[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[VacayKat]

BTW, I confirmed with Wyndham contacts late yesterday - the "Rental Points" bucket in the graphic and video is for your use case - it's a bucket that signifies the maximum amount of points your account can rent from Wyndham (at $12/1000 points currently).

How is that calculated? For whatever reason I didn’t know there was a max [not that I ever intended to give them $12/1000!!!!]

 

[Ty1on]

How is that calculated? For whatever reason I didn’t know there was a max [not that I ever intended to give them $12/1000!!!!]

Same here, I always thought you could only rent enough to complete the last day of a reservation. I mean if I was them, I'd rent you a trillion points at $12 if you wanted them.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Concatenating a list of follow up questions to send off to our Wyndham contacts, please post any additional questions in reply:

• If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will the points used from both buckets combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
• Will Wyndham require a separate Points Deposit Fee for VIP and non-VIP points in different buckets?
• If you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year even when you have resale points available in same use year?
• Are Wyndham Owner Care reps being trained in advance on how to answer inquiries related to these somewhat complex changes?
• Will more detailed information be provided on the rulesets used for the current use year audits?
• Will Wyndham publish recommended best practices for how to utilize the different points buckets for the impacted VIP owners?
• Will Wyndham be making any changes to how resale contracts function for reservations? For example, will resale contracts still support ARP reservations for the home resort(s)?
• Statement: “Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.” What extended timeline do VIP eligible points have (other than RARP or Margaritaville, which are mentioned elsewhere)?
• How will this change impact reservations made already in future use years?
• For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?
• What else folks???

Here's the three items I already sent and have answers on:

• Q: What does the "Rental Points" bucket in the graphics and videos refer to?
• A: Points Rental is referencing the number of points available to rent. Owners may rent up to the total amount of points owned when booking a reservation within the Express Booking window.
• Q: What is meant by the "complimentary points" reference?
• A: Complimentary Points – Additional one-time use points added into the next Use Year.
• Q: Will Wyndham allow VIP owners to utilize the Certified Exit program to feedback resale contracts that no longer can be used with VIP benefits?
• A: Wyndham Certified Exit- Yes, our team is committed to working with the owners on the best possible solutions based on their situation.
  
  
  

 

[Ty1on]

Concatenating a list of follow up questions to send off to our Wyndham contacts, please post any additional questions in reply:

• If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will the points used from both buckets combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
• Will Wyndham require a separate Points Deposit Fee for VIP and non-VIP points in different buckets?
• If you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year even when you have resale points available in same use year?
• Are Wyndham Owner Care reps being trained in advance on how to answer inquiries related to these somewhat complex changes?
• Will more detailed information be provided on the rulesets used for the current use year audits?
• Will Wyndham publish recommended best practices for how to utilize the different points buckets for the impacted VIP owners?
• Will Wyndham be making any changes to how resale contracts function for reservations? For example, will resale contracts still support ARP reservations for the home resort(s)?
• Statement: “Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.” What extended timeline do VIP eligible points have (other than RARP or Margaritaville, which are mentioned elsewhere)?
• How will this change impact reservations made already in future use years?
• For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?
• What else folks???

Here's the three items I already sent and have answers on:

• Q: What does the "Rental Points" bucket in the graphics and videos refer to?
• A: For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?
• Q: What is meant by the "complimentary points" reference?
• A: Complimentary Points – Additional one-time use points added into the next Use Year.
• Q: Will Wyndham allow VIP owners to utilize the Certified Exit program to feedback resale contracts that no longer can be used with VIP benefits?
• A: Wyndham Certified Exit- Yes, our team is committed to working with the owners on the best possible solutions based on their situation.
  
  

Will resale contracts continue to receive home resort ARP? The way they organized the points report leaves that open to question.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Will resale contracts continue to receive home resort ARP? The way they organized the points report leaves that open to question.

Already in the list but thanks!


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[Ty1on]

Already in the list but thanks!


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Yep, I just scanned right over that bullet point.

 

[VacayKat]

Concatenating a list of follow up questions to send off to our Wyndham contacts, please post any additional questions in reply:

• If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will the points used from both buckets combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
• Will Wyndham require a separate Points Deposit Fee for VIP and non-VIP points in different buckets?
• If you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year even when you have resale points available in same use year?
• Are Wyndham Owner Care reps being trained in advance on how to answer inquiries related to these somewhat complex changes?
• Will more detailed information be provided on the rulesets used for the current use year audits?
• Will Wyndham publish recommended best practices for how to utilize the different points buckets for the impacted VIP owners?
• Will Wyndham be making any changes to how resale contracts function for reservations? For example, will resale contracts still support ARP reservations for the home resort(s)?
• Statement: “Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.” What extended timeline do VIP eligible points have (other than RARP or Margaritaville, which are mentioned elsewhere)?
• How will this change impact reservations made already in future use years?
• For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?
• What else folks???

