2010 Maintenance Fee Thread

[GeneNWendy]

Regarding winners

That is a bunch of trash. We asked for an owner's list for the WSJ Virgin Grand Villas and were also denied on the premise that it was due to confidentiality reasons. However, the owner's names are part of public records found in the deeds office in St. Thomas or the tax accessor's office in St. John. Does the lottery not tell you who the winners are for confidentiality reasons? Give me a break!!

I had the same question. Emailed Starwood and was told because of confidentiality reasons, I could not get information on the winners or whether anyone won.

Pretty shady if you ask me.

 

[Zelda]

All of youneed to understand that Starwood got themselves into a deep problem with Raintree Vacation Club and they are both being sued for over $26 million dollars for lying about building the Grand Regina Villas in Los Cabos. They took the members money and spent it on "commissions and third party debt" and lied and told the members for a time that things were progressing nicely even though they never startedt eh project. The money was to go in an escrow fund pending construction. Instead they along with Raintree defrauded the members and spent their money. They are now in litigation in Chicago.....Cook County Circuit Court. docket/case # 2009-L-010071..Look it up and see for yourself.
Your increases are not only to pay for all those that can no longer afford to own a timeshare...but to also pay thier court cost and attorney fees and eventually to pay for the costs of this lawsuit. Which after all is saaid and done will be well over $500million. Check it out

 

[DeniseM]

Here's the link - https://w3.courtlink.lexisnexis.com...ase=2&case_no=&PLtype=2&sname=Starwood&CDate=

 

[DanCali]

Starwood sued for fraud? Really? shocker...

 

[stive1]

Sheraton SDO EOY 2 BR L/O fees's

Looked through the thread but did not see the MF for and EOY 2 BR L/O unit. I don't know if they are just 1/2 of the annual unit or if they are more expensive.

 

[DeniseM]

It's 1/2 the EY MF + around $40, so about $480-$485

Sheraton Desert Oasis (EOY Lg. 1 bdm) - $325.62
Sheraton Desert Oasis (Sm. 1 bdm.) - $518.63
Sheraton Desert Oasis (Lg. 1 bdm.) - $ 611.25
Sheraton Desert Oasis (2 bdm.) - $889.08

 

[GeneNWendy]

Do you want to punish Starwood for their outrageous fees?

As many of you know, the owners at the Westin St. John are planning a class-action suit against Starwood for breaking many laws and using the owners of it's Virgin Grand Villas as ATM machines. We are also planning to launch a negative PR campaign against Starwood. The last thing they want is for their reputation to be tarnished, especially with the FTC and SEC watching over them in these post Bernie Madoff days. I suggest that people with rising fees at all Starwood resorts look at the string we created in Yahoo Finance. See below how to access it. Propective buyers of Starwood stock will read this. This can only hurt them. Maybe enough of this will get them to change their ways with respect to their timeshare owners.


I posted the string in yahoofinance.com. It would be helpful to let the folks know on the website that they can go to www.yahoofinance.com. Get a stock quote for HOT(Starwood's exchange acronym), which will bring up the Starwood trade history and message board on the left side. Click on that and look for the string "possible legal against starwood" and post a comment.

 

[gelinasrj]

Wyndham points charges a full year in advance

Got the bills. With the bills, there is a shiny newsletter that discusses the MF delinquencies and the cost-savings initiatives. And...

"To help improve the Association's cash flow, we are offering a special incentive to Owners. When you play your maintenance fee early, you will receive valuable money-saving certificates for use at Starwood hotels and resorts and be automatically entered for a chance to win great prizes, like up to 1,000,000 Starpoints from the Starwood Preferred Guest program. This is our way of thanking you for paying early."

"Pay your maintenance fee and taxes in full, as early as October 15, 2009, and receive two valuable certificates: 50% off your special Owner rate at Starwood Vacation Ownership resorts; and 50% off retail rates at participating Starwood hotels and resorts."

And the kicker... Due date: January 4, 2010. This when SVR maintenance fees used to be due throughout the year based on your ownership week. Last year my Wk 41 was due in July.

