Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[taffy19]

Thanks, iconnections; I thought it was you who had posted before about being "caught" by that change.

m, IF a new exchange program is rolled out and IF the only difference for resale and direct buyers is a sliding initiation fee, how will that be "creating an ownership class system?" I do see it as similar to the 13-mo rule, in that folks will have to decide for themselves if it makes sense to pay a premium for a certain usage benefit.

Again, I agree with you. If there is a sliding scale, one has to make a choice of joining or not just like it was for us to buy a second week to get the 13 months' in advance reservation perk. We decided against it because you have to keep adding more weeks to keep getting the best weeks. We hardly ever exchange so doubt if we will join the new system either.

I don't see the sliding scale to be a hurdle because it is to Marriott's advantage to get as many owners aboard to make the new system a success.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Half the inventory is available but does that mean half of the most desirable weeks? Who says that as it may be the weeks for the whole season and the best weeks go first. We noticed a big difference after this new perk. It no longer affects us now but it can happen again with a new system. This is what Sue was trying to mention.

m is correct in that the 13-mo rule limits reservations to only 50% of the available inventory for each week, so that at the 12-mo mark the remaining 50% is released. The unwritten rule now is that owners who want high-demand weeks had better be ready at 9AM on the dot on the first eligible (13-mo and 12-mo) days, which perhaps wasn't necessary prior to that change because that was the beginning of MVCI's existence and there were fewer owners overall? Regardless, it does negatively impact single-week reservations, as we all have found when we're trying to get a high-demand week at the 12-mo mark. As well, single-week owners lose the advantage to multi-week owners at both the 13-mo mark when they're not eligible to call, and at the 12-mo mark when they're competing with all owners not just the other single-week owners.

There are so few owners on TUG who were around at the time the 13-mo rule was implemented. I wonder if it wasn't "loosely interpreted" (as so many stated MVCI rules are) at the very beginning so that 50% of the inventory for a season - instead of a week - was reserved prior to the single-week owners being able to call in. I don't know, just thinking out loud ... But regardless, it's understandable that when it was implemented, even if it wasn't loosely interpreted, it caused problems for single-week owners that they hadn't had before.

And you're correct, too, in that I'm only trying to mention that Marriott has a history of changing things so that only certain owners might be negatively impacted. I'm not saying I know that they'll do it again, only that it wouldn't surprise me if it happened again because history usually repeats.

 

[DanCali]

IF a new exchange program is rolled out and IF the only difference for resale and direct buyers is a sliding initiation fee, how will that be "creating an ownership class system?" I do see it as similar to the 13-mo rule, in that folks will have to decide for themselves if it makes sense to pay a premium for a certain usage benefit.

The 13 month rule was intended to promote sales. There is nothing preventing ANY owner from buying another unit (retail or resale) and getting that benefit. It is not discriminatory.

A different initiation fee discriminates between different owners and seems punitive. "Discriminate" is a strong word but look up the definition and tell me if this won't qualify.... There is no way for a resale owner to avoid this penalty, unless they just don't buy in. The cannot just "convert" to retail...

 

[PerryM]

Apples and Oranges...

Thanks, iconnections; I thought it was you who had posted before about being "caught" by that change.

m, IF a new exchange program is rolled out and IF the only difference for resale and direct buyers is a sliding initiation fee, how will that be "creating an ownership class system?" I do see it as similar to the 13-mo rule, in that folks will have to decide for themselves if it makes sense to pay a premium for a certain usage benefit.

ANY Marriott owner, developer bought or resale, can use the 13-month rule with multiple weeks of ownership. Makes no difference where the units were bought.

The new Internal Exchange System is going to be a different animal - you must buy something direct from Marriott to exchange with fellow Marriott owners. Either you buy direct or pay a membership fee which does NOT pass with ownership to the new owner.

Marriott is erecting a barrier for owners who used to be able to exchange their units with II - owners at the same resort are going to be prevented from exchanging usage among themselves.

This is a hostile attack on Marriott owners who now have freedom to exchange usage among themselves via II. All to enrich Marriott stockholders while screwing Marriott owners.

