[2008] Southcape Resort

[NEVMSLLC]

You're right tombo. I know a couple of developers that hate tug and the internet as well.

 

[tombo]

You're right tombo. I know a couple of developers that hate tug and the internet as well.

It is so nice that we have made up and are talking again. You missed me didn't you? Go ahead, you can admit it.

I am curious, do you see one of those developers that hate TUG and the internet when you look in the mirror while you are shaving? I was just wondering which developers you were referring to. I sure hope that question didn't break us up again right after we made up. Relationships are so hard to maintain.

 

[ecwinch]

Gee Eric

I thought you had left as well. I haven't responded because I haven't been asked any questions. Frankly, the misunderstandings are so numerous, it's hard to even know where to begin. If a Southcape owner does have a question, I'm happy to answer it as long as it's not in the legal area.

Cliff

Glad to see your back. I guess we have a yin-yang relationship, since you only post when I do.

Sorry - I thought Russ45, bobcat, and jjette where owners.

And for old time sakes, you could always answer my question on who are the respective law firms that reviewed the transfer of control, and who did they represent. I do not think that is a legal question.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Hi tombo

I could never break up with you!! I'm just trying to figure out why I talk to you when you're not even an owner here????

I don't hate tug. I've known Bill for years and was part of tug off and on for the last 15 years or so. I think it's a great forum and that's why I'm here. I do, however, know developers that aren't overly fond of the forums here, I'm just not one of them.

And don't worry, I'll still respect you in the morning . . .

 

[ecwinch]

Hi tombo
And don't worry, I'll still respect you in the morning . . .

It is the implications of what you did to him the evening before that I would be worried about.....:whoopie:

I thought you only did that to owners.... (sorry could not resist extending your analogy)

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Funny Eric how I seem to have a relationship with you and Tombo and neither of you even own at Southcape. Why don't you buy a week and I'll answer all of your questions?

I understand what you think is happening to owners here but all you've heard from is less than a handful out of thousands. Jumping to conclusions perhaps? I'm disappointed in you . . .

 

[ecwinch]

Cliff

I was only extending your analogy. You made the analogy, not I.

For the record, to date I do not think you have taken any inappropriate action at Southcape - with one caveat - your relationship with Outfield. You have simply replaced a developer that was doing nothing to make the resort better, and assumed his rights.

I think you are taking positive steps at the resort, and the owners will benefit from the improvements you have implemented. They will bear a disapportionate amount of the expense, but will clearly benefit.

I think I have outlined why I think the situation is inequitable, given the rights you possess. If you would relinquish or restrict some of those rights, I would consider owning at this resort. In the absence of doing so, even if we were to trust you, the sword hanging over the owners head still exists.

And since those rights could easily transfer to someone else who is less trustworthy, the peril still exists.

And there is the unanswered question of how will you recoup your investment. I know you are too smart to have made that investment without a plan.

My caveat above is your relationship with Outfield. I think there have been sufficient posts in this thread to see that all is not right there.

 

[ecwinch]

I do, however, know developers that aren't overly fond of the forums here, I'm just not one of them.

Those developers, like the publishers of encyclopedia's, will soon be marginalize if they have fail to adapt to the age we live in. The pool of uninformed consumers is decreasing exponentially, and unless they adjust their model, they will be irrevelant in the near future.

On that note, I give you credit. More developers should embrace this model and have representation on TUG. If they cannot make their case here, then they are doomed to failure.

 

[tombo]

And don't worry, I'll still respect you in the morning . . .

Oh crap! Did I get drunk and buy something?

 

[bobcat]

Oh crap! Did I get drunk and buy something?

I sent an email to Southcape weeks ago. I received an answer that they would email me back. It is a good thing I did not wait by my computer for a reply. Still no email. I requested to have them buy my week no answer. I am a happy owner... READ MY LIPS NO. Maybe it is time for the owners to do a Boston Tea Party. Request to have them purchase our weeks.

 

[Sou13]

Is this what you call giving 21 days' notice?