-tim

You think paying at the start of the current year is bad. Wyndham charges a full year in advance. You pay 2011 fees in Jan 2010 then are billed an adjustment in December when the POA sets their rates. And if you want to revert to weeks, you have to pay the next years POA fee and hope they are still in business to pay them to the POA when they come due.

 

[nodge]

I had the same question. Emailed Starwood and was told because of confidentiality reasons, I could not get information on the winners or whether anyone won.

Pretty shady if you ask me.

I was finally told the same thing in writing by SVO Management:

Dear [nodge],

Thank you for contacting Association Management.

The winners of the "pay early, win big, win now" sweepstakes were contacted personally so they may claim their prizes. The information was not publicly released to protect the identity and privacy of our owners.

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact Association Management at 1-800-729-8246.

Sincerely,

[named redacted]
SVO Management Inc.

What is ironic about all of this is that on the same day I got this message, I got an email newsletter from SVO that said . . . . .

"Congratulations

Congratulations to the first batch of Thanks-a-Million Vacation Giveaway winners. The following Owners have each won a seven-night stay at the Starwood Vacation Ownership resort of their choice:

Karen Lee Gladney, Colorado
Karl Swanke, Vermont
Frederick Cole, Washington
Christopher Schaefer, California
Nora Klein, Virginia
James Veitengruber, Washington
Terry Genereaux, Ontario, Canada

To learn how you can enter to win a complimentary week-long vacation as well as the Grand Prize of 1,000,000 Starpoints® from the Starwood Preferred Guest® program, please visit the Thanks-a-Million Vacation Giveaway."

. . . so SVO is protecting the ID's of the "win early, win big, win now" winners, but not the "Thanks-a-Million" winners.

Did ANYONE here win a prize in the "win early, win big, win now" contest?

Otherwise, I guess we throw yet another thing onto the "blind faith and trust in SVO" pile.

-nodge

NOTE TO SVO: If you really didn't give any prizes away with the "win early, win big, win now" contest, why not at least make the non-prizes bigger? I'd much rather not win a new car than not win a week in a timeshare. -n

 

[naka4]

I thought the same thing when I read that notice! Again, the whole thing seems really shady to me and you bet I won't fall for it again!

 

[nodge]

I was finally told the same thing in writing by SVO Management:

Dear [nodge],

Thank you for contacting Association Management.

The winners of the "pay early, win big, win now" sweepstakes were contacted personally so they may claim their prizes. The information was not publicly released to protect the identity and privacy of our owners.

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact Association Management at 1-800-729-8246.

Sincerely,

[named redacted]
SVO Management Inc.

What is ironic about all of this is that on the same day I got this message, I got an email newsletter from SVO that said . . . . .

"Congratulations

Congratulations to the first batch of Thanks-a-Million Vacation Giveaway winners. The following Owners have each won a seven-night stay at the Starwood Vacation Ownership resort of their choice:

Karen Lee Gladney, Colorado
Karl Swanke, Vermont
Frederick Cole, Washington
Christopher Schaefer, California
Nora Klein, Virginia
James Veitengruber, Washington
Terry Genereaux, Ontario, Canada

To learn how you can enter to win a complimentary week-long vacation as well as the Grand Prize of 1,000,000 Starpoints® from the Starwood Preferred Guest® program, please visit the Thanks-a-Million Vacation Giveaway."

. . . so SVO is protecting the ID's of the "win early, win big, win now" winners, but not the "Thanks-a-Million" winners.

Did ANYONE here win a prize in the "win early, win big, win now" contest?

Otherwise, I guess we throw yet another thing onto the "blind faith and trust in SVO" pile.

-nodge

Hold the phone! Over the past month I've emailed or used the mailbox on mystarcentral to send several requests to SVO asking for the list of winners for the "win early, win big, win now" contest. Most went unanswered except the one I posted above. Then today, out of the blue, I got this written answer from SVO to a separate message I sent earlier asking the same thing . . . .:

Dear [nodge, you handsome devil you],

Thank you for contacting Starwood Vacation Ownership.