If Marriott want's to introduce an owner friendly Internal Exchange System they will not even mention where the unit was bought. If they introduce a caste system of ownership then this is all for Marriott's benefit; a cheap sales gimmick by a sleazy timeshare company.

 

[taffy19]

Susan, "m" is saying that even the arrival dates of the weeks are cut in half so it shoudn't have made a difference to us so long ago now. I just realized that we had bought at a brand new resort (Marriott Desert Springs Villas II) so that gave Palm Desert many new units but we always made reservations for DSV-I as we liked it better but other owners may have wanted to exchange to a newer resort. One thing I do know is that we were on the phone at or before 6 AM PST. I remember posting our frustration here.

June is here soon enough and all of us will know what will happen or nothing at all so all the worry is for nothing. I feel that Marriott owes us an explanation or some report to ease our uncertainties and also for their benefit so people may buy again even if it is a resale as they will pay the maintenance fees and delinquencies will stay low.

 

[wuv pooh]

I agree with Fletch. Way overthinking it.

There are already two classes of owner:

The wolves - Us here on Tug
The sheep - Everyone else

Marriott will take care of the sheep because they pay the bills. The wolves will take care of themselves and we will know how ~ 2 days after the new system is released, if ever.

Think of it more like the Marriott Rewards system.

Direct owners get it.
Resale owners can get it by paying a large fee to Marriott or a Marriott approved broker. Definitely at purchase, remember at least one example of after the fact and numerous examples of resales being added to the point system as part of a deal for a new developer week.

For the new exchange system

New direct owners will get it.
Resale owners can get it if they pay Marriott a big fee
Old direct owners will have something in the middle.

Don't see any issue with it. I think it is pretty standard because in both the contracts I signed I had to acknowledge that I was not buying based on any current or future exchange system. That was an option, but not inherent in the real estate interest and subject to change. Also why the TUG rule exists to buy where you want to stay.

The sheep will gladly exchange the uncertainty of exchanges for the surety of a points system. The sheep don't expect their $11k Horizons Gold to trade into a $40k Grande Ocean Platinum week like I do. They will gladly trade two years to go on a lifetime trip to Hawaii if they know they are guaranteed a 2BD and don't have to worry about waiting and hassle. Most people want things simple. Marriott will keep those people happy just like they did with the rental program.

 

[taffy19]

Perry, I do not agree with you. One week owners had to buy a second week to get the 13 months advantage. It was a smart sales tool for Marriott to sell more weeks.

If the new system is for every one but at a sliding scale, every one can get the new exchange system. The difference in price to join should be minimal if Marriott wants to attract most owners to join. This makes business sense and they are not out to punish resale buyers. They may have a grace period so why worry about it as they will do what is best for their bottom line and try to keep their current owner base happy and loyal. Are you an alarmist and like excitement and a good story?

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm sorry, I am just NOT getting all this outrage over Marriott implementing a fee for resales to join an internal exchange system. I'm just not. It will simply be one way for Marriott to extract revenue from a source that's up until now not been available to them. If the market will support Marriott's attempt to collect the fees, then the business plan is sustainable. Simple as that.

If Fletch is correct, the difference in fees between direct purchases and external resales will be $1K. Realistically, that fee is not nearly enough to "decimate" and "destroy" all future resales - it's practically a drop in the bucket compared to the ongoing devaluations in the market. Besides which, it will most likely be absorbed by the seller. Why is it NOW okay to scream and yell and cry poor over a seller's loss, when resale buyers have been only too willing to take advantage of the losses that sellers have been taking FOR YEARS on the external resale market? This argument seems so transparent to me - the only reason resale buyers are upset is because they're now, for the first time, going to become beneficiaries of Marriott's standard business practices which do allow devaluations and have resulted in negative usage value for certain owners. "Welcome to the real world" seems appropriate here.

