Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[dougp26364]

Here's how the new Point System will probably work:

• You must commit your unit for probably 3 years and if you sell your unit resale your new owner is screwed until the time is up

• 
  I don't see this happening. I know of no system that has this requirement and this would likely be unique to Marriott if it did happen.
  

  [*]Each season at each Marriott will be assigned a deposit amount which will be the same for each owner at that resort

  Not a big leap on this one. Basically this is a constant throughout point systems which reflects the value of certain seasons within the system. It's why bronze weeks are sold for less than Platinum weeks.

  [*]Marriott will reserve the best weeks in each season for Points owners and leave dog weeks for non-Point owners

  Again an unreasonable assumption. While the management company does have more control over the points inventory, you are assuming that the management company will not co-mingle inventory. I see Marriott keeping the owner inventory the same and allowing owners to book weeks on a first come, first served basis.

  [*]Renting is forbidden by owners; Marriott can use their Points to rent their reservations (Hello RCI)

  Again absolutely no reason to assume this. I know of no other points based system that forbids rentals unless it's for commercial purposes. Marriott already forbids rentals in it's current system for commercial purposes. I see no changes being made to this.

  [*]Marriott will have full access to anything they want for deposited developer weeks Points - they will get there 1/1000 of a second before any owner can

  Probably a reasonable assumption but, just because they can, assuming they'll take all the best weeks for their own purposes is unreasonable. No other points based system has this complaint from owners. In fact, I have just the opposite opinion in the two points based systems I participate in. I can get premium weeks easily at my home resorts and stand a much better chance of getting them at the remainder of the resorts in the system. Hawaiin exchanges have been relatively easy to see and get. Holiday weeks that aren't event weeks have been easy to get. High season weeks have been easy to reserve. Marriott's current system has many owners complaining that they can't get a summer week at their own resort. I believe a points based reservation system will resolve this issue, not create it.

  [*]Unused Points can carry forward 1 year with a fee of at least $179 or are lost

  You're pulling a figure out of the air and it's a rather high figure. My feeling is this is a scare tactic on your part. Can you name any points based system that charges that much?

  [*]Borrowing from next year is allowed if you pay the est MF for next year and $179 fee

  Again, name a system that charges that much. If you don't have documentation of a fee, don't quote a fee. Remember, after you're list little deletion fest, the rules have changed here. Tuggers will be able to call you on your false predictions this time around.

  [*]First come/first served with 24/7 access and the day starts at Midnight EST

  It does now. No change that I can see
• Delinquent MFs force suspension of account and reservations; reactivation fee charged after MF paid [/quote]
  I don't believe there is a grace period now either. In fact, some systems won't allow you to deposit/exchange your week unless future MF's have been paid.

  [*]Exchange fee $179

  Another scary number that isn't base on fact. You're way off base. I don't know of any points based system where the internal exchange fee is higher than Interval's. Can you name one? I bet you can't and there's a reason for that. Internal exchange systems are set up to ENCOURAGE internal exchanges. Charging more than the outside exchange companies has the opposite effect. Again, I'm certain your numbers are not only a guess but a very unreasonable guess at that.

  [*]Once a reservation is made its yours - you can't rent it but can gift it to someone - don't count on redepositing your Points back

  No basis in fact. Other systems still allow for rentals. You're just whipping up scare tactics again with no basis in fact. You're showing a lack of knowledge of other points based reservations systems.

  [*]Deposit first - no peeking to see if there is anything left but Bronze weeks
  [*]Resales force instant cancellation of all reservations for the unit sold with all Points lost and Marriott gets them (just for the sold unit)

  One last prediction that I predict won't be true at all.

These are guesses on my part but they should be close for an antagonistic timeshare company. There will be fees coming out of the woodwork.

Folks, the devil will be in the detail and it ain't going to be in anyone's favor but Marriott...

If you're going to guess, I'd suggest you take some time to study how other points based systems are being run in the U.S. market. I'm guessing the majority of your guesses are way off base. A system like that woudln't be competitive in the U.S. market. In fact, it would be laughed at.

Stop playing chicken little. The sky is NOT falling.

 

[m61376]

How could you see problems when we haven't seen the program yet?

I'm sure all those high priced Marriott experts whose education and experience revolves around this type of development have thought of all the things we could possibly think of.

