2015 Program Changes [merged]

[vacationhopeful]

Here is another QUESTION:

Myrtle Beach Resorts' Regional ARP --- if the 10 unit limit applies to ALL the those summer weeks (say July 4th week).... that could take a BIG hit on those owners who rent.

Are there even any TUGGER/owners who do a large rental presence in that area?

And the Holiday/Spring Break weeks at Bonnet Creek .... will those owners go after LARGER units? Or stick with their bread & butter 2bdr units with a upgrade from the 1bdr?

 

[Ty1on]

Here is another QUESTION:

Myrtle Beach Resorts' Regional ARP --- if the 10 unit limit applies to ALL the those summer weeks (say July 4th week).... that could take a BIG hit on those owners who rent.

Are there even any TUGGER/owners who do a large rental presence in that area?

And the Holiday/Spring Break weeks at Bonnet Creek .... will those owners go after LARGER units? Or stick with their bread & butter 2bdr units with a upgrade from the 1bdr?

Is there really any doubt that this move is targeting renters?

 

[antjmar]

My wife (the lawyer) goes, "who they he!! do they think they are to tell us how to use our points? I don't care if we don't have enough points to book 10 at a time."

Me, I think it's good for the standpoint of people who just wan't to book some simple holiday travel without all the hassle. Ron, has a nitch, New Orleans. But the 40-50 rooms at Christmas at all the Florida locations is a bit excessive.

I agree with you and your wife, it may be 10 at a time today (which is only 5 units if doing the cancel and upgrade trick), but next year it may be 5 or 3 at a time...
Should help the "average" owner.

 

[bnoble]

Any time more than 10 units sit empty at its simplest.

Well, you could have booked all ten of those last week, too, so it's not like it has gotten any worse.

I understand this is not a good development for you, but this particular argument for why the rest of us should care is a stretch.

 

[am1]

Well, you could have booked all ten of those last week, too, so it's not like it has gotten any worse.

I understand this is not a good development for you, but this particular argument for why the rest of us should care is a stretch.

But in some cases it is true. Wyndham would rather have units sit empty then have owners booked them.

 

[bestresort]

wyndham sucks

Wyndham is overly complex and this makes it worse.

Furthermore, they keep trying to punish heir best customers by changing rulesyear after year.

Need i remind you

1. costs to add guest names
2. costs to make reservations
3. now limits to use points

This is a ponzi scheme ready to implode.

If they take my usability away, they can have their points back a and the loan that came with it.

 

[bestresort]

sad but true

But in some cases it is true. Wyndham would rather have units sit empty then have owners booked them.

They want to push demand from the best resorts to the less desirable ones

 

[am1]

They want to push demand from the best resorts to the less desirable ones

But even at the less desired resorts and times we will now be limited to booking 10 units. How does that help anyone?

Lets remember at 10 months everyone has the same chance to book what ever is available.

 

[ace2000]

But even at the less desired resorts and times we will now be limited to booking 10 units. How does that help anyone?

Seriously? I think it's pretty clear that the end goal is to create more inventory for the high demand resorts/times, which in turn benefits a greater number of owners. And that means the mega-renters will have to use their points elsewhere at the lower demanded resorts/times. But, they will have to be more creative and use their points regardless somewhere, or they'll lose them.

At least that's my take on this latest change.

 

[vacationhopeful]

We are all looking too close to home and not at the bigger picture --- the BIG Question is:

Will this "rule" apply to Extra Holidays who at the inside the 60 day from checkin mark ... gets to GRAB 90% of the inventory that becomes available?

The SMART money follows the paper money: Extra Holidays WINS! with even MORE (free) inventory inside the 60 day from checkin mark via these cancellations.

And then I wonder HOW long the exclusion for "ARP made reservations" will exist? Is that ONLY the ARP or will it include the VIP Platinum 2 per USE year bennies/perks?

