[2008] Southcape Resort

[Carolinian]

Is not the issue of the developer inventory being exempt from m/f the only issue that involves a violation of the Master Deed?

I know it has been some time since we discussed those issues surrounding the Master Deed, but that is the only one I am aware of.

The issue of the developer inventory being exempt from the special assessment is supported by the Master Deed. Unjust, but supported. As is their authority to control the HOA - given that the developer control provisions are so poorly formed.

And if you extend the question to that of the by-laws, then the members list.

Generally, in the law, a rule of construction is that any vague provision is construed AGAINST whoever drafted it. Since the Master Deed was drafted by the developer or its agents, then any ambiguities about developer control of the HOA should be construed against the developer if the matter ever gets to court.

 

[mayorpw]

Sou13 ...

This is a good example of why those salespeople do not give owners any kind of information or brochures before they sign on the dotted line. If any one had paper work with definitive information FAC would no longer exist because people would not be giving up their deeded weeks. All it takes is some quiet time to think and reason it out, put the numbers together, look at the positive and negative sides of the points system, and deeded owners would keep their weeks.

Heck ... you can go up on Ebay and other places and buy weeks for pennies, pay the MFs annually, and have those weeks to trade through RCI, etc. Still cheaper than FAC and probably less headaches.

Jean

so i take it that you are an authority on this whole thing and we should rely on what you say is 100% true and when you are proved wrong what will you say then?

 

[Sou13]

Why buy?

The only reason I can see for buying a timeshare is to be able to join II! If you can rent a week you get to choose from the available weeks for rent. Or if you own a week and join II you can get getaway weeks for less than the going rental rate.

I'm no authority but I'm really disenchanted with owning a timeshare.

 

[Classylassy523]

so i take it that you are an authority on this whole thing and we should rely on what you say is 100% true and when you are proved wrong what will you say then?

You can take it any way you want. I stated my opinion and no where did I express being an authority. I asked nor told you or anyone to rely on my statements as 100% true.

If and when it should prove out that I am wrong ... I will be the first to admit it.

Did I touch a nerve? Am I too close to the truth for comfort?????

 

[Classylassy523]

The only reason I can see for buying a timeshare is to be able to join II! If you can rent a week you get to choose from the available weeks for rent. Or if you own a week and join II you can get getaway weeks for less than the going rental rate.

I'm no authority but I'm really disenchanted with owning a timeshare.

Sou13 ...
Maybe I am an exception, but I have never traded my week. I purchased my week at Sandcastle in 1982 and have gone there every year. I was a widowed mother with 3 young children and it gave me an affordable place to take my children on vacation. They have since grown and moved away and now I along with my friends and family continue to use it every year. I gave up my membership in RCI years ago because I knew I would never use it. I figured that if and I when I decided to trade my time, I could rejoin RCI then.

I should think that if a person or couple have reached a point in their lives where they want to travel and see the world, owning weeks in timeshares would or could be an inexpensive way to do it. I suppose it would depend on how wisely they choose their weeks and resorts. But, like I said, I am no authority or have any experience in trading weeks and/or resorts.

Jean

 

[ecwinch]

Generally, in the law, a rule of construction is that any vague provision is construed AGAINST whoever drafted it. Since the Master Deed was drafted by the developer or its agents, then any ambiguities about developer control of the HOA should be construed against the developer if the matter ever gets to court.

The current developer did not draft the Master Deed.

Also, it is complicated by the fact that the Governing Documents were drafted in accordance with Mass Condo law, and it predates the Mass Timeshare Regulations.

And the developer control provisions are not vague. They just are unlikely to be met. They outline that developer control will be phased out as project reaches certain thresholds of development. Unfortunately the previous developer had some of the land seized by the township for taxes. So it is highly unlikely that the number of units called for in the Master Deed will ever be built. Which leaves Cliff in control.

 

[ecwinch]

so i take it that you are an authority on this whole thing and we should rely on what you say is 100% true and when you are proved wrong what will you say then?

How will you prove her wrong? Do you have some inside information on the sales process?

 

[ecwinch]

Sou13 ...

This is a good example of why those salespeople do not give owners any kind of information or brochures before they sign on the dotted line. If any one had paper work with definitive information FAC would no longer exist because people would not be giving up their deeded weeks. All it takes is some quiet time to think and reason it out, put the numbers together, look at the positive and negative sides of the points system, and deeded owners would keep their weeks.
Jean

Wait until they whip out the purchase documents. When you see how many pages they are, stop and say "well this looks complicated, I think I need to have my attorney review this before I sign"

Then leave with the documents.

