[2008] Southcape Resort

[Fig]

Dear Cathy (Fig),

Outfield has many sales offices throughout the world. The Texas office is one of our smaller offices and slipped my mind until you reminded me of it's existence. You should visit our Chicago office in the Sears Tower, our Trump Tower location in New York, our overseas offices in Buckingham Palace, the Louvre, The Taj Mahal and my personal favorite office which is located in the Great Pyramids. We have hundreds of offices in hundreds of countries.

I did forget to file the change of directors form, so what? I really feel that I can do anything I want with regards to Southscape and Sandcastle without bothering with uneeded details like the State's laws, rules, and regulations. I am omnipotent. I will assess when I want, I will assess whatever amount per week that I want to assess, and I will upgrade or not upgrade anything as I see fit. You as an owner will pay or I will sick the collections dept on you.

Capeguitarguy is my identical twin, not me. Capeguitarguy joined with Sou's group not me. Viv is my identical twin sister. WFwienstein is also an identical twin brother. I am one of the Octomom's 8 children. We all share a single computer and a single guitar. Capeguitarguy joined Sou's group because even my identical twin brother thinks that I am ripping owners at Southscape and Sandcastle off. I am ripping everyone off, he is correct. I would like to thank my brother for tipping me off about possible actions a couple of disgruntled owners might try to take against me.

The majority of owners are very happy with me, NEVVSS, Outlaw Mktg, and Festival points. Most owners don't want to have a board elected by them, they want me to appoint myself and my business partners as trustees. Most owners want to be assessed with no input. Most owners want their MF's to increase drastically each year. Most owners are very happy to give me total control of their resort and most owners want me to spend as I see fit. Most owners are glad that I contribute nothing on the weeks I own to the upkeep or upgrading of my resort. You and Sou are in the minority. I talk to owners every day and they LOVE ME!!!!!!! I am the greatest. Drink the Kool-aid.

Sincerely,

Fake Cliff

OMG, Tombo, I needed a good laugh, thanks! Cathy

 

[Fig]

Now we should start a pool on which of his alternate identities will appear and attempt to explain this one.

My money is on a new "owner" appearing, and one who loves all the changes that Cliff has made.

He/she will have PHD in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering and will offer a scientific explanation for the overlap of IP addresses and that it is commonplace.

I seriously doubt that Cliff will have the moral fortitude to reappear, unless it is in a drive-by posting....

A PHD in Computer Science would be a hard one for Cliff to pull off. I don't think he was kidding when he accused us through Wfweinstein of coining the phrase "Troll"...not knowing that it is a standard internet term.

The internet and Google will make it harder and harder for Outfield Marketing, Festiva and folks like Cliff to do business as usual. People start web pages, complain on boards, access public documents and soon a story emerges that the creators have no ability to alter.

Others go to the internet, before they are scamed, see the scam for what it is and say "no thank you"...like these posters discussing our friends at Festiva.
http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-888-536-3314

 

[TUGBrian]

added note...

capeguitarguy also registered from the same IP as massman631...

and also NEVMSLCC has also posted from that IP. (mass. comcast)

 

[TUGBrian]

its is also important to note that after going through this thread again (all 800+ unique posts) that some of the comments from both sides are borderline if not over the line of violating the "be courteous" rule on TUG.

Please keep personal comments and or attacks to yourself, and stick with the continued public discussion of the topic(s) at hand.

futher posts containing personal attacks will be removed.

 

[ecwinch]

its is also important to note that after going through this thread again (all 800+ unique posts) that some of the comments from both sides are borderline if not over the line of violating the "be courteous" rule on TUG.

Please keep personal comments and or attacks to yourself, and stick with the continued public discussion of the topic(s) at hand.

futher posts containing personal attacks will be removed.

I agree. The primary contributors to this thread need to make sure the discussion is fact based and not personal in nature.

 

[bhound54]

Enough of fake and over-the-top posts

Hello Friends,

I agree with TUGBrian and Eric. The tone of many of the messages and "fake replies" are over the top, increase clutter, and reduce the usefulness of this list as a way to keep updated on our resort.

For the record, my wife and I own two weeks (Unit 6, weeks 34-35) and have been going to Southcape for 25 years, never trading our units. We have attended several owners meetings including the last one. While none of us are happy about the increase in the MF and the special assessment, we were concerned about the condition of the resort. My wife and I applaud the efforts of the current resort management in tackling the renovations, as well as the sewage and parking lot suit.