 

[am1]

Seriously? I think it's pretty clear that the end goal is to create more inventory for the high demand resorts/times, which in turn benefits a greater number of owners. And that means the mega-renters will have to use their points elsewhere at the lower demanded resorts/times. But, they will have to be more creative and use their points regardless somewhere, or they'll lose them.

At least that's my take on this latest change.

You do not think some owners will want to book more than 10 units at a resort that has excess inventory that would otherwise go unused?

Who is going to pay for all this administration and where is the bonus money coming from to pay the person who thought of this.

 

[ace2000]

You do not think some owners will want to book more than 10 units at a resort that has excess inventory that would otherwise go unused?

Tell us who should care about the answer to this? If it really is inventory that would otherwise go unused, what's the big deal? Perhaps I'm missing your point.

 

[mistalong]

the BIG Question is:

Will this "rule" apply to Extra Holidays who at the inside the 60 day from checkin mark ... gets to GRAB 90% of the inventory that becomes available?

EXACTLY!

Let's add this up:
+More availability for Extra Holidays
+Starting a drought with the resale market by via Ovation

Equals More profit for Wyndham


Here's some questions I'm curious how these situations that will factor in to this:

1) With Ovation, as they take these contracts back until they are sold to new owners who's responsible for that contracts MF? Or does our MF's go up to compensate for fewer owners?

2) With the possibility more availability for Extra Vacations with this new format, when Wyndham sells those rooms does a portion of the proceeds go to the HOA?

 

[Bigrob]

Some important clarifications...

So, I did call in to check on this, and got some interesting clarifications:

1. There is an "transition period" that will occur between Aug 3/4 - where all of your current cancelled points will become regular use year points. These points will NOT be associated to a contract... the contract line will be "blank".

2. AFTER August 4th, any reservation you cancel, the points will go back to where they came from to make the reservation, NOT to the use year of the reservation. The examples I was provided included:

A. Reservations made from a credit pool will go back to the same credit pool
B. Reservations made from a contract will go back to that contract and to the same use year of that contract - so if you borrow points to make a reservation in the express window, with the intention of cancelling the reservation and making a different reservation NOT in the express window - you will no longer be able to do this.

3. The 10 unit/20% limit does NOT apply to units listed with Extra Holidays. You could reserve all of Bonnet Creek (if you happened to have several hundred million points) and put all of the reservations with Extra Holidays, and none of the reservations would be cancelled.

4. There will NOT be a block on making the reservation when you reach the Nightly Unit Limit (NUL). What will happen instead is that the reservation will be automatically cancelled. Supposedly the points will go back to where they are supposed to go (unless it's inside the 15-day window, in which case the points will simply be lost.) Which reservation gets cancelled when you book the 11th night? Supposedly, the last one. This is troubling because you may not know that a reservation you're making isn't allowed, and you need to know that because you may have to choose between which reservation you'll want to keep, rather than having the system automatically cancel the last one.

5. Overlaps count, even if only a single night of overlap.

The "waiver" for placing reservations with Extra Holidays seems to reflect an OCI issue (Organizational Conflict of Interest). Wyndham is, in its role as manager/administrator of CWP, advantaging its own subsidiary to the detriment of owners and 3rd party companies. I'll leave it to the attorneys amongst us to weigh in on that aspect.

 

[am1]

EXACTLY!


Here's some questions I'm curious how these situations that will factor in to this:

1) With Ovation, as they take these contracts back until they are sold to new owners who's responsible for that contracts MF? Or does our MF's go up to compensate for fewer owners?

2) With the possibility more availability for Extra Vacations with this new format, when Wyndham sells those rooms does a portion of the proceeds go to the HOA?

The answers to your questions are related. Not sure who pays the mfs for unsold ovation contracts but Wyndham is suppose to pay mfs for their unsold points. Those points as well as others that owners have traded in are the basis for wyndham being able to rent out reservations.

This is part of the reason why new timeshares have low mfs.

 

[Bigrob]

EXACTLY!