Heidi- I am not trying to be a doom and gloom prognosticator. Since Marriott has already rolled out a polnts system elsewhere that I personally feel would be bad for most owners and also looking at what Fletch posted as at least being highly considered (as in no home resort advantage, etc.), I think it is realistic to say that I think that there likely will be problems. I just think it is going to be very hard to revamp a functioning system after the fact, because changes likely will create winners and losers.

I can't say definitively of course- and I never said that there would be problems- I said that there would likely be problems. One very big issue which others have alluded to is that they bought with the expectation of week for week exchanges. Many may like points for days, but I'm guessing that those without enough points for a week's stay- perhaps 3 days when they previously had managed to trade Orlando for Hawaii (and don't forget- since Hawaii is Platinum all year the point requirement for a Sept. week will probably be the same as for a July week) and get a week's vacation will not be too thrilled with the program. Again, that's my guess.

 

[PerryM]

The dream goes on

I don't see this happening. I know of no system that has this requirement and this would likely be unique to Marriott if it did happen.

Not a big leap on this one. Basically this is a constant throughout point systems which reflects the value of certain seasons within the system. It's why bronze weeks are sold for less than Platinum weeks.
Again an unreasonable assumption. While the management company does have more control over the points inventory, you are assuming that the management company will not co-mingle inventory. I see Marriott keeping the owner inventory the same and allowing owners to book weeks on a first come, first served basis.
Again absolutely no reason to assume this. I know of no other points based system that forbids rentals unless it's for commercial purposes. Marriott already forbids rentals in it's current system for commercial purposes. I see no changes being made to this.
Probably a reasonable assumption but, just because they can, assuming they'll take all the best weeks for their own purposes is unreasonable. No other points based system has this complaint from owners. In fact, I have just the opposite opinion in the two points based systems I participate in. I can get premium weeks easily at my home resorts and stand a much better chance of getting them at the remainder of the resorts in the system. Hawaiin exchanges have been relatively easy to see and get. Holiday weeks that aren't event weeks have been easy to get. High season weeks have been easy to reserve. Marriott's current system has many owners complaining that they can't get a summer week at their own resort. I believe a points based reservation system will resolve this issue, not create it. You're pulling a figure out of the air and it's a rather high figure. My feeling is this is a scare tactic on your part. Can you name any points based system that charges that much?
Again, name a system that charges that much. If you don't have documentation of a fee, don't quote a fee. Remember, after you're list little deletion fest, the rules have changed here. Tuggers will be able to call you on your false predictions this time around.
It does now. No change that I can see
[*]Delinquent MFs force suspension of account and reservations; reactivation fee charged after MF paid

I don't believe there is a grace period now either. In fact, some systems won't allow you to deposit/exchange your week unless future MF's have been paid.
Another scary number that isn't base on fact. You're way off base. I don't know of any points based system where the internal exchange fee is higher than Interval's. Can you name one? I bet you can't and there's a reason for that. Internal exchange systems are set up to ENCOURAGE internal exchanges. Charging more than the outside exchange companies has the opposite effect. Again, I'm certain your numbers are not only a guess but a very unreasonable guess at that.
No basis in fact. Other systems still allow for rentals. You're just whipping up scare tactics again with no basis in fact. You're showing a lack of knowledge of other points based reservations systems.
One last prediction that I predict won't be true at all.
[/LIST]



If you're going to guess, I'd suggest you take some time to study how other points based systems are being run in the U.S. market. I'm guessing the majority of your guesses are way off base. A system like that woudln't be competitive in the U.S. market. In fact, it would be laughed at.

Stop playing chicken little. The sky is NOT falling.[/QUOTE]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm just one Marriott owner with a single Gold Week at Summit Watch so this new scheme will have a HUGE impact on me - I mean HUGE.


In the past 5+ years I've exchanged my Gold Week at Summit Watch to 3 years at the Maui Ocean Club and 1 Christmas week at Summit Watch and 1 Christmas week at MountainSide.

The new exchange scheme will stop that in its tracks - I am going to get screwed by this. This was the reason I bought a resale Gold Summit Watch and the reason I'll sell it at a loss when the scheme is implemented.

I paid $5,500 for the Gold Summit Watch and stay at Marriotts that they charge $60,000+ and pay 50% more in MFs.

No other Marriott owner wanted those weeks in II for 24 days and those weeks were going into the general II pool and I got the weeks instead. What's wrong with that?

I'm doing my part by presenting a "Worst Cane Scenario" since I believe this will have a VERY negative impact on me and thousands of other Marriott owners.