Here's the three items I already sent and have answers on:

• Q: What does the "Rental Points" bucket in the graphics and videos refer to?
• A: For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?
• Q: What is meant by the "complimentary points" reference?
• A: Complimentary Points – Additional one-time use points added into the next Use Year.
• Q: Will Wyndham allow VIP owners to utilize the Certified Exit program to feedback resale contracts that no longer can be used with VIP benefits?
• A: Wyndham Certified Exit- Yes, our team is committed to working with the owners on the best possible solutions based on their situation.

Many of these questions apply to non VIP as well - for e.g. The first two could be added to:
1. Say you have a resale and a developer bucket of CWA if you use from both buckets how does that work for ARP
2. Will each bucket be separate transactions for depositing points?
3. Will it be an account approach for borrowing from future years or will it be a bucket approach?

new question:
1. Will this be the last resale change for the foreseeable future? Do you intend to inform non-VIP folks of the change as well, or have you?
2. If owners do not agree with how you allocate their current year vacation reservations to the buckets, will you work with them or are your decisions final? Will you offer free transactions for any reservations that need to be canceled/rebooked/changed based on the new system?
3. Will there be any additional HK and RT allotted to owners to ensure account wholeness through the rest of the use year?
4. When do you recommend owners reach out for help? Before or after the go-live date?
5. When will the owner book be updated to reflect all the changes?
6. Will sales be informed of the changes? What are the repercussions to sales people who fail to update their tactics to reflect current rules?

i’m sure I’ll have more, lol

edited to add:
one more question: What, if any effect, does this have for things like using outrigger banked points in future years to book longer stays at outrigger locations than yearly contract has. So e.g. if you bank all outrigger account points from 2021 to 2022 can you book ALL those points at outrigger in 2022. Also do buckets remain segregated when banking? What effect, if any, does making buckets have on folks with no resale points.

 

[chapjim]

What an amazing bargain!

Information I need to have at my fingertips! You never know when the urge will strike to buy points at $12/1,000.

 

[dgalati]

Information I need to have at my fingertips! You never know when the urge will strike to buy points at $12/1,000.

If only Wyndham would pay to take back deeds at the same $12/1000.

 

[raygo123]

I don't believe you understand correctly, or I don't understand your explanation correctly.

Say I own a CWA contract and I want to book a resort 11 months out. Say at Bonnet Creek.

The reservation dates I can see are limited to inventory that belongs in the CWA trust. Period. I won't see anything else. I can't see a deeded resort "Select" inventory because it isn't available to me outside standard reservation period.

Now say Joe owns at Bonnet Creek. He wants to make a reservation at 11 months out. He can see any inventory at Bonnet Creek that is not deeded to the CWA trust. He won't see any inventory that IS deeded to CWA Trust.

The reason for this is that if I own in CWA and CWA is a trust of deeds, I don't have ARP rights to anything but what is in my trust, just like Joe has no ARP rights to anything but his deeded inventory pool. That's how ARP works, you get a jump in reservations on the pool in which you own. Exceptions would be like Myrtle Beach where several reports pool together for ARP. If it wasn't set up this way, CWA owners would bully a lot of owners at smaller high demand resorts that bought into those resorts specifically for the ARP to be able to get the times they wanted. Imagine owning and paying high maintenance fees at South Shore to get a good shot at a ski week ARP, just to be overrun by a Black Friday mob of CWA owners on the morning of 13 months out....

At ten months, I and Joe will both see all available inventory at Bonnet Creek, because now it is beyond ARP protection so all inventory is openly available.

A VIP who is all CWA will see ALL CWP inventory available that participate in the RARP. It crosses over the trust. In fact , to quote the new term, all qualifying VIP points can be used. That includes deposit forward retail points. It used to include resale. It turns the whole ARP period into a free for all!

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[Ty1on]

A VIP who is all CWA will see ALL CWP inventory available that participate in the RARP. It crosses over the trust. In fact , to quote the new term, all qualifying VIP points can be used. That includes deposit forward retail points. It used to include resale. It turns the whole ARP period into a free for all!

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Hold on, you're talking VIP RARP certificates.

A: Those are VIP benefits. You get 5 per year if you are a founder, down to one for a Bronze. And that's at 11 months, after ARP has had a two month shot at it.
B: They are completely unrelated to the fact that you own in CWA. You could own at Bentley Brook and still use the RARP certificate in the same resorts.
C: How does excluding resale turn the whole ARP period into a free-for-all?

 

[Eric B]

• Q: What does the "Rental Points" bucket in the graphics and videos refer to?
• A: For hybrid VIP owners that hold both retail and resale contracts. Will we receive separate dedicated GCs, HKs, and RTs for our resale contract points? For example, as a VIPG owner, I receive 10 complimentary GCs today. Will I receive the traditional two GCs and associated amount of HKs and RTs for my resale bucket points, in addition to the complimentary VIPG GCs I already am entitled to? Will the HKs and RTs round up or down if the points don't exactly match the 77k and 70k thresholds?

Units of the answer don't match the units of the question. Copy/paste might be the root cause? Think you posted elsewhere that the rental bucket in the video represented the maximum number of rental points you could use in the calendar year, which is covered in the member's directory on page 249 as being the annual ownership allocation excluding points associated with Bonus and PIC contracts, though that is limited to the Express Reservation Window.

 

[raygo123]

Hold on, you're talking VIP RARP certificates.

