[2008] Southcape Resort

[FestivaRep]

I haven't posted on this thread before, but many of you will already know me from other threads. If you're not familiar with me, please feel free to look at my previous posts. I just wanted to say hello and that I will try to be active on this thread as well.

Since this is specifically about Southcape, i will address one issue that I was specifically asked to address on the board: to clarify the relationship between our company and the two resorts in Mass. Festiva Resorts does not own or manage either Southcape or Sandcastle. Further, we do not own NEVS or Outfield. Outfield is the company we have hired to offer optional upgrades to the Festiva Adventure Club program from a deeded week.

If you have specific questions or concerns you can post them here and I will try to answer them, or you can send an e-mail with detailed information to comments@festivaresorts.com.

Thanks.

 

[Sou13]

The financial report

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Sou13,

I'm posting this message publicly because you don't have mailbox space for a private reply.

What kind of reply were you anticipating?

BTW, I agree with Janice's post. Also, I might consider a letter to the AG (that current management is not adhering to the master deed) but your sample related to Sandcastle, not Southcape. What are the features of the Master Deed that you would like to compel management to comply?

- bhound54​

You said you were at the meeting. Did you pick up the financial report packet? Have you looked it over? Would you like more specific info concerning these reports?

I'm still studying the Master Deed and whether NEVS might be in violation, without the benefit of legal counsel. Do you need a copy of the Master Deed?

 

[ecwinch]

Also, FestivaRep has provided a statement denying any involvement that Festiva may have had in the financing of NEVS/Outfield's purchase of the resorts.

I withdraw my previous assertion along those lines.

 

[ecwinch]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Sou13,

I'm posting this message publicly because you don't have mailbox space for a private reply.

What kind of reply were you anticipating?

BTW, I agree with Janice's post. Also, I might consider a letter to the AG (that current management is not adhering to the master deed) but your sample related to Sandcastle, not Southcape. What are the features of the Master Deed that you would like to compel management to comply?

- bhound54​

You said you were at the meeting. Did you pick up the financial report packet? Have you looked it over? Would you like more specific info concerning these reports?

I'm still studying the Master Deed and whether NEVS might be in violation, without the benefit of legal counsel. Do you need a copy of the Master Deed?

Is not the issue of the developer inventory being exempt from m/f the only issue that involves a violation of the Master Deed?

I know it has been some time since we discussed those issues surrounding the Master Deed, but that is the only one I am aware of.

The issue of the developer inventory being exempt from the special assessment is supported by the Master Deed. Unjust, but supported. As is their authority to control the HOA - given that the developer control provisions are so poorly formed.

And if you extend the question to that of the by-laws, then the members list.

 

[Fig]

Also, FestivaRep has provided a statement denying any involvement that Festiva may have had in the financing of NEVS/Outfield's purchase of the resorts.

I withdraw my previous assertion along those lines.

Eric, this whole relationship is still a mystery to me. Now Festiva is postioning itself as hands off company that HIRED Outfield third party. Outfield is a marketing company...how are they entitled to the HOA list to sell for the company that hired them? This seems to put Outfield in left field and yet they have front and center access to people's addresses, their deed info, home phone numbers, etc. so that they can fly around the country deeds and hand and sell the company that HIRED them. Something does not add up. I respect how Festiva rep is handling herself here...but the pieces just don't fit together.

 

[ecwinch]

Eric, this whole relationship is still a mystery to me. Now Festiva is postioning itself as hands off company that HIRED Outfield third party. Outfield is a marketing company...how are they entitled to the HOA list to sell for the company that hired them? This seems to put Outfield in left field and yet they have front and center access to people's addresses, their deed info, home phone numbers, etc. so that they can fly around the country deeds and hand and sell the company that HIRED them. Something does not add up. I respect how Festiva rep is handling herself here...but the pieces just don't fit together.

Perhaps FestivaRep will respond, but my understanding was she stated eariler that Festiva DID NOT provide the list to Outfield.

Outfield is co-owner of the developer rights. They have access to the list in that capacity.