They're not taking away the basic right to exchange. Any owner can choose to not join and exchange his/her week(s) exactly the same way as now - deposit with II (or whichever exchange company MVCI contracts with at the time of the exchange,) exchange for MRP (as long as that option remains available,) join and exchange through another company that does not have a contractual affiliation with MVCI, exchange privately with other owners individually or through the many websites set up for that ... None of those options will be unavailable by the simple implementation of an internal exchange system. Impacted by reduced inventory, sure. But that's where the consumer's choice to pay a premium for added value comes in. Again, it's simply business.

 

[PerryM]

Just the beginning folks...

I agree with Fletch. Way overthinking it.

There are already two classes of owner:

The wolves - Us here on Tug
The sheep - Everyone else

Marriott will take care of the sheep because they pay the bills. The wolves will take care of themselves and we will know how ~ 2 days after the new system is released, if ever.

Think of it more like the Marriott Rewards system.

Direct owners get it.
Resale owners can get it by paying a large fee to Marriott or a Marriott approved broker. Definitely at purchase, remember at least one example of after the fact and numerous examples of resales being added to the point system as part of a deal for a new developer week.

For the new exchange system

New direct owners will get it.
Resale owners can get it if they pay Marriott a big fee
Old direct owners will have something in the middle.

Don't see any issue with it. I think it is pretty standard because in both the contracts I signed I had to acknowledge that I was not buying based on any current or future exchange system. That was an option, but not inherent in the real estate interest and subject to change. Also why the TUG rule exists to buy where you want to stay.

The sheep will gladly exchange the uncertainty of exchanges for the surety of a points system. The sheep don't expect their $11k Horizons Gold to trade into a $40k Grande Ocean Platinum week like I do. They will gladly trade two years to go on a lifetime trip to Hawaii if they know they are guaranteed a 2BD and don't have to worry about waiting and hassle. Most people want things simple. Marriott will keep those people happy just like they did with the rental program.

Marriott is fundamentally changing the PRIMARY reason folks buy timeshares - to exchange usage among themselves. This is a VERY big deal.

There is nothing wrong with the II system used by hundreds of thousands of existing Marriott owners - we have a 24 day exclusive internal exchange system now.

Marriott wants to destroy the perfectly good existing system and prevent Marriott owners from enjoying their primary reason for buying a Marriott - to exchange usage among Marriott owners.

This is a VERY big deal.

What's to stop Marriott from amending the 13-month rule next?

I'm not talking about 13-month reservations within the same resort - Marriott could easily demand that in order to use the 13-month rule between resorts you must belong to the new exchange system?

Well; they cooked up the 13-month rule between resorts they can amend it any time they want.

Don't assume that Marriott's war on owners stops at this one sales gimmick - they can do a lot of damage to us if they want - and it sounds like they don't care as long as they make a few more bucks.

Once owners roll over on this issue there will be more issues shoved down our throats; a track record will have been established.

I for one will continue to point out that this is all for Marriott's benefit at our expense.

 

[Clemson Fan]

I agree with Fletch. Way overthinking it.

There are already two classes of owner:

The wolves - Us here on Tug
The sheep - Everyone else

Marriott will take care of the sheep because they pay the bills. The wolves will take care of themselves and we will know how ~ 2 days after the new system is released, if ever.

Think of it more like the Marriott Rewards system.

Direct owners get it.
Resale owners can get it by paying a large fee to Marriott or a Marriott approved broker. Definitely at purchase, remember at least one example of after the fact and numerous examples of resales being added to the point system as part of a deal for a new developer week.

For the new exchange system

New direct owners will get it.
Resale owners can get it if they pay Marriott a big fee
Old direct owners will have something in the middle.

Don't see any issue with it. I think it is pretty standard because in both the contracts I signed I had to acknowledge that I was not buying based on any current or future exchange system. That was an option, but not inherent in the real estate interest and subject to change. Also why the TUG rule exists to buy where you want to stay.

The sheep will gladly exchange the uncertainty of exchanges for the surety of a points system. The sheep don't expect their $11k Horizons Gold to trade into a $40k Grande Ocean Platinum week like I do. They will gladly trade two years to go on a lifetime trip to Hawaii if they know they are guaranteed a 2BD and don't have to worry about waiting and hassle. Most people want things simple. Marriott will keep those people happy just like they did with the rental program.