Others are perfectly ok to present Marriott's side - the best thing to happen to Marriott owners since the timeshare was cooked up in Europe.

For a Fortune 500 company to spread the same rumor for 4+ years means that it's going to be onerous to Marriott Owners. If it was going to be a great thing for us owners it would be kept secret and released at the proper moment - the time when it would boost owner relations with Marriott.

Instead, Marriott's agents, the timeshare salesreps, have been threatening owners and possible customers with threats of doom and gloom for the resale market. This can't be good for Marriott owners.

But to those folks who wear rose-colored glasses and view the glass as half full keep dreaming.....keep dreaming...

 

[pwrshift]

I own 6 platinum weeks, 10 weeks with lockoff splits, but would never participate in any points based program where any of my weeks would not trade for the same time at other resorts. On the other hand, I bought where I wanted to use and usually the only trades I do are to upgrade a studio to a 1 or 2 bdrm in my home resorts. Can't see any points program of any benefit to me.

Brian

 

[Latravel]

Besides our Marriott timeshares, we own another points based program and we really enjoy it. Just for some ideas for our discussion....

In this points based system, a point is a point. It doesn't matter from which timeshare you got those points as they all hold equal weight. There is no reserving of a week and depositing one year in advance. All you have to do is see if the week you want is available and if you have enough points.

The advantage is you can reserve by day or by week. If you want to take a 5 day trip to NYC (which we do) it "costs" less points that a 7 nt stay.

Another perk to a points based program is that any inventory left within 60 day (like our flexchange), there is a reduced number of points needed to get the week. As a comparison, a week somewhere may be 50-80,000 points but any week left in inventory within 60 days is only 7500-9000 points. The point "cost" is never more than 9000 points.

Maintenance fees are based on the number of points you have. If you have 100K points per year, you will pay more MF than someone who has 32K points per year.

Maybe we are open to seeing what Marriott is offering because we have some experience with a points system and like it. Then again, we never had anything to compare it to. Like M has said before, it is difficult to revamp an existing program.

 

[sdtugger]

High Demand Weeks

Not only do I wonder about the trade availability for high demand weeks in a new system, I also wonder about the availability of reservations under the old system for high demand weeks after a new system is installed.

I see some huge areas for potential Marriott mischief. If a Hawaii platinum week owner decides to join the new program, what week will Marriott take from inventory for that owner? If Marriott decides that all new program weeks will come from week 52 and then week 51, and then summer, and then Presidents day, etc., there will be a revolt and it won't be pretty.

Marriott (if you are reading): If this new trading scheme messes up my ability to reserve the same high demand week that I've been reserving for years, I will not be a happy camper and I'm sure I won't be alone. Home use rights are guaranteed by deed and I think Marriott will have a losing lawsuit on their hands if they do anything that diminishes those rights.

I'm trying to find something positive about this potential new system, I really am . . .

 

[DanCali]

If a Hawaii platinum week owner decides to join the new program, what week will Marriott take from inventory for that owner?

Week 26 or 52...

This should already be a concern - what are they reserving now when people convert to hotel points?

With Starwood, they have a clause allowing them to reserve units based on anticipated hotel point conversions (SVO retail/requal owners can convert by March 31 and Elite Owners by June or October) as well as anticipated II deposits (Starwood chooses the weeks to deposit into II). See this link....

Not sure how it's handled by Marriott, but they weren't born yesterday...

This is what a points system does. It makes the management company more flexible in skimming off the top under the disguise of more flexibility to owners. My guess is many owners will like it because they won't see what's going on. Many owners will also hate it due to loss of "trading power" of gold/silver/bronze weeks (e.g Perry). My guess it many tuggers will be disgusted for other reasons when they read the fine print...

Marriott is not out to please minority of owners who are also tuggers... but I hope the prospect of 200,000+ dissatisfied owners makes them rethink the wisdom of this (if it's being considered at all...)

 

[rsackett]

I may be naive but the only thing that worries me about Marriott rolling out a new "Internal Exchange System" is if Marriott decides that this is THE internal exchange system and eliminates the Marriott preference period in II.

Ray

 

[dougp26364]

I'm just one Marriott owner with a single Gold Week at Summit Watch so this new scheme will have a HUGE impact on me - I mean HUGE.

I'm sorry but, how do you KNOW it's going to have any impact on your ownership at all? Have you actually seen the plans? If you have then you must be someone special because no one else on these forums has seen anything.

