[2008] Southcape Resort

[Sou13]

Keeping us awake at night?

It looks as though I may not be the only one having trouble sleeping nights because of this new wrinkle in timeshare ownership at Southcape after nearly a quarter century of blissful ignorance.

Eric, you have contributed too much to this discussion to go away for a year! I hope you have a change of heart!

I've overextended my online time at the library today and may be booted off at any moment so I can't post anything substantive until I have more time, possibly tomorrow. For now I'm trying to figure out how to save posts so that I'll have the original when someone succeeds in getting a moderator to edit my quotes. If I could go back to February 5th and edit all my own posts I might look a lot more savvy. Now if only I knew which posts were "untruths" I could correct them!

 

[Russ45]

Hi Russ

I have your letter and haven't answered it yet as I've been out of work for the past week or so. I will answer when I get back to work. Even then, I can't comment on legal issues or pending litigation.

Actually, the election of a board is a matter of legal interpretation and i'll try to give you an idea of the scope of the problem. There are several conflicting condo docs at Southcape, all of which were written prior to the adoption of MGL 183B. Are they grandfathered? If so, which one prevails? Are they not grandfathered and do they have to be amended? These questions should have been answered twenty years ago but never were. We're addressing these issues and, until they're resolved, I just can't give you definitive answers.

Cliff, I am only familiar with the Master Deed as the controlling document of the Resort. What are the other documents you are referring to and how may I obtain them?

 

[Sou13]

It looks as though he chose not to answer

Cliff, I am only familiar with the Master Deed as the controlling document of the Resort. What are the other documents you are referring to and how may I obtain them?

Russ, I didn't want to post today until you had an answer to this one, but I always check who's online and he was just a few minutes ago but it looks as though he chose not to answer.

Giving us a link to an outdated Master Deed may make Cliff Hagberg look good but he'd look even better if he gave us access to the updates!

 

[Sou13]

Outfield Marketing

Outfield Marketing Ltd.

Thomas C Franks RRP
President


135 E Hickory Street

Denton, TX 76201-4215

Ph: (443) 994-4581
Fx: (410) 295-5486

 

[e.bram]

I'm on thr Cape(surfside)this week. I drove by Southcape and is almost completely empty. Who is paying any MFs? Looks like the TS will eventully go belly up and sold off as full time condos.

 

[Russ45]

Russ, I didn't want to post today until you had an answer to this one, but I always check who's online and he was just a few minutes ago but it looks as though he chose not to answer.

Giving us a link to an outdated Master Deed may make Cliff Hagberg look good but he'd look even better if he gave us access to the updates!

I don't know if it's outdated since the Association is still in effect as far as I know and it takes a vote to change the master deed or sell it so the Association doesn't exist (my interpretation anyway). Some of the master deed's requirements are far outdated and should be changed in my view, such as the vote for any capital improvements over $10,000. You can't even refurnish a unit for under $10,000.

 

[Sou13]

Cancelled contracts?

How to Cancel My Timeshare Contract
Cancel timeshare outside your rescission period. We'll do it for you.
www.theownersadvocate.com

 

[Sou13]

The Owners' Advocate

We are an advocacy group assisting consumers who have become disillusioned by the vacation ownership and timeshare industry. Every day we see the financial hardship and emotional distress caused by contracts that were misrepresented.

An overwhelming number of these complaints allege that timeshare sales representatives falsely promised that owning a timeshare serves as an investment for financial gain. Timeshare owners are often led to believe that they can profit through selling or renting their timeshares. After purchasing a timeshare or vacation ownership product, consumers encounter unexpected and hidden fees, difficult and unobtainable reservations, and disappointing and often disastrous accommodations.

Mission Statement:The Owners’ Advocate will provide assistance and resources to consumers battling fraud and misrepresentation within the timeshare and vacation ownership industry.

Where Can You Turn?

The Owners’ Advocate works to prevent deceptive practices within the timeshare and vacation ownership industry and to rectify situations in which consumers allege these practices have occurred.

While there is very little government regulation of the timeshare industry, there is almost no regulation at all of the so-called “secondary” market for timeshare products. We strongly advise all consumers to use caution when approaching this market. The Owners’ Advocate has received many complaints about companies soliciting consumers with promises of “quick and easy relief” from obligations associated with timeshare or vacation ownership. Often at a substantial financial loss, consumers find that they been intentionally misled yet again.

Misrepresentation and fraud are serious violations of law that can be redressed with the help of an attorney. We do not discourage you from seeking legal counsel—however we are aware that for many consumers an attorney simply is not an option. The American Bar Association has estimated that at least thirty-eight million Americans go without legal assistance every year because of financial barriers to legal service. And while The Owners’ Advocate is not a law firm, we are still able to assist consumers effectively with legitimate grievances against the timeshare or vacation ownership industry.