April. 1, 2009

Dear Friends:

Another seemingly endless winter is slowly giving way to spring here on Cape Cod. The ocean breezes grow noticeably warmer each week. Spring, the season of renewal and anticipation, is always special to us here at the resort, but this year itisa particularly exciting time. Indeed, SouthCape is quite the hive of activity at the moment. Leaking roofs and decayed wood are being replaced, and there is already fresh new siding and paint on many of the buildings. Having struggled for the past four years, with inadequate resources, to catch up on long-overdue maintenance, I find it very heartening to see this work finally getting done. We are deeply grateful for your understanding, and your quick response to the special assessment, as it has made all of this possible. It is truly a fresh start for SouthCape.

Many of you have called to express your negative feelings about the timing of the assessment, given the current state of our economy. We completely understand these feelings. However, it is the unfortunate state of our economy that has made it possible to have this work done at a relatively reasonable cost. It has also meant that we can get it done within a shorter time frame, and thereby minimize any disruption to your use of the resort. We are currently focusing on exterior work, as this will prevent any further damage being caused by inadequate protection from the elements. Interior renovations will begin in the fall. New exercise equipment has already been installed in the workout room, and Evarist and Jim are currently busy painting the pool in preparation for the approaching busy season.

Change rarely occurs without an element of trepidation. Understandably, many of you have expressed a certain discomfort with regards to the ending of a 20-year relationship with Mr. Barth & Mr. Woods, and their replacement with new trustees. However, the transition has been a smooth one, and the new trustees are eager to meet all of you. The upcoming annual meeting, which will be held"thisyear on May 16, at 12:00 noon, here at the resort, will provide an opportunity for you to meet the new trustees and to discuss the future of the resort with them. We hope to see you there.

Regards,
Rosaleen Cassidy
Resort Manager

 

[e.bram]

Anyone wanting to be a happy Southcape owner, there is a unit for sale on Ebay with a $1.00 opening bid(no bids yet)

 

[Sou13]

Why did he say he was here?

I sent an email to Southcape weeks ago. I received an answer that they would email me back. It is a good thing I did not wait by my computer for a reply. Still no email. I requested to have them buy my week no answer. I am a happy owner... READ MY LIPS NO. Maybe it is time for the owners to do a Boston Tea Party. Request to have them purchase our weeks.

Here's how Cliff Hagberg entered this discussion:

My name is Cliff Hagberg and I am a trustee at Southcape Resort. I
am concerned about a number of untruths and misrepresentations that
have appeared on this board and i am perfectly willing to address
issues of concern for any owner at Southcape Resort. Please
understand that I cannot discuss legal issues nor will I respond to
any personal attacks. Having set those ground rules, I would
very much appreciate an opportunity to try and answer those questions
that any owner at Southcape might have. I look forward to a fruitful
dialog #191
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=693201#post693201 p.8

Here's how he left it:

I'm only here because there is one owner who seems to be keeping the discussion alive by rumor and innuendo
Last edited by NEVMSLLC : April 2, 2009 at 11:05 AM
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=696110#post696110

I guess we're supposed to repost all our unanswered questions?

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Wrong again, Sou13. I haven't left at all. I'm still here.

 

[Sou13]

Did you miss this one?

Cliff, I am only familiar with the Master Deed as the controlling document of the Resort. What are the other documents you are referring to and how may I obtain them?

Did you miss this one, NEVMSLLC? Or did I miss your answer?

 

[e.bram]

Southcape owners need to hire a lawyer(or pro se) and start a legal action. You will get anything you want(sworn to) from the legal discovery process. (to which you are entitled too)

 

[bobcat]

Glad to see your back. I guess we have a yin-yang relationship, since you only post when I do.

Sorry - I thought Russ45, bobcat, and jjette where owners.

And for old time sakes, you could always answer my question on who are the respective law firms that reviewed the transfer of control, and who did they represent. I do not think that is a legal question.

BOBCAT is an OWNER. However, an UNHAPPY ONE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bobcat]

Anyone wanting to be a happy Southcape owner, there is a unit for sale on Ebay with a $1.00 opening bid(no bids yet)

E BRAM, That hurts. Maybe the price was to high. Cliff, you can purchase another week and be happy. BETTER YET, Purchase all the owners weeks at a fair price and you will be a happy Southcape Sole Owner.