 

[Fig]

Paging Sou13

Hey, Sou...can you find out from any of your Peppertree contacts how Festiva leveraged its way in there? It seems in MA they have Cliff who teamed up with Outfield...so they get 1. a salesforce to sell points and 2. someone to give them access to the HOA deed owner info. 3. Someone with a real estate background who can sign the deeds over to the trust. Without that kind of an infrastruture in place, it would seem to be hard to get into a property and sell points. It may have been covered here...but I forget?

 

[Fig]

Perhaps FestivaRep will respond, but my understanding was she stated eariler that Festiva DID NOT provide the list to Outfield.

Outfield is co-owner of the developer rights. They have access to the list in that capacity.

Thanks, Eric...is hard to see how Outfield Marketing is developing anything. Two trustee are listed in TX, the other in MD. Cliff is making developer decisions and doing foot work but he is not part of Outfield. Outfield was hired to sell points according to FestivaRep...so by throwing a few names on the Trustee list they get full access to owners. Still wondering what they used as collateral...that $1,400 little building in TX they list as their sales office sure didn't get them a $2.5 million loan. A conundrum indeed.

 

[e.bram]

Fig:
Why do you think banks needed a bailout.

 

[TomBenoit]

FestivaRep - Here are some questions

OK FestivaRep, perhaps you can provide an answer to the following:

Who is Jonathan Brown and did he tell us the truth?

He showed up at our house with a copy of our deed to Southcape back in December 2008. He informed us that (some is scratched out on paper):

1) Festiva had purchased Southcape
2) Maintenance fees were going to $750/year
3) The ENTIRE septec system needed to be replaced for $5-10mm
4) There would be a $500/yr assesment for at least 5 years until
a) Septic is paid off
b) There is a $2mm reserve
5) All of Soutcape was switching to II
6) We could avoid the increased maint/assesments by 'upgrading' to Festiva
a) Year 1 of II would be included
b) Year 1 of Festiva maint would be included
c) We could 'opt out' of Festiva without penalty - anytime

 

[Classylassy523]

Just curious ...

I was just up on the Festiva website. Clicked on the NEW, LATEST resort that has been added to the Festiva corral of resorts ... Southcape Resort and Club. Now, I thought this was the Southcape Resort and Club in Mashpee, Massachusetts. It is said to be on Cape Cod. Read the following --

Festiva Resorts
This is a new website for Festiva Resorts’ Southcape Resort & Club. Here you can find everything you need to know about our fantastic property in Mashpee, Maine. Please feel free to navigate back to Festiva Resorts’ main site to learn more about the Festiva Family by clicking here.

We also have exciting features exclusively for our members, including a secure password-protected section that allows members to pay maintenance fees, request reservations and more!

If you have any comments, suggestions, etc., please click here to send us an email or post comments under any article of this website.

Okay ... this enquiring mind wants to know:
A) Did they move the Southcape Resort? And, when?
B) Did they move Cape Cod? Did they hook a chain on at Race Point and haul it up along the coast?
C) Just where is Mashpee, Maine? Is it near the ocean?

Maybe you better get the Maine AG on board and up to speed on what has been going on.

I think Festiva needs to hire a good proofreader!

Jean

 

[mweinberg]

Okay ... this enquiring mind wants to know:
A) Did they move the Southcape Resort? And, when?
B) Did they move Cape Cod? Did they hook a chain on at Race Point and haul it up along the coast?
C) Just where is Mashpee, Maine? Is it near the ocean?


Jean

The more important question, I think, is just HOW did Southcape become a member of Festiva's Family of Resorts. Did the Southcape homeowners vote on this affiliation? Are the homeowners receiving anything from Festiva in return? Does Festiva own a majority of the weeks at Southcape?

I don't understand how Festiva can offer its members an opportunity to visit Southcape unless they own a significant inventory there.

Michael
(Owner at Sandcastle)

 

[Classylassy523]

The more important question, I think, is just HOW did Southcape become a member of Festiva's Family of Resorts. Did the Southcape homeowners vote on this affiliation? Are the homeowners receiving anything from Festiva in return? Does Festiva own a majority of the weeks at Southcape?