- Bhound54

 

[tombo]

Even in his supposed absence, I somehow feel that Cliff is still here with us........

As I said on a previous post, I will say hi to Cliff every now and then in case he is visiting us occassionally.

Hi CliffVivMassCapeStein, etc. wherever you are.

 

[tombo]

Now we should start a pool on which of his alternate identities will appear and attempt to explain this one.

My money is on a new "owner" appearing, and one who loves all the changes that Cliff has made
.

Do we have a winner aready?

 

[Fig]

its is also important to note that after going through this thread again (all 800+ unique posts) that some of the comments from both sides are borderline if not over the line of violating the "be courteous" rule on TUG.

Please keep personal comments and or attacks to yourself, and stick with the continued public discussion of the topic(s) at hand.

futher posts containing personal attacks will be removed.

Thanks, Brian. You may want to at least keep a backup of the posts you remove...even if Cliff calls as he has done in the past and begs you to remove his posts. Any lawyer pursuing the case might find it of interest. Has Cliff has engaged in a internet ploy called "astroturfing?" A firm in Waltham, MA, a few miles from Cliff recently was slapped with a heafty fine from the New York AG Andrew Cuomo for the practice. Here's the article.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/07/16/new-york-settles-with-firm-posting-fake-reviews

I have tried to keep my posts factual and in a kidding tone when I took issue with Cliff. I apologize if I have veered from that intent. That said, this thread has got to be one of the more interesting uncoverings of developer tactics on TUG or the internet. There it is...the whole story from a puzzling letter on blank letterhead asking for money for Southcape to lots of facts about the parties involved and their stake in the deal...right down to the developer faking posts in support of his tactics. I am waiting for the movie.

 

[tombo]

That said, this thread has got to be one of the more interesting uncoverings of developer tactics on TUG or the internet. There it is...the whole story from a puzzling letter on blank letterhead asking for money for Southcape to lots of facts about the parties involved and their stake in the deal...right down to the developer faking posts in support of his tactics. I am waiting for the movie.

Top 10 titles for the movie:

1.The many faces of Capeguitarguy. A story about multiple personality disorders on the web.

2. Cliffgate

3. NEVVS in Never was, Never will be land.

4. Delusions of Grandeur

5. Imposters in the Outfield

6. Un -True Lies

7. Catch me if you can. The story of Capeguitarguy

8. Don't haggle with the Hag

9. The fleecing of Southscape

10. The rise and fall of my credibility. A True Story from the annals of TUG.

Add your own titles to the list. Who will play the lead character? Who will play all of the imaginary characters? I guess the imaginary cast could be animated since there never was anything real about them anyway. This is a movie I will pay to see and I will own that DVD.

Bonus title:

11. Outfield's imaginary Field of Dreams

Brian, this is a humorous list based on the posts made on this thread. Like Letterman's top 10, it is purely for the sake of humor.

 

[JackB62]

Southcape Rental Income

I posted and rec'd this info on the Points System thread:

Bill4728 Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB62
I am a Southcape interval owner and I'd like it if someone can advise me on a points system question.

If I have Festiva points and I book a week at Southcape, what does Southcape get in the form of rental cash?

Does NEVMS just say, "thanks, you owe us 500 points." Or, does Festiva have to give Southcape a $ amount for the week?

Normally, with point systems, the system works like this:
- The owners in the point system, have their ownership rights transfered to the system. So when they reserve a week at one of the resorts, the systems uses one of the weeks that were transfered to them to fulfill the request. So Festiva wouldn't be renting a week from Southcape just using a week like they were the owner.

**I'm not sure this is true for Festiva but it is true for most all point systems.


PS Festiva can only allow reservations into a week which they have. So if all the summer week owners at the resorts say NO to festiva, then Festiva will not have any summer weeks and therefore can not allow a festiva owner to reserve a summer week.

**********************************************************

Now last year at Southcape, over $300,000 was income from rentals.
Cliff Hagberg has graciously decided to give our resort the rental income from the 500+ weeks he owns. But, think about it, if most of those weeks are used by Festiva, the resort will get very little rental income.