You also can request a copy of the public offering statement in advance.

 

[ecwinch]

Management didn't have to give it to them. They are on the Board of Trustees ... they have their own copy. But, a good question, is it legal for a member of the Board to use the list of owners to sell them anything that is not directly a part of the resort? Can a member of the Board sell anything at all to people on that list? Isn't there a question of ethics or conflict of interest?

Jean

FAC is another exchange opportunity for members. A BoD can make a decision to market products to their members.

But in this case, I think they would point to their right to access the list as the developer, rather than as a member of the Board.

There is a conflict of interest issue, but that is not exactly the silver bullet. The By-laws recognize and allow for a conflict of interest to exist. The developer has an inherent conflict of interest for example.

 

[tombo]

You can take it any way you want. I stated my opinion and no where did I express being an authority. I asked nor told you or anyone to rely on my statements as 100% true.

If and when it should prove out that I am wrong ... I will be the first to admit it.

Did I touch a nerve? Am I too close to the truth for comfort?????

Don't let Mayor get to you. Mayor is Cliff or one of Cliff's cronies IMO.

No one posts positive things about timeshare salesman's ethics or disclosures of facts during sales presentations because to say that they were forthcoming, honest, and above reproach would be showing either ignorance or bias. If a timeshare salesman told the truth about limited exchange availability for prime weeks and locations (with either internal points or exchange companies), if they told the truth about what the weeks/points were worth resale as soon as they sign the purchase contract, and if they told potential buyers what they could buy the same thing resale for on e-bay they would never sell a week or a point. Shadows and lies are the only way to sell Timeshares retail.

To Cliff or Mayor (whichever screen name wants to respond), since you feel like proving your point that the timeshare salesmen do the right thing in the sales process, how about giving new FAC points club members the TUG web site information with their paperwork they get after they have purchased. Let them have the TUG internet information before the recission period has passed. Let them read the posts here and make up their minds for themselves after accessing new information that exposes the lies told by the sales people. If the salesmen are telling truths and not misleading customers then having access to TUG won't cost you a single sale because no one will rescind. We both know that you would have about 100% recission rate if people could ask people on TUG questions about their purchase in time to rescind. However feel free to prove us wrong and give the TUG information to all new members.

The internet is the Timeshare industries worst enemy because with facts and information retail buyers become resale buyers or non buyers. Read the Points Festiva thread where one of Festiva's uninformed customers recently found TUG, read differents posts enlightening them on the situation, and then promptly rescinded. We will gladly spread the facts to all who find us. If only the retail customers could have access to a computer during the sales presentations to type in questions for TUG members as they faced the salesperson's claims, then the buyer could buy after truly being informed. Of course if that actually happened, virtually no one would buy.

 

[mweinberg]

Wait until they whip out the purchase documents. When you see how many pages they are, stop and say "well this looks complicated, I think I need to have my attorney review this before I sign"

Then leave with the documents.

You also can request a copy of the public offering statement in advance.

Actually, I tried what you suggested, only because I wanted to walk out with a copy of the contract to see what it said.

Said I, "Well, let me show the contract to my financial advisor and my attorney, and I'll get back to you."

Said Outfield, "There is no contract, just some paperwork required by the state of Massachusetts. Besides, I only get paid to talk to you once. Once I get up from the table, the deal disappears."

I pointed out to him that my father had warned me about guys like him!

Michael

 

[tombo]

Said I, "Well, let me show the contract to my financial advisor and my attorney, and I'll get back to you."

Said Outfield, "There is no contract, just some paperwork required by the state of Massachusetts.

No contract, just some paperwork. :hysterical::rofl: :hysterical:

Tell Festiva that you didn't sign a contract when you try to get your deeded week back or when you want to quit FAC and/or don't want to pay the annual FAC dues. Explain to them that according to the salesman that there was no contract and watch them produce the paperwork you signed that was required by the state of Massachusetts. That paperwork that Massachusetts requires is more commonly referred to as a contract.


Someone needs to go through the whole presentation and get a contract to let everyone peruse. Someone can sign everything like you were going to buy, get copies of everything which they are required by law to give you, and then you simply rescind the next day.