We sincerely apologize for any confusion. We have yet to determine the "Pay Early, Win Big" winners from the third drawing. Once these winners accept the prize, all of the winners from all three drawings will be posted online. Unfortunately we do not have a timeframe for this to be completed.

[...]


Should you need further assistance, please contact Owner Services at:

Sheraton 888-SV-OWNER (786-9637)
407- 903-4649

The hours of operation for Owner Services are Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday, 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Eastern Time. Have a pleasant day.

Sincerely,
[name redacted]
E-Communications Specialist
Owner Services" (emphasis added).

So there you go . . . according to SVO's very own words . . . . everyone who won already knows they won and SVO is just protecting their ID's by not giving out that info . . . AND . . . SVO hasn't actually held the last drawing yet so not everyone knows if they won, and SVO isn't sure when it is going to draw those last names. But when it does, it will publish all the winners' names at that unknowable time--to hell with their privacy.

Any questions?

-nodge

I can't wait for the responses I'll get to my remaining 3 unanswered requests seeking this information.

 

[Fredm]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[gregb]

WKORVN MF increase analyzed

I have finally gotten some time to put the info from the WKORVN budget into a spreadsheet and do some analysis. This has shed some interesting light on the increase in MF at WKORVN.

First off, I want to say that I am working off of the glossy explanation sheet that accompanied the budget and MF bill. It lists many of the increases and decreases in costs that are reflected in the 2010 budget and the 2010 MF.

The good news is that Starwood and the HOA have managed to reduce expenses at the resort in several areas, resulting in a total savings of $153.67 in those areas compared to 2009 expenses. This comes from two major sources. Reduced utilities costs ($90.70, the co-generation plant gets the credit for much of this) and reduced labor costs ($54.74). It seems that with the downturn in the economy they are able to find local people to work at the resort. In previous years the labor pool was so short they had to import workers, which cost more than the locals.

The bad news is that increases swamped these savings, so many people may not have realized or appreciated the efforts that Starwood and the HOA made to keep costs under control.

The majority of the increase in MF comes from items that Starwood is not able to control. They include the increased Ad Valorem (property) tax, increased Exise Tax, and owners not paying their Maintenance Fees. There was also a deficit in the 2009 budget that had to be made up for in the 2010 MF. Much of the 2009 deficit (about $80) is due to the increased property tax that was not budgeted.

If, for the sake of comparison, you set aside the uncontrollable increases included in the 2010 MF and then compare the 2009 MF to the 2010 MF, you may be surprised to learn that Starwood and the HOA have effected an overall savings from 2009 of $76.52. Yes, that is right, if the taxes didn't go up, and if owners paid their MF on time, and if the 2009 budget shortfall had actually been paid in the 2009 MF instead of the 2010 MF, your MF for 2010 would be $76.52 SMALLER than what your bill for 2009 should have been.

So how did I arrive at that startling conclusion? Well here is a quick peak at the figures.

• $15.00 - Increased Exise tax
• $307.63 - Increased Property Tax
• $215.77 - Reserve for noncollectable accounts (delinquent MF)
• $ 82.75 - Prior year tax deficit (1/2 year at increased tax rate)
• $621.16 - Total increase due to taxes and delinquent MF

My actual bill increased $617.83 from 1,861.77 to $2479.60.

If the deficit from 2009 that is billed in 2010 ($36.50) is added to the 2009 MF ($1,898.37) and subtracted from the 2010 MF ($1821.85), then you end up with your controllable 2010 MF actually being $76.52 less than what your 2009 bill should have been.

If someone wants to tell me how, I will be glad to post the spreadsheet that shows all this.

So my whole point in posting this is that after doing this analysis, I feel that Starwood and the HOA have been doing a good job in trying to control costs at my resort.

OK, have at it.