Let's add this up:
+More availability for Extra Holidays
+Starting a drought with the resale market by via Ovation

Equals More profit for Wyndham


Here's some questions I'm curious how these situations that will factor in to this:

1) With Ovation, as they take these contracts back until they are sold to new owners who's responsible for that contracts MF? Or does our MF's go up to compensate for fewer owners?

2) With the possibility more availability for Extra Vacations with this new format, when Wyndham sells those rooms does a portion of the proceeds go to the HOA?

I think these changes my have a stabilizing influence on the resale market. Some current buyers may now sit on the sidelines based on the recent changes. So while supply may still be reduced, I think demand is also going to decline.

When Wyndham takes back contracts, it essentially is treated the same way as unsold inventory, and Wyndham is responsible for its pro rata share of the HOA fees. I don't believe Wyndham charges itself CWP fees on unsold inventory, so taking back inventory may have a nominal impact on the CWP portion as it slightly reduces the denominator.

Extra Holidays doesn't have anything to do with payment of HOA fees. Those fees are paid by the owner regardless of how or whether units or reservations are occupied. If, as an owner, I make a reservation and have Extra Holidays market it for me, I still pay the HOA via my regular fees. The same is true for the unsold inventory that Wyndham places with Extra Holiday (as Wyndham is the largest Wyndham owner and places the vast majority of inventory with Extra Holidays). Wyndham is still responsible for paying its pro rata share of HOA fees on the inventory it owns.

 

[tschwa2]

Are Extra Holiday's 100% non Wyndham owned inventory? Does Wyndham reserve inventory with unsold points and put that inventory into Extra Holidays and if so do they market their weeks before other owners?


Another question. So lets just say an owner books 20 units over a summer weekend using ARP and then tries to cancel and rebook. Could they still do it for 10 units but not 11 or more?

 

[am1]

Thanks. Did they say if it was per owner or account? How many people trust wyndham to cancel the correct reservations and to never make mistakes?

Wyndham seems to be overstepping their mandate in managing the resorts and reservation system.

So, I did call in to check on this, and got some interesting clarifications:

1. There is an "transition period" that will occur between Aug 3/4 - where all of your current cancelled points will become regular use year points. These points will NOT be associated to a contract... the contract line will be "blank".

2. AFTER August 4th, any reservation you cancel, the points will go back to where they came from to make the reservation, NOT to the use year of the reservation. The examples I was provided included:

A. Reservations made from a credit pool will go back to the same credit pool
B. Reservations made from a contract will go back to that contract and to the same use year of that contract - so if you borrow points to make a reservation in the express window, with the intention of cancelling the reservation and making a different reservation NOT in the express window - you will no longer be able to do this.

3. The 10 unit/20% limit does NOT apply to units listed with Extra Holidays. You could reserve all of Bonnet Creek (if you happened to have several hundred million points) and put all of the reservations with Extra Holidays, and none of the reservations would be cancelled.

4. There will NOT be a block on making the reservation when you reach the Nightly Unit Limit (NUL). What will happen instead is that the reservation will be automatically cancelled. Supposedly the points will go back to where they are supposed to go (unless it's inside the 15-day window, in which case the points will simply be lost.) Which reservation gets cancelled when you book the 11th night? Supposedly, the last one. This is troubling because you may not know that a reservation you're making isn't allowed, and you need to know that because you may have to choose between which reservation you'll want to keep, rather than having the system automatically cancel the last one.

5. Overlaps count, even if only a single night of overlap.

The "waiver" for placing reservations with Extra Holidays seems to reflect an OCI issue (Organizational Conflict of Interest). Wyndham is, in its role as manager/administrator of CWP, advantaging its own subsidiary to the detriment of owners and 3rd party companies. I'll leave it to the attorneys amongst us to weigh in on that aspect.

 

[ronparise]

Are Extra Holiday's 100% non Wyndham owned inventory? Does Wyndham reserve inventory with unsold points and put that inventory into Extra Holidays and if so do they market their weeks before other owners?