Eric, you probably have more legal expertise than any here. Does Festiva have to give you copies of all of the contracts even if you won't agree to buy and even if you won't sign the contracts (oops I meant sign the paperwork required by the State of Missouri since there is no contract)?

 

[SCapeOwnersRUS]

Who Gets The $ 3,000.00?? You Are Trying To Charge

I haven't posted on this thread before, but many of you will already know me from other threads. If you're not familiar with me, please feel free to look at my previous posts. I just wanted to say hello and that I will try to be active on this thread as well.

Since this is specifically about Southcape, i will address one issue that I was specifically asked to address on the board: to clarify the relationship between our company and the two resorts in Mass. Festiva Resorts does not own or manage either Southcape or Sandcastle. Further, we do not own NEVS or Outfield. Outfield is the company we have hired to offer optional upgrades to the Festiva Adventure Club program from a deeded week.

If you have specific questions or concerns you can post them here and I will try to answer them, or you can send an e-mail with detailed information to comments@festivaresorts.com.

Thanks.

The $ 3,000.00 you are trying to charge as told by the rep "Outfield or NEVS or whoever" goes some to NEVS some to Outfiled and some to Festiva..
WHY?
Principals of Festiva Outfield and NEVS are all interrelated into the same goal and entity it seems. Are there attempts to try and take control of these RESORTS or not ?
Meanwhile THERE IS NO WIRELESS INTERNET as of 8/4/09 NO improvements per the budget that was proposed and THREATS by the OUTFIELD rep that UNLESS Payments are made and deeded weeks surrendered there will be ongoing assessments the most immediate of which will be for sewer of approximately $ 1.3 million and that if any are levied no matter how much they are they will be an effect an impact on deeded weeks personal credit with the only remedy to transfer the deed to Festiva.....
How is that LEGAL and ETHICAL???
Where is Cliff Hagberg? Why is he not at the resort ? Why are these marketing reps occupying a unit ( Unit # 32) set up as a sales office during thye height of the season, and trying to set up meetings with everyone at the resort, owbers as well as renters?

 

[ecwinch]

Actually, I tried what you suggested, only because I wanted to walk out with a copy of the contract to see what it said.

Said I, "Well, let me show the contract to my financial advisor and my attorney, and I'll get back to you."

Said Outfield, "There is no contract, just some paperwork required by the state of Massachusetts. Besides, I only get paid to talk to you once. Once I get up from the table, the deal disappears."

I pointed out to him that my father had warned me about guys like him!

Michael

You had the contract in front of you ready to sign. How did they stop you from leaving with it?

 

[jannibaby]

Wireless internet access

One of the last posts regarding wi-fi caught my eye. When we were at Southcape 7/4 - 7/11, the wireless wasn't working (we expected that). We called right away anyway to see what they had to say. They said, any day. About 5 minutes later someone from the front desk called back and asked if we had a laptop with us and if we had checked to see if there was a connection. We said that we had. They said well it is up and certain units are able to connect. Towards the end of the week, we were able to see Southcape as a very weak connection but it was secured and we didn't have the password. To be honest, we didn't call to get it the next day as it slipped our minds.

We did speak to Rosaleen about it (before we saw the network available). She said the person who was installing it had surgery. We right away said that is what you said in May at the annual meeting. She said that the guy had a tendon replaced in his foot and it had gotten infected, etc. etc. She did say that some of the units were able to connect (perhaps Condo II).

Anyway, just wanted to share that we could see a network. If and when it is up and running, if the signal strength is that poor, it won't be usable anyway. It is quite troubling that it is not up yet.

Janice

 

[Classylassy523]

FAC is another exchange opportunity for members. A BoD can make a decision to market products to their members.

But in this case, I think they would point to their right to access the list as the developer, rather than as a member of the Board.

There is a conflict of interest issue, but that is not exactly the silver bullet. The By-laws recognize and allow for a conflict of interest to exist. The developer has an inherent conflict of interest for example.

It would seem to me that when the developer is selling deeded weeks there would be no conflict of interest. That is, or should be, the purpose of the developer.

Selling another company's product totally, and NOT selling deeded weeks , seems to me a purposeful conflict of interest. These people make NO effort to sell deeded weeks. I don't care what Cliff Hagberg says. Here it is August and even the website has NO information about purchasing deeded weeks. If Outfield Marketing was making an honest effort to sell deeded weeks they would not be telling prospective customers that deeded weeks aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

The funds earned from the sale of these FAC memberships ... who gets that money? Does it go into the resort's coffers or do they go into the pockets of Outfield Marketing and NEVS?