 

[Fig]

I posted and rec'd this info on the Points System thread:

Bill4728 Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB62
I am a Southcape interval owner and I'd like it if someone can advise me on a points system question.

If I have Festiva points and I book a week at Southcape, what does Southcape get in the form of rental cash?

Does NEVMS just say, "thanks, you owe us 500 points." Or, does Festiva have to give Southcape a $ amount for the week?

Normally, with point systems, the system works like this:
- The owners in the point system, have their ownership rights transfered to the system. So when they reserve a week at one of the resorts, the systems uses one of the weeks that were transfered to them to fulfill the request. So Festiva wouldn't be renting a week from Southcape just using a week like they were the owner.

**I'm not sure this is true for Festiva but it is true for most all point systems.


PS Festiva can only allow reservations into a week which they have. So if all the summer week owners at the resorts say NO to festiva, then Festiva will not have any summer weeks and therefore can not allow a festiva owner to reserve a summer week.

**********************************************************

Now last year at Southcape, over $300,000 was income from rentals.
Cliff Hagberg has graciously decided to give our resort the rental income from the 500+ weeks he owns. But, think about it, if most of those weeks are used by Festiva, the resort will get very little rental income.

I may be incorrect on this, but aren't NEVS owned weeks distinct from Festiva weeks? I thought Festiva weeks were weeks transfered to a trust only when Outfield Marketing succeeded in getting an owner to give up a deed? The NEVS inventory is off-season from what I gather and there is a question as to how much rental income will come from those weeks as there is very little demand for Cape accomodations in winter...their main value seems to be to control the resort, if I am reading other posts correctly. Any clarification is welcomed.

 

[ecwinch]

I posted and rec'd this info on the Points System thread:

Bill4728 Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB62
I am a Southcape interval owner and I'd like it if someone can advise me on a points system question.

If I have Festiva points and I book a week at Southcape, what does Southcape get in the form of rental cash?

Does NEVMS just say, "thanks, you owe us 500 points." Or, does Festiva have to give Southcape a $ amount for the week?

Normally, with point systems, the system works like this:
- The owners in the point system, have their ownership rights transfered to the system. So when they reserve a week at one of the resorts, the systems uses one of the weeks that were transfered to them to fulfill the request. So Festiva wouldn't be renting a week from Southcape just using a week like they were the owner.

**I'm not sure this is true for Festiva but it is true for most all point systems.


PS Festiva can only allow reservations into a week which they have. So if all the summer week owners at the resorts say NO to festiva, then Festiva will not have any summer weeks and therefore can not allow a festiva owner to reserve a summer week.

**********************************************************

Now last year at Southcape, over $300,000 was income from rentals.
Cliff Hagberg has graciously decided to give our resort the rental income from the 500+ weeks he owns. But, think about it, if most of those weeks are used by Festiva, the resort will get very little rental income.

Here is my personal opinion, based on the information available on this thread:

Cliff owns 500+ weeks. I suspect that the majority of that inventory are off-season weeks, that are marginally salable. So Cliff has an inherent challenge on how to monetize those weeks in order to recoup his investment.

This situation is the one faced by most of resort developers. So the smart guys have come up with a way - convert those weeks into points, and then in turn sell those points, rather than the underlying week. Now you can package enough points to effectively be selling a red summer week at Southcape. Only one problem - the points system would have few red summer weeks, since most of those weeks are held by fixed week owners. So the challenge is to get some desirable weeks into the pts system. How can we do that?

So here comes Outfield with the answer. They will fly around the country and convince owners of those desirable summer weeks to exchange their week for points. And reports received here are that they use questionable scare tactics to do so. And then Southcape would need to pay Outfield. So you come up with a conversion fee.

But wait - that would not make sense. Why would an owner of a desirable week convert into a points system, just so they could get that week back?

So here comes Festiva with the answer. They will convert the week into Festiva points, and then they can use those points at a number of excellent resorts in other locations.

So you have Outfield out collecting the "conversion fee" (their commission) for signing people up for Festiva. Festiva gets more inventory.

And when Festiva needs to sell points to new members or more points to existing members, then Cliff can convert his off-season inventory into Festiva points. One limitation of these points systems, is they have to hold enough fixed week inventory to back the points they are selling.

This in effect becomes the Ponzi scheme that we are warned about. In this whole process, no additional desirable weeks are created. You just a growing pool of owners competing for the same number of fixed weeks.