I can agree that there is the potential for a impact but, I can't agree that it's going to be anything huge. The reason being is that one points based system I'm in has a variety of owners. Some deeded weeks that trade the traditional way. Some points based exchange. Some are trust based ownerships. If I had left my deeded weeks outside the points based system, there was NO impact. I would have just kept exchanging them the way they were. NO CHANGES AND NO IMPACT. You're assuming WAY to much and being very dramatic about it.

In the past 5+ years I've exchanged my Gold Week at Summit Watch to 3 years at the Maui Ocean Club and 1 Christmas week at Summit Watch and 1 Christmas week at MountainSide.

The new exchange scheme will stop that in its tracks - I am going to get screwed by this. This was the reason I bought a resale Gold Summit Watch and the reason I'll sell it at a loss when the scheme is implemented.

Again, how do you KNOW this. They haven't announced any new system as of yet. There is no way to know that this will happen. You're seeing shadows on the wall and not anything of substance. Much like the exchange figures you've pulled out of the air, you're all worried about something that HAS NOT happened. The impact could be minimal and, my bet is you'll have a choice. You're fear is you'll have either no choice or, you're afraid Marriott is going to soak you for fee's you're not willing to pay.

I had a choice with DRI. Stay as I was or pay $2,995 to join their points based system. I sat down, looked at what I had accomplished in the past. I looked at what it would have taken to accomplish the same thing in their points based system. Judged the TRUE impact ant THEN made my decision on whether it was a good thing or a bad thing. YOU CAN NOT MAKE DEFINITVIE STATEMENTS UNTIL YOU KNOW THE FACTS!

I paid $5,500 for the Gold Summit Watch and stay at Marriotts that they charge $60,000+ and pay 50% more in MFs.

No other Marriott owner wanted those weeks in II for 24 days and those weeks were going into the general II pool and I got the weeks instead. What's wrong with that?

Nothing unless as a direct buyer, you're jealous. I have read it before that owners in the Marriott system feel that, if Marriott only had the points based system HGVC has, they'd be the best system in the world. What's wrong with that?

I'm doing my part by presenting a "Worst Cane Scenario" since I believe this will have a VERY negative impact on me and thousands of other Marriott owners.

More like you're grabbing at straws and tilting at windmills. Your panicing when panic isn't warrented. Something is likely to happen. Exactly what that is none of us know. Like Fletch stated, you're reading far more into this than there is at this point. Timeshare changes. You should know that. It has changed drastically since we bought our first unit back in 1998. The trend has become internal systems and those systems favor points based reservations. It is very likely that Marriott will embrace that sort of system and it appears it will be sooner than later. Until we actually can see the program, there is no worst case scenario. There are just unwarrented assumptions that aren't based on any fact. Everything you're posting is FICTION based on your irrational fear that Marriott is out to get you. I promise you there is no sign hanging at Marriott headquarters that says let's get the resale buyers and stick it to them as bad as we can. I just don't bleiever there aren't that many resale buyers for them to be concerned about.

Others are perfectly ok to present Marriott's side - the best thing to happen to Marriott owners since the timeshare was cooked up in Europe.

So tell me, what is Marriott's side? I don't know. I'm certain you don't know. I'm pretty certain that the only people posting here that have half a clue would be DaveM and Fletch and Fletch has already stated people are over reacting. At this point there are no sides. Only speculation and guessing.

For a Fortune 500 company to spread the same rumor for 4+ years means that it's going to be onerous to Marriott Owners. If it was going to be a great thing for us owners it would be kept secret and released at the proper moment - the time when it would boost owner relations with Marriott.

Instead, Marriott's agents, the timeshare salesreps, have been threatening owners and possible customers with threats of doom and gloom for the resale market. This can't be good for Marriott owners.

But to those folks who wear rose-colored glasses and view the glass as half full keep dreaming.....keep dreaming...

Again back to the salesmen. What's the number one rule of a timeshare sales presentation? If their lips are moving, they're lying.