I don't understand how Festiva can offer its members an opportunity to visit Southcape unless they own a significant inventory there.

Michael
(Owner at Sandcastle)

Michael ...

Festiva makes it clear they do not own Southcape. They list it as an affiliation with their Festiva Adventure Club.

Interestingly enough ... Sandcastle is not listed at all. With the aggressive selling that has been going on for almost a year, you would think it would be up there along with Southcape.

But then again, Southcape is on Cape Cod in Maine and Sandcastle is on Cape Cod in Massachusetts (or at least it was the last time I checked).

Jean

 

[e.bram]

IMHO:
Festiva will not be a major player in SC. I doubt in many(any) owners of prime weeks will be suckered in to points. In this economy the seasonal owners by and large are probably looking to sell(get out) and won't investing any money in their worthless(and less) units. In Newport, where Wyndham manages mant TSes, they have closed their points conversion operation. (no more freebies for moocher me).
The real problem in NEVS not paying m/fs, which could raise m/ss to the point where owners bail out, sending SC into death spiral as a TS. Those who hang in(including NEVS) will do OK since the real estate is more valuable not being a TS.
NEVS waiver of m/fs must be addressed soon in court. All TS owners in Ma should chip in a take this issue to court ASAP.

 

[Sou13]

Welcome, Tom Benoit!

I'm glad you finally found us and sorry that I never got back to you. I assumed that I had caught you home by some miracle on a Saturday afternoon and didn't want to press my luck.

Now that you've found us, are you happy with the Festiva Adventure Club? I already know the answer, but would rather have you tell it.

 

[Sou13]

Peppertree

Hey, Sou...can you find out from any of your Peppertree contacts how Festiva leveraged its way in there? It seems in MA they have Cliff who teamed up with Outfield...so they get 1. a salesforce to sell points and 2. someone to give them access to the HOA deed owner info. 3. Someone with a real estate background who can sign the deeds over to the trust. Without that kind of an infrastruture in place, it would seem to be hard to get into a property and sell points. It may have been covered here...but I forget?

I'd like to hear an answer to this from FestivaRep! I requested to join the group so that I could get some insight into how Festiva affects timeshare owners, but it was the EVTC that was taken over, not just a resort or two in their case. Some settlement has been reached which seems to require that it be confidential and that all negative comments about Festiva be retracted. As a result, the group is nearly dead.

 

[TomBenoit]

Festiva Experience

I'm glad you finally found us and sorry that I never got back to you. I assumed that I had caught you home by some miracle on a Saturday afternoon and didn't want to press my luck.

Now that you've found us, are you happy with the Festiva Adventure Club? I already know the answer, but would rather have you tell it.

The only experience I have had so far with Festiva was when I contacted them to get the forms to cancel membership. After quite a challenge getting anyone to answer the phone, I finally got someone. They indicated that I could cancel - but - I would have to be current and pay the 2009 MF. I explained that 1) I had been told that 2009 MF was included as part of the 'upgrade' cost, and 2) I had no intention of using the resorts. Their answer - too bad, so sad, show it to us in the fine print. In short, I have paid the 2009 fees and received the forms. I am figuring out if I can at least use the 2009 II exchange (I have lots of good experienec with RCI but II does not seem to be as customer frielndly). I am also wondering if I can 'sell' the Festiva points since I see Festiva points for sale on REDWEEK.COM.

I will be real interested in seeing if FESTIVAREP answers my post.

 

[Sou13]

II Exchange

When you convert your week to FAC points you have to spend the points at Festiva Resorts or have Festiva deposit a week into II for you. This seems to be a problem for any FAC member whose week has already gone by, especially if it's a "gold" week because 2009 is more than 1/2 gone.