Owners think they are buying enough points to obtain a summer Cape Cod week, but it is an illusion. They are buying enough points to compete for that inventory, but like musical chairs, in that process there will be winners and losers.

 

[tombo]

I may be incorrect on this, but aren't NEVS owned weeks distinct from Festiva weeks? I thought Festiva weeks were weeks transfered to a trust only when Outfield Marketing succeeded in getting an owner to give up a deed? The NEVS inventory is off-season from what I gather and there is a question as to how much rental income will come from those weeks as there is very little demand for Cape accomodations in winter...their main value seems to be to control the resort, if I am reading other posts correctly. Any clarification is welcomed.

Now last year at Southcape, over $300,000 was income from rentals.
Cliff Hagberg has graciously decided to give our resort the rental income from the 500+ weeks he owns. But, think about it, if most of those weeks are used by Festiva, the resort will get very little rental income. .

I think that the $300,000 in come figure came from Cliff. We all know that figure is no where near correct if it came from Cliff. Since they will not give an audited accounting of the resorts revenues and expenses, why should any figure they spit out be believed?

From what we can ascertain, NEVS owns about 500 off season weeks which was the unsold inventory at the resort that NEVMS purchased. These weeks are not Festiva points and these weeks pay no MF's or assessments. Cliff allows the resort to get the rental income (which is probably minimal in reality) because if this thing goes to court he will have a harder time justifying not paying MF's or assessments on the weeks he owns if he is making rental income off of them. He will come way ahead if he saves paying the assessments and MF's on the weeks he owns by not making a little rental income.

This was not a gracious gift to the resort, this was a decision of which is cheaper for me IMO. It is cheaper to pay ZERO MF's or assessments on all the weeks he owns than to pay all the annual fees on all of his weeks and try to offset that expense with the limited income that his offseason rentals bring in. If he paid $600 in annual MF's per week it would cost him $300,000 a year. If he paid $800 per week in assessments it would cost him $400,000 a year. His generous donation is justifying him saving about $700,000 he owes the resort for weeks he owns. If he was paying what is owed on each week he owns there would probably not be any need for assessments. The owners are all subsidizing the weeks NEVS owns that pay nothing to maintain or upgrade the resort. There is nothing generous being done for owners at Southscape or Sandcastle by Festiva, Outfield, NEVS, or Cliff IMO.

 

[ecwinch]

I may be incorrect on this, but aren't NEVS owned weeks distinct from Festiva weeks? I thought Festiva weeks were weeks transfered to a trust only when Outfield Marketing succeeded in getting an owner to give up a deed? The NEVS inventory is off-season from what I gather and there is a question as to how much rental income will come from those weeks as there is very little demand for Cape accomodations in winter...their main value seems to be to control the resort, if I am reading other posts correctly. Any clarification is welcomed.

When Cliff converts the off-season inventory into Festiva points, he is not losing any control. The Festiva Trust would vote those weeks. Their goals are mutually aligned.

The plan is retain control of the resort, while converting his inventory into Festiva points that can be marketed by Outfield.

It really is genius when you think of it. I own 500 off-season weeks. They are really tough to sell though.

But those weeks represent enough points to convert them into large points packages that would allow the holder to obtain a prime summer week. So I can effectively market it has a prime summer week.

So instead of selling an off-season week (lets say 3000 Festiva pts), I can sell a 6000 pt Festiva package. And I can tell the buyer that you can reserve a prime summer week with your ownership.

The points system is effectively allowing Cliff to convert his off-season inventory into bright shiny prime season inventory. But it all hinges on his ability to convert some prime season owners into points. It would be a mis-representation to sell those points, if their was no summer inventory in the points system. So he has to get some conversions going to support the plan.

 

[Fig]

Here is my personal opinion, based on the information available on this thread:

One limitation of these points systems, is they have to hold enough fixed week inventory to back the points they are selling.

This in effect becomes the Ponzi scheme that we are warned about. In this whole process, no additional desirable weeks are created. You just a growing pool of owners competing for the same number of fixed weeks.

So in effect you still have 52 owners going after 52 weeks, the limitation being you are now competing with the owners of off-season weeks...kinda like the ol' Southwest Airlines cattle rush for seats rather than having off-season and on season deeded weeks? The extra owners are created when you have the resorts off-season inventory converted to points, correct? Don't in-season weeks cost more points?