This is a great post!

As for the rest of this thread, all I can say is blah blah blah. It's become just a back and forth between a few people beating a dead horse. This thread just needs to die IMO.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Who Says It's The Primary Reason ?

Marriott is fundamentally changing the PRIMARY reason folks buy timeshares - to exchange usage among themselves.

Around here, the primary reason for buying timeshares is going there, checking in, & enjoying a nice vacation right there on site at the timeshare resort.

Exchanging is strictly an optional add-on, a secondary consideration all the way.

When did exchanging usage among timeshare owners -- even Marriott timeshare owners -- become the primary reason for buying ?

Sounds like weasel-speak to me.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SueDonJ]

This is a great post!

As for the rest of this thread, all I can say is blah blah blah. It's become just a back and forth between a few people beating a dead horse. This thread just needs to die IMO.

Agree, great post!

But you folks always want to kill off the horse long before it's ready to be buried! Where's the fun in that? Take a cat's view - you gotta enjoy the mouse for a while before you drop it on the doormat and wander away.

 

[SueDonJ]

The 13 month rule was intended to promote sales. There is nothing preventing ANY owner from buying another unit (retail or resale) and getting that benefit. It is not discriminatory.

A different initiation fee discriminates between different owners and seems punitive. "Discriminate" is a strong word but look up the definition and tell me if this won't qualify.... There is no way for a resale owner to avoid this penalty, unless they just don't buy in. The cannot just "convert" to retail...

Think about what the threads would have looked like if TUG as it exists today had been around when the 13-mo rule was implemented. I imagine there's no way that single-week owners were happy about it, or would have seen it as simply a business tool to promote sales. No, I think they would have felt like they were being treated as the red-headed stepchildren beside Marriott's favorite beauty queen multi-week owners.

After all, it's natural to feel that way if you believe that someone else is getting something that you're not, especially when you've thought all along that you were equals and didn't expect to be made to feel differently. Is it possible that a similar, natural feeling might be happening here?

 

[rsackett]

Man, after reading this thread I dumped my Marriott weeks before it was too late. I found some sucker to take them, I did not even have to pay him. All I had to do was pay all the costs of the transfer. I am so glad I dumped them while I still could.

Ray






:hysterical: Just kidding

 

[winger]

...

There are already two classes of owner:

The wolves - Us here on Tug
The sheep - Everyone else

Marriott will take care of the sheep because they pay the bills. ...

Just to lighten it up a little ... when I think of wolves and sheep, for some reason I envisio sheep getting the short end of the stick, like lined up happily waiting their turn at the slaughter house! Which, unfortunately, does NOT work as a good analogy for your example (if I understand your intent, correctly).

 

[sdtugger]

How Will This Make Folks Happy?

Moving on from the resale versus direct debate -- I've been trying to understand how the new system will make folks happy. In other words, what would make someone fork over more money? Under the current system, all owners can exchange via II. What "enhancements" would make owners think it is a good idea to pay an extra fee for the privilege of a new exchange option?

The points system that is used by other developers and in the MVCI asian program is rumored to be the vehicle. What is it that makes this new system attractive? Some have said that it is the guarantee of a trade reservation. But, I'm struggling with how that will be possible. Using Maui as an example, nearly 50% of the weeks are currently booked within minutes of becoming available (presidents week, spring break weeks, all of summer, thanksgiving, and Christmas weeks, etc.). How would a new points systme "guarantee" anyone that they could reserve a holiday or summer week in Maui?

Without such a guarantee, I can't see any reason to pay more dollars. Recognizing that we are working with rumors, I still can't understand how even the rumors make this a good deal. Please help me understand.

 

[winger]

This is a great post!

As for the rest of this thread, all I can say is blah blah blah. It's become just a back and forth between a few people beating a dead horse. This thread just needs to die IMO.

Heck, do NOT close this thread. It has been great enjoyment reading the different ideas, seeing some drama, etc. Makes my annual TUG fee seem like a GREAT value when compared to movie tickets nowadays

On a more serious note - I hope Marriott is smart enough to read stuff like this thread. It will only hopefully make their product more member/owner-friendly.