I'm in contact with an owner who has never even belonged to II let alone exchanged her summer week, and now she has to spend her points somewhere before the end of the year. If she wants to exchange through II there has to be a week deposited into II before she can do that. You don't automatically get right to first use of the week you turned over to the Trust. You have to request it no less than 12 months nor more than 13 months in advance! That means that your 2009 Southcape week went to another FAC member, not to you.

 

[TomBenoit]

When you convert your week to FAC points you have to spend the points at Festiva Resorts or have Festiva deposit a week into II for you. This seems to be a problem for any FAC member whose week has already gone by, especially if it's a "gold" week because 2009 is more than 1/2 gone.

I'm in contact with an owner who has never even belonged to II let alone exchanged her summer week, and now she has to spend her points somewhere before the end of the year. If she wants to exchange through II there has to be a week deposited into II before she can do that. You don't automatically get right to first use of the week you turned over to the Trust. You have to request it no less than 12 months nor more than 13 months in advance! That means that your 2009 Southcape week went to another FAC member, not to you.

Help me understand. Does this mean that, since the deal was done in December, I have no option,other than to use the points at a Festiva Resort because a request was not made to enter a week into II? If so - then the 2009 II memebership is a total farce since I will not be able to use it. That is NOT what was explained. The indicated that out Festiva points are II points.

 

[tombo]

Help me understand. Does this mean that, since the deal was done in December, I have no option,other than to use the points at a Festiva Resort because a request was not made to enter a week into II? If so - then the 2009 II memebership is a total farce since I will not be able to use it. That is NOT what was explained. The indicated that out Festiva points are II points.

You can use your FAC points at a Festiva resort, or you can let Festiva deposit whatever week they feel like depositing with II to establish you a deposit to be used for an II trade. Sou is right, at this late date there are very few (if any) prime weeks they could deposit with II for you, even if they actually wanted to deposit a prime week into your II account. You are most likely screwed for your 2009 week, especially if you are filling out paperwork to quit FAC.

The salesperson lied. Your FAC points are Festiva points which are only good at Festiva points resorts BASED ON AVAILABILITY. You can request summer on the cape through Festiva, but there are very few summer prime weeks owned by Festiva (thank goodness most owners of prime weeks don't convert to FAC), so a lot of FAC members are fighting over the very limited Festiva owned prime weeks. You will get some 2009 II trade power if you joined II, but since you haven't deposited your Festiva points with II at this late date (near the end of summer vacation), you will not have access to much of II's inventory. I would love for some FAC members to give us personal experiences, but IMO you will never get a great II trade using Festiva points. I doubt that Festive will deposit one of their limited number of prime weeks with II for you because I would assume that Festiva will keep it's limited prime inventory for FAC members to trade for internally. II is like RCI, if you deposit a weak week, only weak weaks will be available to exchange for. The exchange power with II for the week Festiva will deposit for you will probably be crappy with very few good resorts and very few good weeks showing availability based on the Festiva deposit in your II account.

Basically from your description almost nothing they told you at the Festiva sales presentation was true. We on TUG are so sorry for you and we constantly post here to try and prevent others from falling victim to Festiva's lies. Join Sou in the lawsuit and file a complaint with the MA Attorney General.

 

[Sou13]

Here's how Festiva/II works

The sad truth for TomBenoit is that he was exchanging through RCI and no longer has that option. He has to spend his points at a Festiva Resort or get Festiva to find a comparable week (points-wise) to deposit for him into II.

The former red week owner I cited above has shared her experience with me. She looked in the II catalog (which the salesperson never left as part of her $79 leather binder package) and found a friend who would be willing to visit a resort somewhere in Arizona in November. She tried to do the exchange online to save $10 but couldn't do it because, although she had a confirmation # from Festiva, she still needed a resort/week to deposit. When Festiva deposited a week (worth 4500 points, leaving her 300 to carry over to 2010) she was able to get confirmation of the exchange and proceed to book airfare etc.