Excellent explanation, Eric, I just want to be sure I am understanding it correctly.

 

[ecwinch]

So in effect you still have 52 owners going after 52 weeks, the limitation being you are now competing with the owners of off-season weeks...kinda like the ol' Southwest Airlines cattle rush for seats rather than having off-season and on season deeded weeks? The extra owners are created when you have the resorts off-season inventory converted to points, correct? Don't in-season weeks cost more points?

Excellent explanation, Eric, I just want to be sure I am understanding it correctly.

I think at Southcape, they only sell 51 weeks. But your analogy is correct.

The only difference is you probably sold everyone on the expectation that they would get a aisle or window seat. But the nature of the game, means someone has to use the middle seat.

But then they can just trade that middle seat for a chance to get a aisle seat at another resort in the Festiva system, or by using II or RCI.

Yes, the extra owners are created by converting off-season weeks into points. But after the conversion there is nothing to force you to sell points tied to a specific week. If you have a buyer for 6000 pts - enough to obtain a peak season week - then Cliff will give Festiva two off-seasons weeks @ 3000 pts each or three-weeks @ 2000 pts each. The buyer is receiving 6000 pts, where those points came from is immaterial. But it creates one more owner that is competing for a fixed number of in-season weeks.

If you could sell an in-season week for $10,000, but only get $500 for an off-season week, would you not do this? It becomes 2+2=10.

If all I have to sell is fixed weeks, I cannot do this. But allow me to convert my weeks into points, and then the sky's the limit.

 

[Carolinian]

This is essentially what Peppertree / Equivest did at Outer Banks Beach Club I and II. The resorts were mostly sold out in desirable weeks, so they moved to selling points instead. Their remaining inventory was mostly off season. They tried to convert owners to points, but most were too smart for that ploy.

They kept touring prospects, showed them a chart of how many points it would take for a summer week. If someone wanted to buy that many points, they explained they would actually be deeded in Wisconsin or somewhere, but that did not matter because ''points are points''. The probelm was that when those points owners wanted to take that summer week on the Outer Banks, there was no room at the inn. All those weeks were owned by weeks-based owners. There were many very upset points patsies, and most resorts encountered them as they went around trying to rent a timeshare or buy somewhere else. Eventually, Peppertree-Equivest sold their business to Fairfield (now Wyndham), but Fairfield did not want their points club, so it became a orphan, with no new sales and a declined membership base. At the Beach Club, both HOA's, which were homeowner controlled, kicked out Fairfield management shortly after Fairfield was bought by Cendent. Fairfield still owned the sales office, which was on a seperate lot adjacent to the resort, and they reopened it to sell Fairfield points. With the sour taste a lot of people had for points, the Beach Club refused to allow Fairfield to take prospects on their property. Fairfield had to cut a deal with Seascape, some miles away and off the beach, to take tours to show them a timeshare, paying a sum of money to Seascape's HOA for the privelege. Eventually, Fairfield shut down its sales office and sold it. Ironically, that orphan points club ended up being acquired by Festiva. Oh, and along the way, a court ruled that it was the owners of the underlying points weeks, not Peppertree/Equivest or Festiva, which got to vote those weeks in HOA meetings. In any event, there were never enough of them to threaten homeowner control of the resorts.

When Cliff converts the off-season inventory into Festiva points, he is not losing any control. The Festiva Trust would vote those weeks. Their goals are mutually aligned.

The plan is retain control of the resort, while converting his inventory into Festiva points that can be marketed by Outfield.

It really is genius when you think of it. I own 500 off-season weeks. They are really tough to sell though.

But those weeks represent enough points to convert them into large points packages that would allow the holder to obtain a prime summer week. So I can effectively market it has a prime summer week.

So instead of selling an off-season week (lets say 3000 Festiva pts), I can sell a 6000 pt Festiva package. And I can tell the buyer that you can reserve a prime summer week with your ownership.

The points system is effectively allowing Cliff to convert his off-season inventory into bright shiny prime season inventory. But it all hinges on his ability to convert some prime season owners into points. It would be a mis-representation to sell those points, if their was no summer inventory in the points system. So he has to get some conversions going to support the plan.

