[ 2008 ] SVO eBay Sales

[saluki]

Thanks -- that's what I thought. 56K is a worthless # of SOs to have, in my opinion -- doesn't really "mesh well" with any of the other popular resale mandatory units. Although, it does gets you a one-BR premium at HRA in the summer .............. if you can find one.

Just looked at the listing again. Even though it says Gold, it is in fact Silver based on the deeded week & home usage weeks shown. Nice job there "greattimesharebargains".

 

[jerseygirl]

And well-deserved price!

 

[DanCali]

WKV EY "small" 1Bd - Gold - 37K SO - $1199 (Feb 20, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180465223253

 

[saluki]

Wouldn't a gold be worth 81000 SOs? The ad says 56300 -- is that silver? (Sorry -- I just got a new laptop and haven't transferred my files -- too lazy to log into myripoffcentral to access the SO chart.)

This WKV 2BR has been relisted on eBay. I wrote the seller that they had it mislabeled as Gold Season. They responded saying there is no Silver Season at WKV. I checked the StarOptions chart & technically they are correct. The old Silver Season is now Gold & the old Gold is "Gold Plus". I must have missed this "upgrade" notice.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Wow - I just went onto to eBay and looked at my Westin SVO search - there are a lot of Westin SVO VOIs that have suddenly popped-up - mainly WKORV/N.

things to come? watch out below!

 

[jerseygirl]

This WKV 2BR has been relisted on eBay. I wrote the seller that they had it mislabeled as Gold Season. They responded saying there is no Silver Season at WKV. I checked the StarOptions chart & technically they are correct. The old Silver Season is now Gold & the old Gold is "Gold Plus". I must have missed this "upgrade" notice.

And, a fine upgrade it was! Thanks for the explanation -- trying to match the new II designations, I guess. Although, I think they did a similiar "re-name" to my WSJ unit a year or so ago ... from gold to platinum (vs. platinum plus) and from what I can tell all WSJs are coded WSJ-ALL in II ... no distinction between seasons. I think the real motivation had to do with making their colors look prettier on the SO Chart. Gold says so much more than silver, don't you think?

 

[saluki]

It reminds me of the upset Russian men's figure skater who decided to award himself a "Platinum Medal" after losing out on the gold in Vancouver.

I guess he did not know about "Gold Plus"!

 

[DanCali]

WKORV EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean Front Center (unit 253031) $22,100 (Feb 24, 2010)

seller was redweeks4less

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350319390896

 

[DavidnRobin]

WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop

 

[vistana101]

SVV 2 BD-platinum-81K SO-$2,026.01 (2/23/10)

Seller was tochoa25

 

[DanCali]

WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop

FWIW, I posted a reasonable explanation not too long as as to why, in my opinion, this should be the case.

Of course if WKV MFs start to spiral out of control and it's becomes cheaper to rent comparabe accomodations in Hawaii than exchange there by owning WKV, then any value from the option to exchange will evaporate pretty quickly... If Marriott can run Canyon villas at less than $1000/year I hope Starwood can manage to keep a lid on MFs at least at this location.

 

[Fredm]

I think they did a similiar "re-name" to my WSJ unit a year or so ago ... from gold to platinum (vs. platinum plus) and from what I can tell all WSJs are coded WSJ-ALL in II ... no distinction between seasons. I think the real motivation had to do with making their colors look prettier on the SO Chart. Gold says so much more than silver, don't you think?

I pine for the good old days of red, white and blue.
Granted, precious metals are sexier.
But precious stones are sexier yet.
How about emerald, diamond, and ruby seasons?
They say so much more than the metals

Are emeralds or diamonds the most precious?

 

[bizaro86]

Why stop at metals or gemstones. Think of the marketing power you could get out of being the only timeshare with kryptonite, or unobtanium seasons!