Of course they'll spread rumors. They are comissioned sales people. If they don't sell prospects they don't eat. I don't like to mention the R word in a presentation because the conversation takes on a entirely different meaning then. It's at that point they try to put the fear of the system into me and make me feel I'm not worthy unless I buy from them. It's a guilt trip or scare tactic and nothing more. Looks like they got you steppin' pretty darn good.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Of course they'll spread rumors. They are comissioned sales people. If they don't sell prospects they don't eat. I don't like to mention the R word in a presentation because the conversation takes on a entirely different meaning then. It's at that point they try to put the fear of the system into me and make me feel I'm not worthy unless I buy from them. It's a guilt trip or scare tactic and nothing more. Looks like they got you steppin' pretty darn good.

I must be either really naive, really lucky, or living in some alternate universe! Because during our sales presentations we specifically asked about any differences between the Marriott-direct and external-resale products, both what was current and what could be in the future. We wanted to get those answers!

And as unbelievable as it sounds, our rep was completely honest in her answers! "Currently only the ability to exchange for MRP, in the future only what isn't specifically prohibited by the contracts but I don't know of anything in the pipeline." (And of course, some related stuff about how she had been able to take some "fantabulous!" trips with MRP, and the current values at the time for MRP, and the fact that the MRP points were set and the MRP exchange option wasn't guaranteed for the life of the ownership - but nothing there either that turned out to be a lie.)

Why shouldn't the reps say if something is in the pipeline? I understand they shouldn't lie, that's a given, but why shouldn't they be able to say today that Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which may impact weeks on the resale market more than weeks available from the developer? Yes, it will potentially scare off somebody who rightly thinks, "why in my right mind would I buy ANYthing before this is either tabled or rolled out?!" But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs. I want that honesty from the sales reps (not the lies and exaggerations that hurt the product,) and don't want them to simply say nothing about all this and try to sell as if nothing big might be happening. That's as dishonest, IMO.

 

[PerryM]

I must be either really naive, really lucky, or living in some alternate universe! Because during our sales presentations we specifically asked about any differences between the Marriott-direct and external-resale products, both what was current and what could be in the future. We wanted to get those answers!

And as unbelievable as it sounds, our rep was completely honest in her answers! "Currently only the ability to exchange for MRP, in the future only what isn't specifically prohibited by the contracts but I don't know of anything in the pipeline." (And of course, some related stuff about how she had been able to take some "fantabulous!" trips with MRP, and the current values at the time for MRP, and the fact that the MRP points were set and the MRP exchange option wasn't guaranteed for the life of the ownership - but nothing there either that turned out to be a lie.)

Why shouldn't the reps say if something is in the pipeline? I understand they shouldn't lie, that's a given, but why shouldn't they be able to say today that Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which may impact weeks on the resale market more than weeks available from the developer? Yes, it will potentially scare off somebody who rightly thinks, "why in my right mind would I buy ANYthing before this is either tabled or rolled out?!" But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs. I want that honesty from the sales reps (not the lies and exaggerations that hurt the product,) and don't want them to simply say nothing about all this and try to sell as if nothing big might be happening. That's as dishonest, IMO.

This is what Marriott should have been saying for 4+ years and not the garbage they spew now.

Marriott management has know of this all along and fosters the rumors - this is despicable for a Fortune 500 company; but not for the typical sleazy timeshare organization.

 

[sdtugger]

But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs.

What increased "usage value" do you see with the new system for developer weeks (or resale weeks that pay a higher fee)? I'm sincerely asking here. I've described my concerns that high demand weeks will not be available for trade. If that's true, what is the increased usage value?

 

[SueDonJ]

... "Currently only the ability to exchange for MRP, in the future only what isn't specifically prohibited by the contracts but I don't know of anything in the pipeline." ...

This is what Marriott should have been saying for 4+ years and not the garbage they spew now. ...

Well, Perry, then they'd be lying, because it's pretty much a given that something IS in the pipeline. Which is why I want them to be saying this -

... Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which may impact weeks on the resale market more than weeks available from the developer ...

 

[DanCali]

But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs.

The day this happens is the day resale prices really start free falling... and buyers would be foolish to buy into a system where what they buy depreciates by 95% after 8 or 11 days...

 

[SueDonJ]

... But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs. ...

What increased "usage value" do you see with the new system for developer weeks (or resale weeks that pay a higher fee)? I'm sincerely asking here. I've described my concerns that high demand weeks will not be available for trade. If that's true, what is the increased usage value?

Oh. That is confusing, sorry. I'm not thinking of any specific usage value because no details are available. I'm just thinking that the possibility exists that after (if) a new plan is rolled out, some potential owners might reach the conclusion that a developer week would work better for them depending on how they would use their ownership.