 

[Sou13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Friends,

I agree with TUGBrian and Eric. The tone of many of the messages and "fake replies" are over the top, increase clutter, and reduce the usefulness of this list as a way to keep updated on our resort.

For the record, my wife and I own two weeks (Unit 6, weeks 34-35) and have been going to Southcape for 25 years, never trading our units. We have attended several owners meetings including the last one. While none of us are happy about the increase in the MF and the special assessment, we were concerned about the condition of the resort. My wife and I applaud the efforts of the current resort management in tackling the renovations, as well as the sewage and parking lot suit.

- Bhound54​

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Southcape Friends,

I've been watching the Southcape threads on this BBS since my wife and I returned from the Southcape annual meeting (where I told Cliff that he was starting to look like a pincushion). We own two weeks (Unit #6, Weeks 34-35) and have been owners for 25 years. We have never traded out Southcape weeks.

Just a few thoughts:

1. We did entertain a visit from an Outfield representative. Yes, the presentation was misleading but he was cordial. When he failed to make the case for converting our ownership to points, we sent him on his way to his next "victim".

2. The sad truth is that Southcape Owners probably have not paid the amount necessary to maintain and upgrade the resort so a rise in the the maintenance fee and a special assessment was probably inevitable. I'm not happy about it but don't blame current management for the situation. In the meanwhile, I have been happy to have use of the funds that more realistic maintenance fee would have cost.

3. Rosaleen is a magician with respect to managing the resort with limited funds. We have been lucky to have her around.

4. The septic system and the suit over parking lot are real, substantial issues. I applaud Cliff for his handling of these two items.

5. If someone else has been wronged and wants to pursue a class action or contact the AG, more power to you. Folks that drank the Outfield "Kool-Aid" may fall into that category. However, my limited understanding of the law is that you need to have a harm to successfully pursue civil actions. My wife and I don't feel harmed by Outfield or the current resort management so we plan to sit on the sidelines.

6. My number one complaint about the resort is the lack of internet access. We'll see if Cliff and Rosaleen deliver when our two weeks come up.

Best wishes,

Bhound54​

Hello, bhound54, and welcome to the discussion.

I agree with TUGBrian when it comes to personal attacks, and hope that none of my posts have fallen into that category. My intent here is to expose the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club and stop its takeover of Southcape Resort in its tracks if that's at all possible.

I also agree with you that some issues need to be addressed but am somewhat confused about Cliff Hagberg's role as managing partner. While it's true that we need someone who's a resident of Cape Cod, everyone else on the Board of Trustees (75%) has a vested interest in Festiva Resorts and can dictate to Hagberg who has only 25% interest in NEVS.

Were you impressed with the paving job on the patio? While it looks shiny and new and the umbrella tables are a great touch, the job itself had me wondering whether that's what we are to expect in the future. Look at what happened to the pool! The paint job wasn't included in the Special Assessment and they didn't do it right and now it has to be done over but in the meantime the owners and exchanges who stayed at Southcape while the pool was being repainted had to be sent to another resort!

These repairs are supposed to be done during the off-season, such as January when the resort is virtually empty and even then isn't a good time to be painting a pool. One year not too long ago I experienced a major breakdown of my car over the Thanksgiving interval and had to leave it at the Mobil station for repairs. A week or two later I had a friend bring me back to Southcape and he was hoping to be able to use the pool but it was empty. That was in December, between the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. I believe it was 2002, and that might have been when the last repainting was being done.

If you attended the owners' meeting you should have received all the financial info that I had to scan and send to all the Southcape owners on my elist who were unable to be at the meeting. We need to take a serious look at those reports because there are some questionable entries. The problem is that the more we present Southcape Resort as having problems the less attractive it becomes to buyers and we need to sell the NEVS inventory to MF-paying owners!

If you will email me for documents I can send you my PDF of Hagberg's posts from March 27-April 15 so that you don't have to page through this discussion for his posts. Other than that I see no need to include you on my elist if you don't see a need for AG involvement or civil action.

Thanks again for your post!

 

[tombo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Friends,

I agree with TUGBrian and Eric. The tone of many of the messages and "fake replies" are over the top, increase clutter, and reduce the usefulness of this list as a way to keep updated on our resort.