 

[ecwinch]

E BRAM, That hurts. Maybe the price was to high. Cliff, you can purchase another week and be happy. BETTER YET, Purchase all the owners weeks at a fair price and you will be a happy Southcape Sole Owner.

That would not work very for Cliff, as he would have to pay m/f and special assessments on any weeks acquired from the resale market.

 

[tombo]

That would not work very for Cliff, as he would have to pay m/f and special assessments on any weeks acquired from the resale market.

Don't be so sure. Cliff controls the vote, the mgt company, and I would presume he controls the other 2 trustees. He has 500 weeks he currently owns that he doesn't pay MF's or assessments on. With a good lawyer he might be able to acquire additional weeks and pay nothing on those too.

 

[Russ45]

Did you miss this one, NEVMSLLC? Or did I miss your answer?

I don't believe it's been answered, although if it is I would probably expect the circular argument "We can't comment on the legal documents because of the legal issues currently ongoing with the legality of the documents"

 

[Sou13]

Southcape on eBay

Anyone wanting to be a happy Southcape owner, there is a unit for sale on Ebay with a $1.00 opening bid(no bids yet)

Here's what happens if you win the bid:

I fully agree with you on your point about high transaction costs too as I have fallen victim to this myself. An auction is close to ending with a current high bid of $199 and I am thinking that $205 would be a steal for that resort/week. I win the bid at $205 and I am so happy that I stold this week. The sellers contact me and want a check for $1404 ($205 for the auction, $499 for the closing costs, and $700 for the current years MF's). Some resorts in Mexico and other places have a resort transfer fee that can total in the $1000's. I looked at an auction where the winning bid was $1, but the buyer owed over $4000 when you added in the closing costs, MF's, and resort transfer fees.


If you buy a floating week, often by the time the week is deeded to you there is no way you will get a prime week during the purchase year because all of the current owners will have already reserved them. Depending on the resort and their rules, you might not only be too late to reserve a good week for the current year, you might be too late to reserve a good week for the next year (many resorts allow owners to reserve 12 months or further in advance). So you could be paying one or even 2 years worth of MF's for years that you won't even have the opportunity to reserve a good week that you would actually use yourself.

If you go to sell that week you purchased for $205 and ended up spending $1404 for, you would lose money selling it for $505. If you sell it for $505 and make the buyer pay the closing costs, then you have sold the week for $300 more than you bought it for. If it is late in the year and they don't want the week or you have already banked it, you will eat the $700 MF's. You paid $1404, sold it for $505, you lost $900 (actually you paid $900 to stay there for a week). If they reimburse you for the MF's, they paid you $505 plus $700 (giving the buyer the use of the current week) for a total of $1205. You still lost $199 even though you technically sold it for $300 more than you paid for it, and you never even got to stay at the resort.

Transaction costs are a big expense that is often overlooked but shouldn't be. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=701005

Welcome back, Eric and tombo! Please don't let "Developer" Hagberg try scaring you off again!

 

[Carolinian]

Many resorts have no legal right to impose a ''resort transfer fee''. If I wanted to buy at a resort that attempted to charge one, I would demand they show me that they had a legal right to impose it. For a deeded resort, provisions in rules or bylaws or such are not sufficient. They would have to be in the declaration of covenants.

 

[Carolinian]

Don't be so sure. Cliff controls the vote, the mgt company, and I would presume he controls the other 2 trustees. He has 500 weeks he currently owns that he doesn't pay MF's or assessments on. With a good lawyer he might be able to acquire additional weeks and pay nothing on those too.

In North Carolina's it was developer First Flight's holding hundreds of weeks and not paying m/f's that was the legal basis of the members successful efforts to kick them out. First Flight ended up having to deed all of those weeks over to the HOA's and in the case of one resort also pay a six figure cash payment to the HOA.

 

[Sou13]

If we only had one!

In North Carolina's it was developer First Flight's holding hundreds of weeks and not paying m/f's that was the legal basis of the members successful efforts to kick them out. First Flight ended up having to deed all of those weeks over to the HOA's and in the case of one resort also pay a six figure cash payment to the HOA.

If we had an HOA we might be able to do something about this situation.

BTW I didn't realize that when it looks as though you're awake in the night posting to TUG, it's morning in your part of the world!