Another question. So lets just say an owner books 20 units over a summer weekend using ARP and then tries to cancel and rebook. Could they still do it for 10 units but not 11 or more?

thats the way I see it, I can rebook 10 of my arp reservations but not 11.

 

[Ty1on]

So, I did call in to check on this, and got some interesting clarifications:

1. There is an "transition period" that will occur between Aug 3/4 - where all of your current cancelled points will become regular use year points. These points will NOT be associated to a contract... the contract line will be "blank".

2. AFTER August 4th, any reservation you cancel, the points will go back to where they came from to make the reservation, NOT to the use year of the reservation. The examples I was provided included:

A. Reservations made from a credit pool will go back to the same credit pool
B. Reservations made from a contract will go back to that contract and to the same use year of that contract - so if you borrow points to make a reservation in the express window, with the intention of cancelling the reservation and making a different reservation NOT in the express window - you will no longer be able to do this.

3. The 10 unit/20% limit does NOT apply to units listed with Extra Holidays. You could reserve all of Bonnet Creek (if you happened to have several hundred million points) and put all of the reservations with Extra Holidays, and none of the reservations would be cancelled.

4. There will NOT be a block on making the reservation when you reach the Nightly Unit Limit (NUL). What will happen instead is that the reservation will be automatically cancelled. Supposedly the points will go back to where they are supposed to go (unless it's inside the 15-day window, in which case the points will simply be lost.) Which reservation gets cancelled when you book the 11th night? Supposedly, the last one. This is troubling because you may not know that a reservation you're making isn't allowed, and you need to know that because you may have to choose between which reservation you'll want to keep, rather than having the system automatically cancel the last one.

5. Overlaps count, even if only a single night of overlap.

The "waiver" for placing reservations with Extra Holidays seems to reflect an OCI issue (Organizational Conflict of Interest). Wyndham is, in its role as manager/administrator of CWP, advantaging its own subsidiary to the detriment of owners and 3rd party companies. I'll leave it to the attorneys amongst us to weigh in on that aspect.

So if I understand the cancellation properly, owners will have one shot with credit pool points from past use years....

 

[antjmar]

thats the way I see it, I can rebook 10 of my arp reservations but not 11.

I dont think this new rule applies to ARP. so you can book as many as you want using ARP.
edit:
yes you are correct if you are cancelling and rebooking...

 

[Ty1on]

Are Extra Holiday's 100% non Wyndham owned inventory? Does Wyndham reserve inventory with unsold points and put that inventory into Extra Holidays and if so do they market their weeks before other owners?

Unsold points are not within the points pool. Wyndham pays MF on any points that are in the pool that they've bought or taken back through loan default, cancellation, or Ovation. This MF payment does not come out of club funds.

 

[Bigrob]

Unsold points are not within the points pool.

Are you sure about this? My understanding has been that until sold, Wyndham has both the responsibility (maintenance fee) and right to use unsold points. Otherwise, in new resorts the reserve funds would be seriously underfunded, maintenance fees would be astronomical until a large percentage of the resort was sold, etc.

To Cindy's question, the answer is yes, Wyndham does deposit large blocks of inventory to Extra Holidays - by far the largest owner and depositor. Making the Extra Holidays exception to the NUL quite self-serving (some might say unethical and possibly illegal, in violation of anti-trust law).

 

[am1]

I dont think this new rule applies to ARP. so you can book as many as you want using ARP.
edit:
yes you are correct if you are cancelling and rebooking...

Why does ARP reservations get a pass? Usually when someone uses their ARP to make a reservation those are for the highest demand times.

 

[Bigrob]

So if I understand the cancellation properly, owners will have one shot with credit pool points from past use years....

Correct. If you have points in a credit pool that expire early in 2016, you best make a reservation with those points now and cancel it. I think someone posted they had points in a credit pool expiring Jan 9 2016. If they make a reservation in for early Jan 2016 and cancel it, they will have the points for all of 2016 (assuming they have a January use year). If they don't... and wait until after August 4th... when they try it, it will just spring back to the credit pool expiration date of Jan 9 2016.