 

[winger]

Around here, the primary reason for buying timeshares is going there, checking in, & enjoying a nice vacation right there on site at the timeshare resort.

Exchanging is strictly an optional add-on, a secondary consideration all the way.

When did exchanging usage among timeshare owners -- even Marriott timeshare owners -- become the primary reason for buying ?

Sounds like weasel-speak to me.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Hi AwayYouGo. Actually, our ownerships (Marriott and non-Marriott) were purchased mainly for exchanging, NOT for going to our home resorts (e.g. Williamsburg VA is way too far for an annual car drive/trip, Las Vegas is NOT our type of town, etc.). Maybe our situation is different than the majority, but we could not find a nice resort nearby for the price we were willing to pay (we purchased most (though not all) of our units direct or resale but through the developer), plus we like the prospect of visiting different places every year (although it has not really turned out that way since we had kids starting 8 years ago)...

 

[PerryM]

Shark bites...

Around here, the primary reason for buying timeshares is going there, checking in, & enjoying a nice vacation right there on site at the timeshare resort.

Exchanging is strictly an optional add-on, a secondary consideration all the way.

When did exchanging usage among timeshare owners -- even Marriott timeshare owners -- become the primary reason for buying ?

Sounds like weasel-speak to me.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Thanks for the insult, I expected no less from you.

I'm on vacation until next week and then I'll supply links that prove, as a whole, the stats support exchanging is the primary usage of timeshares in the 21st century (NOT actual usage of their unit at their resort). I don't have Marriott numbers so they can't be used to refute the industry wide stats. We only have ARDA numbers to work with.

If someone has those number this week please publish them and save me some time next week.

When I check into a Wyndham/WorldMark resort there are lines specifically set aside for VIP or developer bought folks - what's to stop Marriott from doing the same now?

I can easily envision the MBA's at Marriott using the following logic:

• We have no new inventory to sell for the next few years
• We have hundreds of thousands of owners to plunder
• Create a caste system and exploit their ownership
• Falling resale prices mean larger profits from recycled resales

That's how I'd look at the mess Marriott is in now - myself.

Once Marriott creates a caste system with the new exchange system it's like one shark taking a bite out of a large, lethargic fish and the feeding frenzy begins...

That's what this whole damn topic is all about - exchanging; Marriott thinks its a big deal.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Marriott Internal Trading

A lot of Marriott owners don't realize this, but internal Marriott trading has been successfully been going on for about 10 years down in Florida amongst Five Marriott Resorts which are part of the Florida Club.

In this scenario, everyone who owns a member timeshare at these Resorts must pay an annual fee of $34, and this is regardless of whether they use the internal trading or not.

I recently used it for the first time, and it was a very simple, painless transaction. The basic concept is you can trade only into the season in which you actually own, so you can't go from Silver to Platinum, but you can go from Platinum to Platinum, Silver to Silver, and Gold to Gold at any of the member resorts.

Wouldn't it be nice if this concept (with it's current rules) was expanded to all USA MVCI Resorts......

Maybe others who have had positive experiences with the Florida Club would like to expand upon this for other Tuggers to read.

Who knows, maybe someone from Marriott is following this thread.......

 

[AwayWeGo]

Take It Easy There, Perry.

Thanks for the insult, I expected no less from you.

Hold on there, big fella -- I never called you a timeshare seller (i.e., weasel), or anything else insulting.

I did suggest that the idea of buying timeshares primarily for exchanging is timeshare seller talk -- i.e., weasel-speak.

After all, a main point in The Wisdom Of TUG is Buy Where You Actually Like To Go.

Plus, most of the people I've heard talking up timeshare trades -- not that I'm any kind of expert -- are timeshare sellers, not timeshare owners.

That's not to slam-dunk timeshare trades, only to point out that using timeshares is primary & exchanging is secondary.

No need to get hot under the collar over it.

And thanks for calling me up short so I could explain myself. I don't mind needling people now & then, but I draw the line at slinging deliberate insults.