A: Those are VIP benefits. You get 5 per year if you are a founder, down to one for a Bronze. And that's at 11 months, after ARP has had a two month shot at it.
B: They are completely unrelated to the fact that you own in CWA. You could own at Bentley Brook and still use the RARP certificate in the same resorts.
C: How does excluding resale turn the whole ARP period into a free-for-all?

It doesn't. But what does occur is every VIP can cross over to all CWP resorts that participate. Approximately 50 deeded and CWA resorts.

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[Ty1on]

It doesn't. But what does occur is every VIP can cross over to all CWP resorts that participate. Approximately 50 deeded and CWA resorts.

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At 11 months, 2 months into those resorts' ARP period. Still trying to understand the crisis here.

I would say that if I could find a single case example of the developer coopting the privileges of its non-VIP members to favor its VIP members, this would be the one.

 

[raygo123]

At 11 months, 2 months into those resorts' ARP period. Still trying to understand the crisis here.

Do you own deeds?

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[Ty1on]

Do you own deeds?

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Of course I do.

 

[Eric B]

Is it possible that VIP RARP is satisfied using inventory owned by the developer? Thought that was what was used for all the VIP benefits.

 

[raygo123]

At 11 months, 2 months into those resorts' ARP period. Still trying to understand the crisis here.

Say I own a deed at a very popular resort that participates in RARP. I book every year at 10 months and a few days. This time a new VIP with 300,000 points used a RARP BOOKED YOUR WEEK! Two days before.

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[Ty1on]

Is it possible that VIP RARP is satisfied using inventory owned by the developer? Thought that was what was used for all the VIP benefits.

I was wondering the same thing. I don't think there is any way we could ever find that one out, because it would entail ensuring that there is enough developer inventory to cover all RARP reservations and that inventory not otherwise utilized until after the 10 month mark.

 

[Ty1on]

Say I own a deed at a very popular resort that participates in RARP. I book every year at 10 months and a few days. This time a new VIP with 300,000 points used a RARP BOOKED YOUR WEEK! Two days before.

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If you book every year at 10 months and a few days, you are [not using your advantage as an owner]. You know you stay there every year and should book at 13 months.

 

[VacayKat]

Say I own a deed at a very popular resort that participates in RARP. I book every year at 10 months and a few days. This time a new VIP with 300,000 points used a RARP BOOKED YOUR WEEK! Two days before.

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So I guess the question is... if you want a certain week that you believe to be your week, are you even talking about a points based system at this point? The simple fact is, if one owns a points based timeshare, they don't have the right to any week or even any reservation.

The main point I'd like to make though, is not every resort allows RARP, and frankly, I imagine that for most years, most VIP have little interest in RARP to your certain resort at your certain week.
If you're finding you keep getting beaten out for a certain week at the resort you have ARP at, as in you are unable to get any reservation, then I think there is a problem with the actual inventory available at the resort. Can't imagine at your resort having a VIP eligible to book at 13 months out, the same ARP you'd have, is actually as problematic as you are suggesting. But if that's a problem you've been having with booking a place, I think a lot of us would be more than willing to help you figure out how to get a reservation at the resort. I'm sure no VIP would want someone who has an ARP to miss out on their booking opportunities. In fact, I'd argue most of us think we're in it together and want you to have a great vacation too.

 

[raygo123]

So I guess the question is... if you want a certain week that you believe to be your week, are you even talking about a points based system at this point? The simple fact is, if one owns a points based timeshare, they don't have the right to any week or even any reservation.

The main point I'd like to make though, is not every resort allows RARP, and frankly, I imagine that for most years, most VIP have little interest in RARP to your certain resort at your certain week.
If you're finding you keep getting beaten out for a certain week at the resort you have ARP at, as in you are unable to get any reservation, then I think there is a problem with the actual inventory available at the resort. Can't imagine at your resort having a VIP eligible to book at 13 months out, the same ARP you'd have, is actually as problematic as you are suggesting. But if that's a problem you've been having with booking a place, I think a lot of us would be more than willing to help you figure out how to get a reservation at the resort. I'm sure no VIP would want someone who has an ARP to miss out on their booking opportunities. In fact, I'd argue most of us think we're in it together and want you to have a great vacation too.

Have you read your deed?there are things Wyndham can't touch. Even when converted to points.

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[paxsarah]

I book every year at 10 months and a few days.

You do realize how silly this sounds, right? Who does this?

 

[VacayKat]

Have you read your deed?there are things Wyndham can't touch. Even when converted to points.

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Yes, when converted to points, you give up your rights to use a certain week. That's the trade off.
If rather what you're saying is that you have not converted it to points then you are correct, there is no way anyone else could book your unit, during your week because it's not in the system. You've already got the reservation, you don't have to book it.

 

[raygo123]

Yes, when converted to points, you give up your rights to use a certain week. That's the trade off.
If rather what you're saying is that you have not converted it to points then you are correct, there is no way anyone else could book your unit, during your week because it's not in the system. You've already got the reservation, you don't have to book it.

That's odd because my contract , with Wyndham when I bought into points says I can declare I am going to use it

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