Michael

 

[DanCali]

WKORV EOY (Odd) 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean View $8300 (Feb 25, 2010)

seller was seizethedayvacations

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557249954

 

[DanCali]

WSJ Annual 3BR Pool Villa Week 28 104,100 SOs $15,401 (Feb 28, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270535551639

sold by owner

 

[yumdrey]

SVV 3BR Key West

Sheraton Vistana Village, 3BR, Key West section, 118,000 StarOption, Odd years
sold for $3,650 on ebay. Seller is sellingtimeguys

 

[DanCali]

yumdrey - can you please include a link to the auction? thanks!

 

[yumdrey]

WKV, 2BR gold, 81000 SO

Westin Kierland Villas, 2BR gold season, 81000 staroption, annual
sold for $3,250 on ebay.
Wow, it is going down!

 

[yumdrey]

yumdrey - can you please include a link to the auction? thanks!

item number is 330406713400
and here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/STAROPTIONS-SHE...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4cedc65838

 

[amundson]

WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop

I have some experience with this seller and I believe that the seller was bidding on his own auction on this one. The winner had zero (0) feedback. The same seller had another auction that had numerous bids by buyers with zero (0) feedback, but on the other auction the winner had a feedback of 1. So, two auctions and they both happened to be won by buyers with no feedback who are only interested in his timeshares.

Anyway, this seller is "siezethedayvacations" and what I believe the seller does is bid up the price to as high as possible with these fake accounts with no feedback. They essentially top your highest offer and win their own auction. I suppose they can give themselves feedback and pay the small fee to eBAy for selling a timeshare too. But in the end, since they still have a TS to sell, they then come back to the next highest bidder with a "second-chance" offer. This bidder gets offered a "similar, everything the same" timeshare because the seller happens to have a second one and by the way, the seller will sell it to you for the price of your highest bid. That is what they did to me anyway, as I was the second high bidder on one of the auction listings sold by "siezethedayvacations". I actually still wanted the timeshare, but still would not buy it, really only because it left a bad taste in my mouth and I am stubborn enough not to accept this practice.

 

[Pita]

WKV ebay overpriced?

I think the price for this unit was surprisingly high but 3 experienced buyers bid a max of: 16,700, 19,007 and 19,257.
Apparently, there are still some demand for WKV!

 

[jarta]

amundsun, ... This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding." It is supposed to be against eBay policy. But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."

The most egregious abuse is when a seller sets up a very high bid to be made at the last second on a luxury item. It is made automatically. Whatever you bid, the bidding machine bids more.

Another element is that "to protect the bidders' privacy" (lol!), the bidders full aliases are not visible.

You can see the automatic bids and when they were made by clicking to see additional bidding information.

Then, sometimes you are sent a "second offer" at the last shill bid price. But, most of the time, the "buyer" refused to complete the deal and the property is merely relisted.

It's just another way of setting a reserve and talking to the bidders about how much they will go up to. But, the reserve is not disclosed. It's the biggest scam on eBay and one that someday a State Attorney General will bust wide open to eBay's embarrassment and dismay. ... eom

 

[amundson]

amundsun, ... This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding." It is supposed to be against eBay policy. But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."

The most egregious abuse is when a seller sets up a very high bid to be made at the last second on a luxury item. It is made automatically. Whatever you bid, the bidding machine bids more.

Another element is that "to protect the bidders' privacy" (lol!), the bidders full aliases are not visible.

You can see the automatic bids and when they were made by clicking to see additional bidding information.

Then, sometimes you are sent a "second offer" at the last shill bid price. But, most of the time, the "buyer" refused to complete the deal and the property is merely relisted.

It's just another way of setting a reserve and talking to the bidders about how much they will go up to. But, the reserve is not disclosed. It's the biggest scam on eBay and one that someday a State Attorney General will bust wide open to eBay's embarrassment and dismay. ... eom

Jarta, this is exactly how it was. I hadn't heard the term shill bidding, but from your description of shill bidding, that is what it was, to a tee and all in the name of charity too.

 

[DanCali]

I have some experience with this seller and I believe that the seller was bidding on his own auction on this one. The winner had zero (0) feedback. The same seller had another auction that had numerous bids by buyers with zero (0) feedback, but on the other auction the winner had a feedback of 1. So, two auctions and they both happened to be won by buyers with no feedback who are only interested in his timeshares.