Greg

 

[tschwa2]

As an owner of a Starwood managed resort (SBP) and non Starwood manged resorts, I don't think you can give Starwood a pass on the delinquent and non collectible accounts. Most resorts are dealing with it but Starwood is not dealing with it well. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought part of the job of managing a resort is making sure that fees are paid. Starwood and the HOA's need to come up with a plan because passing the cost onto the other owner's who get no benefit from paying for other people's delinquent fees until they too get tired of it and walk away is not working. :annoyed:

 

[okwiater]

I think that Starwood should credit owners with extra Staroptions in an amount that proportionally reflects the amount of MF that is attributable to other owners' delinquencies. Since owners who don't pay their MF don't get use of their resort, it stands to reason that these extra Staroptions are available, and they SHOULD be distributed to other owners who are carrying the property for the deadbeats.

 

[DeniseM]

I think that Starwood should credit owners with extra Staroptions in an amount that proportionally reflects the amount of MF that is attributable to other owners' delinquencies.

GREAT idea!

 

[DanCali]

I think that Starwood should credit owners with extra Staroptions in an amount that proportionally reflects the amount of MF that is attributable to other owners' delinquencies. Since owners who don't pay their MF don't get use of their resort, it stands to reason that these extra Staroptions are available, and they SHOULD be distributed to other owners who are carrying the property for the deadbeats.

Well, they can't do that if they are renting the VOIs to cover delinquencies because those weeks get used up inthe system.

Now, where all that money goes and how much is left to cover the delinquent account after all the accounting wizardry is where transparency lacks bigtime.

 

[James1975NY]

I think that Starwood should credit owners with extra Staroptions in an amount that proportionally reflects the amount of MF that is attributable to other owners' delinquencies. Since owners who don't pay their MF don't get use of their resort, it stands to reason that these extra Staroptions are available, and they SHOULD be distributed to other owners who are carrying the property for the deadbeats.

The problem with this scenario is that if SVO were to hand out usage proportionate to the additional maintenance fees you pay to cover delinquencies, SVO would not be able to rent the unit out and use some of the money towards the debt. Ultimately that would mean that SVO would need to collect more from each owner as their would be $0.00 lock-out rental relief contributed to the HOA. Further, the delinquent owner would have to be an SVN member for SVO to shell out their SO's.

 

[okwiater]

So how much lock-off rental relief is there in the budget? Is it as high as I would think it needs to be to justify the MF increases most people have been seeing?

 

[James1975NY]

So how much lock-off rental relief is there in the budget? Is it as high as I would think it needs to be to justify the MF increases most people have been seeing?

Someone may have the information but the bottom line is that if there was no contribution from lock-out rentals back to the HOA, the owners would have to pay 100% of delinquent units.

 

[gregb]

It may be that some resorts have been having a delinquent owners problem for some years, but that does not appear to be the case for WKROVN. I don't know what the delinquency was for 2008, but I believe it was quite low. In 2009 it started to go up. We have not been told what it is in 2010. If I understood the explanation correctly, the part of the reserves put into the budget for 2010 delinquencies divided by the annual unit MF, yields around 1167 unit-weeks delinquent out of 12416 total unit-weeks, or about 8.7% delinquency. That was put into the budget when it was created in 2009, so it was an estimate. Now that we are almost through March, they should have a good idea what the delinquency rate really is for 2010. Time to ask them.

I think it is unfair to state that the HOA is not doing anything about the delinquencies. When I talked to Gregg Lundburg, resort manager, in February he said that the HOA is working to collect the MF from delinquent owners, and that they are working on reducing the property taxes. As has been discussed, if the MF are delinquent, the owner cannot reserve or use their unit. Foreclosure is another option, but not a very pretty one, and even less attractive if the owner has a primary mortgage on the unit. So what other avenues does the HOA actually have?

I agree that more information from Starwood and the HOA would be very helpful. But the lack of communication from them does not mean they are doing nothing.

Greg

 

[jerseygirl]

When I attended one of the Board Meetings, I asked a lot of questions about renting delinquent units. The answers were, unfortunately, less than satisfactory. It didn't seem if there was a true plan in place (and this is for one of the resorts with more demand than supply).

I was told:

-- They do attempt to rent delinquent owner weeks
-- Owners can show up for a reservation with a check in hand and they will be allowed in

The above two statements can't both be true (to some extent -- maybe -- but clearly there's an inconsistency as well).