Never having used II for exchange, she's excited about the upcoming trip, but why, I must ask, did she have to forfeit her deed to her "red" week at Southcape in order to do this? In my opinion, Festiva should be paying her for her week! She can no longer rent it or use it, her MF for 4800 Festiva points is higher than the MF for Southcape, and she had to pay $3185 to Outfield Marketing for something she could have done for less than $250 (I'm not sure how much the annual membership in II + the exchange fee comes to)!

 

[Carolinian]

What is really outrageous is management which would give a membership list to these non-member scam artists at Outfield who lie to members to try to take their property away from them for worthless points, but will not give it to actual resort members with legitimate concerns about resort governance that they want to communicate with other members about.

Eric, this whole relationship is still a mystery to me. Now Festiva is postioning itself as hands off company that HIRED Outfield third party. Outfield is a marketing company...how are they entitled to the HOA list to sell for the company that hired them? This seems to put Outfield in left field and yet they have front and center access to people's addresses, their deed info, home phone numbers, etc. so that they can fly around the country deeds and hand and sell the company that HIRED them. Something does not add up. I respect how Festiva rep is handling herself here...but the pieces just don't fit together.

 

[Classylassy523]

Sou13 ...

This is a good example of why those salespeople do not give owners any kind of information or brochures before they sign on the dotted line. If any one had paper work with definitive information FAC would no longer exist because people would not be giving up their deeded weeks. All it takes is some quiet time to think and reason it out, put the numbers together, look at the positive and negative sides of the points system, and deeded owners would keep their weeks.

Heck ... you can go up on Ebay and other places and buy weeks for pennies, pay the MFs annually, and have those weeks to trade through RCI, etc. Still cheaper than FAC and probably less headaches.

Jean

 

[Carolinian]

The way some of this ''marketing'' is done for points scheme ''conversions'', and this is not the only one where it is done, someone ought to be talking to some prosecutors. I suspect that many states have an equivalent of North Carolina's felony statute for Obtaining Property by False Pretenses. You need to have someone look at the laws in the state where it occured to see if there is any way to go after the perps.

You can use your FAC points at a Festiva resort, or you can let Festiva deposit whatever week they feel like depositing with II to establish you a deposit to be used for an II trade. Sou is right, at this late date there are very few (if any) prime weeks they could deposit with II for you, even if they actually wanted to deposit a prime week into your II account. You are most likely screwed for your 2009 week, especially if you are filling out paperwork to quit FAC.

The salesperson lied. Your FAC points are Festiva points which are only good at Festiva points resorts BASED ON AVAILABILITY. You can request summer on the cape through Festiva, but there are very few summer prime weeks owned by Festiva (thank goodness most owners of prime weeks don't convert to FAC), so a lot of FAC members are fighting over the very limited Festiva owned prime weeks. You will get some 2009 II trade power if you joined II, but since you haven't deposited your Festiva points with II at this late date (near the end of summer vacation), you will not have access to much of II's inventory. I would love for some FAC members to give us personal experiences, but IMO you will never get a great II trade using Festiva points. I doubt that Festive will deposit one of their limited number of prime weeks with II for you because I would assume that Festiva will keep it's limited prime inventory for FAC members to trade for internally. II is like RCI, if you deposit a weak week, only weak weaks will be available to exchange for. The exchange power with II for the week Festiva will deposit for you will probably be crappy with very few good resorts and very few good weeks showing availability based on the Festiva deposit in your II account.

Basically from your description almost nothing they told you at the Festiva sales presentation was true. We on TUG are so sorry for you and we constantly post here to try and prevent others from falling victim to Festiva's lies. Join Sou in the lawsuit and file a complaint with the MA Attorney General.

 

[Classylassy523]

What is really outrageous is management which would give a membership list to these non-member scam artists at Outfield who lie to members to try to take their property after from them for worthless points, but will not give it to actual resort members with legitimate concerns about resort governance that they want to communicate with other members about.

Management didn't have to give it to them. They are on the Board of Trustees ... they have their own copy. But, a good question, is it legal for a member of the Board to use the list of owners to sell them anything that is not directly a part of the resort? Can a member of the Board sell anything at all to people on that list? Isn't there a question of ethics or conflict of interest?

Jean