Maybe if Cliff was providing the transparency he has been touting for months, these questions wouldn't have to be asked.

Ethics ... that isn't something we will see from this management team. Lots of semantics, talking out of both sides of their mouths, stonewalling and totally ignoring the owners ... that seems to be in abundance.

Jean

 

[Classylassy523]

Mayor/Cape/Viv/Mass/NEVS and whoever else Cliff invents

Don't let Mayor get to you. Mayor is Cliff or one of Cliff's cronies IMO.

The Mayor didn't get to me ... but I think I got to him. Seems to me I might have touched a nerve with what I said. Why else would there be that kind of reaction?

Jean

 

[ecwinch]

It would seem to me that when the developer is selling deeded weeks there would be no conflict of interest. That is, or should be, the purpose of the developer.

Selling another company's product totally, and NOT selling deeded weeks , seems to me a purposeful conflict of interest. These people make NO effort to sell deeded weeks. I don't care what Cliff Hagberg says. Here it is August and even the website has NO information about purchasing deeded weeks. If Outfield Marketing was making an honest effort to sell deeded weeks they would not be telling prospective customers that deeded weeks aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

The funds earned from the sale of these FAC memberships ... who gets that money? Does it go into the resort's coffers or do they go into the pockets of Outfield Marketing and NEVS?

Maybe if Cliff was providing the transparency he has been touting for months, these questions wouldn't have to be asked.

Ethics ... that isn't something we will see from this management team. Lots of semantics, talking out of both sides of their mouths, stonewalling and totally ignoring the owners ... that seems to be in abundance.

Jean

So, you feel that it inappropriate for the developer to offer different options for owners to use their timeshare? It really is commonplace in the timeshare industry. For instance, my South Padre timeshare offers the option to convert into RCI Points. Some resorts get a small cut, but it is not a 100% rule. Generally speaking the fee goes to the pts developer and the sales agent.

I am on the same side as you are, but would you feel the same way if Outfield was not using questionable sales tactics, and the points system was Disney Vacation Club?

 

[tombo]

So, you feel that it inappropriate for the developer to offer different options for owners to use their timeshare? It really is commonplace in the timeshare industry. For instance, my South Padre timeshare offers the option to convert into RCI Points. Some resorts get a small cut, but it is not a 100% rule. Generally speaking the fee goes to the pts developer and the sales agent.

I am on the same side as you are, but would you feel the same way if Outfield was not using questionable sales tactics, and the points system was Disney Vacation Club?

Bad examples IMO.

Yes DVC points would be a valuable option since they are expensive to buy, they rent for high dollars, and are very hard to trade for. Festiva points are cheap if not free to buy resale, the resorts don't typically rent for high dollars, and you can easily trade for off season Festiva resorts.

Yes RCI points are also a good option for owners who like to travel for stays of shorter than a week and who want to trade for some locations that are hard to get through RCI weeks, but unlike Festiva Points you remain the owner of your deeded week if you join the RCI points program. You can opt out of the RCI points program altogether or you have the option to use the week you own every year. With Festiv points you are stuck as a member for 30 years, you give up all rights to your deeded week, and you are not even guaranteed to ever be able to stay a week at the resort you used to own ever again.

The developer is not offering any sort of decent option to owners, the developer is offering Outfield,NEVMS, and Festiva the opportunity to make money while screwing owners out of deeded weeks that they have paid for and own. I know you are playing devil's advocate, but in this case no one wins but the devil's triumvirate of Festiva/Outfield/NEVMS when an owner permanently gives up their deeded week and $3000 of their hard earned money for Festiva points that are almost worthless.

 

[ecwinch]

The developer is not offering any sort of decent option to owners, the developer is offering Outfield,NEVMS, and Festiva the opportunity to make money while screwing owners out of deeded weeks that they have paid for and own. I know you are playing devil's advocate, but in this case no one wins but the devil's triumvirate of Festiva/Outfield/NEVMS when an owner permanently gives up their deeded week and $3000 of their hard earned money for Festiva points that are almost worthless.

You know my examples are only to illustrate that the practice of offering owners other ways to use their week is commonplace in the industry, and the opinion that she would not be questioning that practice if the sales methods were professional and the product worthwhile.