I was also told that owners aren't "locked out" until maintenance fees are 90 days past due. So, it's quite easy for someone to use a unit in the first quarter and get away with not paying the fees.

Several people here on TUG have reported being able to deposit next year's usage without pre-paying maintenance fees. That may have been "owner friendly," but it's not good business in this economy. There was a recent report here on TUG that the policy was being changed to ensure estimated fees are collected in advance, but I haven't seen that independently verified by Starwood or by anyone who has tried to deposit. As I understand it, the rules were different (perhaps as set by the HOAs) for different resorts so until Starwood announces a formal policy change, I'm a little afraid that this might still be occuring.

I know all don't agree with me, but I think the liberal cancellation policy probably hurts the rental income potential. There's a much greater chance of another owner using time, or being able to rent it, if last-minute cancellations weren't being rewarded with a penalty-free II week. As I've stated in the past -- there might come a day when I too am happy about this policy, but I don't think it's beneficial to the ownership at large.

I suspect Starwood and the HOAs did not have their eyes on the ball in 2009. The Starwood representative present at the meeting admitted that they didn't see the delinquencies coming. (Was that a rookie error -- the first real down economy they've had to deal with in this segment of the hospitality business?) Unfortunately, that lack of attention ... lack of a real plan .... cost owners a significant amount of money for this year. Hopefully, there's been enough owner concern about increased maintenance fees to ensure that things will be better this year on the collection and rental front.

Ultimately, one has to believe that the extremely high maintenance fees are hurting developer sales -- maybe not as much as they're hurting resales -- but they certainly can't be helping. Higher maintenance fees means higher management fees for Starwood -- but also lower sales. Which one do we think is more important to them from a financial standpoint?

 

[DanCali]

I think it is unfair to state that the HOA is not doing anything about the delinquencies. When I talked to Gregg Lundburg, resort manager, in February he said that the HOA is working to collect the MF from delinquent owners, and that they are working on reducing the property taxes. As has been discussed, if the MF are delinquent, the owner cannot reserve or use their unit. Foreclosure is another option, but not a very pretty one, and even less attractive if the owner has a primary mortgage on the unit. So what other avenues does the HOA actually have?

1167 weeks * $2000 is a lot of money...

My uninformed best guess is that if the HOA put the weeks up for rent to existing owners just to cover MFs, the HOA would be better off than letting Starwood do the rentals for them. All it takes is a website and 1-2 people to operate it and take care of reservations. Heck, if the HOA gave me 10% of the recovered funds I'd do it myself (better than a 50% commission to Starwood)!

Does anyone even have a remote clue how many cents on the dollar they are collecting from Starwood for the delinquent accounts???

 

[jerseygirl]

My uninformed best guess is that if the HOA put the weeks up for rent to existing owners just to cover MFs, the HOA would be better off than letting Starwood do the rentals for them. All it takes is a website and 1-2 people to operate it and take care of reservations. Heck, if the HOA gave me 10% of the recovered funds I'd do it myself (better than a 50% commission to Starwood)

Dan -- I suggested the very same thing at the board meeting I attended. I was somewhat relieved when one of the board members spoke up and said they were having a supplemental meeting to discuss various options. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find out what, if anything, was decided at that supplemental meeting (I'm still trying). It's not in Starwood's best interest to promote such a plan -- which is why it's critical that we have INDEPENDENT boards that can see past Starwood's recommendation and do what's best for the owners at large.

I told them I didn't think an owner rental plan would necessarily be effective in areas with excess supply (e.g., Orlando) or a high percentage of off-season weeks (e.g., Myrtle Beach, Phoenix). But, I thought it had a great chance of success at resorts where network demand exceeds supply (e.g., HRA, WSJ, WKORV/N).

 

[vss]

Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella

Folks, A question on Maintenance Fees at the SVV Bella: the 1 BR premium Villa is 882 sq ft and the regular 1BR Villa is 488 sq ft. The MF appears to be the same for both 1BRs at:

Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella (1 bdm.) - $596.91

Can you pls confirm if this is correct? Thanks a lot.