequences. Currently the system allows you to PDF all of the points you have that are eligible to PDF in a single transaction. The rule set they have hinted at seems to indicate that for VIP members, you can PDF VIP-eligible points to retain that status and you can PDF non-VIP-eligible points with them retaining that status but they haven't discussed whether that is possible to do in a single transaction. They have hinted at the inability to use VIP-related transactions for non-VIP-eligible points when it comes to making reservations, which makes me suspect that you will need a separate transaction for the different point-buckets when it also comes to doing a PDF for all the eligible points in a use year. I suppose that it would be possible to set up the system to distinguish between hybrid VIP accounts and other hybrid accounts, but it would take some forethought and desire to do so and the net result would be that Wyndham would only be charging a non-VIP hybrid account owner for one PDF transaction instead of two, which would result from needing to have them broken up by buckets as VIP-eligible points and non-VIP-eligible points despite the fact that the owner is not a VIP. Net cost for such an owner could be an extra $39 for the second PDF transaction and an extra $19 for the additional reservation transaction if the owner is not careful about managing their points.

On the other hand, Wyndham might be feeling benevolent to non-VIP hybrid account holders and spend the extra time and money on setting up the software requirements as well as the development costs to get it right and avoid having any effect on those folks. I'm not holding my breath on that.

 

[Jimag]

And from what I was told- the amount of resale owners with VIP is VERY small.

Don't believe everything you hear. And, if you crunch the numbers, I think you would find that resale is still the better deal even with these changes.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Don't believe everything you hear.

I've personally never come across another resale only owner during hot tub talks. I really do think it's only like 5% of owners.

 

[HitchHiker71]

If and only if Wyndham is competent enough to have addressed all of the potential unintended consequences. Currently the system allows you to PDF all of the points you have that are eligible to PDF in a single transaction. The rule set they have hinted at seems to indicate that for VIP members, you can PDF VIP-eligible points to retain that status and you can PDF non-VIP-eligible points with them retaining that status but they haven't discussed whether that is possible to do in a single transaction. They have hinted at the inability to use VIP-related transactions for non-VIP-eligible points when it comes to making reservations, which makes me suspect that you will need a separate transaction for the different point-buckets when it also comes to doing a PDF for all the eligible points in a use year. I suppose that it would be possible to set up the system to distinguish between hybrid VIP accounts and other hybrid accounts, but it would take some forethought and desire to do so and the net result would be that Wyndham would only be charging a non-VIP hybrid account owner for one PDF transaction instead of two, which would result from needing to have them broken up by buckets as VIP-eligible points and non-VIP-eligible points despite the fact that the owner is not a VIP. Net cost for such an owner could be an extra $39 for the second PDF transaction and an extra $19 for the additional reservation transaction if the owner is not careful about managing their points.

On the other hand, Wyndham might be feeling benevolent to non-VIP hybrid account holders and spend the extra time and money on setting up the software requirements as well as the development costs to get it right and avoid having any effect on those folks. I'm not holding my breath on that.

If you watch the video provided, the points buckets are for Developer and Resale - there’s no reference to VIP or non-VIP anywhere in the buckets. Based upon what I’ve seen, I think any owner who has a hybrid account - whether VIP or non-VIP - the points buckets will exist - and any associated fee structure changes will apply equally to all hybrid accounts. I don’t believe we will see differences in how VIP vs non-VIP accounts will be managed.


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[Jimag]

Having never owned any resale points, do those contracts still get a certain number of reservations and HK credits for free, based on how many points are in the contract? If so, and you would have the ability to scrutinize which contract you pull from, this may be less of an issue for your average joe, while at the same time sticking it to the renters...

It's not free. Resale contracts entail the same maintenance fees that retail contracts do. Much of the mark-up on retail contracts goes to sales commissions and general support of the sales operation -- you know the bonus you recieve to attend a presentation and the expense of maintaining the sales office.

 

[CO skier]

If and only if Wyndham is competent enough to have addressed all of the potential unintended consequences. Currently the system allows you to PDF all of the points you have that are eligible to PDF in a single transaction. The rule set they have hinted at seems to indicate that for VIP members, you can PDF VIP-eligible points to retain that status and you can PDF non-VIP-eligible points with them retaining that status but they haven't discussed whether that is possible to do in a single transaction. They have hinted at the inability to use VIP-related transactions for non-VIP-eligible points when it comes to making reservations, which makes me suspect that you will need a separate transaction for the different point-buckets when it also comes to doing a PDF for all the eligible points in a use year.

We will not know the answer until someone tries it after mid-August. What is the possible downside? An extra $39 charge, just as if the hybrid account were being treated as two separate accounts -- one Developer points only and one resale points.

Would not someone with a hybrid account want to deposit as many non-VIP points as possible within the first 3 months of the use year and save as many VIP points as possible to PDF anytime before the end of the Use Year as plans evolve over the next 9 months? Which would have been a separate deposit anyway?

There are bigger things to worry about.

 

[CO skier]

If you watch the video provided, the points buckets are for Developer and Resale - there’s no reference to VIP or non-VIP anywhere in the buckets. Based upon what I’ve seen, I think any owner who has a hybrid account - whether VIP or non-VIP - the points buckets will exist - and any associated fee structure changes will apply equally to all hybrid accounts. I don’t believe we will see differences in how VIP vs non-VIP accounts will be managed.

As I read Eric B's post, he was referring to "VIP-eligible points" (Developer) and "non-VIP-eligible-points" (resale), not VIP vs. non-VIP accounts; i.e., he just used different terms for what you used and meant.

 

[CO skier]

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