She seemed to be questioning the legality of the whole arrangement. I was not comparing Festiva to DVC.

ps. I think we need to lure Cliff back here....

 

[SCapeOwnersRUS]

It would seem to me that when the developer is selling deeded weeks there would be no conflict of interest. That is, or should be, the purpose of the developer.

Selling another company's product totally, and NOT selling deeded weeks , seems to me a purposeful conflict of interest. These people make NO effort to sell deeded weeks. I don't care what Cliff Hagberg says. Here it is August and even the website has NO information about purchasing deeded weeks. If Outfield Marketing was making an honest effort to sell deeded weeks they would not be telling prospective customers that deeded weeks aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

The funds earned from the sale of these FAC memberships ... who gets that money? Does it go into the resort's coffers or do they go into the pockets of Outfield Marketing and NEVS?

Maybe if Cliff was providing the transparency he has been touting for months, these questions wouldn't have to be asked.

Ethics ... that isn't something we will see from this management team. Lots of semantics, talking out of both sides of their mouths, stonewalling and totally ignoring the owners ... that seems to be in abundance.

Jean

THE MONEY ACCORDING TO THE OUTFIELD REP GOES SOME TO FESTIVA SOME TO OUTFIELD AND SOME TO NEVS

 

[SCapeOwnersRUS]

HOW ABOUT A rebate for no wireless internet ???????

One of the last posts regarding wi-fi caught my eye. When we were at Southcape 7/4 - 7/11, the wireless wasn't working (we expected that). We called right away anyway to see what they had to say. They said, any day. About 5 minutes later someone from the front desk called back and asked if we had a laptop with us and if we had checked to see if there was a connection. We said that we had. They said well it is up and certain units are able to connect. Towards the end of the week, we were able to see Southcape as a very weak connection but it was secured and we didn't have the password. To be honest, we didn't call to get it the next day as it slipped our minds.

We did speak to Rosaleen about it (before we saw the network available). She said the person who was installing it had surgery. We right away said that is what you said in May at the annual meeting. She said that the guy had a tendon replaced in his foot and it had gotten infected, etc. etc. She did say that some of the units were able to connect (perhaps Condo II).

Anyway, just wanted to share that we could see a network. If and when it is up and running, if the signal strength is that poor, it won't be usable anyway. It is quite troubling that it is not up yet.

Janice

We paid $ 400.00 per week or so to have among other things wireless internet.
The guy had surgery give me a break!!!! One guy handling the set up of wireless intenet.. WE SHOULD ALL BE ENTITLED TO A REBATE FOR THE LACK OF WIRELESS INTERNET FOR THE WEEKS WE WERE THERE.

WE WERE THERE WEEKS AFTER YOU AND TOLD THE SAME STORIES BUT THERE WAS NO WIRELESS INTERNET...

HOW ABOUT A REBATE TO ALL OF THE OWNERS WHO PAID FOR IT AND DIDNT GET IT ?????

 

[Classylassy523]

So, you feel that it inappropriate for the developer to offer different options for owners to use their timeshare? It really is commonplace in the timeshare industry. For instance, my South Padre timeshare offers the option to convert into RCI Points. Some resorts get a small cut, but it is not a 100% rule. Generally speaking the fee goes to the pts developer and the sales agent.

I am on the same side as you are, but would you feel the same way if Outfield was not using questionable sales tactics, and the points system was Disney Vacation Club?

I don't have a problem with offering different options, but they are NOT doing that. Where are these different options? They are offering FAC tied in with II, PERIOD! When RCI is brought up they lie and say RCI is out of the picture.

To me it is insulting and a slap in the face that they are arrogant enough to not even make a half-hearted effort to even appear to want to sell deeded weeks.

These people are doing what is best for them and have no regard for anyone else.

Jean

 

[Classylassy523]

Cliff/Mayor/Viv/Capeguitarguy/Massman/ et al

ps. I think we need to lure Cliff back here....

Cliff is here .... I think his latest alter ego is Mayor with an aim to distract from a thread when topics get too close to the target and make him nervous.

 

[ecwinch]

Cliff is here .... I think his latest alter ego is Mayor with an aim to distract from a thread when topics get too close to the target and make him nervous.

I do not think it is Cliff unless he had a lobotomy. Cliff's posts were a lot more intelligent and well written. Cliff bothered to actual make a point and express an opinion.

Of maybe it is Cliff, and his partners gave him one to shut him up....