If you purchased or upgraded a timeshare and believe you have been a victim of misrepresentation and fraud, there is hope. We can help!


Affiliates

The Owners' Advocate is affiliated with a wide number of federal agencies serving the best interests of our citizens such as the Federal Trade Commission, the Real Estate Commissions, Bar Associations and Attorney Generals for all fifty states, as well as private agencies such as the Better Business Bureau and Timeshare Accountability Group. They endorse our efforts to protect consumers from all walks of life who have been preyed upon by the timeshare and vacation ownership industry.

We know that their show of support for The Owners' Advocate will instill in you the confidence you need to let us help you. Call our help desk and speak directly to one of our caring associates. They will listen to your story and determine if we may be able to have your timeshare contract terminated and achieve the outcome you deserve.

http://www.theownersadvocate.com/the_owners_advocate_profile_1.php

 

[Sou13]

Vacations for Life: Too Good to Be True?

The Federal Trade Commission says the travel, vacations and timeshare industry was in its top 10 complaint categories in 2007.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=4627886&page=2

File a Complaint

 

[jjette]

Cliff/Outfield

Cliff, I am surprised to hear you say that you have not had any complaints of outfield marketing from any Southcape owners. I guess I will be the first!

Imagine Cliff being the owner of a resort at Southcape and he first purchased in 1982 for a small price. Cliff's entire family has used the resorts for countless trips to Disney, Juno Beach, Hawaii many times, Island resorts, etc etc. Cliff and his family have stayed at 4/5 star resorts around the country with one trip valued at the cost of what he originally paid for the time sharing unit at southcape.

Cliff is happy about his purchase, no question

In the mail arrives a $400 special assessment, understandable, the resort is 30 years old, needs a septic system, roofs, siding, wireless internet, gym, so it is paid.

Here comes Outfield Marketing and parachutes in a smoothe talking Texan to tell Cliff about a wonderful idea he has. So Cliff, you have had this unit since 1982, you have used it quite often, I can show you a way not to pay this assessement in the future. Sell me your unit back to new owners because it is worthless, but I will need a check for $3000 as well and you can have these points here to use for your vacations going forward!!!! are you serious, what a deal for Cliff, where do I sign.

Come on Cliff I am being sarcastic yes. Outfield Marketing was appointed by NEVS not to give me options but to deliver me scare tactics in every aspect to gain my unit back. WHY Cliff? Its an off week in December, yes I am on off-week owner and by gollie I do pay my taxes and have never been delinquent. You want my unit and my 3k to make 3k plus the money from selling my unit or a commission from Festiva, why come after my unit, why not sell the unsold units you have already??

Outfield Marketing is the most unprofessional sales organization I have ever seen. Its not the salesperson at all. This guy was and is probably a decent human being. What is wrong is the direction the salesperson is getting and that is from NEVS.

Higher maintenance fees
No value/Ebay for a buck of the unit
More Assessments
Trouble trading weeks
No information left behind

Being Sarcastic again.

Cliff changes his mind is says " let me think about selling you my unit, giving up ownership and a check for $3000.00 for points " do you have a business card? No well I dont, I dont have any material to leave you, but you can go on a website!!!!!!!!

Take my $400 Cliff for the special assessment, fix the place up like you plan, sell the unsold units for your 8K, my family will keep the unit for our vacations and we will all be happy....

 

[Sou13]

Done deed

We have received your complaint. Thank you for contacting the FTC. Your complaint has been entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide. Your reference number is: ()

If you want to update your information or have any questions, please call our Consumer Response Center, 1-877-FTC-HELP. Keep your reference number handy.

 

[bobcat]

We have received your complaint. Thank you for contacting the FTC. Your complaint has been entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide. Your reference number is: ()

If you want to update your information or have any questions, please call our Consumer Response Center, 1-877-FTC-HELP. Keep your reference number handy.

If Cliff loves Southcape so much, why not purchase back at a fair price from the owners their units. I have been an owner from 1982. I have seen several changes I did not sign up for. After you purchase, somebody or new owners make changes on the week you own. Buy everybody out. It is not the same timeshare that I feel in love with. Cliff, buy me OUT... Bobcat.