Can't we all get along ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SueDonJ]

Moving on from the resale versus direct debate -- I've been trying to understand how the new system will make folks happy. In other words, what would make someone fork over more money? Under the current system, all owners can exchange via II. What "enhancements" would make owners think it is a good idea to pay an extra fee for the privilege of a new exchange option?

The points system that is used by other developers and in the MVCI asian program is rumored to be the vehicle. What is it that makes this new system attractive? Some have said that it is the guarantee of a trade reservation. But, I'm struggling with how that will be possible. Using Maui as an example, nearly 50% of the weeks are currently booked within minutes of becoming available (presidents week, spring break weeks, all of summer, thanksgiving, and Christmas weeks, etc.). How would a new points systme "guarantee" anyone that they could reserve a holiday or summer week in Maui?

Without such a guarantee, I can't see any reason to pay more dollars. Recognizing that we are working with rumors, I still can't understand how even the rumors make this a good deal. Please help me understand.

There are too many questions to say what they'll roll out, and therefore whether you can say definitely yes or no right now. But daydreaming ... if a new system can get me a 2BR plus something extra or a true 3BR in exchange for a 3BR then I'll be all ears. 3BRs are very limited to begin with and most lock-offs are deposited as two units so a 3BR for a 3BR in II rarely happens (never yet for us.) For a while my weeks got ACs so I thought of those as the something extra, but now II is severely limiting AC availability and one of my weeks hasn't gotten one for the last two years. As much as some folks routinely trade up in II, I'm beginning to feel like we have to trade down to make exchanging work.

Also, if Marriott's new system is set up similar to one that Doug has mentioned, where owners get priority for a time and then all inventory is released for points, then I'll look closely at that, too. Any system that isn't limited to whatever inventory is deposited by another owner might be a better system than II, even if it doesn't make holiday and high-demand weeks more available.

A points overlay system, where home resort usage isn't affected but exchanges are subject to a points value might be a consideration, if it offers the 2BR+ option outlined above as a trade-off for the inventory limited to deposits only. That I'd need to look at VERY closely.

We bought mainly for home resort usage, didn't think we'd do much exchanging at all - but then we learned here on TUG how much fun it could be and started thinking of all those "thousands of timeshares around the world" as a true benefit. But if any new internal exchange system that they roll out takes away completely a home resort advantage, it won't work for us. We'll happily vacation at Hilton Head forever.

 

[wuv pooh]

Moving on from the resale versus direct debate -- I've been trying to understand how the new system will make folks happy. In other words, what would make someone fork over more money? Under the current system, all owners can exchange via II. What "enhancements" would make owners think it is a good idea to pay an extra fee for the privilege of a new exchange option?

The points system that is used by other developers and in the MVCI asian program is rumored to be the vehicle. What is it that makes this new system attractive? Some have said that it is the guarantee of a trade reservation. But, I'm struggling with how that will be possible. Using Maui as an example, nearly 50% of the weeks are currently booked within minutes of becoming available (presidents week, spring break weeks, all of summer, thanksgiving, and Christmas weeks, etc.). How would a new points systme "guarantee" anyone that they could reserve a holiday or summer week in Maui?

Without such a guarantee, I can't see any reason to pay more dollars. Recognizing that we are working with rumors, I still can't understand how even the rumors make this a good deal. Please help me understand.

I think it is pretty simple. People value certainty and simplicity. The system will not make it easier to get peak weeks. It will guarantee that if a week is there and you have the points you will get it. Always an instant exchange.

Under the current II system you almost never see a good week online unless it is someone's cancellation in flexchange. Good weeks are taken by ongoing requests, but you never know if you have enough trade power to get the week you want. Sometimes it takes 6 or 9 months to get a match. People don't like that.

Think of the typical user - the sheep

First - they will believe Marriott and reserve any week in season not understanding that Manor Club on 4th of July has very different trade power than Manor Club in Mid Sept.

Second - they will place a hard request because they want to go someplace nice.

Third - the "helpful" II reps will call them every week telling them that they can't get the exchange, but we have other resorts available.