That's why I said it "may" lead an owner to a developer week. Does it make my thinking any more clear if I change the wording up there and add, "...consideration, it may lead some buyers to still buy resale, but it may also ...?"

 

[SueDonJ]

We all pretty much agree that there was a time when purchasing from the developer could make sense, right? When specific desired inventory wasn't available on the resale market, when MRP exchange was more valuable and/or considered by certain buyers to be a benefit for their usage needs, when the overall resale market wasn't as severely depressed as it is now, when purchase incentives were more valuable ...? Can we at least agree on that?

So why is it so far beyond the realm of possibility for some now to believe that Marriott could be developing a plan whereby some owners will be able to find usage value in a developer purchase again? And why is it assumed automatically that adding value to developer purchases will "destroy" and "decimate" the resale market? That didn't happen when the above was the norm, did it?

What if the new exchange system does turn out to be as simple as an overlay points exchange system with a $1K cost to add a resale week? We all choose whether or not to join, our home resort usage stays the same, and sellers on the resale market absorb that $1K cost. That's not a "destroyed" resale market.

What if it's a system that offers increased MRP-exchange value and purchase incentives to developer conversions/purchasers, while at the same time allowing similar internal exchange opportunities that we get now with II, but they work out the kinks so that it's an instant exchange system? That would be perfect for some folks but wouldn't impact the resale market to a drastic extent either.

I love DVC's point system. Love it! If Marriott rolled out a similar plan with home resort priorities, the ability to combine everything owned to one total points package, different point values assigned to home resort ownership as well as exchange options based on resort/#BR/view/season, banking and borrowing options ... I'd look very seriously at it, even if what I own might not get me the same week-for-week currently available in II. Add in that it would be an RTU-conversion and I'd be in heaven, because then my kids won't get saddled with a financial commitment. That would be perfect usage value for me, and I'd happily pay an initiation fee as well as consider future developer purchases.

All this to say, I don't think a new internal exchange system will be the end of the timesharing world as we know it, or that we all may as well kiss the dollars we've invested in timesharing good-bye because Marriott's on the verge of imploding. I'm excited to see what they might come up with, and really don't understand the doom-and-gloom panic here.

 

[Pit]

Well, Perry, then they'd be lying, because it's pretty much a given that something IS in the pipeline. Which is why I want them to be saying this -

... Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which may impact weeks on the resale market more than weeks available from the developer ...

It would be more accurate if they said this ...

... Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which will devalue all weeks sold on the resale market. Owners who purchased from the developer will see a larger decline in value due to the higher price paid at the time of purchase ...

but, I won't hold my breath.

 

[AwayWeGo]

No Time, No Way, No How.

We all pretty much agree that there was a time when purchasing from the developer could make sense, right?

No way, José.

Nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight is ever worth the money, period.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars on excactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[m61376]

Doug- I was wondering- in the system you mentioned where there were converted point weeks and where others retained their week ownership- how did that impact the MF's? IF Plat. week owners get more points than Bronze week owners (which probably is a given) and IF MF's are charged per point, that Plat. owner that converted to points would be paying more than the Bronze week owner, and theoretically the Plat. week owner's MF's would rise and the Bronze week owner's decrease. What about the Plat. or Bronze week owner that chooses not to convert? What happens to their MF's- can you have a situation where a converted Plat. week pays more than a non-converted Plat. week and a converted Bronze week pays less than a non-converted Bronze week? The MF issue is I guess my biggest concern when a new program is superimposed on an old.

I am not saying that point based systems don't have their merits- just that superimposing one on a functioning system may be fraught with issues.

 

[lovearuba]

C'mon

I must be either really naive, really lucky, or living in some alternate universe! Because during our sales presentations we specifically asked about any differences between the Marriott-direct and external-resale products, both what was current and what could be in the future. We wanted to get those answers!

And as unbelievable as it sounds, our rep was completely honest in her answers! "Currently only the ability to exchange for MRP, in the future only what isn't specifically prohibited by the contracts but I don't know of anything in the pipeline." (And of course, some related stuff about how she had been able to take some "fantabulous!" trips with MRP, and the current values at the time for MRP, and the fact that the MRP points were set and the MRP exchange option wasn't guaranteed for the life of the ownership - but nothing there either that turned out to be a lie.)