 

[Sou13]

Stumbled across a goldmine of complaints

I have just stumbled across a website that's a goldmine of complaints about Festiva. It's found at http://festiva-resorts.pissedconsumer.com/

 

[tombo]

I have just stumbled across a website that's a goldmine of complaints about Festiva. It's found at http://festiva-resorts.pissedconsumer.com/

Finding web sites with complaints about Festiva and Outfield marketing is easy. If you want a challenge look for a web site where owners are singing Festiva's or Outfield's praises.

 

[jjette]

Festiva

It appears all connected. NEVS buys Southcape. NEVS uses the special assessment to get to Festiva standards. Yes this improves our resort look, but in all retrospect it simply allows Southcape to now be in the Festiva club as one of the 24 resorts nationally.

For outfield marketing to successfully sell points to buyers they need to clear titles and make available space where their Festiva members can vacation on the cape.

I cant imagine the full court press Outfield is making on owners in weeks during June through September; let alone off weeks that are typically used for trade.

So Outfield uses these tactics to have us released from deed, they collect the $3000, then go out to market (re-sell) to a new point owner for whatever they can get. I would imagine big money if its a summer week.

Yes, I know by joining Festiva you still have RCI or II, but think of what they could sell a cape cod unit in the summer month for. This brings me to my original post is that you owners who have a summer week on the cape are sitting on what NEVS wants and that is the ability to re-sell your unit for a very good price; especially after it is refurbished.

Regardless of whether this resort has not been turned over to a owners assocation, you have to wonder if they can legally slap assessments without showing due cause and raise maintenance fees beyond the means to run the resort.

I would think like anything else you have owners and renters ( points ) as a market for time sharing, but at southcape it appears they want the owners out and a point system in place.

I am not sure whether my post is factual or not its just what seems to be on the surface here. One thing that really haunts me today is the outfield marketing lead sheet left behind ( I lied in my previous post as this is what they left behind ) it was a lead generation sheet, yes I was lead when I called to inquire about the SA. One of the questions on the sheet was whether I was retired or not!! I am not but but it bothers me to this day that a question like that is on a lead generation sheet.

 

[Sou13]

More search results

Yesterday I found a complaint about Festiva or Outfield Marketing that must have been on another site than the one I gave. Looking for it today I found this:

greg hughes

sales mgr, outfield marketing

I'll keep on looking for that complaint but as tombo has posted it's harder to find rave reviews than it is to find complaints.

 

[Fig]

Sorry...computer froze and this went thru twice.

 

[Fig]

Outfield Marketing was appointed by NEVS not to give me options but to deliver me scare tactics in every aspect to gain my unit back. WHY Cliff? Its an off week in December, yes I am on off-week owner and by gollie I do pay my taxes and have never been delinquent...Outfield Marketing is the most unprofessional sales organization I have ever seen.

This is what I can't quite fathom. Perhaps some of you on the board have some insight. Why send the Outfield Marketing folks with their scare tactics at your most secure form of cash flow in a recession?

As the story of Festiva and Outfield gets around, less and less people will be interested in points with Festiva in general. With people walking away from mortgages on their primary homes who is going to buy a "points only" deal on a timeshare? So, you give up a secure deeded income stream from a loyal person like jjette in the hopes you can replace it with a points deal in the middle of a recession? Once these deeded folks convert to points and have a bad experience or wake up to what they have lost(and there are plenty of accounts out there to research) look for them to walk away.

Or, look for them to wake up before the fact and get ticked off at the changes and resell their deed on Ebay for $1. Then, look for the new owner to balk at the rising MFs and hounding to convert to points and walk.

I just don't see this whole house of cards working in this economy. A little while back when cash was cheap and cash flow was good...maybe, now, not seein' it. In my mind, Outfield is just eating away at the most secure stream of cashflow of a resort at the most inopportune time. But, maybe, I'm not seeing something.

Hope this all works out for you jj and all others posting to this board and perhaps more reading, who have been longtime and loyal (paying) members of Southcape.

 

[jjette]

Outfield

Fig, to answer your question. Even though I relinquish my deed and join Festiva, I still pay a similar maintenance fee. That is what Outfield told us.

Perhaps I dont get hit with anymore SA of $400, but you could if one of the 24 resorts is hit with a catastrophe.

Its freeing up ownership to create more point owners that will pay MF's.

Its simply all about maintenance fees and how to get more into the system to generate income at the expense of long-time owners...OMG is a maintenance fee generating machine, nothing more,nothing less.

 

[Fig]

Fig, to answer your question. Even though I relinquish my deed and join Festiva, I still pay a similar maintenance fee. That is what Outfield told us.