For the record, my wife and I own two weeks (Unit 6, weeks 34-35) and have been going to Southcape for 25 years, never trading our units. We have attended several owners meetings including the last one. While none of us are happy about the increase in the MF and the special assessment, we were concerned about the condition of the resort. My wife and I applaud the efforts of the current resort management in tackling the renovations, as well as the sewage and parking lot suit.

- Bhound54​

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhound54

Hello Southcape Friends,

I've been watching the Southcape threads on this BBS since my wife and I returned from the Southcape annual meeting (where I told Cliff that he was starting to look like a pincushion). We own two weeks (Unit #6, Weeks 34-35) and have been owners for 25 years. We have never traded out Southcape weeks.

Just a few thoughts:

1. We did entertain a visit from an Outfield representative. Yes, the presentation was misleading but he was cordial. When he failed to make the case for converting our ownership to points, we sent him on his way to his next "victim".

2. The sad truth is that Southcape Owners probably have not paid the amount necessary to maintain and upgrade the resort so a rise in the the maintenance fee and a special assessment was probably inevitable. I'm not happy about it but don't blame current management for the situation. In the meanwhile, I have been happy to have use of the funds that more realistic maintenance fee would have cost.

3. Rosaleen is a magician with respect to managing the resort with limited funds. We have been lucky to have her around.

4. The septic system and the suit over parking lot are real, substantial issues. I applaud Cliff for his handling of these two items.

5. If someone else has been wronged and wants to pursue a class action or contact the AG, more power to you. Folks that drank the Outfield "Kool-Aid" may fall into that category. However, my limited understanding of the law is that you need to have a harm to successfully pursue civil actions. My wife and I don't feel harmed by Outfield or the current resort management so we plan to sit on the sidelines.

6. My number one complaint about the resort is the lack of internet access. We'll see if Cliff and Rosaleen deliver when our two weeks come up.

Best wishes,

Bhound54​

Hello, bhound54, and welcome to the discussion.

I agree with TUGBrian when it comes to personal attacks, and hope that none of my posts have fallen into that category. My intent here is to expose the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club and stop its takeover of Southcape Resort in its tracks if that's at all possible.

I also agree with you that some issues need to be addressed but am somewhat confused about Cliff Hagberg's role as managing partner. While it's true that we need someone who's a resident of Cape Cod, everyone else on the Board of Trustees (75%) has a vested interest in Festiva Resorts and can dictate to Hagberg who has only 25% interest in NEVS.

Were you impressed with the paving job on the patio? While it looks shiny and new and the umbrella tables are a great touch, the job itself had me wondering whether that's what we are to expect in the future. Look at what happened to the pool! The paint job wasn't included in the Special Assessment and they didn't do it right and now it has to be done over but in the meantime the owners and exchanges who stayed at Southcape while the pool was being repainted had to be sent to another resort!

These repairs are supposed to be done during the off-season, such as January when the resort is virtually empty and even then isn't a good time to be painting a pool. One year not too long ago I experienced a major breakdown of my car over the Thanksgiving interval and had to leave it at the Mobil station for repairs. A week or two later I had a friend bring me back to Southcape and he was hoping to be able to use the pool but it was empty. That was in December, between the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. I believe it was 2002, and that might have been when the last repainting was being done.

If you attended the owners' meeting you should have received all the financial info that I had to scan and send to all the Southcape owners on my elist who were unable to be at the meeting. We need to take a serious look at those reports because there are some questionable entries. The problem is that the more we present Southcape Resort as having problems the less attractive it becomes to buyers and we need to sell the NEVS inventory to MF-paying owners!

If you will email me for documents I can send you my PDF of Hagberg's posts from March 27-April 15 so that you don't have to page through this discussion for his posts. Other than that I see no need to include you on my elist if you don't see a need for AG involvement or civil action.

Thanks again for your post!

Be careful what you send and to who. Some people still posting here might be related to massman and capeguitarguy. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

[ecwinch]

Look at what happened to the pool! The paint job wasn't included in the Special Assessment and they didn't do it right and now it has to be done over but in the meantime the owners and exchanges who stayed at Southcape while the pool was being repainted had to be sent to another resort!

These repairs are supposed to be done during the off-season, such as January when the resort is virtually empty and even then isn't a good time to be painting a pool. One year not too long ago I experienced a major breakdown of my car over the Thanksgiving interval and had to leave it at the Mobil station for repairs. A week or two later I had a friend bring me back to Southcape and he was hoping to be able to use the pool but it was empty. That was in December, between the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. I believe it was 2002, and that might have been when the last repainting was being done.