Why shouldn't the reps say if something is in the pipeline? I understand they shouldn't lie, that's a given, but why shouldn't they be able to say today that Marriott is and has been strongly considering an internal exchange system which may impact weeks on the resale market more than weeks available from the developer? Yes, it will potentially scare off somebody who rightly thinks, "why in my right mind would I buy ANYthing before this is either tabled or rolled out?!" But if it's the truth, and at this point it does seem to be a strong consideration, it may also potentially lead any buyers back to Marriott when/if it's rolled out and the buyer realizes that a developer week will have more usage value than a resale week for his/her vacationing needs. I want that honesty from the sales reps (not the lies and exaggerations that hurt the product,) and don't want them to simply say nothing about all this and try to sell as if nothing big might be happening. That's as dishonest, IMO.

Can you at least consider that your experience with sales people may not be what some of us experienced. I know the one I dealt with was a bold face liar and I know he represented Marriott so Marriott is responsible for the boat load of lies they allow them to tell. Guess I'm a little more than disgruntled.

 

[PerryM]

Looking from the gutter upwards...

Well, Perry, then they'd be lying, because it's pretty much a given that something IS in the pipeline. Which is why I want them to be saying this -

All Marriott has to do is instruct their minions of salesreps that if they bring up the topic of an "Internal Exchange System" they will be fired on the spot. There would not be 4 years of rumors scaring Ma and Pa at sales presentation.

Instead Marriott can't hold back and blabs the rumor to anyone listening - why? And for 4+ years now.

Selling something that you don't have for sale is a stupid sales tactic - you make no sales.

Scaring folks into not dealing with the competition (that would be you and I) is another thing all together - that's what this rumor is all about.

Just you remember that you, the Marriott owner, is Marriott's worst nightmare.

This is gutter marketing tactics from a gutter marketing organization MVCI.

 

[SueDonJ]

Can you at least consider that your experience with sales people may not be what some of us experienced. I know the one I dealt with was a bold face liar and I know he represented Marriott so Marriott is responsible for the boat load of lies they allow them to tell. Guess I'm a little more than disgruntled.

Well yeah, I do consider that, which is why whenever I point out that my sales rep was decent, I also say that the rest of them shouldn't lie because it hurts the product. I'm pretty sure we all want the same thing - salespeople who present the product exactly as it is.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Just you remember that you, the Marriott owner, is Marriott's worst nightmare. ...

Now really, Perry. I might be near the top of their Worst Nightmare List, but those Week 3 Aruba folks have me beat by a country mile.

 

[dougp26364]

Sue,

I think the only impact any new program might have on resale buyers is that Marriott might charge them more to join the new program than those that bought developer. Based on what Fletch stated earlier in this thread, it appears that those who bought developer might have to pay a $500 joiner fee while those that bought reslae might have to pay $1,000 or $1,500.

If an current owner elects not to join how will it affect them? No one, not even Perry, knows. We'll all just have to wait and see. It might be that all who don't join any new program will still enjoy the same benefits of the old program. That is, the 24 day exclusive right to exchange into any Marriott week deposited with Interval. That would include all the points weeks that are deposited for Interval exchanges as well as those in the weeks exchange program.

At this point, I wouldn't consider any of the speculation or predictions about what the program might look like. It could be a lot of different things and it might not be any of the things discussed here on this thread. The one person closest to the action stated we were all over thinking this thing and that it wasn't going to be as complicated or convuleted as we're making it.

Some are focused on what the salesmen have said at the round table in an attempt to scare them into buying developer weeks rather than resale. It didn't scare them into buying developer weeks but, it did scare them. It's a shame that anyone would let what a TS salesman said in a sale interview disturb them so much that it caused this much worry.

 

[dougp26364]

Well yeah, I do consider that, which is why whenever I point out that my sales rep was decent, I also say that the rest of them shouldn't lie because it hurts the product. I'm pretty sure we all want the same thing - salespeople who present the product exactly as it is.

But then they wouldn't be timeshare salesmen.

They all lie or, at the very least, don't know their product because they don't own it or they own it because the company says they have to own at least one week but they don't actually use it.

There are simply different degree's of truth stretchers in my opinion. In the past, Marriott and Hilton sales reps had been amongst the best at low pressure and keeping the facts mostly straight. Lately though, not so much. I won't ever set foot on a Hilton timeshare floor after our last experience. For the most part I've had little trouble with Marriott sales people other than they really didn't know their product as well as they should. I have overheard other salesmen on the floor telling some whoppers while we were talking with our representative.