That sounds like what they are trying to achieve in theory, jjette, But, who is more likely to default, a points owner with no fixed week or a deeded owner who knows he or she is guaranteed a given week at a given resort? In theory you can replace deeds by selling more points...but I just don't see it happening in this economy. People aren't buying cars or houses...who the heck is going to shell out thousands for points? And once the former deeded owners see the points deal for what it is, I think a good percentage of them will want to bail. Holding on to nearly worthless points isn't nearly as compelling as a deed, IMHO.

This economy is sure to test this points idea, big time.

 

[Sou13]

Cause for concern

Regardless of whether this resort has not been turned over to a owners assocation, you have to wonder if they can legally slap assessments without showing due cause and raise maintenance fees beyond the means to run the resort..

Did you get to look over those email attachments before letting the Outfield Marketer come to your house? Were they helpful?

We need an owners' association and we need it now!

 

[Sou13]

Reviewing that telephone conversation with Cliff Hagberg

As I try to accurately report that February 24th telephone conversation with Cliff Hagberg, I recall him telling me that the weeks that NEVS owns are not for sale. I also recall him telling me that he does not intend to stay on at Southcape forever and that he intends to turn the resort over to (?) when the resort has been upgraded (?)

The reason I have never been able to accurately report that telephone conversation could be that my emotional reactions have clouded my memory. I was trying to keep the conversation going and had to keep it as pleasant as possible in order to do that.

But I didn't feel reassured and the more I find out about NEVS, FAC and Outfield Marketing the more alarmed I become. I find it hard to believe that Cliff Hagberg didn't know what he was doing when he formed NEVS and teamed up with Festiva and Outfield Marketing.

As "developer" manager of Southcape, NEVS controls 500 votes. Festiva controls the votes of weeks turned over to the "trust" but who controls the remaining votes? The 2009 budget is based on MFs paid by either 1800+ or 1600+ interval weeks owned, whether they are paid by deeded owners or the Festiva trust. The resort has 51x55=2805 weeks but only 2100+ or 2300+ weeks eligible to vote, depending on whether the $50 reserve was counted in the collectible MFs. Who gets those remaining votes? Do they belong to a non-existent owners' association, NEVS, or the Festiva trust?

Cliff Hagberg has danced around answering these questions. I know there are Southcape owners who are reading these posts but not replying, and I hope there are non-TUG guests who are also looking for info aabout Festiva, Outfield Marketing, and NEVS.

Southcape owners, if you share my concern and alarm about these developments I implore you to express them in writing to the Board of Trustees. You might want to address a copy to the Massachusetts Attorney General.

Former Southcape owners who have turned your deeds over to FAC, if you now feel that you've been scammed, you might want to turn to the Owners' Advocate for advice and assistance.

I've filed a complaint about Outfield Marketing's scare tactics with the FTC. Join the chorus! File a Complaint!

 

[ecwinch]

Has Cliff taken his mouse and gone home?

I had thought by my dropping out of the thread, that he would stick around to answer questions from owners and clear up misunderstandings. But I see he has not answered any of the questions from owners since I left. But I see him on the board from time to time, so he is checking the board.

Sorry if I chased him off. I guess clearing up the misunderstandings was tougher then he thought it would be.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Gee Eric

I thought you had left as well. I haven't responded because I haven't been asked any questions. Frankly, the misunderstandings are so numerous, it's hard to even know where to begin. If a Southcape owner does have a question, I'm happy to answer it as long as it's not in the legal area.

Cliff

 

[tombo]

Has Cliff taken his mouse and gone home?

I had thought by my dropping out of the thread, that he would stick around to answer questions from owners and clear up misunderstandings. But I see he has not answered any of the questions from owners since I left. But I see him on the board from time to time, so he is checking the board.

Sorry if I chased him off. I guess clearing up the misunderstandings was tougher then he thought it would be.

It is much easier to spin and misinform people who have no facts to refute the sales pitch. In the Owner's updates it is a salesman with a tried and proven script of half truths using scare tactics and high pressure on owners who have purchased one timeshare in their life a decade or more ago. They don't know what changes have occurred in the industry or at their resort. They assume that he is telling them the truth that he represents a good company, that everyone is swapping to points, that if they don't pay to swap that they won't be able to use what they own at all anymore, and that they will pay less each year in fees if they swap. They operate like con men IMO gaining trust to fleece people out of money.

On TUG we own multiple weeks at multiple resorts. We research prices, trends, and developers before we purchase. We have heard about every timeshare sale line in the book. It is hard to trick people who are informed thanks to TUG and the internet.

10 years ago we couldn't have gotten together to swap information and do research like we can today. Don't you know that people (like timeshare developers) who make a living by preying on the uninformed hate the internet.
I bet we know a developer that hates the net and TUG a lot.