Fourth - they will get nervous, want to book airfare, get vacation approved, etc. so they will settle for what is offered.

The average person will be dissatisfied in this situtation because they do not understand how exchanging works and how II ranks the weeks power. It is a black box to them. They also do not have the flexibility to work the system and have a hard time planning a year in advance.

By contrast a points system is much easier to understand. You either have the points or you don't. You either called at the right time or you didn't. If someone deposits a stronger week they won't jump the line on you. It creates a different set of problems that Tuggers will take advantage of, but it will work better for the "normal" user on average.

 

[m61376]

A lot of Marriott owners don't realize this, but internal Marriott trading has been successfully been going on for about 10 years down in Florida amongst Five Marriott Resorts which are part of the Florida Club.

In this scenario, everyone who owns a member timeshare at these Resorts must pay an annual fee of $34, and this is regardless of whether they use the internal trading or not.

I recently used it for the first time, and it was a very simple, painless transaction. The basic concept is you can trade only into the season in which you actually own, so you can't go from Silver to Platinum, but you can go from Platinum to Platinum, Silver to Silver, and Gold to Gold at any of the member resorts.

Wouldn't it be nice if this concept (with it's current rules) was expanded to all USA MVCI Resorts......

Maybe others who have had positive experiences with the Florida Club would like to expand upon this for other Tuggers to read.

Who knows, maybe someone from Marriott is following this thread.......

I agree- the Florida Club has a lot of merits in its simplicity. However, realistically it is too limiting in that it doesn't allow for exchanges across seasons.

IF Marriott does adopt a program, based on their Asia Pacific program and their customer surveys, and what has filtered down the rumor mill, they are at least clearly considering a points based system, using points as a currency of sorts to allow exchanges between properties/times of different relative value. The problem inherent in this is that it will dramatically change the way people are used to trading.

As Sue pointed out, for owners of high value and larger units it may work well. They will have enough points to trade for a comparable week (high demand, 2 or 3 BR accommodations, etc.). Where the waters get very murky is that Marriott will decide which resorts are worthy of top point values, and many even Platinum week owners are likely to fall short. A Plat. week one place may not qualify for the same number of points or the same length of stay elsewhere, IF Marriott elects to assign different point values to different resorts.

So, for example, owners of those nice Plat. Manor Club weeks, used to getting great trades, may find they need to use the value from 2 weeks to get a single week in Hawaii or the Caribbean.

This isn't being overly dramatic- if you read Fletch's posts, at least under the system Marriott is considering there will be big winners and losers. For every owners who can get more, someone else is getting less. If a Hawaii week owner or a winter Caribbean week owner gets two weeks in Orlando for their single week, it means that the owners of those two weeks in Orlando will only be able to get half a week each; I realize that is a simplistic explanation, but supply has to equal demand when all is said and done.

There are two even bigger concerns, at least for me. Point systems historically have gotten devalued over time. What a great sales gimmick if Marriott were to tout the next development as being so great that it has the highest point value in the system...and the one after that could be even better, and so on. It creates the potential for large scale abuse and our purchases, which were made with the anticipation of being able to trade into future resorts if/when they were developed, may never be able to trade into newer resorts (at least like for like, wrt season/unit size/length of stay).

The other issue is MF's- both how will they be handles in a point system and will whatever system is developed- IF one ever is- create a Starwood type scenario where disgruntled owners are simply abandoning their ownership and all owners have to compensate with MF's out of control? I can see a lot of very disgruntled Bronze and Silver week owners, who bought primarily for exchanging, realizing that now to get a Marriott they'd have to pay 2 or 3 MF's just giving up (and I don't mean to be presenting a doom and gloom scenario- but, again, if you look at Starwood you can see this is a real possibility).

 

[rsackett]

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First - they will believe Marriott and reserve any week in season not understanding that Manor Club on 4th of July has very different trade power than Manor Club in Mid Sept.
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Who knows, in the Marriott system all Plat Manor Club weeks may have the same points (I suspect they will), and there for the same trading power. This would/could open up more of the high demand weeks for owner use.

Ray