Anyway, this seller is "siezethedayvacations" and what I believe the seller does is bid up the price to as high as possible with these fake accounts with no feedback. They essentially top your highest offer and win their own auction. I suppose they can give themselves feedback and pay the small fee to eBAy for selling a timeshare too. But in the end, since they still have a TS to sell, they then come back to the next highest bidder with a "second-chance" offer. This bidder gets offered a "similar, everything the same" timeshare because the seller happens to have a second one and by the way, the seller will sell it to you for the price of your highest bid. That is what they did to me anyway, as I was the second high bidder on one of the auction listings sold by "siezethedayvacations". I actually still wanted the timeshare, but still would not buy it, really only because it left a bad taste in my mouth and I am stubborn enough not to accept this practice.

I disagree that it happened in this case.

First, IF this practice is employed, a seller can do this in a private auction where you can't see the bidders at all. Compare this list of bidders:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220557082686

To this one:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350319390896

Second, as other pointed out, there were quite a few experienced (counted by number of feedback) bidders in this auction who bid relatively close to the winning bid.

Third, the final price, although somewhat high for eBay sales for WKV, is not unusually out of line with resale prices in general and also a similar unit which sold on eBay a few months ago for around $17.1K. In my opinion, most resale buyers probably do not buy WKV just to vacation there all the time. If they liked Scottsdale that much they can buy SDO for a fraction of the price and lower MFs. Think of it this way, if you can use WKV to trade into WKORVN and WPORV most weeks out of the year at 8 months out and pay 1/2 of the maintenance fees then shouldn't it worth much more than WKORV and WPORV (assuming you don't need the prime view)? As long as these trading opportunities exist its basically a much cheaper way to own Hawaii (measured by MFs). And as long as those trading opportunities exist this should be reflected in the upfront purchase price.

The reality is that these days there are only 3-4 WKV 2BR Platinum auctions each year and it's hard to infer what the "right" price should be because the sample is small. There is just not a lot of supply in general... 3 2BR units on RedWeek versus dozens of Hawaii units. The supply of 1BR Platinum units is even lower... Low supply and high demand translates to high prices.

Moreover, the fact that WKV is now the unequivocal "best value" (in terms of SO/MF ratio) for StarOptions traders wheras 6 months ago SVV was a pretty reasonable alternative also means that some SVV buyers are now in the market for WKV. Again more demand should translate to higher prices.

This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding." It is supposed to be against eBay policy. But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."

Lastly, unlike what jarta said, I happen to know that eBay puts significant effort in catching schill bidders.

See, for example, this link:

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/ebay-s...ed-shill-bidding-any-chance-reinstatment.html

In addition, I know at least one person firsthand caught by eBay. A friend of mine from grad school who was scalping tickets to an NBA game was caught by eBay shill bidding using his brother's account (which had quite a bit of positive feedback). So to say they do nothing about it is simply incorrect.

That said, this practice probably continues to go on and is more likely to happen in the private auctions. I just don't think it happened in this case... I truly think a couple of people got a bit carried away and had a small bidding war which resulted in the item selling for maybe $1000 more that it otherwise would have. The favorable closing terms (low cost and 2011 first usage) may have also been a factor in people's willingness to bid high.

 

[jarta]

amundson, ... Here's a link to eBay's policy about shill bidding:

"Shill bidding
Bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to other bidders. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/glossary.html#S

Yet, it goes on and on and on.

That's one reason why not very many people trust eBay. Good deals are possible, but there is too much trickery for most people to venture into the swamp.

eBay, IMO, is merely a place for panic or liquidation sales of timeshares and bottom feeder purchasers (like me). eBay does not make the market in timeshares. Guys like JAMES1975NY or Fredm do. The 5-10 Starwood forced or panicked sales a week on eBay are a tiny part of the timeshare market. If you think Starwood is slimy, you should try dealing with some of the postcard companies on resales. That's real slime. ... eom