Just trying to add a little balance here, but Cliff has apologized for the pool issue. He has admitted a mistake was made, and accepted responsibility for it.

And I am not a building contractor, but I doubt that normal pool paint would properly cure in Jan on Cape Cod. I would think this would have be a job done during a warmer period.

 

[ecwinch]

Be careful what you send and to who. Some people still posting here might be related to massman and capeguitarguy. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Lets not start questioning the veracity of every poster to this thread that supports Cliff's actions or is taking a wait and see approach. I think those people will reveal themselves to be real or not based on their posts.

It does not contribute to a meaningful dialog on the issues....

 

[tombo]

Lets not start questioning the veracity of every poster to this thread that supports Cliff's actions or is taking a wait and see approach. I think those people will reveal themselves to be real or not based on their posts.

It does not contribute to a meaningful dialog on the issues....

Now Eric you know better than to assume. I mentioned no names and questioned no one. I simply don't want SOU giving all of his information to his opponent. It would be very hard to win a football game if one coach accidentally told the other team the plays they were going to use and the strategy they would be implementing before the game even began.

I still feel that there are a couple of more posters that were Cliff who haven't been named yet. So far my suspicions have proven 100% to be correct. If I had not questioned the others we might still be talking to Viv, Massman,weinstein, etc. as though they were real. There is no way that one couldn't have doubts since Cliff did use many different aliases that we know of. It is not unreasonable to believe that he might be using or will in the future use others.

 

[Fig]

When Cliff converts the off-season inventory into Festiva points, he is not losing any control. The Festiva Trust would vote those weeks. Their goals are mutually aligned.

The plan is retain control of the resort, while converting his inventory into Festiva points that can be marketed by Outfield.

It really is genius when you think of it. I own 500 off-season weeks. They are really tough to sell though.

But those weeks represent enough points to convert them into large points packages that would allow the holder to obtain a prime summer week. So I can effectively market it has a prime summer week.

So instead of selling an off-season week (lets say 3000 Festiva pts), I can sell a 6000 pt Festiva package. And I can tell the buyer that you can reserve a prime summer week with your ownership.

The points system is effectively allowing Cliff to convert his off-season inventory into bright shiny prime season inventory. But it all hinges on his ability to convert some prime season owners into points. It would be a mis-representation to sell those points, if their was no summer inventory in the points system. So he has to get some conversions going to support the plan.

I was wondering why Outfield Marketing or whoever is banking them would go to the expense of telemarketing and flying people all over the country for a deed. This makes a lot of sense....carve out the prime season owners and make a full-fledged assault on them so you can get the game going. The rest you can catch at a much lower cost per contact when they visit the resort, which seems to be what is going on now.

 

[tombo]

Just trying to add a little balance here, but Cliff has apologized for the pool issue. He has admitted a mistake was made, and accepted responsibility for it.

And I am not a building contractor, but I doubt that normal pool paint would properly cure in Jan on Cape Cod. I would think this would have be a job done during a warmer period.

After all of the lies Cliff told and the admonishments he gave me for being mean to kind new posters who were really HIM, I don't trust anything Cliff says. He threatened to sue you and expected an apology from you. Where is Cliff's apology?

He admits he screwed up the pool, big deal. He denies that he is Massman,Viv, weinstein, etc. He denies that he is doing business with outfield. He denies that he is by law and per by laws supposed to give owners access to the owners list.
He denied that outfield's office was at the Texas address FIG gave. He has been caught in so many lies here that I wouldn't believe anything he says. He hasn't accepted responsibility for anything major, just the paint job on the pool. This thread runs a lot better without Cliff and the fake Cliffs here because honest discussions can be made about the real situation without lies being interjected and discussions subterfuged IMO. I don't miss discussing the state of Festiva/Outfield timeshare practices with Cliff here anymore than I would miss discussing investing my money with Bernie Madoff. In either situation I know that I will be asking honest questions and as I ask them I will be confident that I will receive lies and double talk for answers.

If you enjoyed verbally sparring with Cliff, OK. If you really want him to come back here to start some real honest discussions, you have got to be kidding yourself.